deer hunting with a mac-10?


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jason41987
November 10, 2013, 11:50 PM
im just wondering if anyones done this, or thought of doing it.. maybe not the full auto 45 cal SMG mac-10.. i was thinking more along the lines of the semi automatic 16" carbine .460 rowland mac 10.. .460 rowland having muzzle energy similar to a .44 mag, then add a 16 inch barrel on that, a stock.. probably have to fab an extended floor plate to limit magazines to 5-rounds.. but in the end, would it be much different than using a 44 mag lever action carbine from a ballistics standpoint?..

how would you think if you were having a discussion with some people about hunting, you asked them what they used and you told them a mac 10.. youd probably not think very kindly of them

i have considered such a mac-10 carbine mostly because i really like the simplicity, versatility, and utilitarian aspect of the mac-10 design.. its one of the simplest out there, magwells can be made to take a variety of magazines depending on what its chambered for.. ive seen forearms, stocks, rails, just about anything you could imagine added to the design to take on different roles.. so, i have been toying with the idea of getting one of the 16" .460 rowland carbines ive seen

so, if you had one, would you hunt with it?.. keep in mind im in the north central united states so i hunt in thick forest where closer shots are a more likely possibility.. so sub 100 yards, and for those unaware of .460 rowland its essentially .308 brass chopped to 45acp length and loaded to pressures that would allow a 230 grain bullet to be thrown at 1350fps+ measured from a 5.5" 1911 converted to fire it.. so fired from a rifle barrel, probably well over 1,000ft/lbs of muzzle energy

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taliv
November 10, 2013, 11:54 PM
having owned the full auto mac10, i'd certainly think less of someone who chose that for deer hunting. it was by far the least accurate and least controllable gun i have ever owned. it was fun conversation piece at the range, but no way would i consider shooting animals with it

jason41987
November 11, 2013, 12:32 AM
taliv.. i mentioned the mac-10 in question wasnt that mac-10 though.. but imagine one thats semi automatic with a decent quality 16 inch barrel and a stock

tarosean
November 11, 2013, 12:39 AM
Since its technically a pistol Im guessing you would need to find out your states laws regarding pistol hunting.

jim in Anchorage
November 11, 2013, 12:43 AM
I would be incredibly embarrassed to be seen hunting with that gun.

hovercat
November 11, 2013, 12:52 AM
Legal is not always wise or ethical. Litmus test: Would you be proud to go to your mother and tell her what you are thinking of doing??

Dr.Rob
November 11, 2013, 12:59 AM
No way, even with considerable testing for accuracy would I take that out on public land to hunt with.

Your game laws might be far different than mine, but the "look" of that would have a game warden harassing you. I run into game wardens with alarming regularity while hunting. Most aren't very gun-savvy. He or she very likely doesn't know its NOT a handgun, or an NFA item or likely what 460 Rowland is. That's just asking to be hassled. I realize "black rifles" are getting more common out in the woods, but the looks of that (even with a staked/blocked or welded magazine) will garner a lot of unwanted attention: if not from the Warden, than from other hunters who might 'sic the warden on you'.

Private land? I'd make darn sure I could keep 5 shots on a playing card at 50 yards and not shoot it much farther. Those Macs have a pretty lousy trigger, not one that lends itself to spectacular accuracy. For the MSRP of one of those you could buy a 44mag rifle or carbine, or even a budget AR if .223 is legal for deer in your area.

Also: MPA discontinued the 460 Rowland.

jason41987
November 11, 2013, 01:29 AM
not that id go tacticool like this one has.. but i dont think id mistaken it for a handgun

http://i1.ifrm.com/3696/143/upload/p1040790.jpg

i wouldnt mistaken this one for a pistol either

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/02/09/1029653_02_cobra_mac_10_open_bolt_9mm_32__640.jpg

now imagine one of those with the muzzle energy of a 44 magnum

jeepnik
November 11, 2013, 02:06 AM
Dad used to tell a story of deer hunting in Germany after WWII. They would use Garands. The FMJ rounds would zip right thru unless you hit bone. One GI got so frustrated he opened up with an M-3. It did kill the deer, but ruined a lot of meat.

So yea, you could kill a deer with a .45 acp. It just might take a few rounds and reduce your meat harvest.

tarosean
November 11, 2013, 02:15 AM
not that id go tacticool like this one has.. but i dont think id mistaken it for a handgun
i wouldnt mistaken this one for a pistol either


Both of those would be considered NFA items... Which would further complicate the laws..

hso
November 11, 2013, 08:32 AM
I'd have to see how it was set up and what sighting it had before I'd have any impression other than negative.

W.E.G.
November 11, 2013, 08:44 AM
You could acquire a better tool for less money.

So the MAC-10 deer hunt serves no purpose other than as a stunt.

What is the purpose of this stunt?

Speedo66
November 11, 2013, 09:05 AM
How about a semi auto M-60 or a semi auto M-2? Or maybe a mortar to take a herd out all at once?

Maybe we should keep tactical stuff at the mall where it belongs. :neener:

Happy Veteran's Day to any real warriors.

25cschaefer
November 11, 2013, 09:05 AM
The OP is referring to the Masterpiece Arms (MPA) Defender carbine. It is not an open bolt, crudely made "MAC," but a surprisingly nice if not bulky semi auto. They are reliable and more than accurate enough for handgun ammo hunting range. Many people who own them get groups less than 3/4" at 25 yards; Because it is basically a 44 mag, you wouldn't hunt past 125yds so extreme accuracy isn't necessary.

The MSRP for the Defender Carbine is $795. If it were chambered in 460 Rowland, the maker says, you can still shoot 45ACP through it making it a fun and cheap plinker. It is also very adaptable with piccatinny rails and such.

Depending on your tastes the Defender and a 44 mag levergun are neck and neck as far as one shot power, accuracy, and price. The levergun has it as far as "not embarrassing" but as far as fun, fire power, and adaptability the defender wins.

If you can stand Johnny Rowland, here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdxvoH1LLXc

Walkalong
November 11, 2013, 09:07 AM
It is not a good weapon for deer hunting and will only draw unwanted negative attention.

There are suitable carbines and suitable revolvers out there that would fit any need without looking like Rambo out running and gunning.

jason41987
November 11, 2013, 12:20 PM
25cschaefer knows what im talking about.. similar accuracy, power, and range to a 44 mag leveraction... as for sighting options, if the mac-10 used had a side charging handle, which a lot do, then it would be no problem at all to put a rail on top for a scope mount (not that it would be needed) or even a red dot sight which would make more sense for something with a max range of about 100 yards

jason41987
November 11, 2013, 12:22 PM
also.. did masterpiece arms seriously make a 5.56mm mac-10 with an ar-15ish lower receiver?.. if so.. more cool if it was a reciprocating right side charger though, but still cool (keep in mind i mostly shoot bolt actions, AKs, and the M1 family rifles.. fixed right side chargers are what im used to)

Patocazador
November 11, 2013, 02:29 PM
A .308 cut to .45 auto length would be much less powerful than a .44 Auto-Mag which is the same thing cut to .44 Mag. length and reamed to accept the .44 bullet.
It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

I had a selective-fire Mac-10 that used .45 auto ammo. It was a fun toy but not much else. It was cheaply made of stampings and inaccurate at more than 10 yards.

cat_IT_guy
November 11, 2013, 06:41 PM
Im going to stand in the minority here, but, assuming its legal, you already have it, and you are confident (from actual shooting) of your ability to make an ethical shot, I say go for it. Now would it be my first choice for hunting? Nah, but it sounds like it isnt yours, either - just a challenge and/or something different to hunt with. Would I be surprised to hear of it used in a hunting application? Yea, a little, but given the explanations on here, sounds sufficiently powerful (I dont think many/any would argue that .44mag is not sufficient for deer), I certainly dont have a problem with it.

25cschaefer
November 11, 2013, 06:47 PM
The 460 Rowland offers about 20% higher velocities than the 45 acp with the same bullets.

The MPA pistols and carbines are nothing like the old MACs, they are milled and skillfully crafted. If you believe hunting deer with a leveraction carbine in 44 mag is humane, there is no reason to believe it would not be with an MPA defender in 460 Rowland.

Swampman
November 11, 2013, 07:12 PM
No offense intended, but this thread kinda seems almost like a psychology 101 experiment.

I'd almost bet that if you'd titled the thread something like "Deer hunting with a .460 Rowland Carbine" you would have had a lot more positive responses.

I've gotta admit, my first thought on seeing the thread title was to wonder whether the poster was gonna be a real gang banger, or just a wannabe. It was only after I'd read a couple of sentences that I figured out you weren't some kind of moron intent on "machine gunning" herds of deer.

My initial thoughts and the written responses I've seen so far indicate that it's not only the "anti's" that can be biased against certain classes of inanimate objects/guns.
In fact, some of the posts I've read sound almost exactly like what I was told in the late 70's and early 80's when I took an AR-15 or M1a out deer or hog hunting.

I mean seriously, what kind of sick wannabe Rambo would want to hunt deer with an AR-15!?

As far as worrying about ignorant or uninformed Game Wardens, that's an education issue.
In Texas, it's required to present your weapon and ammo for inspection so that a Warden can ensure it's legal, meaning not full auto, rimfire for big game or too many rounds/lead shot for waterfowl.
It's always best if courtesy and restraint is shown by both parties during a contact, but that certainly doesn't mean that you as a hunter are required to conform to the Game Warden's personal sense of aesthetics in weapon design or appearance, you just have to obey the law.

If the weapon is legal to hunt with in your area and has the needed power and accuracy to make clean, ethical kills, I say go for it.

Tirod
November 14, 2013, 11:06 AM
I started out hunting in the 1970s with a HK91 and a first generation Aimpoint, so, what somebody else thinks about what a gun looks like means nothing to me. I don't let others decide what I can use as a tool. That mentality is exactly what some want to use against our rights.

.45 is used by every 1911 handgunner out there during the season, what difference does it make what barrel and action release it? In strict terms of ballistics, none. It's the BATF who make distinctions about whether its' a rifle or pistol, bear in mind the consequences and configure it accordingly. But to sit back and listen to people say "Oh no you shouldn't do that it looks bad" isn't something I care to hear. I don't intend to impress two guys in a parking lot before dark. I intend to go shoot a deer.

I'm using a kitchen table assembled AR15 in 6.8 this year with a reflex sight. Do I need the public's permission on what gun to take onto public land? Tradition is nice, there's a 40% chance of rain. I'd rather take something like an AR than a '64 Win 94. It has plenty of rust and ruin on it already. Blued carbon steel guns with softwood birch stocks aren't my choice in rough and tumble conditions.

Since MO is also an "any centerfire weapon" state, the SIG P938 Extreme is going, too. I suppose that will offend the .44 Mag crowd.

You either support the legal use of firearms or you don't - what they look like is cosmetics, and claiming otherwise politics.

Jim Zumbo and Dick Metcalf don't decide for me how I exercise my rights. As long as I fire a legal caliber bullet in accordance to the regulations and use responsible ethics, it's nobody's business beyond that. It's a bullet launcher, the game doesn't care either.

OP: check your regulations and how it has to be built, some features are illegal to have in certain combinations. It has to be all rifle or all pistol, and it's use fall under your hunting regulations. Beyond that, it's whatever you like. It would be a fun time and you should certainly recognize the advantages and limitations, but it's entirely up to you.

Post up pics when you get it. :evil:

taliv
November 14, 2013, 11:50 AM
1970s with a HK91 and a first generation Aimpoint

i don't care if you hunt with a bazooka as long as you can hit your target. nothing wrong with using an HK91 and an aimpoint. sounds like a decent setup to me.

.45 is used by every 1911 handgunner out there during the season, what difference does it make what barrel and action release it?

it's not a question of ballistics. you can hit a coke can at 25 yards every time with most 1911s. if you can hit a coke can at 10 yards even half the time with a mac10, you should consider yourself lucky. maybe if the OP has some aftermarket sights and stock it could be a lot better. in factory config, forget it.

brainwake
November 14, 2013, 11:57 AM
I still chuckle every time I read the subject of this thread. I keep envisioning a cartoon of Rambo mowing down a herd of deer.

Fremmer
November 14, 2013, 12:34 PM
You could use that if you had to, but a rifle or revolver with a scope will work a lot better. Jmho.

ldlfh7
November 14, 2013, 02:08 PM
I still chuckle every time I read the subject of this thread.

Agreed!! I keep imagining some thugs with baggy pants, bandanas, and gold chains trudging through the woods with their mac 10's lol

Sam Cade
November 15, 2013, 10:59 AM
One of my associates has hunted with a 6" Masterpiece sidecocker 9mm with a RMR on the top rail the last couple years.

Similar to this:
https://masterpiecearms.com/prodimages/MPA30SST%20muzzle%20brake.jpg

I've shot it and it is about as accurate as a service pistol. Trigger was about 5lbs I reckon.

Overall, it seems to be a pretty reasonable choice for a hunting pistol if 9mm is adequate for your purposes.



No experience with the MPA .45 pistols or corbines.

Speedo66
November 15, 2013, 11:37 AM
Agreed!! I keep imagining some thugs with baggy pants, bandanas, and gold chains trudging through the woods with their mac 10's lol
Or the similar crowd who wear camo to a gun show or range.

I admit to certain prejudices when I hear of hunting with a tactical weapon. But then, I have problems with so many "operators" in general.

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