Handgun sale/pruchase predicament...


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possenti
March 27, 2004, 10:03 PM
A young friend of mine who just turned 21 took the CCW class with a group of co-workers that I got to go also. He borrowed my HS2000 in 9mm (1st gen.), which I had him test-fire last week before the test. We shot at a mannequein (sp?) at the 7yd. CCW test distance, and on the first mag, he totally erased its face. He said it was the most accurate pistol he ever shot. Every round went exactly were he wanted it to. He's fallen madly in love with my gun, and won't return it.

He asked to buy it, and I go buy another one. I explained to him that Intrac no longer markets/carries this model, as it is now sold by Springfield Armory as the "XD" series. I suggested that he buy the XD, but he refuses to do that because he likes guns with "no papers", and he knows that my HS has been well taken care of. He's convinced THIS is the gun for him. I told him I got a deal from an FFL friend on the HS at $220. The XD's run about $450 now. He insists on paying me that much for the HS.

I don't want to gouge the kid, but if I sell him the HS, I'd certainly like another one, and the XD is the only replacement. I would consider buying something of lesser value to make my buddy a better deal if it was comparable to the HS, but nothing really interests me at this point.

What should I do?

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Zundfolge
March 27, 2004, 10:09 PM
Take his money.

Sure on paper its not worth that much, but if he's extremely confident with it then its worth it.

As long as he knows that on paper he's not getting a good deal but is still all jazzed to go through with it then you're not ripping him of our gouging him.

Josey
March 27, 2004, 10:20 PM
Take his money. Get a couple of holsters and give him one and a box of ammunition. I have had this happen to me. Make certain everybody is happy and go on.

possenti
March 27, 2004, 10:44 PM
BTW - Why DID the HS/XD jump so much in price when Springfield started carrying it?

I know the extractor is "beefed up", and some cosmetics were changed, but is it really just the name?

IMO - This great gun is still worth every penny - I'm just wonderin'...

Zundfolge
March 27, 2004, 11:06 PM
I suspect the Springfield name has much more caché then the Croatian name.


There are a lot of people who won't buy something unless its "made in 'merica" ... but will look the other way and buy it anyway if its got a 'merican name :rolleyes:


I like the XDs but I think it would be cooler to have one of the pre-Springfield ones

Old Fuff
March 27, 2004, 11:52 PM
First of all I think this young man has a lot of guts demanding that you sell him your gun after you were good enough to let him borrow it.

Second; I think a big part of the attraction is that he wants an "unpapered" gun, and I would ask myself why?

I would first decide if I wanted to sell the gun at all, and under the circumstances I would make sure that I got enough money to buy the replacement of my choice - regardless of cost. If he doesn't like the price he can return YOUR gun.

Last but not least, I would insist on a signed bill-of-sale.

And no, I wouldn't give him any ammunition, holster, etc. He isn't doing you any favors.

BluesBear
March 28, 2004, 12:03 AM
I was going to cover all the points but I see Old Fuff has not only beaten me to it while I was composing and spell checking, but also said it better than I could have.

In other words I agree with Fuff 100%.

1911Tuner
March 28, 2004, 12:10 AM
I'm with Fuff on this one. I like unpapered guns too, but mainly because it saves me the hassle of goin' to downtown Winston-Salem to the Hall of Justice to get a permit, and when I "horsetrade" with friends and family,
they all understand this...but they still know I'm not legally forbidden to possess a gun.

The young man in question may have no real reason for his preference,
other than one similar to mine...but there may be a legal reason that
he can't get a permit and buy from a dealer...and no...he may not admit to
it.

If there IS a legal reason that he can't pass the background checks required to obtain a permit, and you sell the gun to him...or even loan it to him...you could be setting yourself up for a world of trouble.

If you KNOW without doubt that he's legally able to own or possess, then
it's your call. I'd go pay the 2 or 3 dollar fee to access his records to be on
the safe side, though.

Just my 2% of a buck...

Tuner

Nick1911
March 28, 2004, 12:21 AM
I'd go pay the 2 or 3 dollar fee to access his records to be on the safe side, though.

hmm? You can ensure that somebody you're going to sell a gun to in a private transaction has a clean slate? I was un-aware of this. Do you go to a gun shop or something?

Nick

1911Tuner
March 28, 2004, 12:31 AM
Nick asked:

hmm? You can ensure that somebody you're going to sell a gun to in a private transaction has a clean slate?

You go to the courthouse in the county of his residence and ask for his court record. It's public domain. If he lived in another county, go to that one. This doesn't access medical records, which under certain circumstances can be legal reason to bar ownership. Drug addict...
Commitment for treatment of certain mental health issues...Suicide attempt...Schitzophrenia, etc.

20 years ago, it wasn't an issue. A private transaction was just that. It's
a different world now, though...and one must be CAREFUL who he sells or loans a gun to...handgun OR long gun.

Luck!

Tuner

Lobotomy Boy
March 28, 2004, 01:39 AM
If the kid was able to get his CCW permit, he should be able to pass any background check. It sounds like he is just a typical idiot. It seems like being 21-years-old and being a dumb-@$$ go hand in hand. It is your duty to seperate a fool from his money--with any luck the fool will learn enough to be less of a fool in the future. Sell him your gun for $450, go to Sportsman's Warehouse and buy an XD for $399, and by the time you pay taxes, you should have a gun that is worth considerably more than your present gun, at least on paper, and enough money left over for a couple of Wally World value packs.

uglymofo
March 28, 2004, 02:00 AM
Old Fuff, et. al., are all dead balls on. Treat yourself well, and take your time finding the perfect replacement. Then go to this ungrateful "friend" and get what's due. I'd even tack on a service charge for the time and trouble you have to go through. This guy is no friend. If you don't see it that way, look at it this way--he's looking out for his interests, and yours aren't even a consideration.

If you're lucky, your replacement will function as dependably as the gun you've "lost".

arinvolvo
March 28, 2004, 02:00 AM
If he likes the gun so much, let him pay 500 for it.

Then sell him the "special" ammo for it...for a buck a round.
:rolleyes:

liliysdad
March 28, 2004, 03:23 AM
I agree its a bit odd....but I like guns without a paper trail as well. I do not own a single gun I own..wink wink....and never will.

Majic
March 28, 2004, 05:33 AM
To be honest I wouldn't sell him nothing since he is making demands of property that doesn't belong to him. That shows total lack of respect for you even after you have just provided a friendly hand to help him out. Go retrieve your pistol and let him learn to shop like the rest of us.
He sounds like so many of the kids today. It will be his way or no way. It's time for him to grow up and learn you can't have everything you want.

possenti
March 28, 2004, 08:45 AM
It was tounge-in-cheek when I said that my buddy "refuses" to give the gun back to me. It's just that he likes the gun a lot, which I totally understand. He's not being an ingrate, or anything like that.

I know this kid and his family quite well. He's like a little brother to me. Besides, he did take the CCW class - which I paid for him for his 21st birthday. His record is as pure as the driven snow. He just wants a "paperless" gun, which I can also understand.

All kidding aside, he did offer the gun back, but asked what I would take for it. The whole purpose of my original question was to make sure I didn't rip him off. I explained the HS/XD situation to him, and he is still willing to deal.

-And I did throw in a holster too.

possenti
March 28, 2004, 08:53 AM
It was tounge-in-cheek when I said that my buddy "refuses" to give the gun back to me. It's just that he likes the gun a lot, which I totally understand. He's not being an ingrate, or anything like that.

I know this kid and his family quite well. He's like a little brother to me. Besides, he did take the CCW class - which I paid for him for his 21st birthday. His record is as pure as the driven snow. He just wants a "paperless" gun, which I can also understand.

All kidding aside, he did offer the gun back, but asked what I would take for it. The whole purpose of my original question was to make sure I didn't rip him off. I explained the HS/XD situation to him, and he is still willing to deal.

-And I did throw in a holster too.

1911Tuner
March 28, 2004, 08:56 AM
It was tounge-in-cheek when I said that my buddy "refuses" to give the gun back to me

Ah! Okay. I've done that. A pal lets me hold one to do a little tune-up
on, and of course, I take it for a test run.(Dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it.) I get home and call him..."Well, you can't have it back. This pistol
is really mine, and you've just been takin' care of it for me." :D

If you know the lad well, and have no reservations, it's your call on lettin' him have it. FWIW...I've "lost" more than a few good pistols in just that way. One guy bugged me for 5 years until I caved in and finally sold it to him.:rolleyes: Now I could kick myself. It was an early 60s LW Commander.

Luck!

Tuner

Lobotomy Boy
March 28, 2004, 10:17 AM
My uncle collected guns but health issues kept him from shooting at all. As a result, his son had access to pretty much any gun you could imagine. He was on odd kid, a good-hearted fellow who suffered from a severe case of HUHA (Head Up His @$$) syndrome. He'd leave guns in my car or pickup and forget about them for years at a time while he moved on to some other gun. Eventually they all found their ways back to their proper owner, but in the meantime I had all sorts of great guns to shoot. I never felt guilty about it because they knew I had the guns and could get them any time they wanted them. The way I saw it, it was sort of like gun foster care. If I hadn't had them, they likely would have been rusting away in a gun case behind the seat of my cousins pickup, a fate suffered by some fine guns, like a beautiful Colt Woodsman, one of the few guns that my cousin never forgot in my vehicle.

sundance43.5
March 28, 2004, 10:49 AM
HS2000's are not that hard to get. There have been 2 of them for sale on HS2000/XD talk in the last couple of weeks.

You could sell the kid the HS for $450, buy another HS for $300, and buy plenty of ammo and a couple of holsters.

Chris

ksnecktieman
March 28, 2004, 11:12 AM
Love is beautiful.

Tell him you love it TOO!

Tell him you will not sell it for fair market value. Price it as high as you wish. He will choose to buy it or not. If he buys it your conscience should be clear. A deal has nothing to do with anyone else's opinion of value, only two of you are involved in this deal. It is your pistol, and you are happy with it. You may have a long search to find one you like as much.

Waxed Canvas
March 28, 2004, 11:18 AM
Take the 450.00 dude.

Mr. Mysterious
March 28, 2004, 12:00 PM
Sell for $450...

I'm glad that you weren't seious about him refusing to give it back. That really got my blood cooking.

Marshall
March 28, 2004, 12:09 PM
Interesting.

I make decisions like this based on personal morals. If I don't feel comfortable doing what someone is asking of me, I don't do it. Sometimes it happens to be in my best interest, sometimes it's in what would be someone else's best interest. Regardless, the right thing is usually in everyones best interest. At the end of the day I never have to look back or second guess myself. If your dilemma is a moral issue, follow your gut and do what you believe is best. Integrity can't be bought but, it can be sold.



;)

Majic
March 28, 2004, 03:21 PM
With the clarification I see I misread what was being said. Now to solve the problem he still needs to learn. You should get your pistol back if you really like it and then help him find one of his own. You had to shop for yours so why give him the easy way out and then you have to shop all over for another one. If he likes firearms he's going to have to learn how to shop for them. Now is as good a time as ever to teach him the ropes.

andrew17
March 29, 2004, 04:02 PM
I'd let him down easy, I'd say, "I dont really want to sell this one but, I saw one in the gun trader or whatever the other day". help point him in the right direction. Maybe find a few examples to give him. Help him with his first handgun.

Jim PHL
March 29, 2004, 06:58 PM
If you do the deal, make sure you get your TOTAL COSTS of a new XD covered. (If they sell in your area for $450, get $500 to cover tax, paperwork, etc.) No need to try and 'get over' on a buddy but doing him the favor shouldn't end up costing you anything either. An HS2000 is not a collectors piece. It's not like 1911Tuner losing a gun that had a ton of style, probably some sentimental value and, if not now, maybe eventually, some "collectability".

As long as he is what you say he is, don't read too much into it. Look at it in basic terms: Would you trade a used HS2000 for a brand new XD9? I would.

goon
March 29, 2004, 09:11 PM
We all like the idea of unpapered guns, but buying a first gun is something that everyone needs to go through.
My dad went with me for mine and helped me fill out all the paperwork and stuff. It was just better to have someone with me the first time to sort of help walk me though the whole thing.
I would keep the gun and help him find another.

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