Coming soon..."Worlds smallest 45 auto"


PDA






Rembrandt
November 19, 2013, 06:38 PM
Boberg is now taking pre-orders for the XR-45S.....tentative shipping scheduled for spring 2014.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0166/4838/files/pre_order_xr45.jpg?248

If you enjoyed reading about "Coming soon..."Worlds smallest 45 auto"" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
saitek
November 19, 2013, 07:23 PM
it's kinda neat but at $1199.00 it aint that neat.or practical

youngsait
November 19, 2013, 07:24 PM
Wow, I am in line.

newfalguy101
November 19, 2013, 07:29 PM
spose the real guns will look as good as the computer generated one they are using as an advertisement piece???

righteoushoot
November 19, 2013, 08:20 PM
4+1?

RainDodger
November 19, 2013, 08:47 PM
I'm guess I'm seriously wondering what makes this about $500-$600 better than something like the 3.3" Springfield XDS .45ACP. Especially since the reviews on the XDS are pretty much stellar. That's an awful lot of money for a pocket pistol, since you're primarily just looking for dead-on reliability and that's it.

private snowball
November 19, 2013, 08:51 PM
I would rather have a FP-45

ColtPythonElite
November 19, 2013, 09:01 PM
Half the gun at twice the price...no thanks.

oneounceload
November 19, 2013, 09:01 PM
No specs listed as to size, weight, etc........

TarDevil
November 19, 2013, 09:02 PM
I'm guess I'm seriously wondering what makes this about $500-$600 better than something like the 3.3" Springfield XDS .45ACP. Especially since the reviews on the XDS are pretty much stellar. That's an awful lot of money for a pocket pistol, since you're primarily just looking for dead-on reliability and that's it.
4 inch barrel in a very tiny package. Still not sure it's worth a grand, but I like it.

bigfatdave
November 19, 2013, 09:03 PM
I would rather have a FP-45

What a liberating thought

ugaarguy
November 19, 2013, 09:04 PM
Many of the questions asked can be answered by searching reviews and comments on the existing Boberg XR9-S. Namely, the unique magazine and feeding system allow Boberg to get an extra round in the mag and get a longer bbl into the same length pistol.

ritepath
November 19, 2013, 09:06 PM
For that kind of scratch I can pickup a sig 220, and continue to carry my shield.

Mainsail
November 19, 2013, 09:51 PM
$1199.00?

My XDs makes the same noise when you pull the trigger, and cost less than half as much.

orionengnr
November 19, 2013, 10:11 PM
Sometimes, technology is the answer for the consumer.

More often, technology is the answer for the salesman. :)

Time will tell which is the case here.
The 9mm Boberg is a fascinating piece of work, but I'm not sure it is "the answer", or "a breakthrough" in anything other than "gee whiz" tech. Sure are some extra moving parts in that design that have yet to be proven.

I haven't put my PM9 up for sale to buy one, nor have I stopped looking at the Solo CDP with lust. Nor will I, any time soon.

My mind is open, but...I'm not easy.

lpsharp88
November 19, 2013, 10:18 PM
If I'm going to drop that kind of money on a firearm, it's going to be very reliable, and at least be mildly good looking. In my opinion, this thing is approaching Hi-Point on the bad looks scale. I'll pass

el Godfather
November 19, 2013, 10:27 PM
1200 bucks......for this junk- yet people complain paying for quality H&K stuff.

I will pass.

jeepnik
November 19, 2013, 10:34 PM
I'd like to know the specs as well. I might go for it depending on those.

Rembrandt
November 19, 2013, 10:40 PM
Have been using a Boberg XR9S as EDC for over a year now. The quality is on par with Wilson Combat and other high end guns.

Feed design has been a proven design for over a hundred years beginning with Hiram Maxim's machine gun and other military applications. Arne Boberg is the first to successfully incorporate it in a handgun. The use of five axis CNC machining has made what once was considered impractical designs for production now possible.

HarcyPervin
November 19, 2013, 11:18 PM
Having no experience with Boberg, I'm quite interested, if for nothing else than supporting a local company. I hadn't realized the company is based in White Bear Lake.

saitek
November 19, 2013, 11:38 PM
I am happy with the sig sauer p250 sub compact that I got from palmetto state armory for $339.00
http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Am86JR4BvPHvCVaraEwGwZSbvZx4?p=sig+sauer+subcompact+p250+45&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-140

StrikeFire83
November 19, 2013, 11:46 PM
Has Arnie fixed the "pulling the bullet out of the case" problem that the guns were experiencing about a year ago. The concept is, as ever, interesting, I just don't know if the price/performance/reliability trifecta are there yet.

nwilliams
November 19, 2013, 11:59 PM
Personally I can think of many other guns in that same price range that I would much rather have. I'll pass.

silicosys4
November 20, 2013, 12:35 AM
Interesting to see if the bullet pulling problem is exacerbated by the heavier .45 bullet, or if Boberg has addressed that issue. Seems to me if it was an issue in the 9mm, it will be even more of an issue to deal with in .45.
I dunno, it seems my inertia puller works easier on a 200 gr or 230 grain bullet in a .45 than it does on a 124 gr. 9mm. Could be the neck tension on my press, though.

If that issue were fixed, I could see paying that money. It's an innovative design with a few advantages, and it sounds like feeding issues aside, I am getting a well made, domestically produced handgun.....I compare to what I'd get for the money from say, Kimber, and am much more impressed with the innovation and improvements to contemporary designs of the Boberg.

VA27
November 20, 2013, 01:09 AM
If it comes in near the size of the 9mm version, I'm in.

Lucky Derby
November 20, 2013, 01:48 AM
Interesting design. Is it worth $1200? To some yes, to some no. Street price will likely be lower. I have yet to see a 9mm in person.
This is kind of the Chiappa Rhino of semi-autos.

tarosean
November 20, 2013, 02:26 AM
"Worlds smallest 45 auto"

equates to you really dont want to shoot this thing unless you have too.

bigfatdave
November 20, 2013, 02:30 AM
Has Arnie fixed the "pulling the bullet out of the case" problem

I've only been following the Boberg story in a "vauge interest" way - but wasn't that problem more a problem with ammo known to have very little neck tension/crimp, like Speer lawman?

I seem to recall reading about a "recommended ammo list" or "non-reco. ammo list" being in the box with the gun, also. Which sucks, but the Boberg wouldn't be the first gun to come with known ammo pickiness from the factory.

silicosys4
November 20, 2013, 02:34 AM
Can't be worse to shoot than one of those double tap derringers! Especially the ones that fire both barrels at once! Twice the price but I would bet there is twice the machining and engineering too.

MrMarty51
November 20, 2013, 02:41 AM
The wifey wants a new unit for concealed carry. this one might just fit the bill.

460Kodiak
November 20, 2013, 10:02 AM
Can't be worse to shoot than one of those double tap derringers! Especially the ones that fire both barrels at once!

That would qualify it as a machine gun, and would be illegal.

I'll stick with my XDs. I'd maybe try one if it's price was reasonable.

It isn't now.

bannockburn
November 20, 2013, 11:34 AM
At that price I can come up with a lot of other guns I would like to have before I would consider getting this one.

WardenWolf
November 20, 2013, 11:44 AM
Interesting. It's effectively a bullpup, so the trigger probably won't be that good. There has to be a linkage. That said, shifting it rearward WILL help with muzzle rise. The downside from a defensive handgun point of view is that shooting from retention or other non-standard positions is more problematic due to the extra rearward throw of the slide, and if you limpwrist it you could even strike your own wrist with it.

PabloJ
November 20, 2013, 05:30 PM
If it comes in near the size of the 9mm version, I'm in.
You're dreaming. This gun would be about same size as XDs if magazine capacity was identical.

tommy.duncan
November 20, 2013, 08:54 PM
1199.00?!?! I will continue to carry full size!!

LightningMan
November 20, 2013, 08:59 PM
I would like to know how they fixed the problem with bullets getting pulled, because I had an XR9-S awhile ago, and had issues with it. One issue of course was that sometimes a bullet would get pulled and it wasn't just my reloads, as I had some Speer Gold-Dots come apart too. The other was that every now and then when the gun cycled after firing a round, the next round instead of chambering would be thrown out with the empty casing. At first I sent it back for a good going through, which Boberg paid the shipping, and turn around time was short within 2 weeks. But when I recieved it back, the issue of live rounds being tossed instead of being chambered was not fixed, so I sent it back for a refund, which I recieved with no hassels. So that is great Customer Service, but for me I'll keep my Kahr PM9. FWIW the Boberg XR9-S seemed extremely well made, and when it worked right was accurate and recoil was very managable, has good sights and good trigger. I still wished mine had not had any issues, because I really wanted it to work. I hope the issues have been ironed out. LM

dacotah
November 20, 2013, 09:06 PM
equates to you really dont want to shoot this thing unless you have too.

As an owner of the 9mm version -- recoil is much better than my 3" XD SubCompact pistol. My wife thinks the Boberg has less recoil than her 4" XD full-size. Trigger feel is fairly smooth, feels like a double-action.

Customer Service is excellent as well. I live in Minneapolis and was able to stop by when I had a small issue. One of the guys there showed me exactly what the issue was and what to fix.

herkyguy
November 21, 2013, 12:06 PM
that is a heck of a lot of money for a pocket pistol. even if reviews came out saying it's the best shooting 45 out there, i'm not sure i'd drop $1200 for it. i'll stick with my XDs (whenver it comes back) and drop the $1200 on a nice 1911 - money spent tuning a gun to shoot at better ranges.

hardluk1
November 21, 2013, 01:04 PM
Wow , as picky as bobergs are about ammo and knowing how picky short barreld 45's are this should be a interesting pistol to make reliable. I passed on the 9mm version and with other micro 45 out there that work well and or close enough in size not to mater.

2wheels
November 21, 2013, 01:07 PM
Very interesting, but also very expensive... I'd at least like to put a few rounds downrange with one.

C0untZer0
November 21, 2013, 01:44 PM
1200 bucks......for this junk- yet people complain paying for quality H&K stuff.

Arne doesn't make junk. Every Boberg owner I've ever talked to says their gun is high-quality and beautiful.

The issue of pulling the pants off bullets is basically feed your Boberg bullets that can keep their pants on.

If you really really want to carry a particular type of ammo that doesn't hold together in the Boberg the it's obviously a deal breaker.

Federal HST, Winchester Ranger "T" Series, Buffalo Bore, and 147gr Speer Gold Dots hold together,,, that's good enough ammo for me.

http://community.bobergarms.com/forum/topics/boberg-compatible-ammunition

PistolPete45
November 21, 2013, 01:51 PM
A bit pricey. I might if I were not a happy kimber carrier ..Will be interesting to see how well it sells and performs ..

CZ223
November 21, 2013, 07:17 PM
If my Kimber Ultras or my XDS 45 is too big I"ll go with my LC-9 or my LCP.

Napalm
November 22, 2013, 01:29 PM
Was just in Dallas. Jackson armory store has these Borerg pistols in stock, they are pretty damn cool

jeepnik
November 22, 2013, 08:36 PM
Apparently they don't really want to sell them. I sent them an email asking for the specs, and the haven't responded. Not a really good way to do business, ignoring potential customers.

barnbwt
November 22, 2013, 10:52 PM
Jeezus crust, look at this thread. :eek: And people wonder why there's no innovation in gun designs :rolleyes: :banghead:. The Boberg's ammo sensitivity is honestly no different than other small guns' sensitive needs --they are operating on razor-thin margin of mass, force, and momentum compared to bigger guns. On a forward-feeding design, the concern would be for bullet-setback (which is a real hazard this design actually nullifies ;) ). I do agree that the issue will likely be worse with much-heavier 45ACP bullets, but since the Boberg is a strong design capable of 9mm +P, heavy crimping may be a solution without a downside.

Interesting. It's effectively a bullpup, so the trigger probably won't be that good. There has to be a linkage.
You do realize every single pistol design with a magazine in the grip works this way, right? :scrutiny: Even the 1911.

I sent them an email asking for the specs, and the haven't responded.
There's a good chance there are no specs yet, since the gun is still early in the design phase (hence why a CAD rendering was featured instead of a prototype). It's worse business to promise customers what you can't deliver *cough* keltec *cough*. I don't think it was any secret that the Boberg was destined for other service cartridges, but the super tiny form factor obviously requires a total redesign of all those close-fitted parts wrapped around the chamber. It's not a drop in modification.

spose the real guns will look as good as the computer generated one they are using as an advertisement piece???

See the last point I made, plus, "yes, it will look just like the computer model," since the gun is made on 5-axis CNC equipment that cuts metal to match the computer model to within .0005" (give or take based on his machinery)

This is kind of the Chiappa Rhino of semi-autos.
Maybe, If Chiappa hadn't bungled their rollout with crappy Italian quality control and meat-headed distributor representatives. What a lost opportunity that was...

I swear that half the nay-say'ers commenting here are unaware there already has been a well made and highly successful 9mm variant on the market for like a year, now :banghead:. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it sucks or doesn't exist :p. And the gun competes with the Rohrbaugh 9's, not the Ruger 32acp's; hence the ~1000$ price tag. I'm not sure some people realize just how compact these guns are; it's quite remarkable, and not much else competes with it. Fewer realize just how expensive 5-axis machining/ery is, what it can do, and how new it is in the gun industry

TCB

StrikeFire83
November 23, 2013, 12:42 AM
The issue of pulling the pants off bullets is basically feed your Boberg bullets that can keep their pants on.

If you really really want to carry a particular type of ammo that doesn't hold together in the Boberg the it's obviously a deal breaker.

Federal HST, Winchester Ranger "T" Series, Buffalo Bore, and 147gr Speer Gold Dots hold together,,, that's good enough ammo for me.

Three posts up from you a guy was just saying how the Boberg was pulling apart his Speer Gold Dots so the problem wasn't limited just to crappy plinking ammo. And I followed the forum for quite some time, the Boberg was pulling apart American Eagle, Winchester White Box and Remington UMC. Now those are the three most commonly available types of practice ammo. If the gun only functions with a select number of high dollar hollow points and nothing else that is not good.

Arne seems like a very nice guy and I want his company to succeed. But innovation solely for innovation's sake is not enough to make me purchase a serious business CHL firearm. I wish him the best and hope the bugs have been largely ironed out.

snooperman
November 23, 2013, 10:40 AM
Boberg pistols are something new with a different engineering design concept. Many people like to buy into that, and that is fine. I prefer the traditional tried and true with a solid track record. To each his own.

jeepnik
November 23, 2013, 10:41 AM
brnbwt. Okay, so they don't have the specs hashed out yet. But, it's good business (and I own one) to respond to inquiries. A simple, email explaining this and promising to email further info when available keeps folks interested.

powder
November 23, 2013, 10:43 PM
I just scooped up another used G36 for 500, with N/S..

1200 for what?

TennJed
November 24, 2013, 03:10 AM
Personally I can think of many other guns in that same price range that I would much rather have. I'll pass.
I agree. I guess if $ was no object I would love one. Interesting design, but it doesn't do that much more. One more round and a slightly longer barrel is cool, but honestly in a pocket gun scenario is the slightly longer barrel going to make much difference in a 3 yard shot? Is one more round that big of a deal when you are using a low round gun anyway?

Rembrandt
November 24, 2013, 05:53 PM
Here's some specs on the 45....

http://community.bobergarms.com/photo/xr45-s-outline?context=latest

http://api.ning.com/files/3hJJ81Xiql3n4GINLVl4IHRaS7d79hXb4W3aCNuopqh259sxkPpRgxpgFg1elABvjHEvpDQdqrUlCbcSMuj2LQIHQync16h3/cross_sec1.jpg?width=737&height=535

Click below to view working loading mechanism....

http://community.bobergarms.com/video/boberg-xr9-patentpending-feed-1

Plastikosmd
November 24, 2013, 06:27 PM
looks like a great little pistol

tarosean
November 24, 2013, 06:53 PM
I just scooped up another used G36 for 500, with N/S..

1200 for what?


It doesn't get you a mediocre polymer pistol, for sure...

gym
November 25, 2013, 12:27 AM
It's not for everyone. If you are well heeled and like to have the best of everything and the newest, then this would fall into that category. They make limited edition cars left and right, and guns. This is not that expensive when you look at 1500 dollar Kimbers and 5 thousand Wilsons. It's Rolex vs Timex, once again.
He only needs a few folks to buy his limited production pistols. I would love one. Considering a S&W pro series is $1000 dollars, then a hand made pistol I definatelly worth more if it does what it says.

sig228
November 25, 2013, 07:40 AM
Interesting link on the build. Looks like a 6+1. But thickness is still over 1". Sorry, thats a deal breaker for me. Price too. I will pass on this one.

http://community.bobergarms.com/profiles/blogs/building-the-xr45-micro-gap

HexHead
November 25, 2013, 08:32 AM
With all the people whining about the price, now I know why Colt doesn't make any new revolvers.

scramasax
November 25, 2013, 11:38 AM
I don't see a problem with the pricing. Boberg's guns are good quality. He has engineered a pistol design to maximize the ballistic performance of a cartridge in the smallest format possible with todays technology and materials. I don't own one but have shot several and have been pleased with the results. His pistols are a much better value than some others that people rave about.Now if he would just make one in 50GI or 460Rowland I might get excited.:D

ClickClickD'oh
November 25, 2013, 11:49 AM
I'm guess I'm seriously wondering what makes this about $500-$600 better than something like the 3.3" Springfield XDS .45ACP.

No massive recall.

Mainsail
November 25, 2013, 11:58 AM
With all the people whining about the price, now I know why Colt doesn't make any new revolvers.
Whining? I donít understand how someoneís dislike over something equals whining. By that logic youíre whining over someone elseís whiningÖ.

I need a gun that will dependably make a loud bang when I pull the trigger and then reload itself reliably. I need a gun that will put the hole reasonably close to where I have the sights aligned.

Does the Boberg do that? In all likelihood, it will. Does a Glock do that? Yes. Does a Springfield XDS do that? Yes. Will the Boberg do those things better, and will it do them ~$500 worth better? Probably not. Thatís Coltís problem- people didnít think their product was worth the extra money, especially when the quality fell. That, however, is a subject for a different thread.

Will Boberg sell them? Yes! Everyone is different and what blows my kilt up might not even sway yours- and vs versa. But if I donít believe the product value is in line with the price point (and not just for guns) then I will pass. Right now thatís how I see this product.

g_one
November 25, 2013, 12:02 PM
If someone would sell a magazine for the G36 with one less round in it and a flush baseplate I'd be all over it. (Yes I know there's a story or two about someone who engineered a fix by modifying existing mags). For me that giant rubber pad coming off the bottom of the gun makes it too big for pocket carry for me. The XDs is just a bit too big as well.

While I wouldn't pay $1,000+ for this one, that's only because my current financial situation doesn't really justify me spending $1,000 on anything. If I didn't live with a woman and her two kids and all my money didn't go to paying bills? Heck yeah I'd buy one.

hardluk1
November 26, 2013, 09:14 AM
No massive recall cause no massive sales and they simple fixed all the issues as they came up .

WardenWolf
November 26, 2013, 11:01 AM
Direct blowback?! Are they insane? This has been tried many, many times. Any time anyone tries to make a direct blowback pistol for anything larger than 9x18 Mak, it results in frame or slide cracking. Springs simply aren't strong enough to handle it, especially with such a short slide stroke, without it being so stiff that your average person wouldn't be able to rack it. Boberg can engineer all they want, but they cannot change the laws of physics. There is a century of precedent saying this won't work. Without a locking breech, full-power handguns will mechanically fail.

GBExpat
November 26, 2013, 11:25 AM
Whining? I donít understand how someoneís dislike over something equals whining. By that logic youíre whining over someone elseís whiningÖ.

Excellent point!

Unfortunately, the misused term has become very popular as a pejorative term in a lot of firearms forums.

CA Raider
November 26, 2013, 11:29 AM
can't see any point to owning a small 45 cal pistol.
why not get a 9mm or a 380 if you want a subcompact gun.

see www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

for muzzle velocities from short barrels.

CA R

DanTheFarmer
November 26, 2013, 07:14 PM
WardenWolf,

Direct blowback? The 9mm version uses a rotating barrel locking mechanism. I don't know how this action compares to the Berreta/Stoeger rotating barrel lock up.

I'm no Boberg expert but I don't think their pistols, in production or planned/possible, use a blowback action.

Dan

gym
November 26, 2013, 08:26 PM
There comes a point of diminishing returns in everything. It's not the price, it's the usefulness of a weapon that small when needed in a hurry. Plus enough rounds to make a fight of it with more than 1 bad guy. Guess I am old fashioned, my PM9 is as small as I want to go, with 2 or 3 spare mags in my pocket or on my belt. Or my XDS with the ability to mount a light and use an extended mag if need be.
That may be good for a back up gun, but too much money considering I can get a new Colt and a shield for near that.

Flashcube
November 27, 2013, 07:06 PM
Having personally seen the 9mm version pull cases out of the mag leaving the bullet behind, I'd really like know know how they overcome this with 45ACP. Heavy object at rest and all that... :scrutiny:

psyopspec
November 29, 2013, 09:21 PM
4+1?
6 + 1

http://community.bobergarms.com/photo/xr45-s-outline?context=latest

jeepnik
November 29, 2013, 09:49 PM
Okay, so I can now state that they are guilty of false advertising. It is not the smallest semi auto .45 auto. I just measured my AMT .45 Backup. It's shorter in length, shorter in height and thinner.

Yes, it does hold only 5 +1, but they didn't say it was the smallest holding 6 + 1, they said it was the smallest, and it ain't.

I'll stick with my Backup, until someone does come up with something "smaller".

Just did a Google search and found these specs for the AMT.

http://whichgun.com/pistols/view/amt-45-acp-backup

Definitely smaller in all dimensions.

giggitygiggity
November 30, 2013, 01:30 AM
Do some research... it's an overcomplicated design that results in a high price point and unreliable operation. I'll stick with something that is half the price, but reliable even if it's bigger. Perhaps an XDs.

stinger 327
November 30, 2013, 11:28 PM
For that kind of scratch I can pickup a sig 220, and continue to carry my shield.
And you can make that Sig P-220 the Equinox model at that price.

IdahoHk416
December 1, 2013, 09:26 AM
I don't have any experience with Boberg, and will probably never spend that kind of money on one, but I sure would love to see one in person. I think that they are a really neat design. It's nice to see true innovation once in awhile.

righteoushoot
December 1, 2013, 10:59 AM
6 + 1

http://community.bobergarms.com/photo/xr45-s-outline?context=latest
But Rembrandt's post (post #52) of the graphic shows 7 in the mag. If we can imply another +1, then that's 7 +1.

Your link shows a graphic with 6 in the mag, or a 6 +1 capacity.

Either way, I would definitely shoot one if I was offered.

If you enjoyed reading about "Coming soon..."Worlds smallest 45 auto"" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!