TacCon drop in bump trigger group


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Collector0311
November 22, 2013, 02:25 PM
Forgive me if this link is faulty as I copied it from my Facebook page, a friend brought it to my attention.
I've always seen this done from belt loops to buttstocks there's always a method to bump fire. But this is the first select fire drop in inertia resetting trigger group that I've seen (I'm probably wrong)
My first thoughts were "Yes." And "How much?"
But when I got thinking I had some questions
The first being, not every AR out there is built to take this kind of abuse. So what type of platforms should stay away from a product like this? I run an LMT CQB16 upper and LMT Defender2000 lower. I think it could hang...?
Second, does this type of thing attract unnecessary attention and explanation on my local ranges that welcome FA?
Lastly, how well could one expect a product like this to last reliably? I know that's a very broad question, but anyone with experience in the break down of trigger components is welcome to tackle it!
I'm just really curious about this system and it's (seemingly reasonable) pricetag around $500.
Oh, but I'd probably want one in my Zastava first haha
http://gunssavelives.net/gear/taccon-set-to-release-bump-fire-style-drop-in-trigger-for-ar-15-that-gets-close-to-legal-full-auto/

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TIMC
November 22, 2013, 06:30 PM
For $500 they can keep that ammo wasting trigger, I can already bump fire with what it has on it if the mood strikes. Now put them up for $250-$300 I may bite.

yzguy87
November 22, 2013, 10:28 PM
If it's reliable, works well and the ATF doesn't decide to take it away the I would be interested in one. I've always wanted to shoot full auto. Also the semi auto mode is supposed to be a 4 lb or so trigger pull. If this is true then that would be a big improvement over standard AR triggers.

Jackal
November 23, 2013, 12:11 AM
If is accurately reproduced full auto fire, legally I'd pay at most $200 for it.

happygeek
November 23, 2013, 12:30 AM
I'd love to see a slow-mo cutaway video showing how the trigger functions.

Question: if the bump fire stock has been around as long as it has, and this is coming to market, and no one has used one of these devices to "spray fire all over the place, killing as many people as possible in the least amount of time possible" (paraphrasing the VPC) ... what's the logical reason for 86 Hughes, and the 34 NFA for that matter?

Jackal
November 23, 2013, 01:45 AM
what's the logical reason for 86 Hughes, and the 34 NFA for that matter?

Shhh, the anti's will hear you. The plain, simple logic will melt their brain and cause them to require stronger depression meds.

mastiffhound
November 23, 2013, 02:04 AM
The gents on M4C (the other forum I'm a member of) are pretty much in agreement (including myself) that the $500 this trigger costs would be money better spent on other things like ammo, training, optics, another gun, or proven triggers by manufacturers like Geissele, Chip McCormick, JP Enterprise, or ALG Defense (now owned by Geissele).

I can get 2 Geissele SSA triggers and 1 ALG Defense ACT Trigger with change left over for the $500 that TacCon wants. Is it $290 better than a Geissle SSA? Some have said that they would give it a try if it cost around the same as a Geissele, not me. Those other companies have built a solid reputation for customer service, quality, and reliability over years and years. You can't get that overnight just because you say yours is better.

The "Well it's !NEW!" argument doesn't work for me either. I'm very wary of new products charging more than twice as much as a very well established and proven competitor. Will it sell? Maybe, probably, who knows? It could turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. The problem is 99.99999% of those ways to slice bread have been figured out. As I said in a post on M4C, I guess I'm just practical to a fault. This trigger has to be more than 2x better than a Geissele SSA, otherwise the cost just can't be justified in my mind.

jagdpanzer347
November 23, 2013, 10:20 AM
I'd rather spend the money on an Aimpoint Pro and a high quality sling.

C-grunt
November 23, 2013, 10:37 AM
Having some experience with auto rifles has led me to believe for the most part they are useless.

However a HK MR556, this trigger and a bipod could be a decent support weapon like the M27 IAR.

Collector0311
November 23, 2013, 06:02 PM
I appreciate the replies fellas, seems to be more interest or disinterest than addresses to the OP.
There's a reason I left practicality out of the question, because there isn't any practicality!
If you're worried about wasting ammo or funding an optic then by all means, go for it!
I've got my ammo and my optics and I'm just curious about this product. And again, I prefer the select fire option.
I've got about as close to our IAR's as I could get without an HK platform, I went LMT heavy barrel instead.
It's fitted with a TrijiconACOG-RCO and my old issued gripod I managed to score.
So again, my thoughts are that with milled receivers and a heavy barrel this rifle would do fine running the Fun Switch on occasion. Thoughts?

C-grunt
November 23, 2013, 06:47 PM
I think it would be fun. But a bit too expensive for my taste currently.

But I do think a heavy barreled, bipod supported rifle with this trigger would be a good support weapon. Being a 03 series you know that full auto works well off a bipod.

yzguy87
November 23, 2013, 06:50 PM
"If you're worried about wasting ammo or funding an optic then by all means, go for it!
I've got my ammo and my optics and I'm just curious about this product. And again, I prefer the select fire option."

I'm with ya! Ive always wanted a happy switch too!:evil:

Sam1911
November 23, 2013, 07:28 PM
I've always seen this done from belt loops to buttstocks there's always a method to bump fire. But this is the first select fire drop in inertia resetting trigger group that I've seen (I'm probably wrong)
The difference here seems to be that instead of a silly "from the hip" noise-and-fury way to goof off and get your jollies blasting ammo, this fire control group seems to allow the weapon to be operated more or less exactly like an M-16 or M-4. Shoulder-mounted rifle, aimed fire, getting good and useful hits with practice.

It may be 99% "as good as" a full-auto trigger group. (It may not, of course, but it appears to have the potential.)

The first being, not every AR out there is built to take this kind of abuse. Really? Are there AR-15s that are clearly not built to be able to handle rapid firing? Seems to me most are touting "mil-spec" or better these days, and except perhaps for the polymer guns, I'd really be surprised if this created any more appreciable wear on the critical parts of an AR than the same number of rounds fired semi-auto.

In other words, a good AR is built just like a good M-16 or M-4, so what problems do you think you'll see?

So what type of platforms should stay away from a product like this? I run an LMT CQB16 upper and LMT Defender2000 lower. I think it could hang...?
An LMT? Yeah, an LMT can handle being run full-auto. No problem there.

Second, does this type of thing attract unnecessary attention and explanation on my local ranges that welcome FA?
If the range already allows full-auto? No. And you can always show them the letter if there happens to be any question.

Now, if your range is normally not accommodating to full-auto fire then the fact that this isn't technically a regulated "machine gun" probably isn't going to get the welcome mat rolled out.

At my own range, this would need to be brought up with our board. Currently we do allow full-auto if the member has been approved by the special-use committee as proving competence and safety to lawfully use automatic weapons. However, bump-firing is specifically prohibited due to our particular range configuration and the general less-controlled nature of what 99% of folks are doing when they "bump-fire." This type of device will need to be brought into the same "special use" rules as full-autos.

Lastly, how well could one expect a product like this to last reliably? I know that's a very broad question, but anyone with experience in the break down of trigger components is welcome to tackle it!
That's all going to come down to specifics of how the fire control group is made. Considering how automatic triggers work, and the more complex clockwork "burst" systems work, there is no reason at all to assume this CAN'T be as durable as your firearm itself. Anything can be made badly, or well. For $500, it had better be made VERY well.

...

Now, as to "ammo-wasting" triggers being useless, I have to counter with this: The biggest reason folks think the inane things they do about full-auto fire is lack of experience with it. And that works both ways. Full-auto fire is FAR less effective, in many instances, than the movies have convinced us it is, and than popular belief (even among some gun guys) says. However, it IS effective in several very specific uses, and there is no legitimate reason that those uses should not be practiced and understood by a well-rounded rifleman.

For $500, some folks will buy this to stand on the line and dump mag after mag with a big dumb grin on their faces until the drool forms a puddle at their feet. Yay.

But others -- hopefully many, many others -- will use them to develop the skills of (or continue to practice the skills they were taught as) an automatic rifleman or practical automatic carbine user (This would appear to be the group the manufacturer is aiming at with their promotional video.)

Remember, the second amendment isn't about hunting, and the skills and tools of the warrior should belong to all free men.

mtrmn
November 23, 2013, 07:49 PM
I think mastiffhound missed the main attraction for this trigger. Nobody's saying it's a trigger like all those high-end ones - It's basically a legal full auto.
I'd love to have one, but my family will suffer because I'd spend our grocery money on ammo. I bet the ATF will come along soon and say we can't be playing with them because somebody might lose an eye. Anyone who disagrees may just have to be re-educated in one of those camps........

Collector0311
November 23, 2013, 09:11 PM
Hey Sam, thanks for that thorough reply!
Some of the platforms I had in mind were the polymer that you mentioned, but also any garage budget builds that are clearly built to perhaps not quite as high a quality as HK lets say.
Now first let me clarify because I don't think I did well enough. I don't mean to belittle the budget rifle in any capacity, I think the life of the rifles are comparable.
What I was thinking, had more to do with the heat brought on by that amount of firing (which I have extensive experience with as I'm less than a year out of USMC infantry) as well as any rifle with a non FA rated bolt carrier. It's a lot of abuse on rifles any way you cut it.
As for the range, I definitely will test the water over there before showing up and buddy rushing down the KD range!
The level of practicality I was referring to had more to do with the scenarios this bump trigger would see (ranges, internet videos, etc)
I can absolutely appreciate the well placed application of automatic weapons, otherwise we would not be having this conversation haha

Justin
November 24, 2013, 11:54 AM
Information on other forums basically states that for this thing to work properly, there's kind of a sweet spot for the amount of weight you apply to the trigger.

One person compared it to shooting the "not-quite" full-auto triggers available for paintball guns.

While I think this thing is a neat idea, I have the same concerns for it that I do with all other methods of bump fire. Namely, how well does it actually work?

There's a world of difference between having something because you want a functional and effective rifle, and because you want to stand on the line on a sunny Saturday afternoon and do a mag dump for grins.

Basically, I'm left with the same question I have for all other such devices: How well does this thing work when shooting from unorthodox field positions?

Show me that it runs when shooting from rollover prone, supine, braced against a barrier, etc. and then I'll consider this to be something other than a gimmick.

CZ223
November 24, 2013, 02:40 PM
will cost you between 10 and 25 thousand dollars if the prices on Gun broker are correct. Along with the purchase price, you will have to go through the whole Class 3 background check and, pay an extra $200 to the federal government for allowing you to own said firearm. If this thing works as advertised, and is legal to own, it would allow a lot of us who can not afford a Class 3 weapon to have something that is darn close. I won't buy a bump fire stock but I might buy this. The guy in the video seems to be able to control his fire much better than any I have seen do with a bump fire stock.

Collector0311
November 24, 2013, 07:43 PM
Justin, I was having the same thoughts.
It looks like on this platform, instead of "trigger slapping" an exceedingly light trigger like on some nonFA paintball guns, this has a physical trigger reset that utilizes the inertia of the bolt to reset it. Then as you maintain rearward trigger pressure, the trigger resets even as you pull. That way once it is reset, you're complying with the action of "one round for every pull of the trigger"
At least that's how I see it...

aubie515
November 24, 2013, 08:24 PM
Some people crack me up complaining about how expensive it is...It's only a rumor at MSRP $500.

I see so many people that buy everything picatinny to attach to their ARs that if you totalled up the money spent, would probably exceed this trigger.

Comparing it to real FA...I'd say $500 is a steal. In addition, you wouldn't need to pay stamp or wait an eternity to get approval.

TIMC
November 24, 2013, 08:38 PM
Some people crack me up complaining about how expensive it is...It's only a rumor at MSRP $500.

I see so many people that buy everything picatinny to attach to their ARs that if you totalled up the money spent, would probably exceed this trigger.

Comparing it to real FA...I'd say $500 is a steal. In addition, you wouldn't need to pay stamp or wait an eternity to get approval.

Look forward to your range report on the new trigger, sounds like you'll be getting one. ;)

Magnuumpwr
November 24, 2013, 08:45 PM
CZ223, have you seen the promotional video for the Bump-fire stock? The rounds fired are called before firing. With that said, the guy in the Tac-con video most likely had extra practice to learn the 'sweet' spot for this trigger. Personally with a bump-fire on my AK can, after lots of practice, fire controlled burst and keep 30 rds in a torso silhouette target at 100 yds. Before buying one of the Tac-Con triggers, I will bide my time. Wait awhile to see if any short comings are found.

yzguy87
November 25, 2013, 12:35 AM
If this works like Collector0311 states in post 18, then it sounds a lot like the response trigger from Tippmann. I used to play a lot of paintball and the response trigger was my favorite trigger to use. I played a lot of woods ball and had no problem finding the "sweet spot" on the response trigger while running through the woods adrenalin rushed.

If the Taccon trigger has the same feel and is reliable then it will be very user friendly and IMO worth the extra $$$ for those who've wanted to play with full auto and can't afford the cost of the real deal.

Robert
November 25, 2013, 09:12 AM
Meh, for the rumored price of $500 I can buy a really nice standard trigger and a bunch of ammo and be able to put each of those rounds right were I want them. Don't get me wrong, FA is fun and has its place, but this is nothing more than yet another gimmick, at least to me.

Collector0311
November 25, 2013, 09:37 AM
One thing I'm not, is an impulse buyer.
You won't find me on any waiting lists for the next best thing.
But you'll find me searching for reviews the next few months.
I've already got a great two stage trigger and plenty of ammo. Now it's just waiting to see how this product plays out. And whether it functions as well as it's shown in the video.

roklok
November 25, 2013, 07:35 PM
I recently received BATF approval on a prototype dual mode AR-15 trigger of my design. Has a selector, one position is normal semi-auto mode, the other is a dual fire mode, essentially a two shot burst, which fires a round with trigger pull and trigger release. Here is a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8FQLLawI64

Sorry, I am not running around looking all "tactical" This video shows my prototype firing 25 rounds of .22 LR out of a CMMG upper in approximately 3 seconds. More videos to follow.

Magnuumpwr
November 25, 2013, 11:18 PM
Roklok, I have a couple short questions for you. How many attempts before that faultless run? Was that the first attempt?

mastiffhound
November 26, 2013, 01:23 AM
aubie515

Some people crack me up complaining about how expensive it is...It's only a rumor at MSRP $500.

I see so many people that buy everything picatinny to attach to their ARs that if you totalled up the money spent, would probably exceed this trigger.

Comparing it to real FA...I'd say $500 is a steal. In addition, you wouldn't need to pay stamp or wait an eternity to get approval.

I look at it like the way the Army showed the M14. They used highly trained guys to showcase the M14 on full auto but when it got to troops they found it to be very uncontrollable. Make a video with a few guys that are extensively trained is a very old trick. I've watched the video a few times now and it looks like they took the trigger slap from an AK and added a very light pull weight.

I've watched guys shoot very fast with triggers that don't need extra parts that can fail. Yes Jerry Miculek is an example but I've seen plenty of guys nobody has ever heard of too. This is why it's looked at with suspicion and uselessness. With training you won't need this trigger. I didn't miss the point, no point exists. I'd much rather have the extra ammo or training that I got with the money I saved by going with a Geissele (my God, that's a sentence that has never been written I'm sure!).

As far as mall ninjas with a bunch of chinese knock-off crap on their rifles, yeah they will probably buy it. Probably because they saved so much money on those knock off parts.

I don't see a Troy, Midwest Ind., or Daniel Defense rail, an excellent trigger from Geissele, a good light from someone like Inforce, a stock from Magpul or B5, and a better grip than the standard A2 from so many companies as foolish investments. Of course you can go past $500 very easily with quality parts.

Did I go past $500? Yes, but all of the stuff I added gave me better purchase on the pistol grip, more length on the handguard for better control, a great trigger, a very good light for HD or night time predator interdiction (I live in the country), and a rock solid stock that isn't slipping and sliding all over the place. My rifles are tools not toys. With practice and training you can learn to shoot very very fast. There is no comparison to full auto, it either is or isn't.

As far as $500 goes, this is one part. Not one proven, reliable, well built part that I got for my AR cost that much alone. I'm not complaining about the price, that would mean I want or plan on purchasing it. My guess is this is another business/marketing ploy to see if a $500 starting point is acceptable to consumers. If enough people say "no way, not for that price" then they may lower the introductory asking price. It's just another trick in advertising to "leak" an item to see what kind of "buzz" or lack thereof it gets.

Ranger Roberts
November 26, 2013, 03:21 PM
This has Akins Accelerator written all over it. How long did it take the BATF to change their mind on that? About 2 years IIRC?

In my opinion it's a pretty cool product though. Like others have said, not everyone has desire or means to jump into the world of full auto, heck my NFA items cost more than most of my other guns combined. It's your money, it's your gun, if you want to buy it, I say go for it.

To the OP's questions: I think your AR would have no problem handling this. It will raise a few eyebrows at the range if they don't allow FA or any rapid firing for that matter. I would carry the letter from the BATF with you just in case you come under a lot of scrutiny. As far as how long it will last? For $500... it better last a long time!

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