9th stamp: first on cheap ATF paper.


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Arizona_Mike
November 4, 2013, 12:10 PM
My dealer is old school.

For future reference don't use fine tip sharpie on ATF paper. I hope ink bleedthrough won't be an issue for the ATF.

I'm amazed the the ATF tear off pad's paper quality is so cheep for a document so important to maintain.

Mike

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MudMarine
November 12, 2013, 05:45 PM
Computers are the wave of the future. No bleed through.

medalguy
November 17, 2013, 01:51 AM
Will you have to carry your computer with your "digital $200 stamp" around with you to prove the firearm is legal? Some paper documents will be forever paper.

sig228
November 17, 2013, 03:38 PM
Interesting blog entry here on the legality of the whole e-stamp thing:

http://blog.princelaw.com/category/firearms-law/atf/

Arizona_Mike
November 18, 2013, 02:42 PM
Computers are the wave of the future. No bleed through.
My last few Form 1s have been e-forms. A Form 4 is the dealer's application and my dealer is old-school.

Mike

Granby140
November 18, 2013, 09:39 PM
Everything govt does is cheaply made

wally
November 19, 2013, 09:15 AM
Will you have to carry your computer with your "digital $200 stamp" around with you to prove the firearm is legal? Some paper documents will be forever paper.

Shows how much of our Liberty we've already surrendered when the difference between legal and illegal is possession of a piece of paper from the government.

Telekinesis
November 19, 2013, 10:58 AM
Shows how much of our Liberty we've already surrendered when the difference between legal and illegal is possession of a piece of paper from the government.

I agree but I think you're a little late... that battle was lost almost 80 years ago.

As far as I know, when submitting an eForm the ATF still mails you a printed form upon approval, so that would be your official paperwork. Then all you have to do is make copies and store the original somewhere safe - just like you would do with a regular form 1 or 4.

MudMarine
November 22, 2013, 10:08 PM
It's an electronic stamp.

rjrivero
November 24, 2013, 11:30 PM
It's an electronic stamp. But the NFA does not have any accommodation for an "electronic stamp."

Aaron Baker
November 27, 2013, 06:41 PM
But the NFA does not have any accommodation for an "electronic stamp."

So this seems to be true... but so what?

I'm having a hard time understanding why we should be upset about this. If the ATF is content to send us approved forms in electronic format, then there's no way that they're going to be able to prosecute anyone for not having the actual, physical stamp. They're the ones that approved the form without providing it. They won't even want to prosecute people, so why would it happen?

And if the eForms are quicker, then is the electronic stamp a problem? Would you rather have a physical stamp and a 9 month wait or an e-stamp and a 3 month wait?

I do understand that they're not complying with the law, which is ironic, since they expect us to. But frankly, that inconsistency can only work in our favor down the line, I'd think.

Aaron

Swampman
December 1, 2013, 08:54 PM
Originally posted byGranby140
Everything govt does is cheaply made

Tell me about it, that's undoubtedly why guys who got stuck with cheapo USGI M-14 parts in their M1a's strive so hard to replace them with higher quality, commercial, genuine Springfield Armory parts.

rjrivero
December 6, 2013, 12:48 PM
So this seems to be true... but so what?

I'm having a hard time understanding why we should be upset about this. If the ATF is content to send us approved forms in electronic format, then there's no way that they're going to be able to prosecute anyone for not having the actual, physical stamp. They're the ones that approved the form without providing it. They won't even want to prosecute people, so why would it happen?

And if the eForms are quicker, then is the electronic stamp a problem? Would you rather have a physical stamp and a 9 month wait or an e-stamp and a 3 month wait?

I do understand that they're not complying with the law, which is ironic, since they expect us to. But frankly, that inconsistency can only work in our favor down the line, I'd think.

Aaron

The reason this should upset us is because if we don't make them play by their own rules, then they get to change their rules any time they feel like it.

While this interpretation of the rules "benefits" us, the next time they decide to change their mind may not. We should hold their feet to the fire and demand they explain why it takes 9-12 months to do a background check and approve transfers. But we should not accept the ATF making up their own rules as they go along. Similarly with this entire proposal to "Fingerprint a Trust or LLC" which is complete garbage. The President's pen does not make a legal entity a person.

The NFA is clearly written, and if they want to change it, they should have to re-address the law. By them re-addressing the law, then we could have an opportunity to have it changed in a way that would benefit us even more.

By being "grateful" that they reduce the wait time for us to exercise our 2nd Amendment Rights is really grasping at the brass ring. There is no reason they can't streamline this process within the rules they set forth at the onset.

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