Does a device to catch venting gas = a silencer?


PDA






JustinJ
November 15, 2013, 05:12 PM
Quite a few piston driven semi-autos vent excess gas from the op rod tube. Would a device that captures such constitute a silencer? What if used in conjunction with a traditional muzzle mounted silencer? My Steyr AUG, for example, does not suppress terribly well because of the report from excess gas released from the gas port after the op rod is driven back. Would a device to muffle this constitute a silencer? The AK comes to mind as well as a popular gun which vents quite a bit of excess gas.

If you enjoyed reading about "Does a device to catch venting gas = a silencer?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MErl
November 15, 2013, 07:11 PM
I suppose it technically depends on what the report of a firearm is defined as. (legal definition of silencer) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921)

Probably not by the spirit of the law but no idea as far as the letter of the law.

rcmodel
November 15, 2013, 08:52 PM
Here is the law:

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(24)

The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

It doesn't say anything about 'attached to the muzzle, or the barrel.

It says it is any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm.

I guess that would include reducing the gas port blast too, if it reduced the sound level measurably.


The thing you have to understand though, is this.

By the time the residual gas-piston pressure is bled off, the bullet and muzzle blast is long gone down range.
By then, bore pressure is near atmospheric, and if it wasn't, the empty case would still be stuck tightly in the chamber from the high pressure, and could not be extracted.

The puff of smoke or powder gas emitting from the gas piston bleed-off is in no way high enough pressure to create a super-sonic shock wave or loud blast that contributes much if anything to what had already happened when the bullet left the muzzle.

rc

Jim K
November 15, 2013, 09:17 PM
Many suppressed sub guns had covers, like blankets, over the receivers to quiet bolt slap which, on a gun like the M3, is pretty noisy. So I wonder if one had a gun like that with a registered silencer, could the cover be construed as another "silencer" since it reduces the sound, or would the bolt slap not be considered a "report", so its sound reduction would not come under the law?

Jim

Midwest
November 16, 2013, 09:40 AM
The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm,

Why would they state 'portable firearm? Why didn't they just state 'firearm'? I know this is a long shot (pun intended).

But what if the firearm was non portable, like if it was mounted on a tripod or mounted on a truck?

Jim Watson
November 16, 2013, 09:48 PM
I don't know about the portability of the firearm, but the black helicopters seem not to be descending on the box and tire mufflers mounted in front of shooting benches and not attached to the guns.

Mike1234567
November 17, 2013, 11:48 AM
So... if I hand-hold an automotive muffler in front of my firearm while I shoot it... that's okay. :D

Zeeemu
November 17, 2013, 03:23 PM
"So... if I hand-hold an automotive muffler in front of my firearm while I shoot it... that's okay."

Funny. You guys dance around with interpretations of this and that trying to beat a stacked deck but in the end it'll always be the Feds and their lawyers who will decide if it's worth their while to prosecute - or not.

The game is rigged in their favor. They interpret their rules to achieve whatever goals they wish with almost unlimited time and resources on their side, a most effective process of control through intimidation, prosecution, fines and prison time.

Hunter125
November 17, 2013, 03:30 PM
Yeah, somehow I don't think the ATF will get a sudden change of heart when you say, "But the law doesn't say you can't hold it in front of the gun"

Mike1234567
November 17, 2013, 03:34 PM
"So... if I hand-hold an automotive muffler in front of my firearm while I shoot it... that's okay."

Funny. You guys dance around with interpretations of this and that trying to beat a stacked deck but in the end it'll always be the Feds and their lawyers who will decide if it's worth their while to prosecute - or not.

The game is rigged in their favor. They interpret their rules to achieve whatever goals they wish with almost unlimited time and resources on their side, a most effective process of control through intimidation, prosecution, fines and prison time.
Did you intentionally leave off my s-eating grin? :D

Zeeemu
November 17, 2013, 06:07 PM
No, not intentional. I got it. When I copied to quote you the grin didn't get picked up and I failed to notice. I'm sure most of us know how this game is played. ;)

If you enjoyed reading about "Does a device to catch venting gas = a silencer?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!