Accubond


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bleedinblu05
November 18, 2013, 10:33 AM
Hi guys,
I've been reading this forum for a while and decided to post finally as I had a weird occurrence and could use some insight. Shot a buck Friday afternoon at 275 yards with my .308. I don't reload, so I've been shooting 165 Accubond Nosler Custom Ammo. I was more than happy with the result of the shot. The buck walked around a bit, never bucked so I shot again, and he continued walking around, then laid down within 10 yards of where I shot him.
Here en-lies my quandary. They were lung shots, I was certain after gutting him, but there was no exit hole and I did not find the bullets. I'm not complaining, because the bullet did what it was supposed to do (kill the deer), but it got me thinking. Is the 165 grain accubond to much bullet to expand properly at those distances at .308 velocities (roughly 2850 at the muzzle according to nossler). Would I be better off shooting the 150 grain? Or mabye would I be better of with ballistic tips or sst's (never been a fan because of the "blow up" reputation that they have but reading on here recently I've starting second guessing if that is really the case). Or was this just an instance that the accubond didn't exit but ultimately got the job done anyway. For what its worth if it helps my gun is a Winchester Model 70 featherweight, free floated, glass bedded witha 1:12 twist.
Thanks for any insight and sorry about the long post.

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Arkansas Paul
November 18, 2013, 11:01 AM
I'm anxious to hear the answer to this too bleedinblu. My brother shot a deer this year with one in a 7-Rem Mag. It entered just behind the shoulder, traveled nearly the entire length of its body and came to rest just under the hide of the off side ham. It retained most of its weight and mushroomed perfectly.

However, that was traveling at approximately 3,200 fps. Yours would be traveling at probably 400+ fps slower, so maybe it wasn't enough to open up.

I would think it would have though. What was the wound channel like? Were they small or did they make a mess you would expect from a bullet expanding?

gspn
November 18, 2013, 11:41 AM
Nosler states that the optimal performance velocity range for the accubond line is 1,800 fps on the low end, with no top end speed limitation.

http://www.nosler.com/accubond/

I haven't looked it up but I can't imagine a .308 has dropped below 1,800 fps at 275 yards...I'd guess that bullet is still cruising well over 2,300 fps at that range.

As far as no exit wound...bullets don't always go straight. Once that thing starts to mushroom the bullet can go all kinds of directions. I've had bullets enter on a lungshot and then turn straight UP and break the spine. I've had them hit the far side and ride the skin one way or another.

If you want to ensure a pass through every time then you should buy a bullet designed for deep penetration.

You shot a deer and it piled up 10 yards from where it initially encountered the bullet. Sounds like success...unless you absolutely need an exit wound I'd keep what you've got.

Arkansas Paul
November 18, 2013, 11:44 AM
I haven't looked it up but I can't imagine a .308 has dropped below 1,800 fps at 275 yards...I'd guess that bullet is still cruising well over 2,300 fps at that range.

Yeah I agree. Hell, a .30-30 is prolly still clicking along at close to that.

bleedinblu05
November 18, 2013, 12:20 PM
Your right gspn. At 275, according to Nosler, that bullet is still traveling at roughly 2300 fps which should be enough for it to mushroom properly. And arkansas paul, the would channels were pretty small, the only real sign of the deer being shot were the lungs.

Arkansas Paul
November 18, 2013, 12:34 PM
the would channels were pretty small, the only real sign of the deer being shot were the lungs.

That definitely sounds like they didn't open up. Hmm. Maybe just a freak bullet failure. I'm sure it happens, but two in a row? I'm stumped.

Patocazador
November 18, 2013, 02:01 PM
Switch to Nosler Partitions. They always work well.
I tried all sorts when I started hunted. I haven't used anything but the Partitions in decades.
Overkill?? Maybe, but can you kill something too dead? ;)

jmr40
November 18, 2013, 02:46 PM
It is more bullet than you need, but it should have worked. (actually as you noted it did work) The Accubond is essentially a Partition, with the aerodynamics of the Ballistic tip, so I doubt if using a Partition would have mattered. At that range the Accubond was probably a better choice.

If deer are the only game hunted something that expands more rapidly would probably put them down more quickly. Not necessariy any deader. The Accubonds, Partitions, and most other premiums are designed for larger game. If I wanted to hunt bear, deer, elk etc. with the same bullet the Accubond would be near the top of my list.

bleedinblu05
November 19, 2013, 02:59 PM
Thanks for ya'lls help fellas. I don't really know what I'm gonna do, might stick with the 165's or go to a 150 gr. At least I have a whole year to play around with it!

DM~
November 19, 2013, 09:40 PM
The Accubond is essentially a Partition, with the aerodynamics of the Ballistic tip, so I doubt if using a Partition would have mattered. At that range the Accubond was probably a better choice.


HUH??? Accubonds have NO partition, it doesn't have the soft nose that blows off, even at very low velocities, leaving that tough partition to give GREAT penetration!

Partitions will almost always out penetrate Accubonds, and that partition is much tougher than lead. "That" along with the smaller frontal diameter, is the reason they penetrate so well.... AND that's why i like them better than Accubonds.

DM

WTBguns10kOK
November 19, 2013, 11:16 PM
When will the Accubomb go off? Will the Accubomb even go off? No one knows...

T.R.
November 28, 2013, 07:44 AM
My .308 rifle shoots plain old Winchester Power Point ammo exceptionally well. The 150 grain bullet produces a ghastly wound every time regardless of distance.

TR

Davek1977
November 29, 2013, 01:23 AM
I've used 160 gr Accubonds in 7mm to take several deer. Performance is always the same...Bang, flop, DRT.

witchhunter
November 29, 2013, 12:50 PM
I see on the TV shows where the deer run off and they trail em for a bit. I shoot Nosler Partitions only and haven't had this happen since I switched back in the 70's. Whump! There they lay.

gspn
November 29, 2013, 07:59 PM
I've shot deer with all kinds of bullets. I've shot them in the lungs and had them drop on the spot. I've blown the hearts out of them and had them run top speed for 100 yards before piling up...in my experience there is no magic bullet. There is no bullet that will always make a deer drop in it's tracks...that's nonsense.

The only thing I've seen that will make a deer drop in it's tracks every time is to break it's spinal cord. Neck shots tend to drop deer immediately and permanently for this reason.

I've shot over 100 deer with many types of bullets...Interlock, Ballistic Tip, AccuBonds, Partitions, Core-Lokt, Silver Tips, Bronze Points, LeverRevolution, 450 grain lead slugs, you name it...and I've not found that any one of these bullets kills them "deader" than another.

Many of these bullets perform differently...some retain weight and push through and out the other side like a freight train (even on a large heavy buck). Others fragment quickly turning the lungs to jelly and never penetrate out the other side (even on a small bodied doe). I've had lung shots send a mushroomed bullet straight up and into the spine...breaking the deers back and dropping it on the spot.

In addition to the wounds we create...animals all have a different degree of physical and mental toughness. The same double lung shot that might drop one deer on the spot, might send another running 100 yards. They all react differently.

Dropping a deer DRT to some extent has much to do with animal toughness and the random path a bullet takes after penetration than it does with bullet type. In certain situations shot placement will also have a large effect...anyone taking head or neck shots is going to see a lot more DRT action than those who use a double lung shot. I don't routinely use neck shots but will in some situations...and each time those shots have resulted in the deer dropping like a bag of hammers. I've never taken a head shot, never will, but for the sake of the example I imagine that a well placed shot to the head would result in the same outcome.

fragout
November 29, 2013, 08:16 PM
My favorite deer huntin stick chambered in 308 pushes a Federal 165gr Nosler accubond at 2680 fps at the muzzle producing 2631 ft/lbs of energy.

At 300 yards, the bullet is traveling at 2133fps with 1667 ft/lbs of energy.

Note: The load is not the exact load your refferring to, and my rifle, E.C's, elevation above sea level, etc...etc..... will most likely vary from yours, but the load your talking about should be well above 1800fps at 275yards.

It is a mystery, as I almost always end up with an exit wound via lung shots using several different factory loads, but I havent ever used the Accubond while deer hunting.

Were both shots broadside shots?

41 Mag
November 30, 2013, 07:44 AM
Glad you ended up with your deer. Good that you did the follow up shot as well, even if not needed. Personally I would much rather have to trim off a little here and there than to have to track something. Pop always said, "shoot till they are on the ground". It pays off in the long run.

As for your issue with the AB, well the only ones I have shot have been the 110s from a 25-06. On a couple of deer they preformed as good as one could ever want or expect, simply bang flop. One a couple more they did similar to what you referred to. None of these deer were over 150yds, and all shots were through lungs and shoulder. With a starting velocity of over 3100fps.

With what we have seen, we went back to the 115gr Partition simply for that fact. In close to 25yrs of using it, I never had much difference in the results, small hole going in, massive destruction within 2" of penetration, and then a quarter or so sized exit 98% of the time. Those shots ranged form 10yds to well past 300 on deer and all sorts of other critters.

To be honest I would personally use the 150's on deer, but that is simply my own thinking. I have used mostly the plain ol 150gr Rem CL, or what ever Federal loads into their plain jane loads. Either of these has been more than sufficient for complete pass throughs on both deer and hogs out of my little 16.5" barrel out further than I probably should have been shooting them. But they still did the job equally as well.

natman
November 30, 2013, 11:09 AM
Hi guys,
I've been reading this forum for a while and decided to post finally as I had a weird occurrence and could use some insight. Shot a buck Friday afternoon at 275 yards with my .308. I don't reload, so I've been shooting 165 Accubond Nosler Custom Ammo. I was more than happy with the result of the shot. The buck walked around a bit, never bucked so I shot again, and he continued walking around, then laid down within 10 yards of where I shot him.
Here en-lies my quandary. They were lung shots, I was certain after gutting him, but there was no exit hole and I did not find the bullets. I'm not complaining, because the bullet did what it was supposed to do (kill the deer), but it got me thinking. Is the 165 grain accubond to much bullet to expand properly at those distances at .308 velocities (roughly 2850 at the muzzle according to nossler). Would I be better off shooting the 150 grain? Or mabye would I be better of with ballistic tips or sst's (never been a fan because of the "blow up" reputation that they have but reading on here recently I've starting second guessing if that is really the case). Or was this just an instance that the accubond didn't exit but ultimately got the job done anyway. For what its worth if it helps my gun is a Winchester Model 70 featherweight, free floated, glass bedded witha 1:12 twist.
Thanks for any insight and sorry about the long post.

I find this a bit confusing. It sounds like:

The bullet didn't exit.
You couldn't find the bullet.
You're worried that the bullet didn't expand.

These are contradictory. If it didn't expand it surely would have exited on a lung shot. I also find it unlikely that an Accubond would disintegrate to the point of disappearance on a 275 yard lung shot from a 308.

:confused:

elktrout
December 8, 2013, 03:10 AM
gspn is correct. You never know what will happen, even with two shots exactly alike on the same kind of animal. My son shot a big bodied bull this year at about 100 yards with a 180 accubond from his 300 win mag. It walked about 20 feet and collapsed from a broadside lung shot in and out of the ribcage. Damage was substantial. On the same day, he also shot a regular sized cow with the same load, same gun, same bullet placement, same through and through penetration, and same damage. BUT, the range was only 40 yards, and SHE RAN 100 YARDS UPHILL BEFORE COLLAPSING. Go figure. There is no magical bullet.

eastbank
December 8, 2013, 06:07 AM
most of the many deer i have shot in 61 years of hunting, i have tried to double lung them(my grandfather told me to shoot them there if i could) and he even showed me at a early age where the heart,lungs and liver were by cutting up a large doe i shot as a kid. i have been using the nosler ballistic tip bullets since they came out for deer and it works very well, however you can,t shoot them in the arse if you want steaks. in my 3006,s i run them at 2750-2800 (165gr). eastbank.

eastbank
December 8, 2013, 06:18 AM
these deer each ran about 20yds after being hit and were in sight the whole time and didn,t need a second shot. eastbank.

Vol46
December 8, 2013, 10:31 AM
I have only shot 1 with the . 308 165 NAB - same result as yours, DRT but an unimpressive wound. Over the years, I have killed numerous deer (probably close to 100) with .308 150 grain factory Winchester Power Points and garden variety 150 Hornady BTSP handloads . Very few ran further than 15 or 20 yards, always a good exit hole & lots of bleeding.

Buzsaw
December 13, 2013, 11:54 PM
I have killed 2 elk with the 165 acubond, performed well on both, through and through both sides, sometimes through ribs, distances were about 250 yards and 100 yards. One went about 50 feet, the other fell in its tracks.

tahunua001
December 14, 2013, 12:09 AM
my own experience has been questionable.
my brother loves accubonds in his 7mm rem mag.
my brother in law tried them in 25-06 and they vaporize on contact.
I tried them in a 6.5x50mm. I hit a bear and the bullet split in half. lucky for me one half hit the liver and the other hit the heart. however considering that this bullet was traveling about 150FPS over their recommended minimum, this is terrible.

I will never buy another box of accubonds. I get much better performance from speer deep curls.

NCdrummer
December 24, 2013, 10:38 AM
In my experience either will produce a quick and humane kill. If you are shooting longer distances the higher ballistic coefficient of the 165 will pay you a dividend. Even though the 150 starts out faster, the 165 retains velocity better and therefore gets to the target in less time, which equals flatter shooting at distance. Inside 250 yards it probably does not matter. Another note: Accubond bullets are designed to mushroom at surprisingly low velocities. If you have any doubt (and no marksman should doubt his rig) and can stand the accuracy trade-off, try a Partition. They perform as advertised. I have shot numerous deer with 150s and 165s in the .308. Haven't lost one yet. Good Hunting!

gspn
December 24, 2013, 10:42 PM
Seeing this thread reminded me that last evening I shot a 140 lb whitetail deer with a Nosler 140 grain Accubond that I hand loaded on top of 71 grains of H1000. It was shot at a distance of 80 yards with a Rem 7 mm Mag. I took a double lung shot, hit right behind the shoulder and that bullet went in one side and sailed out the other.

The deer did me the favor of dropping on the spot. I sight in about 3 inches high at 100 yards and with a dead center hold I did some damage to the spinal cord on the way through…he fell like a bag of hammers. I like the bullet.

Rem700CDLSF3006
December 28, 2013, 06:13 PM
Shot a deer this morning with a 30-06 165 grain Accubond awesome performance dropped on spot and never moved.After dressing kinda glad I picked it over the ballistic tip

d2wing
January 7, 2014, 12:32 PM
I just read a study posted on the "what round has killed the most deer". According to that, the best shot placement is the shoulder for sure kills and immediate drop. The caliber doesn't matter, but soft, rapid expansion bullets worked much better than hard, controlled expansion bullets or bullet that are heavy for the caliber. This bears out what my experience has been. I have seen quality bullets from a 7 MM go right through without much expansion.
I have also seen .223 55 gr bullets drop a deer faster and do more tissue damage, at closer range.
According to that study the biggest factors were shot placement, bullet construction, and distance. Beyond 150 yards good hits dropped dramatically.
No difference in caliber, custom guns or bullets vs factory guns and bullets. Hope this helps.

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