45 ACP Load Conflicts - New Reloader


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emptybrass
November 21, 2013, 08:41 PM
New at this...just getting started after spending almost a year gathering parts and pieces to start reloading. Successfully reloaded five rounds of 380 which fired and operated action with somewhat less kick than factory ammo - which is what I expected starting at the starting load in my Hornady 8th edition.

Here's the kicker:

So I reloaded 10 rounds of 45 ACP last night to the Hornady specs (since I am using Hornady #45137 FMJ SWC bullets) of 5.5 gr of Titegroup. A Titegroup load is not listed in my Lyman 49th edition. I just went back to my reloading bench to recheck my data before firing the rounds and I began to compare the two manuals with powders listed in both manuals and now I'm stopped in my tracks.

For instance, for the same bullet (185 gr FMJ SWC):

Lyman shows a charge range for Bullseye of 3.5 gr to 5.6 gr.
Hornady shows a charge range for Bullseye of 5.4 gr to 6.6 gr

Lyman shows a charge range for HS-6 of 6.6 gr to 9.1 gr.
Hornady shows a charge range for HS-6 of 8.7 gr to 10.1 gr

A couple of other powders show a similar spread in recommended loads.

Now, I don't know if my 5.5 gr of Titegroup is at the low end or in the middle. If the offset is the same as for Bullseye, then the starting load in the Hornady manual would be very near the max in the Lyman manual.

In the middle of this post, I went to the Hodgdon Load Data for this round and it gives a range of 5.0 gr to 5.5 gr = I am at the max!!!

So I have now officially learned to check multiple sources first, so I've already beat myself up on that one, so which do I believe? Do I find all possible data and use the lowest?

Forum - Help! What must I do do get a warm and fuzzy feeling before pulling the trigger on these rounds? Do I need to pull and restart?

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41 Mag
November 21, 2013, 08:52 PM
While I normally check out several different sources when I begin to develop a load, I also look to see what test firearm was used. In some cases you will find them using a universal test barrel, sometimes the barrel length is longer than what I am using, and sometimes they actually use a real firearm similar or even at times the same brands.

As for the load data being all over the place, your going to find that pretty often. In most cases I look at all of the starting loads and then I will average them between the highest I find and lowest I find. Normally I don't go to the top end so I then simply load for accuracy.

I know this probably isn't any consolation to what your looking at, but hey your on the right track and looking for answers, that is a BIG PLUS, also your rechecking your data as well which is another HUGE PLUS. Sometimes you have to simply pick a manual and go with it. I have close to a dozen of them and I haven't run into any issues with the starting loads out of any of them.

Hope that helps.

sexybeast
November 21, 2013, 08:54 PM
5.5gr of titegroup is max for a 185gr jacketed bullet in 45acp. Not a good habit for a beginner!

Starting load is 5.0gr. Start around that, shoot em, and work up if you feel the need.

Walkalong
November 22, 2013, 07:36 AM
Agreed. Start low and work up. :)

Reloadron
November 22, 2013, 11:50 AM
Here is part of the problem:

For instance, for the same bullet (185 gr FMJ SWC):

Lyman shows a charge range for Bullseye of 3.5 gr to 5.6 gr.
Hornady shows a charge range for Bullseye of 5.4 gr to 6.6 gr

Lyman shows a charge range for HS-6 of 6.6 gr to 9.1 gr.
Hornady shows a charge range for HS-6 of 8.7 gr to 10.1 gr

Are they really the same bullet? Your bullet is a Hornady 185 grain SWC Hornady #45137. However, the Lyman manual states that their 185 grain jacketed SWC is actually a Remington bullet. Both manuals show a COL their data is based on of 1.135".

I don't have those bullets but along the same lines I have two 45 ACP bullets and both are 230 grain JHP bullets.

http://www.bearblain.com/images/Speer%20Hornady%2045%20ACP.png

The 230 grain Speer Gold Dot comes along about 0.020 longer than the Hornady XTP. Both 230 grain, .451" diameter, JHP bullets and yet not the same.

Using HS-6 as the example powder. My Speer #12 manual based on a case trim of 0.888" and a COL of 1.2" gives a range of 7.2 to 8.0 grains of powder (for their bullet). The nice people at Hornady (Hornady 9th edition manual) suggest a case trim of of 0.893 and a COL of 1.210" gives a range of 6.7 to 8.2 grains of the same HS-6 powder.

In reality the bullets are not the same and are treated accordingly. Both are 230 grain JHP and that is as close as they get.

You are loading Hornady bullets so I would start low and work up from the Hornady manual for the bullet you have.

Just My Take....
Ron

PJSprog
November 22, 2013, 02:01 PM
A good place to start would be to compare the data from the bullet mfr to the data from the powder mfr., not necessarily from yet another (third party) manual. It's always good to have several references, but the info from the parties involved will be most relevant to your load.

...and as Ron said, be sure you are comparing apples to apples with components.

Be safe and enjoy, and welcome to reloading!

emptybrass
November 22, 2013, 02:06 PM
Good stuff folks...thanks. Yea, Reloadron, the Hornady book shows 5.5 to to 6.1 for FMJ SWC with their bullet and the Hodgdon data site shows 5.0 to 5.5 for a HDY JSWC, which I assume is the same bullet. I'll pull them and reload at 5.0. I'm using these for plinking loads, so if it racks the gun and leaves a hole in the target, I'm good to go. I use factory stuff for SD.

Thanks for your help.

jimbob123
November 22, 2013, 11:46 PM
rather than pull them set aside until you do a work up of the powder bullet combo.your loads might be safe and easier to shoot them pull them.your workup will will give you good idea if loads are good to go or hot.JIMBOB123

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