.40 S&W 180 plated with W231/HP-38, conflicting data


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1KPerDay
November 26, 2013, 01:56 PM
Lyman's 49th says 175(180) Lead, 5.8 grains max W231 (max for JHP is 5.6).

Hornady says 180 lead 5.7 max.

Hodgdon says 180 Berry's plated 5.1 max.

Berry's says use lead data, right?

Sooo..... :confused:

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Blue68f100
November 26, 2013, 02:07 PM
Berry's is normally mid point jacketed as max. But if load books list the plated use it. Plated normally fall some where in between lead and jacketed.

sexybeast
November 26, 2013, 02:12 PM
What are you trying to do? Accuracy or simply to push them hard.
I use 4.6gr of 231 behind a 180gr Rainier and its accurate.
If you are interested in pushing them I suggest you use FMJ.

1KPerDay
November 26, 2013, 02:31 PM
Accurate. Nothing I've tried up to this point has made these bullets shoot worth a darn. See my other thread for more info. I generally load close to starting loads and have had great results with other bullets, including Berry's 155 HBRN, MBC 140 and 180, and Berry's 180RNFP. These are Berry's 180 FP and for some reason none of my usually accurate loads are printing worth diddly.

gahunter12
November 26, 2013, 02:39 PM
Check Hodgdons load data site out. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp. You will notice they are way different than what you found in the Lyman 49th. If you will look at the Lyman 49th intro page for .40S&W you will notice at the bottom of the page Lyman used a test barrel with a bore diameter of .401", not .400". This is one reason the data in Lyman's 49th is higher. Notice on Hdgdon's site they give the following data

Berry's 180gr: Min=4.4gr, Max=5.1gr OAL=1.125"
Horn XTP 180gr: Min=4.1gr, Max=5.0gr OAL=1.125"

I usually use Hodgdon's data from this site when using Hodgdon, Win, or IMR powders. This is why it always good to have multiple sources, and read the intros, and test factors for the given load data.

gahunter12
November 26, 2013, 02:47 PM
I had good luck with 180gr Berry's RSFP at 4.4gr of W231, but found 3.8gr of WST to really work well for me, and was softer shooting, plus cleaner. For years 4.4gr of W231/HP38 was my go to load with 180gr Berry's or XTreme RSFP pills.

sexybeast
November 26, 2013, 02:48 PM
I like using the powder manufacturers data too.
What kind of gun are you shooting these from? I prefer Rainier's over Berrys but I know some who really like Berrys. I like oversize [.402] lead most.

Blue68f100
November 26, 2013, 02:56 PM
Now Berry's normally come a little over size when compared to a jacketed round. Normally 0.0005"-0.001" .So if your using the LFCD by chance it may be resizing the bullet which will greatly impact accuracy.

bds
November 26, 2013, 02:59 PM
Berry's says use lead data, right?
No. Rainier Ballistics says to use lead load data for their bullets - http://www.rainierballistics.com/loaddata.php

Berry's MFG says to use low-to-mid range jacketed load data but Hodgdon (BERB), Accurate (BRY) and Ramshot (BRY) recently published plated load data specific to Berry's plated bullets and I would use the newly tested published load data for Berry's plated bullets - http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

.40 S&W 180 plated with W231/HP-38, conflicting data
Lyman #49 used .401" groove diameter test barrel for 40S&W instead of more typical .400" and I find their max loads higher than powder manufacturers' published load data. If your barrel's groove diameter is .401", I would use Lyman #49 loads but if it is more typical .400" I would use more conservative load data.

gahunter12
November 26, 2013, 03:36 PM
I like using the powder manufacturers data too.
What kind of gun are you shooting these from? I prefer Rainier's over Berrys but I know some who really like Berrys. I like oversize [.402] lead most.


These loads are for a Glock 35 Gen3. I had pretty good luck with Rainier myself. They were fairly accurate, but I like the RSFP of Berry's, and XTreme a little better for function. I can set the OAL out a little further, and gives me 100% reliability for matches. I picked up about 6k Rainier's back in March for $90/k from a Local FFL, and decided to use them for practice, and keep my Berry's for matches.

1KPerDay
November 26, 2013, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the explanation and info, guys. I'm shooting a Glock 23 with Storm Lake barrel, and a Taurus PT101.

1KPerDay
December 9, 2013, 11:28 AM
Here's another good one...
.40 S&W 155 grain XTP, with Power Pistol:

Hornady says 6.2 grains start, max of 8.6.

Lee says start 7.9 (compressed), :eek: max of 9.0 (compressed).

bds
December 9, 2013, 12:55 PM
Since chamber pressure testing equipment/components vary even for the same bullet weight (test barrel length, groove diameter of test barrel, leade length/free bore of test barrel, case wall thickness, primer flash intensity/duration, bullet length/nose profile, bearing surface length, bullet seat depth, etc.), I think we will continue to see variations in the published load data.

It would be ideal to reload with the same exact components as the published load data so to duplicate the same chamber pressures with same seating depth, intensity/durarion of primer ignition, etc. using new/verified once-fired brass but often this is not possible and we must conduct our load development/powder work up with whatever components we have on hand.

Due to these reasons, I think if a reloader uses mixed range pick up brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass, use of more conservative published load data would be adviseable for the initial powder work up/load development especially for 40S&W and faster burn rate powders.

Nothing I've tried up to this point has made these bullets shoot worth a darn.
I know this may be off topic and I may pursue further discussion on a different thread, but you have been puzzled by varying degrees of accuracy with Berry's 180 gr plated bullet. I have been pondering and perhaps occasionally more accurate shot groups you have been getting from the same batch of reloads may be from particular group of reloads with similar condition/dimension cases.

This would be hard to check unless you have enough verified once-fires brass. I save verified once-fired brass and can send you some with same lot/head stamp for further testing if you like. I am planning to do some RN vs JHP accuracy comparison range test over the Christmas week and can do some test for you with Berry's RS/TCFP bullets with same/different powders.

1KPerDay
December 10, 2013, 01:09 PM
Cool. I may have to try that. I have been using mixed brass to this point, because that's what I load 99% of the time.

I'll try a batch of the Berry's 180s with once-fired Winchester or Speer and see if that makes the difference.

I've been loading Berry's 165 HPTP for a few days with good results.

Due to these reasons, I think if a reloader uses mixed range pick up brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass, use of more conservative published load data would be adviseable for the initial powder work up/load development especially for 40S&W and faster burn rate powders.Very good advice, as always. :cool:

jim8115
December 10, 2013, 04:07 PM
For what it is worth, from my 4" XD, all at 1.120

180 plated
4.5 W231 avg 822 FPS

5.7 power Pistol avg 905

JIM

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