Shot a Mosin for the first time


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1KPerDay
November 19, 2013, 12:51 PM
Now I want one, dangit :banghead:

I really don't need to add another caliber. Plus they've posted every scrap of land within an hour's drive so I can't shoot rifles at proper distance anyway.


Still want one.:banghead:

Shot a 1903 Springfield and an 8mm Mauser with full-power S&B 8x57JS loads also... they all felt about the same. Which is to say, AWESOME. :cool:

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TheHappyGunner
November 19, 2013, 01:09 PM
It seems to be a popular topic nowadays to say "get a Mosin while you still can", and I think it's appropriate here. I'm not a proponent of Mosin Nagants per se, but they are going up in price and are still relatively cheap and plentiful. I'm actually surprised that a member who has over 9,000 posts on this website JUST shot a Mosin Nagant for the first time :D for a lot of the guys I know, that was one of the first full powered rifles we ever owned and/or shot. But I guess we all have to start somewhere :)

I'm a Springfield guy myself, but have an appreciation for all things military surplus. I'd say go out an get a Mosin. No regrets.

thralldad
November 19, 2013, 01:10 PM
Get a T53 carbine while you can!

Ranger Roberts
November 19, 2013, 01:15 PM
*****WARNING*****

Mosin Nagants multiply like rabbits!! One shows up in your safe and you think "oh, that is a great addition to my collection". You open that safe door three weeks later and they are everywhere!

1KPerDay
November 19, 2013, 01:46 PM
I'm actually surprised that a member who has over 9,000 posts on this website JUST shot a Mosin Nagant for the first time :D
I haven't been much of an afficionado of Rooski Rifles in the past, and didn't really know anyone who was... I mostly shoot US .30 caliber stuff. But it would be foolish to equate forum post count with knowledge, or experience, or relevance to anything. :D

However I have bought an AK-74 (type) and an AK-47 (type) within the past 2 years, and have certainly appreciated the history and aesthetics of the Mosin for many years. I actually want an M39 most; something about the pistol grip stock is pleasing to my eye.

I sure don't want to worry about feeding it, though. Anyone make a Mosin in 7.62x39? LOL
Though that would kinda defeat the purpose...

OpticsPlanet
November 19, 2013, 01:48 PM
I have the M44.

Kicks pretty hard, shoots a fireball out of the barrel at night, and is one of the louder rifles.

Best $120 I ever spent.

Tim G.

bainter1212
November 19, 2013, 01:52 PM
Get one now. You will never regret it.

TheHappyGunner
November 19, 2013, 03:09 PM
Yes, actually, there were early experimental 7.62x39 Mosin Nagants produced soon after the cartridge was first introduced. To my knowledge, though, these rifles never made it into full production and the remaining existing ones are prototypes.

courtgreene
November 19, 2013, 03:36 PM
Don't worry about finding ammo because it's one of the few cheap centerfire cartridges still available. There is LESS surplus for it, but there is still plenty. The problem, though, is that for many including myself, surplus isn't great. I don't like dealing with corrosion and I know it's not hard to avoid, but I am forgetful. So, I've never shot surplus out of them. However, because the surplus rounds exist, they drive down the price. PPU is really affordable, and more importantly it's reload-able. I think the 7.62x54r is a very UNDER RATED cartridge when it comes to reloading. With that long barrel (91/30) and decent case capacity, it can do some really great things. Now that companies are producing decent .311" bullets (if you have to search for bullets by chambering, pretend you're loading for a lee enfield), you can really get a lot out of those rifles and that cartridge.

j1
November 19, 2013, 03:40 PM
That is the russian M 1. Probably killed more germans than all other rifles combined. Get it. Good luck with it so I know that you will enjoy it. :)

SC Shooter
November 19, 2013, 04:18 PM
The first time I shot my M44, I looked around behind me for my shoulder. Now that I am used to it, I enjoy shooting it now and then.

Orion8472
November 19, 2013, 04:48 PM
I got a Limbsaver for my M44 and have no problem with the kick now. But yeah, some of the best money I've sent on a rifle. SO much fun at not a huge amount of money spent.

content
November 19, 2013, 05:09 PM
My 53 Hungarian is very accurate with Priv.P. and has great looking wood.
I added the recoil pad for length and saving my shoulder.

The Finn. I purchased has a longer stock and a much smoother action.
Groups are slightly larger then the Hungarian.

Hope you find what works for you.

Gunnerboy
November 19, 2013, 07:24 PM
*****WARNING*****

Mosin Nagants multiply like rabbits!! One shows up in your safe and you think "oh, that is a great addition to my collection". You open that safe door three weeks later and they are everywhere! umm yeah.... they follow you home like a lost puppy

herrwalther
November 19, 2013, 08:33 PM
I bought a Mosin a few weeks. I have yet to fire it and STILL want another one. That way I can sporterize one and keep the other vintage. I think I have a problem and it somehow involves gun powder.

ball3006
November 19, 2013, 09:29 PM
I have 29 of them. I would have more but I am now retired on fixed income and the wife told me NO MORE......chris3

Forgot to mention the long M91 rifles are my favorite. But, the bayonet on a M44 makes a dandy rifle holder while you gut your deer.....chris3

ColtPythonElite
November 19, 2013, 09:35 PM
I bought one 20+ years ago and don't want another. I guess I have 5k rounds and haven't shot 100 in the past decade.

zenshootist
November 19, 2013, 09:39 PM
I bought the soviet corrosive ammo because I liked the 'tuna can' packaging ... just don't tell one of your kids to clean it or you'll end up with pitting on the bolt carrier like I did /P

fpgt72
November 20, 2013, 07:17 AM
They are interesting rifles and just loaded with history.....I think the most vast history of any military rifle. Sadly the days of sub $100 are long behind us, but there are still quality rifles out there, and some have real value to them...with some models selling for easy over $1000.

There is no cheaper way to get into military rifles, no cheaper center fire rifle to shoot. You can even get American made versions.

Soviet weapons are in general pretty robust bits of kit. If you are looking for a good shooter find one that has the best bore and go from there....they are fun to shoot.

One thing to remember most of the surplus stuff does have a steel core, meaning that some ranges will not allow its use....they are darn near AP rounds.

Voodoochile
November 20, 2013, 07:59 AM
Me & now my buddy really like our M44's.
Not so sure what y'all talking about on the kick or recoil of the M44, to me it ain't that bad & mine seems to like the 174gr. Brown Bear & 180gr. Reloads in accuracy but then we only have taken mine out to 200 yards, Now granted it isn't a tack driver with maybe 2-3" groups at 100 yards "benched" but is better than what she liked with the Hungarian 147gr. Surplus.

Palehorseman
November 20, 2013, 10:47 AM
True, I have a 1968 no name Finn M39 that was built up using a NEW (New England Westinghouse) receiver.

Palehorseman
November 20, 2013, 10:53 AM
I have 880 rds. of 1946 7.62x54 which has lead cores and thin jackets. On gal milk jugs of water, that bullet opens up almost like a hollow point. Odd, but the bullets mike out at .3085" and the hollow lead base is formed almost like a Minnie ball.

verb0s
November 20, 2013, 12:40 PM
Mosins are awesome, they're cheap, accurate and powerful. I bought a 91/30 in 2007 and shot it to death (it's got almost no rifling left) now i also have a m44, m91 and ex-dragoon.

I think the one problem with them is that those surplus rounds are really hard on the rifling, from brand new to shot-out it's probably only 5-8k rounds. the other issue is that unless you started with a bright new bore you'll have the time of your life trying to clean it after every range trip, a pitted bore is nearly impossible to clean, no matter how many patches you use it's still dirty! I recently discovered old ww2 surplus GI bore cleaner is probably the best cleaner so far, it'll restore the bore to bright & shiny with only a few patches, vs almost a hundred using Hoppes 9. the old surplus cleaner only effective at removing soot, you'll still need water or hoppes 9 to remove the corrosive salts.

Last i checked J&G is still selling chinese T53 mosins for a cent shy of $100 but they look like crap and really beat up. better to get a nice new (or fairly new) mosin from classic arms for $20 more.

i have two tins of 1947 surplus, non magnetic. then i have 11 tins of 1970's surplus with the steel core and can't shoot that alot of ranges... and 3 tins of bulgarian yellow tip heavy ball that's non magnetic and pretty darn accurate. ammo is pretty cheap and the tins are awesome because you can put them anywhere handy and they'll preserve the ammo forever, when you open one it smells like it just came out of the factory moments ago (not 40+ years).

Mosins can benefit alot from handloading. Not all mosins require a .311 bullet, in fact the loads I did for my ex-dragoon I used Berger .3095 155 gr bullets and they were dead accurate. I think you can use regular .308 bullets for loading, I measured a bunch of my 1970's surplus (pulled bullets) and the bullets are .308 diameter.

The one thing i wish these old rifles had is a chrome lined bore. 2x as hard and twice as long lasting than regular steel and super easy to clean, I won't have to search for ww2 bore cleaner anymore. for example, I've shot alot of yugo corrosive and chinese corrosive in my AK & SKS, both have chrome bores, and they were very easy to clean, only a dozen patches at most, didn't bloom with rust on humid days and after several thousand rounds the bore looks still brand new.
I wonder does anyone chrome line existing bores? probably cost a hundred bucks but if i can have my rifle last twice as long it's worth it...

LAGS
November 20, 2013, 01:05 PM
Usually you can not Chrome a bore once it has been shot, because you will never get it clean enough to get the chrome to stick well.
But you could for the same price, get a new Barrel made that is chrome lined.
But finding a barrel in .310 is hard enough .
so it will probably be a .308 bore.
But the option also is to have a Russian Machine Gun barrel in 7.62x54 turned down and threaded to fit the MN action.
They are Chrome lined if I remember correctly.

zhyla
November 20, 2013, 01:51 PM
Mosins are fun but you'll quickly wish the sights were better :(.

1KPerDay
November 20, 2013, 02:13 PM
I recently discovered old ww2 surplus GI bore cleaner is probably the best cleaner so far, (snip)
. the old surplus cleaner only effective at removing soot, you'll still need water or hoppes 9 to remove the corrosive salts.
That's not my understanding. The WWII era GI cleaner is really nasty stuff and removes corrosive salts; that was its design. Probably removes a few hours off your life every time you breathe it or get some on your skin also, but...:D

I will definitely hose mine down with water or windex and then clean as usual. Thanks for the info and advice! :cool:

Just ordered 3 91/30s! Figured they'd be good stocking stuffers for the kids. Better get some longer stockings. :D

jason41987
November 21, 2013, 04:43 AM
ok, ill say it.. i have a mosin nagant and i hate it.. reasons being surplus isnt that great, factory ammo is expensive, and there isnt much selection in .311" bullets.. also, you tend to shift your body more to operate the bolt since you have to reach further ahead to do so.. and atleast for mine the stripper clips were pretty hit and miss.. it actually suprises me the russians stayed with a rimmed cartridge for so long, considering they tend to do very poorly in anything auto loading, and sometimes bolt actions too

nathan
November 21, 2013, 07:39 AM
The AFghans during the 1980s were using it to snipe at Russians . Then they got AKs after that from us as the CIA ramped up support. Now even some reports say the Taliban snipes are still using these century old rifles to take shot or two if they get the chance on our troops.

Yes, its still being in use in combat today. And the fact remains these 91/30s were from the model 1891s that seen action in WW1. The caliber is hard to beat just like the .3006. Its not super accurate but it will take the job done .

jason41987
November 21, 2013, 08:13 AM
mosin nagants on average are really not that accurate.. people assume that since theyre a bolt action then they must be.. most nagants were slapped together in a hurry for war, most ammo used is old military ammo, about 4 inch groups at 100 with surplus, and 2 inches with hand loads.. really, a good quality AK will shoot about as well

fpgt72
November 21, 2013, 10:05 AM
ok, ill say it.. i have a mosin nagant and i hate it.. reasons being surplus isnt that great, factory ammo is expensive, and there isnt much selection in .311" bullets.. also, you tend to shift your body more to operate the bolt since you have to reach further ahead to do so.. and atleast for mine the stripper clips were pretty hit and miss.. it actually suprises me the russians stayed with a rimmed cartridge for so long, considering they tend to do very poorly in anything auto loading, and sometimes bolt actions too
Some people do not care for military surplus weapons, IIRC the 303 uses a 311 bullet as well. Factory ammo around here is no expensive then other center fire cartridges. I don't understand the shift your body...unless you are a south paw.

As far as the rimmed cartridge feeding, I also have a SVT40 and PSL that shoots the same round and I have never had a feeding issue, actually for me they are very reliable and a total blast to shoot. Those two rifles are some of my most fun to shoot. I do however only shoot modern or my reloads in both of those auto loaders, the cleaning is just too much for me in an automatic rifle to mess with corrosive ammo....same goes for all my auto loaders....I never shoot surplus in them.

WALKERs210
November 21, 2013, 02:40 PM
Last year I was at a local gun shop when the brown truck made a delivery. As the workers were unpacking and getting ready to do paperwork and readying for sale I looked at one of the Mosin's. Asked the price and at the time I was offered it for $108.00 out the door, so I bought it. Not expecting anything but at the price just could not say no. Few weeks later I took it out to my shooting area and put up my target and let one rip. To be perfectly honest and the target proved it I was expecting a serious kick from it and I flinched enough to pull off center by a rather extreme distance. After firing it and recoil was so manageable I began putting shots in the center very easy. Some of the issues I have read about, being after a few rounds the bolt would be difficult to close or accuracy would fade out was not the case with this one. For some reason I sold mine and I have every intention of buying another if for no other reason is I still have quite a few rounds left for it. I remember when I was a young boy around 13 or so in downtown Birmingham was a store that in the basement sales area had racks and racks of K98's for a whopping $49.00. Worked all year trying to save $49.00 but by the time I had it they were gone. Not going to make the same mistake on the Mosin's

caribou
November 22, 2013, 01:31 AM
Think "M-28/30" and "M-39" and you'll be thining about the best As issued Mosin varients known to man.
Prehaps then think of the Sniper variations and Target variations and you have a wide variety to choose from, if your wanting Mosin in perfection.... :)

jason41987
November 22, 2013, 01:44 AM
id probably like my mosin nagant a LOT better if it was chambered in something.. better, i mean, 7.62x54R is only slightly longer than .308, slightly less pressure and overall ballistics are pretty much identicle.. but .308 is so much easier to find.. 7.62x54R ammo is a big problem with the mosins..

as for the bolt sticking.. i had that problem pretty bad when i first got mine.. 5 shots and it was impossibly to operate.. so i completely disassembled the bolt assembly.. didnt even require a special tool to do it either.. boiled the parts in soapy water, dried, then re-oiled and not once have i had the problem since.. gotta get the cosmoline out of it

my stock was soaked in cosmoline too but i bled most of it out.. and the cracked flaky shellac i sanded off, re-stained it with a nice red stain that matched the original beautifully, topped it off with 7-8 coats of tru-oil and a light rub with 0000 steel wool in between coatings and im incredibly happy with the finish.. all markings intact too

still though.. if it wasnt for that damn 7.62x54R cartridge i might actually like it

LAGS
November 22, 2013, 04:07 AM
@ jason 41987
If you handloaded for it, you would like it even more.
I have cases from Winchester, Hanson, Norma, and parvi that I reload.
This can be a very accurate round, and I think superior to the .308 and dang close to the .30-06 even at a lower pressure cartridge.
I actually want to build a 7.62x54 rifle on a British P-14 action but I can not find a Russian machine Gun barrel that is chrome lined to use for the rebarreling.
All other barrels would be .308 bore, and I want to stay with the .310 bore.

jason41987
November 22, 2013, 08:09 AM
i do reload for 7.62x54R, have the same winchester brass you probably have that came pre-primed, biggest pain in the rear i have with it is the lack of really good .311 bullets.. would be nice to find something like a hornady a-max or SST bullet in .311.. but what i typically use now are 174 grain FMJ BT bullets

if youre going to go through all of that to convert a P-14 to 7.62x54R, why not have a newer and most likely higher quality, more accurate barrel made?.. cant you get .310-.311 barrel blanks?

fpgt72
November 22, 2013, 08:22 AM
I am not sure how 54R can be a problem, how it is hard to find. Still the surplus stuff is very inexpensive, and easy to be had. Factory is available and in my area (Kansas city) both Cabelas, Bass Pro, and even one walmart carries it....when they have anything. Online you can find surplus for as low as $4.50 for 20 round box without trying hard and have the spam cans shipped to your door for under $100 for a 440 round can.....that is about as cheap and easy as you can get, the 54R is one of the great selling points of the rifle.

As far as being accurate I think that they are no worse or better over any other 100yr old rifle. Think about that for a second, the most common, most inexpensive, and roughest models are World War II production 1942 to 2013...we are talking about 71 years here....that is a bit of time. Now lets think about how well they are cared for during that war....I would bet there are rifles out there that got cleaned once they got turned in....and then after they got pulled out of the mud and the muck from some soviet battle field 4 days later.

These rifles lead a very rough life. If you can find one that is in good shape it is just as accurate as any other WWII bolt battle rifle.

HexHead
November 22, 2013, 09:06 AM
i do reload for 7.62x54R, have the same winchester brass you probably have that came pre-primed, biggest pain in the rear i have with it is the lack of really good .311 bullets.. would be nice to find something like a hornady a-max or SST bullet in .311.. but what i typically use now are 174 grain FMJ BT bullets


I've seen Sierra MatchKings in .311.


91/30s were sighted in at the factory with the bayonets attached, and are likely to be more accurate with the bayonet.

In the words of a famous Soviet General, "The bullet is foolish, the bayonet wise". Soviet doctrine at the time was that the rifle was to always have the bayonet attached, unless the soldiers were in vehicles. They weren't even issued scabbards.

jason41987
November 22, 2013, 09:28 AM
well, throughout the last century or so it seems the russians kept finding themselves in one war after another with a very, very large population to supply.. its present in everything theyve made over the years.. their tanks throughout wwii were some of the simplest, and easiest to make, though were never the fastest, the most powerful, or the most armored.. german tanks were much better, but a lot more expensive to make which was fine as they had a lower population and needed the better,more expensive stuff to make up for it

i believe the russian planes in WWII were basically plywood, and judging by the actions of the government in charge over this period of time i doubt their "leaders" really gave a damn about the safety of any of their soldiers and basically had a philosophy of throwing everyone they can at a problem whether they had the appropriate tool for the job or not.. granted, their stuffs a lot better now since there hasnt been a big change in firearm technology in the last 60-70 years.. germans invented the assault rifle in the early 40s and there really has been much difference since

but, not to get off topic my point is this.. just because the mosin nagant is a bolt action, dont assume its going to live up to the expectations of what you may assume a bolt action is capable of.. most people i speak to assume theyll pick up a mosin nagant and start hitting half inch groups because its a bolt action.. and nope, not going to do it, not even going to get 1 inch groups, and will be lucky to get 2 inch groups with good ammo

thats not suggesting the design is in any way flawed.. it is a front-locking design with a total of three lugs, they can handle abuse and im fairly certain the 7.62x54R ammo ive made recently is quite a bit hotter than factory or military ammo and it handles it just fine.. with a hell of a fireball though but zero signs of wear or pressure.. the barrel i have has tooling marks on the barrel itself from when it was contoured so you can see it was slapped together with great haste and little care..

so if you were to smooth out some of the tool marks on the bolt, on contact surfaces, and had a NEW .311 barrel contourted to match the original, yeah, .5MOA is quite reasonable, but the way MOST were made theyre just not that impressive

LAGS
November 22, 2013, 10:52 AM
@ Jason41987
The MN round is very accurate, and I have never had a problem finding the .311 bullets and good ones like the Sierra Match Kings
I prefer the 150 gr over the 180's
I want to build the rifle on the P-14 action because it is the Rimmed cartridge version of out Enfield P-17 and one of the strongest actions built.
I can not find a barrel blank in .310 or .311 that is why I want to use the MG barrel.
And the MG barrels are Heavy like a bull barrel, and are chrome lined.
The rifles were originally built bu Col. Jawad Umar back in the 80's and have very good accuracy out past 800 yards.
They are known as "Dangar Rifles"
I want to build one and let my friends that compete in Long Range Competition try it out.

hdbiker
November 22, 2013, 11:37 AM
I found a #44 Mosin Nagant at yard sale last summer. A 1946 built, in pristeen condition, blueing and bore are in as new condition.Not restamped with all matching numbers except stock. Bore slugs at .312.Guy took 75.00 dollars for it. I found a as new sling and 5 new soviet stripper clips at a gun show for 25.00 bucks. So for 100.00 bucks I'm a happy camper. hdbiiker

fpgt72
November 22, 2013, 12:30 PM
well, throughout the last century or so it seems the russians kept finding themselves in one war after another with a very, very large population to supply.. its present in everything theyve made over the years.. their tanks throughout wwii were some of the simplest, and easiest to make, though were never the fastest, the most powerful, or the most armored.. german tanks were much better, but a lot more expensive to make which was fine as they had a lower population and needed the better,more expensive stuff to make up for it

i believe the russian planes in WWII were basically plywood, and judging by the actions of the government in charge over this period of time i doubt their "leaders" really gave a damn about the safety of any of their soldiers and basically had a philosophy of throwing everyone they can at a problem whether they had the appropriate tool for the job or not.. granted, their stuffs a lot better now since there hasnt been a big change in firearm technology in the last 60-70 years.. germans invented the assault rifle in the early 40s and there really has been much difference since

but, not to get off topic my point is this.. just because the mosin nagant is a bolt action, dont assume its going to live up to the expectations of what you may assume a bolt action is capable of.. most people i speak to assume theyll pick up a mosin nagant and start hitting half inch groups because its a bolt action.. and nope, not going to do it, not even going to get 1 inch groups, and will be lucky to get 2 inch groups with good ammo

thats not suggesting the design is in any way flawed.. it is a front-locking design with a total of three lugs, they can handle abuse and im fairly certain the 7.62x54R ammo ive made recently is quite a bit hotter than factory or military ammo and it handles it just fine.. with a hell of a fireball though but zero signs of wear or pressure.. the barrel i have has tooling marks on the barrel itself from when it was contoured so you can see it was slapped together with great haste and little care..

so if you were to smooth out some of the tool marks on the bolt, on contact surfaces, and had a NEW .311 barrel contourted to match the original, yeah, .5MOA is quite reasonable, but the way MOST were made theyre just not that impressive
When using surplus weapons you have to go in with a different mindset. You are shooting history not a modern rifle....to think you are going to get sub MOA is just not realistic...yea it can happen, but don't bank on it, that is not what the rifle was EVER built for.

Personally I use great care in loading for anything that is over a half a century old I find it to be a risky move to load it "quite a bit hotter" but that is you.

The rifles in this class are what they are....old military rifles that came out of a warehouse somewhere then sold off. Nothing else is usually done to them, and not much was done to make them any better then when they got put away to never be seen in a great many peoples lifetime.

I enjoy the rifles....all my military hardware.....for what they are....what they did, the history is what talks to me. All those that do this and that to them really just TRY to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Enjoy it for what it is....if you want to but 5 rounds in the same hole you need to go to walmart and spend $300 and you will out shoot most mosins every day of the week and twice on sunday.

Palehorseman
November 22, 2013, 08:16 PM
Re:fpgt72== their tanks throughout wwii were some of the simplest, and easiest to make, though were never the fastest, the most powerful, or the most armored.. german tanks were much better,



Odd, the Soviet T-34 tank is given up as being the most modern and best battle tank of WW2. The Nazis were dumbfounded when they first encountered the subhuman race's T-34, and it destroyed everything the Germans had, while their tank rounds bounced off the T-34 armor.

The later German Tiger tank was a huge lumbering piece of crap which always broke down when most needed. (as in the battle of Kursk)

T-34, Number one tank of all time: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dce_1271264917

jason41987
November 23, 2013, 03:40 AM
fpgt, that was my point though, many people expect since its a bolt action that theyre going to get something theyre not, and if accuracy is something someone thinks theyre going to get, they MIGHT get lucky and get an accurate mosin nagant, but its unlikely

LAGS
November 23, 2013, 09:24 AM
The Mosin Nagants have become the Latest Cheap Mil Surp craze over the past ten years since the decline of Russia.
I remember these rifles as a kid, and my dads friends having them that they brought back from the Korean war, then the rifles some of my friends brought back from Viet Nam.
Back then, you could hardly find ammo for them, but I bought my first one in 1976 anyway.
They are what they are, Mil Surp shooters, and right now Cheap to shoot for a Big Bore rifle.
But many will continue to use them for a platform to build range toys or an ocassional Custom Rifle.
I think everone should have at least one, but not as a collector Piece, but just as a link in the international evolution of military firearms design.
Right now they are plentiful, and reasonably priced.
But you really cant knock a design that served and is still being used around the world for over 100 years.

nathan
November 23, 2013, 09:47 AM
Amazing they have been around for a long time and the prices remain the same. Most likely the numbers sold in the USA has passed the 1 million mark . These bolt rifles are as cheap as eating at a Chinese buffet. American shooters love a cheap budget gun that dont break the bank . You get more for your buck . What s not to like....

lencac
November 23, 2013, 11:39 PM
I've had my fair share of Mosin Nagants, 91/30. M38, M44, M39. The M39 is the cream of the crop as far as accuracy and overall quality. 91/30's are capable of generating some very high muzzle velocities due to the barrel length if you use a relatively slow powder. M38's are by far the most wieldy. M44 are probably the least used and can be found in new or near new condition.
Mosins are not the most accurate or the highest quality or best looking but they are reliable, powerful and I wouldn't stand in front of one.:uhoh:
Nevertheless, I still like them as my latest 91/30 project will attest.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=735560

jason41987
November 24, 2013, 12:07 AM
my mosin is an M38.. i actually wanted one a bit shorter and a bit lighter.. M44 and 91/30 weigh about the same so i went M38.. not disappointed in the way it handles.. the massive fireball out the end of the barrel in the evening kind of freaks people out though

danweasel
November 24, 2013, 01:20 AM
Mmmmm Mosin. Too bad I lost my front sight post.

Yeah, that's right,

KSCCHTrainer
November 24, 2013, 08:48 AM
id probably like my mosin nagant a LOT better if it was chambered in something.. better, i mean, 7.62x54R is only slightly longer than .308, slightly less pressure and overall ballistics are pretty much identicle.. but .308 is so much easier to find.. 7.62x54R ammo is a big problem with the mosins..-------
still though.. if it wasnt for that damn 7.62x54R cartridge i might actually like it

Jason, you might want to do a bit more real research on that 7.62 X 54R cartridge. It was designed in 1891, is still in use today so it's the longest, continuous serving, military cartridge in the world.

As for ballistics, it is much closer to the 30-06 than .308. In fact, in some cases, with the Bulgarian "heavy ball" 180 grain ammo, it actually retains more energy at 1000 meters than the 30-06 did. Granted the -54R was fired from a bolt gun and the 30-06 comparison was done using the M1 Garand (gas operated).

There are actually reloading books out there that treat the 7.62X54R as having a .308 diameter bullet when, in fact it should be .311 or .312 depending on whether or not your are using jacketed (.311) or lead (.312) bullets. If you reload for it and use .308 diameter bullets, unless you are using one the Finns re-barreled, chances are the groups will look more like a shotgun pattern than a rifle group.

Jim

Ditchtiger
November 24, 2013, 09:10 AM
it actually suprises me the russians stayed with a rimmed cartridge for so long, considering they tend to do very poorly in anything auto loading
My SVT-40 goes through 54r ammo like it's eating candy, rim and all.
No FTF or extract.

Ditchtiger
November 24, 2013, 09:16 AM
ok, ill say it.. I have a mosin nagant and i hate it..
blasphemer!!!!!!!!!!

1KPerDay
December 13, 2013, 04:41 PM
I picked up my 3. I didn't fully unwrap them because I wanted the kids to... but I got a look at the receivers and the surrounding wood. They look new. :uhoh: Molot, russian star, 1938, 1940, and 1942.

Now if I could just get someone to trade me 54R ammo for 5.45 7n6. Nobody seems to want to trade, even though 1080 round cans are selling for about the same price as 880 rounds (2 cans) of 54r. :scrutiny:

Arkansas Paul
December 13, 2013, 05:11 PM
I have no clue why I haven't picked a couple of them up. I need to do that before they get more expensive.

Jimbo53
December 13, 2013, 07:19 PM
They do tend to multiply. All I wanted was a M-44. Now I have 2 91/30s, 2 M-38's, 1952 Polish M-44, 2 Russian M-44's, 1 Romanian m-44 and last but not least a Russian 91/59. Cheap ammo and a blast to shoot. Love my Mosin's.

tark
December 13, 2013, 07:54 PM
I've owned a couple of Mosins in my time and they both shot well. My current Mosin is a New England Westinghouse dated 1915, It has shot several groups at 100 yards that could be covered with a quarter, with Russian Surplus ammo. The New Englands and the Remingtons are the best of the breed. The Russians had inspectors crawling all over the production line, who were extremely nit picking about quality. The resulting rifles were held to some of the most exacting production standards ever, and the group mine will print would seem to lend validity to that. At least that is how the story goes, I don't know for sure. Mine is finished awfully nice, I do know that much. The polishing and finish would rival any 98 Mauser military I have ever seen.

Hokkmike
December 14, 2013, 07:52 AM
There is a inherent DANGER here:

First I bought a Yugo 24/47 in 8mm Mauser.

Now, a Mosin Nagant...

So now I feel I need a K-98, K-31, A303, Enfield, Swedish Mauser, and etc.

Al countries need to be heard from.

docsleepy
December 14, 2013, 03:28 PM
Take one Mosin-Nagant, $130, hacksaw off lousy barrel at the front. Use Lee case trimmer tool, large-size, to re-crown. Use brass screws to finish bevel. Cut three-quarter inch steel water pipe to fit, gblue on with JB Weld to stiffen barrel. Remove rear sight, add $40 pistol scope. Buy Norma brass, Sierra bullets, and load.

I can easily hit a 22 inch AR 500 gong at 600 yards with this combination. Other guys are using thousand dollar rifles.

1KPerDay
December 26, 2013, 12:06 AM
Kids loved their gifts. 2 of the rifles are in really good shape. Almost new. The other has some external rust but overall good shape.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Mosin%20Nagants/IMAG0955_zps4c3e5390.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Mosin%20Nagants/IMAG0957_zps5a61b3b1.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Mosin%20Nagants/IMAG0960_zpsbabd8349.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Mosin%20Nagants/IMAG0961_zps8a5e9707.jpg

samort457
December 26, 2013, 11:30 AM
I have a M91/30 and LOVE it. Its one of the smoothest shooting guns I've ever shot, a nice stout recoil without being painful and unbearable, and it shoots the cheap steel cased 174 grain Brown bear extremely accurately, considering it being 70 years old. And on top of that I didn't have one hiccup in the fifty rounds I shot.

Twmaster
December 26, 2013, 11:34 AM
There is a inherent DANGER here:

First I bought a Yugo 24/47 in 8mm Mauser.

Now, a Mosin Nagant...

So now I feel I need a K-98, K-31, A303, Enfield, Swedish Mauser, and etc.

Al countries need to be heard from.
You forget the Japanese and the Arisaka.... :D

ahtoxa
December 26, 2013, 12:51 PM
I have the M44.

Kicks pretty hard, shoots a fireball out of the barrel at night, and is one of the louder rifles.

Best $120 I ever spent.

Tim G.
Ditto. Got one last week for $130.

1KPerDay
December 29, 2013, 01:40 AM
first shoot with son:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1npMF9yb74

91/30
December 29, 2013, 07:00 AM
Both of my rifles are 91/30s. A 1938 and a 1942. They are better than I am. I've managed one inch groups at 100 yards multiple times with both of 'em. These rifles are worth every penny.

meanmrmustard
December 29, 2013, 08:11 AM
Wait until you get your hands on a Finnish Mosin.

Shooting a Sako M39 and a Tikka 91/30 are religious.

fpgt72
December 30, 2013, 08:39 AM
You forget the Japanese and the Arisaka.... :D
And an SVT40, and G43, Garand, springfield....several Arasaka's, the list goes on and on...then you move into Krag, Trap Door springfield....it never ends my friend.

But in all truth you can do just the 91/30 and have a very wide collection for less then the price of just an SVT40 or G43/41. There are so many flavors of the 91/30 it is just amazing, and it could fill several safes themselves. Then for the crown jewel get that SVT 40....you think the 91/30 is fun try the SVT....now those are a blast.

nathan
December 30, 2013, 10:16 AM
Stock up on 54 R while they are available and plentiful.

LAGS
December 30, 2013, 10:48 AM
@ Nathan
Also, I suggest anyone who has a M-N that they buy reloadable ammo, and make a small investment in a Lee Classic Reloader, if they do not want to get into full on reloading.
It will also give you the option to be able to pull apart MilSurp cheaper ammo and reload it with better bullets for hunting and such to keep your ammo costs way down.
30 years ago I use to buy Chinese 7.62x54 Brass cased ammo that was really good.
But due to Politics, you cant get the stuff any more.
Now it is all Steel cases ammo with steel core bullets, and the primers are corrosive even if they say they are not.

fpgt72
December 30, 2013, 03:10 PM
@ Nathan
Also, I suggest anyone who has a M-N that they buy reloadable ammo, and make a small investment in a Lee Classic Reloader, if they do not want to get into full on reloading.
It will also give you the option to be able to pull apart MilSurp cheaper ammo and reload it with better bullets for hunting and such to keep your ammo costs way down.
30 years ago I use to buy Chinese 7.62x54 Brass cased ammo that was really good.
But due to Politics, you cant get the stuff any more.
Now it is all Steel cases ammo with steel core bullets, and the primers are corrosive even if they say they are not.
Most of the surplus stuff I have seen is berdan primed, so a real pain to reload....as in not worth it.

If you want to reload for the 54R just buy some partisan new factory ammo and be on your way.

LAGS
December 30, 2013, 03:30 PM
@ fpgt72
What I have done for many years is Buy the Cheap Surplus ammo and use my bullet puller to remove the bullets, and replace them with the same weight of soft point bullet for hunting.
If you play with the powder load, you will be suprised at the accuracy you can get.
Or save the bullet and powder and reload the military case with a cast bullet and 2400 powder, then use the bullets in my .303, and the powder in other rifles.
It sounds like a lot of work for nothing, but the primers on the old ammo is what gets weak.
But they still fire the cast bullets really well, and with the powder, bullet,& primer shortage, I am still shooting all I want.
I am not wasting good primers and lots of powder shooting blasting Cast loads and with proper loading the bullets I salvaged are plenty accurate in other guns, and far better than they were in the Mosin Nagant.
But having reloadable cases Now, will prevent the higher prices you will have to pay once the Surplus Supply runs out.

I can find surplus ammo and at prices that are cheaper in some cases than I can find just the powder or FMJ bullets for the .303.

tomdnix
December 30, 2013, 10:28 PM
I backed into mine went on "Cheaper then Dirt" for some AK ammo and screwed up clicked 7.62 X54R. Was left with the choice of selling three cans of ammo or getting a new gun, it was a no brainer. Fitted it with a scope and plan on sighting it in this week.

tahunua001
December 30, 2013, 10:46 PM
sounds like the OP has been bitten by the milsurp bug. my first was a enfield and 4 months later I owned that enfield, 2 mosin nagants and a springfield 1903.

johnthomas
December 31, 2013, 03:58 AM
You got Mosin Nagant's for your kids for Christmas? I am 60 years old and that excites the heck out of me, lol.
With the internet and having one, they will be experts in no time. There are great sites that they can go to.
http://7.62x54r.net/
http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/index.asp
http://www.jgsales.com/7.62x54r-comm-bloc-light-ball-fmj-ammo,-steel-case,-440rd-tin.-p-4431.html
Congratulations on making their Christmas. And Yours.

fpgt72
December 31, 2013, 10:53 AM
@ fpgt72
What I have done for many years is Buy the Cheap Surplus ammo and use my bullet puller to remove the bullets, and replace them with the same weight of soft point bullet for hunting.
If you play with the powder load, you will be suprised at the accuracy you can get.
Or save the bullet and powder and reload the military case with a cast bullet and 2400 powder, then use the bullets in my .303, and the powder in other rifles.
It sounds like a lot of work for nothing, but the primers on the old ammo is what gets weak.
But they still fire the cast bullets really well, and with the powder, bullet,& primer shortage, I am still shooting all I want.
I am not wasting good primers and lots of powder shooting blasting Cast loads and with proper loading the bullets I salvaged are plenty accurate in other guns, and far better than they were in the Mosin Nagant.
But having reloadable cases Now, will prevent the higher prices you will have to pay once the Surplus Supply runs out.

I can find surplus ammo and at prices that are cheaper in some cases than I can find just the powder or FMJ bullets for the .303.
I see where you are going with that....I also have a PSL and the SVT that shoot the 54R.

That is why I got into the reloading....cleaning those to where I would want them to be after shooting corrosive is just not worth it to me....so I shoot my own loads in them.

You are correct in saying you will be amazed how much better the rifles will do with your loads. I have started using my hand loads even in the 91/30 because it just shoots so much better. I have a can of the surplus stuff that has so much dust on it not even funny....I only shoot the surplus stuff when screwing around anymore...as in lets poke holes in this or that.

GlockFan
December 31, 2013, 02:10 PM
It looks like Classicfirearms has them now for $99 if anyone is interested.

http://www.classicfirearms.com/c-r-eligible/originalmolotm9130wbayob

Jlr2267
December 31, 2013, 02:41 PM
It looks like Classicfirearms has them now for $99 if anyone is interested.

http://www.classicfirearms.com/c-r-eligible/originalmolotm9130wbayob

I got one of these during the black Friday sale for $89, and it is a nice rifle. The "Molot" rifles are snubbed by collectors, because they are basically cobbled together Mosins (as in recently, not at a war-time arsenal), and sold as hunting rifles. To me, it makes no difference as long as they are not modified from the original design.

Mine was a Tula with DDR stamp, all matching except the mag plate which was force-matched.

I would say for $99 + shipping, you can't lose. I plan to get another at this price as soon as my wife forgets about the last one ;-)

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