Tell Me About CZ Handguns


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dalv
November 26, 2013, 08:39 PM
Hey Guys (and Gals if appropriate)

I'm a big fan of CZ rifles and recently shotguns. Love the workmanship and accuracy - current count 4 rifles (1 more on order) and 2 shottys.

Anyway, handgun collection is pretty extensive - both wheel guns and pistols. Variety of Colts, S&W, Ruger, DW, Kahr, Glock (anti-glocker that converted...I shoot my 36 better than all the others! Who'd a thunk it :p)

Always on the look out for the next addition to the stable. Anyway, got thinkin' I never really checked out the CZ pistol line - both old and new.

Favorite caliber is .45ACP with .40 then 9mm - and always luv the rimfires.

So, please educate me - lean towards the compacts for carry but open for suggestions. What's out there on the new/used market - any good deals on models that aren't the newest and greatest?

Appreciate any help. Going over to the forum to learn more!

THanks

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Walkalong
November 26, 2013, 09:04 PM
Always on the look out for the next addition to the stable. Anyway, got thinkin' I never really checked out the CZ pistol line - both old and new.

Favorite caliber is .45ACP
CZ makes great handguns.

Unless you have small hands, check out the CZ97.

dalv
November 26, 2013, 09:17 PM
Wow, I'm liking that!

Thanks - will look into that more. Hope to get a chance to grab a hold of one to check how it feels in the hand

primalmu
November 26, 2013, 09:27 PM
IMO, you can't own CZ pistols without at least owning their flagship CZ75B. I don't have to tell you the quality of craftsmanship you'll get since you already own several CZs.

Thompsoncustom
November 26, 2013, 09:27 PM
The CZ 75b is a classic and a amazing gun. They now offer a full line of poly guns to but I like the old real steel guns.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o77/danielthompson8588/Picture2069edit_zpsd5a95331.jpg

Kiln
November 26, 2013, 09:48 PM
My CZ75B is awesome. Recoil isn't bad because of the size/weight, it holds 16 rounds of 9mm, and they're known for exceptional accuracy.

blahpony
November 26, 2013, 10:14 PM
I have a CZ P-07. I like it quite a bit.

http://i.imgur.com/KMLPgZR.jpg

As a carry gun:

http://i.imgur.com/68iMLlQ.jpg

browningguy
November 26, 2013, 11:22 PM
I only have one CZ currently, a 75B. Quite honestly they seem well made, but unless you get one of the match models all of the triggers I have tried were just acceptable.

CA Raider
November 26, 2013, 11:40 PM
if you like the CZ's - get one of their pistols. they are very accurate, and price is quite reasonable. I have fired the classic CZ-75B in 9mm a lot, and found it to be a very accurate gun. I have not tried the CZ-97 in 45 cal. I'd like to, though.

I find arguments by people seeking the "perfect trigger" to be a bit perfectionistic. I don't see anything wrong with the CZ triggers. If you hold the pistol well and maintain good sight alignment - you will get excellent results.

CA R

sirgilligan
November 27, 2013, 12:10 AM
I have two CZ products. Both are excellent. A CZ 85B pistol in 9mm and a CZ 527 bolt action in 5.56 NATO.

Here are some pictures from older posts:

7 Yards

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Zgm0N8fcmLw/UFCRxjU9pCI/AAAAAAAACtY/027IS9KzI_0/s640/czt.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4-DxwU4sjuI/UFCRyAFlICI/AAAAAAAACtk/qp97SX3Opi4/s640/czr1.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0v4AB-BezuM/UFCRyo5UxCI/AAAAAAAACtw/b97kKnCNT8g/s640/czr2.png


Two more sets at 7 yards:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UrBU7WxGD2E/UF89715m8NI/AAAAAAAACuU/AvPuZ4vXTpQ/s640/cz_greg.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Zgm0N8fcmLw/UFCRxjU9pCI/AAAAAAAACtY/027IS9KzI_0/s640/czt.png

sirgilligan
November 27, 2013, 12:12 AM
And here are some 15 yard shots. All free standing, just throw her up there and let'em go:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lwsNoKZ1FkU/UCmV_9VMFBI/AAAAAAAACns/rxQQd6oUQIA/s640/IMG_0234.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IECDXi7eL2o/UCmWAS5Vd1I/AAAAAAAACn0/WeKNRr_CiXM/s640/IMG_0235.JPG

sirgilligan
November 27, 2013, 12:15 AM
And one more, three in one hole, 7 yards, free standing (see bottom part of picture)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TG8KQLk2bbw/TxJcVc47FFI/AAAAAAAAA8M/9cGObXBTttc/s1600/IMG_0174.JPG


So, I think the proof is in the pictures. I am an average shot.

I have to say it was the best thing next to my Browning Hi-Power that I have ever bought.

targetshooter22
November 27, 2013, 12:30 AM
CZ 75BD is a great gun. I, like others, prefer the all steel approach. It runs great, and is fun to shoot. The only ammo it hates (and ever failed to feed) was Blazer aluminum cases. So accurate, fun, reliable, all metal. What's not to like?

Of course the pistol is great, but my favorite CZ products are their rifles. :)

dalv
November 27, 2013, 04:44 AM
Thanks guys - looks like I need to check them out. I do like the blue/wood as well although not against the poly.

Will start browsing and see what is out there - I frequent several LGS. Only issue is Left wing NY and the stupid "safe" law limits to 10 rd mag - although we can only load with 7 rds :cuss:

That will limit the models available for me to purchase, but there are enough others.

Will let you know

IdahoHk416
November 27, 2013, 05:20 AM
CZ makes a great pistol. They are well made, reliable, and very accurate. I recently had a CZ 75B Compact that I traded away. I didn't shoot it much, and my Springfield XD-9 was lighter and higher capacity, while being the same size. Nothing bad to say about the CZ. It was a great gun.

Here are a few pics of my recently traded CZ 75B Compact. It was a good looking gun. I had it Cerakoted burnt bronze, hyena brown VZ Frag grips, and Meprolight night sights on it.

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w590/idahobackpacker21/CZBB1_zps2bcec95c.jpg

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w590/idahobackpacker21/CZBB2_zps519410f0.jpg

http://i1331.photobucket.com/albums/w590/idahobackpacker21/CZBB3_zps4c397e5d.jpg

chris in va
November 27, 2013, 05:46 AM
Beware of three CZ models.

97b converted to SAO and smithed.

75b polished stainless.

P01.

Hold and fire any of these and your wallet will get much lighter.

Thompsoncustom
November 27, 2013, 07:59 AM
Don't worry CZ makes 10rd mags for any of the 75 series guns.

Roadkill
November 27, 2013, 09:09 AM
Good guns -

CZ P01
http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=786921&size=1

30'/5 shots
http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=786922&size=1

CZ SP01 Tactical

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=786916&size=1

30'/5 shots
http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=786917&size=1

Pilot
November 27, 2013, 10:34 AM
Idaho,

That is a beautiful CZ Compact. Yes they are all steel, and yes they are heavy relatively speaking. However, the nice thing about CZ is they make both aluminum alloy framed compact pistols like the 75D PCR, and P-01, and now polymer framed like the P-07, P-09, and Phantom. So you can get an excellent, lighter weight pistol from CZ.

Orion8472
November 27, 2013, 11:03 AM
I LOVE my CZ P-09. They are a bit hard to find, but worth the wait. CZ, IMO, makes the top tier guns.

bannockburn
November 27, 2013, 11:32 AM
While the original CZ75 had a grip frame and trigger design that was a bit of a stretch if you had small hands/short fingers, the compact P-01 is perfectly downsized in comparison. I love the way it feels and balances in my hand and the overall quality in terms of fit and finish are first rate.

Orion8472
November 27, 2013, 11:42 AM
It's hard to beat the grip on the original 75s. Better than the P-09 [though the P-09 feels good]. My best feeling [and shooting] gun I've ever owned is my customized SP-01. The only thing it lacks is a good quality set of wood grips. Right now, it just has the Hogue grip on it. . . . though it DOES make it even more comfortable to shoot with the Hogue on it. Quarter [maybe even nickle, if I take my time] sized standing groups at 7 yards with it. A truly amazing pistol!

snapshot762
November 27, 2013, 03:28 PM
The CZ75 is my favorite handgun by far!
75 matte stainless
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/snapshot762/DSCN0313.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/snapshot762/media/DSCN0313.jpg.html)

P-01.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/snapshot762/100_1019.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/snapshot762/media/100_1019.jpg.html)


SP-01.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/snapshot762/100_0592.jpg (http://s56.photobucket.com/user/snapshot762/media/100_0592.jpg.html)

Not pictured is the .22 Kadet adapter works with any of my cz's, love them all!

browningguy
November 27, 2013, 06:49 PM
I find arguments by people seeking the "perfect trigger" to be a bit perfectionistic. I don't see anything wrong with the CZ triggers. If you hold the pistol well and maintain good sight alignment - you will get excellent results.

I guess this was aimed at me, since it showed up under my post daring to say anything "difficult or non-fanboyish" about a CZ. If you don't see anything wrong with standard CZ triggers it's only because you haven't tried a really good trigger. Also I haven't seen any posts where someone was seeking the "perfect trigger", although they are certainly available. Next to the barrel the trigger is the most important thing for accuracy, so yes, some of us do put an emphasis on the quality of the trigger pull. Personally I get better results with smooth crisp triggers than I do with just adequate triggers. Now keep in mind I've only been shooting competitively since 1976 (although I've never been really good) so I still have a lot to learn and may be proven wrong about trigger quality being a desirable thing.

Also CZ do put some very nice triggers in their match guns, so I really don't see why they can't better with the regular line. It's not like they sell them at cut-rate prices and have to save every dime they can. I love the basic 75 design, but honestly I have found the Tanfoglio versions to be more accurate and have better triggers at every price point.

They are perfectly adequate defensive guns in the standard models. Here's my current CZ, although I only wear it to fancy dress barbeques and don't carry it on a regular basis.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/jcm9371/Pistols/cz30th03Small.jpg

The_Guy
November 27, 2013, 07:44 PM
I have a CZ P-07. I like it quite a bit.

http://i.imgur.com/KMLPgZR.jpg

As a carry gun:

http://i.imgur.com/68iMLlQ.jpg
What holster is that?

Walt Sherrill
November 27, 2013, 08:02 PM
While the original CZ75 had a grip frame and trigger design that was a bit of a stretch if you had small hands/short fingers, the compact P-01 is perfectly downsized in comparison.

I'm pretty sure that you'll find that the P-01 is not downsized in ways that affect the grip size or trigger reach: slide length and grip length are the main changes, both shorter. The shortened grip still accomodates the full-size gun's mags, so grip diameter hasn't really changed.

What accounts for the difference? The trigger has a different shape (which, when first introduced in the PCR, the early CZ nuts called it the "recurved trigger"), and like the other CZ decocker models, it starts from the half-cock. Those two subtle changes account for the better trigger accessibility for those with small hands or short fingers. Those same features could be incorporated into a full-size CZ. Cajun Gun Works has a trigger kit that shortens the trigger pull even farther... The P-01 has a number of modification that make it differ from the PCR, some of which are improvements, some of which can simply be called changes. I do prefer the extended beavertail, which is found on many of the newer models (including the SA versions and the Stainless models.)

Cardboard_killer
November 27, 2013, 08:05 PM
My P-01 has been flawless. Here's an old picture; since that time, I've had the slide hard chromed.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l620/Zhillsauditor/CZ_P01_1_zpsea282d20.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/Zhillsauditor/media/CZ_P01_1_zpsea282d20.jpg.html)

blahpony
November 27, 2013, 11:46 PM
What holster is that?

I bought it at a show. It is a Master's Holster for a SA XD-4" model. The back of the bag has holsterama.com on it. I also bought the pistol at the show, so I was lucky enough to have a chance to test fit it before buying.

viking499
November 28, 2013, 12:23 AM
Cardboard, I would like to see a new pic with the hard chrome. Sounds interesting........

TennJed
November 28, 2013, 04:47 AM
Cardboard, I would like to see a new pic with the hard chrome. Sounds interesting........
Me too

dalv
November 28, 2013, 09:26 AM
All rightee then! Some great pics and posts - much appreciated. Sounds like I can't go wrong with any of them.

Re: Triggers - I do like to tinker a little and per the conversation on the stock triggers, are there upgrades out there if I decide to want to smooth it out? Currently, I am waiting on a Ghost trigger for the Glock 36 - stock trigger is not horrible but I read good things about doing the drop in upgrade.

While many nice pics - gotta say Cardboard the grips are awesome. Would like to know more on where you got them.

Full Disclosure: I'm sitting here Thanksgiving Day morning waiting on (2) CZ's....:rolleyes:
1) Gunbroker shipped a 452 LH 17HMR yesterday to my LGS - 4/5 day delivery
2) Same LGS has a 12ga SxS CZ Bobwhite on layaway while he sells a .41 Derringer on consignment for me.

Some might think I'm addicted.

I really like the P01 but prefer .40 over the 9mm so I think that would be a P06 - CZ site says mag is 14 rds - nfg in NYS. Thompson mentioned 10 rds are available for 75 series - could I get the 10 rd for the P06? Or, is there a compact .40 model that has one?

Thanks again for all the suggestions - keep them coming.

Might have to dig thru the safe queens to fund the pistol!

Cardboard_killer
November 28, 2013, 09:29 AM
Here it is, a matte chrome. I actually liked the black better, but the coating got a gouge in it. In some ways the coating CZ uses is more durable than most, but it is prone to being cut open. It also cannot be placed in an ultrasonic cleaner. The chrome is much more durable and easier to clean. The aluminum lower could have been chromed (after first nickle plating it), but I didn't see the point, except to avoid a two tone finish.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l620/Zhillsauditor/75chromeleft_zps65ba257e.jpg (http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/Zhillsauditor/media/75chromeleft_zps65ba257e.jpg.html)

Cardboard_killer
November 28, 2013, 09:34 AM
Re: Triggers - I do like to tinker a little and per the conversation on the stock triggers, are there upgrades out there if I decide to want to smooth it out?
There are videos out there. My takeaway when buying the CZ was that the decocker versions can be very difficult to work on, and the trigger on those versions can never really reach the precision of the safetied versions. I've owned a SA CZ75 and the trigger was impressive, but for a duty gun, my P01 is fine, and I prefer a no-safety gun for carrying.

I'd like to buy a stock 75 and try out working on the trigger, but only so many projects with the time I have.

Edit: the SA 75 I owned had the trigger block removed, so was unsafe to carry, but made the trigger that much better. Removing the trigger block is a service option at the CZ Custom shop, when they do a trigger job.

Cardboard_killer
November 28, 2013, 09:40 AM
Would like to know more on where you got them.

http://www.marschalgrips.com/?content=CZ-models

I contacted Marschal about some aboyna burl grips, thin. He had some scraps he was able to use; cost was crazy cheap IMO, something like $60 shipped from Europe. That was a few years ago now.

Walkalong
November 28, 2013, 10:36 AM
Re: Triggers - I do like to tinker a little and per the conversation on the stock triggers, are there upgrades out there if I decide to want to smooth it out?I put a competition hammer in my CZ 97 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=547261) and it went from nice to wow. Not for anyone without mechanical experience working with small parts and tolerances.

Cajun Gun Works (http://cajungunworks.com/) has kits for CZs or can do the work for you.

armoredman
November 28, 2013, 01:22 PM
Never had to change a thing on any CZ pistol I own or have owned. I was accused of getting a trigger job on my P-01, and that came from a gunsmith. Said nope, that's just broken in. :)

CZ makes outstanding sidearms, ones that I depend on every day.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CZ%20posters/PhantomandP-09_zps265cddcc.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/CZ%20posters/PhantomandP-09_zps265cddcc.jpg.html)

brutus51
November 28, 2013, 01:26 PM
Love both of mine, 85 Combat is for target shooting PCR for SD. 100% reliable and as accurate as any 9MM I've tried. Only complaint is the trigger as it comes out of the box, been thinking about sending them off to the CZ custom shop but it kind of irritates me to invest $200 in something I think should be better from the factory.
I really have the hots for a 20 gauge Ringneck with 26" barrels and would love some feed back regarding them.

http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w531/brutus1951/DSCN0604_zps0a8b2a1e.jpg (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/brutus1951/media/DSCN0604_zps0a8b2a1e.jpg.html)

Walt Sherrill
November 28, 2013, 01:55 PM
Only complaint is the trigger as it comes out of the box, been thinking about sending them off to the CZ custom shop but it kind of irritates me to invest $200 in something I think should be better from the factory.

It is irritating, particularly when you find that the Witness guns generally have much better triggers, out of the box. That said, you can sometimes do the trigger work yourself, if you're mechanically inclined -- and the CZ Forum has good how-to instructions (with photos), if you want to try it. (It's a bit harder on the decocker models...) Check the FAQ area. http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php

You can also check out the trigger kits from Cajun Gun Works, which -- when coupled with a different hammer - are pretty impressive.

My complaint isn't just paying for having to do trigger work -- which is ugly -- but also having to pay the costs of SHIPPING the gun to have the work done!!

Buying directly from the CZ Custom Shop with the work done before it's shipped to your FFL is a good alternative.

For most problems (except a crisp SA hammer drop with no camming), a LOT of dry-firing (with snap cap on the older models) will do the job.

brutus51
November 28, 2013, 05:33 PM
I concur Mr. Sherrill but I can't really complain, I knew going in that I wasn't purchasing target grade pistols and both are more than adequate for "minute of bad guy". Still since my primary shooting endeavor is target shooting I'm torn between learning to shoot them as they are or paying for the custom work. As is, they out perform any other 9 I have owned which include a Berretta and a BHP. Guess I'm just spoiled by years of shooting 1911's and old Colt, Smith & wesson revolver's. Given the difference in price, $200 bucks added to the cost of a CZ still makes it a bargain in my book.;)

billybob44
November 28, 2013, 10:24 PM
Beware of three CZ models.

97b converted to SAO and smithed.

75b polished stainless.

P01.

Hold and fire any of these and your wallet will get much lighter.
I KNOW you are right on #2+#3..I have both of those..Bill.

viking499
November 28, 2013, 10:35 PM
Cardboard, very nice looking setup. Like the two tone. Might keep that in mind for my PCR or P01 if it needs a little "help" someday. I also like the Marschel grips. I have a set, but have not used them in about a year or so since I put VZ's on. My wife has better control of the gun with the VZ's.

celem
November 29, 2013, 12:17 AM
If interested in the CZ75 also look at the Tanfoglio Witness line. They are well made Italian clones of the CZ75. I have one and love it.

chicharrones
November 29, 2013, 12:32 AM
Here are a few pics of my recently traded CZ 75B Compact. It was a good looking gun. I had it Cerakoted burnt bronze, hyena brown VZ Frag grips, and Meprolight night sights on it.

Very nice. I didn't know that VZ finally made the frag grips for the CZ Compacts. Dang, I might have to ditch the compact wood grips now. :D

clance
November 29, 2013, 01:13 AM
http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/stmichps/CZ75BDPoliceampPCR.jpg

The top one is CZ 75 D PCR in 9mm. It has a alloy frame, steel slide and is easy to carry. The bottom one is a CZ 75 BD Police all steel in 9mm.

Just recently my son in law talk me out of the PCR, it was he that inform me of the PCR and it's meets or exceeds NATO specs. The BD I've found not that difficult to carry conceal even though I'm 5'10" and 190lbs. While not as easy to carry I have comfort in being reminded that it's always at my sided when I carry it.

The only thing that I don't like about the PCR is that it come from the factory with "rubber" grips. Only someone that hasn't carry before would but rubber grips on a conceal pistol...

chicharrones
November 29, 2013, 01:18 PM
The only thing that I don't like about the PCR is that it come from the factory with "rubber" grips. Only someone that hasn't carry before would but rubber grips on a conceal pistol...

Luckily, we can change those out. :cool:

http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/cz75pcr-shoes-2.jpg

viking499
November 29, 2013, 01:31 PM
Yes we can.....

chicharrones
November 29, 2013, 01:32 PM
Yes we can.....

:D . . .

viking499
November 29, 2013, 01:37 PM
Stupid ipad pics........:banghead:

5-SHOTS
November 29, 2013, 02:04 PM
If you like .45ACP the only CZ in this caliber is the 97B o 97BD with decocker.
CZ shows its best in 9mm with a bunch of different models to choose. In my family there are actually two CZ: a 75B Stainless (with the brushed finish) and a P-01. Both are excellent handguns and I can't recommend one over the other.
However, starting from scratch I'd purchase a 75BD Police 9mm with the .22L.R. Kadet kit.

If interested in the CZ75 also look at the Tanfoglio Witness line. They are well made Italian clones of the CZ75. I have one and love it.
Good suggestion. Tanfoglio makes all the models in 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, 10mm Auto and probably .38 Super Auto. They are hi quality pistols very popular in IDPA and IPSC competitions.

larryh1108
November 29, 2013, 05:00 PM
The PCR has some nice wood grips out there.
It's also the most accurate (in my hands) 9mm out there which includes a BHP and 9mm 1911.
Not a single complaint on this little gem.

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/CZ%20USA/CZ75PCRleft-1.jpg (http://s342.photobucket.com/user/larryh1108/media/CZ%20USA/CZ75PCRleft-1.jpg.html)

Cardboard_killer
November 29, 2013, 06:26 PM
About the only thing I don't like on my P01 is the rail. I never use it, but bought thinking I would. If I were to start from scratch, I'd start with the PCR instead, and save some girth on my carry gun.

Not a big deal though.

Walt Sherrill
November 29, 2013, 08:49 PM
... I actually liked the black better, but the coating got a gouge in it.

If it ever comes up again:

You can do pretty nice touchups with Dupli-Color matte black auto body touch-up paint. Use the small applicator bottle with brush for big gouges, and get the larger spray can for fine, tiny scratches.

1) If the gouge or scratch is thick, fill it with the touch-up paint from the bottle with the brush, as it's thicker. Let it dry thorough, and then trim with a razor, if necessary.

2) if the scratch is minor, use the spray version, sprayed only aluminum foil, and then applied with an appropriate brush. The spray paint is thinner, and allows for a smoother, finer finish.

3) you can sometimes smooth it all up with a light hit with very, very fine (wet/dry) sandpaper and water. You may find that doing 1), then 2) then 3) works best for deep scratches.

Just using a brush (with the thinner paint), I've been able to make repairs not visible to the naked eye.

Most of the matte black auto-body touch up paints seem very close to the Dupli-color paint.

As noted, the polycoat finish has slowly evolved and improved over the years until it's one of the most durable finishes that isn't a metal plating.

pokersamurai
November 29, 2013, 09:40 PM
My CZ-75 Retro is my favorite 9mm I own. As a matter of fact, I liked it so much I sent it to the CZ Custom Shop and had them work their magic on it, now it is absolutely phenomenal.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg478/pokersamurai/DSCF4416.jpg (http://s543.photobucket.com/user/pokersamurai/media/DSCF4416.jpg.html)

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg478/pokersamurai/DSCF4413.jpg (http://s543.photobucket.com/user/pokersamurai/media/DSCF4413.jpg.html)

Pilot
November 29, 2013, 10:20 PM
^^^^^^^^I know Walt feels the same way, but the CZ Retro is my favorite. I should have bought one when they were released, but as I already had a 75B, and 75D, I thought what do I "need" that for. It's got nothing to do with need, that pistol just looks right, and I'm sure with the work is just a superb shooter, not that they aren't out of the box. The grips just make that pistol also.

Very, very nice. Maybe CZ will bring them back??? One can only hope.

Walt Sherrill
November 29, 2013, 10:28 PM
The good looks of the original 75, with the improvements of the B series, along with a new gun warranty. And no concern about a "some-day" shortage of certain parts, like those in some of the pre-B safety assemblies. What's not to like about the Retro?

I don't do pre-B 75s any more, but WOULD buy a retro if I found one... along with a CZ-40B. (Had one of those and foolishly let it go, back when I didn't care for .40 S&W; I like it a bit better now. Had some 75Bs in .40, but like the 40B better!!)

viking499
November 30, 2013, 12:28 AM
About the only thing I don't like on my P01 is the rail. I never use it, but bought thinking I would. If I were to start from scratch, I'd start with the PCR instead, and save some girth on my carry gun.

Not a big deal though.

If I lived closer, I would trade you a PCR for your P01.

Cardboard_killer
November 30, 2013, 08:38 AM
Only if I started from scratch would I go with the PCR. I'm very happy with my P01 right now.

brutus51
November 30, 2013, 11:33 AM
What constitutes a "retro"? Never heard of it.

Walt Sherrill
November 30, 2013, 11:48 AM
The RETRO model was a small run of special CZs, done 7-8 years ago (maybe earlier?).

They had the look of the original pre-B CZ-75, but internally were Model Bs. The differences: rounded trigger guard, spur hammer, different slide release (looking like the original). Sights were standard 75B, not like the older pre-Bs, which had a staked front sight and a different dovetail on the rear.

The model had the good looks of the 75, with the firing pin block and warranty of the 75B -- the best of both. Wish I had the money to get one when they were introduced.

CZ later did the RED STAR Commemorative, and sold a bunch of them, as well. (The commemorative was a standard 75B with a different roll mark on the slide (and maybe a set of different marks on the frame) using the red star and hammer & sickle. I found that ironic, since the CZ-75 was NEVER used by the Communist Block militaries [neither was the 9x19 round, upon which the 75 was based]; it was apparently designed for sale to the West, but the Western Embargo of most Communist Bloc goods hampered that.)

I doubt that either of these would have much in the way of "collectible" potential, but I would like to have a RETRO.

armoredman
November 30, 2013, 02:19 PM
The only thing that I don't like about the PCR is that it come from the factory with "rubber" grips. Only someone that hasn't carry before would but rubber grips on a conceal pistol...

Umm, not really. My P-01 is wearing factory rubber grips right now. No problems. Been carrying concealed since 1994, when our law went into effect, carried with partial covering garment before that, guns with plastic, rubber and wood grips. I understand what it is you're probably trying to say that sticky rubber grips can catch covering garments and give away the CCW pistol, but it isn't true, at least for me,( can't speak even for some people from Tennessee), but I haven't had that problem down here yet.

Walt Sherrill
November 30, 2013, 05:32 PM
Agree.

When I carried a CZ-75 Compact, it had the factory soft-rubber grips, and it wasn't a problem. Nowadays, when I carry, it's either a Kel-Tec PF9 (with a Handall-type rubber wrap, or a Kahr CM9 with a similar wrap. I've had other guns with the rubber -- and the rubber was never a problem.

The poster's negative experience may be mix of his build, holster, and unique choice of clothes. Rubber grips need NOT be a problem.

sd790
November 30, 2013, 06:26 PM
I must be the only person around who is disappointed with their CZ. My 75BD Police shoots well, but has not been reliable enough. The trigger bar came loose after about 500 rounds and now the slide release lets go by itself every time I insert a magazine. Meh...

Pilot
November 30, 2013, 07:29 PM
I must be the only person around who is disappointed with their CZ. My 75BD Police shoots well, but has not been reliable enough. The trigger bar came loose after about 500 rounds and now the slide release lets go by itself every time I insert a magazine. Meh...
CZ USA has excellent customer service. Give them a call, they will take care of it.

WRT rubber grip panels, my PCR still wears them and I've been carrying it since 2000 without issues.

Walt Sherrill
November 30, 2013, 07:48 PM
...trigger bar came loose after about 500 rounds and now the slide release lets go by itself every time I insert a magazine.

The trigger bar coming loose would have irritated me, but not the slide release allowing the slide to go forward with a firm mag insertion. That "unwanted" step speeds up the process and is very useful in competition, if predictable/consistent. (There is nothing UNSAFE about this extra functionality.) Some of my guns do that; I wish they all did.

Bending the slide stop retention spring might put some extra force on that part if you want it to go away. Or contact CZ-USA...

primalmu
November 30, 2013, 08:07 PM
My CZ also releases the slide if I slam the magazine in, but not if I insert it normally. When I first noticed it I did some research and apparently its common on MANY pistols. It doesn't bother me any.

The Lone Haranguer
November 30, 2013, 08:45 PM
I've had this one for some time that I like very much.

http://www.fototime.com/028E00BDC607556/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/830E1279A8EABC3/standard.jpg
(The top photo shows the new night sights I put on it, the bottom the original sights.)

75D Compact PCR. This differs from the Compact mainly in having an aluminum frame and a decocker (lever shown in the bottom photo) instead of a manual safety. It is more related to the P-01, lacking that gun's accessory rail.

sd790
December 1, 2013, 12:49 AM
The trigger bar coming loose would have irritated me, but not the slide release allowing the slide to go forward with a firm mag insertion. That "unwanted" step speeds up the process and is very useful in competition, if predictable/consistent. (There is nothing UNSAFE about this extra functionality.) Some of my guns do that; I wish they all did.

Bending the slide stop retention spring might put some extra force on that part if you want it to go away. Or contact CZ-USA...

My issue is that the behavior is different from any other pistol. I don't want to have to recognize whether or not the slide released on its own so that the muscle memory from repetition will be consistent no matter what I shoot. When the slide releases on its own, my brain has to register that fact and change the trained movements.

That's a good suggestion to contact CZ. Don't know why I haven't thought of that myself.

primalmu
December 1, 2013, 01:35 AM
No, its not different from any other pistol. Many pistols do this.

https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=slide+release+when+i+insert+magazine

Springfield XD
S&W M&P
Walther
Glock
Ruger

That's just the first page of results. You may not personally like it, but it is NOT a problem unique to CZs, and you should keep in mind that you very well may encounter this in other brands as well.

Walt Sherrill
December 1, 2013, 09:46 AM
My issue is that the behavior is different from any other pistol. I don't want to have to recognize whether or not the slide released on its own so that the muscle memory from repetition will be consistent no matter what I shoot. When the slide releases on its own, my brain has to register that fact and change the trained movements.

It's not really different "from any other pistol" -- just different from any other pistol you've owned or used. It is, in that sense, the "luck of the draw." I've had a number of Glocks that do that, and a couple of CZs. As I said, I wish I could make all of my guns behave that way.

That said, how does the slide releasing "automatically" with the mag insertion really change anything you'd do? Wouldn't you still simply press the slide release, if muscle memory conditioned you to do that? It's an intellectual problem for you -- because the gun doesn't behave as you expected it to -- but it is really not a functional or training (or practical) problem.

If it remains a concern, contact CZ-USA. As I suggested earlier, I suspect that simply bending the slide stop spring (you have to take it out to do it) might add some extra tension and keep the release from moving quite so easily. CZ-USA might suggest the same, or simply send you a new one (if you want to avoid shipping the gun off -- I would).

On the other hand, there may be CZ owners in your area who'd willingly swap your misbehaving CZ for their "proper" gun that doesn't behave in that manner.

bikerdoc
December 1, 2013, 10:14 AM
For most problems (except a crisp SA hammer drop with no camming), a LOT of dry-firing (with snap cap on the older models) will do the job.

That is what I did with all 3 of mine.

Jim NE
December 1, 2013, 04:46 PM
Since the OP likes .40 cal., he could keep an eye out for a CZ 40P or CZ40 B, as well. I have the 40P, and while it does have a reputation for being a bit more finicky than drop dead reliable 75b's, once you get the right ammo and mag, it will work just as well.

I mention this because a used CZ40 P (they don't make them anymore) will probably go for less money than a used CZ 75, yet, to my hands, is more comfortable because of rubber grips, alloy frame and smoother controls. Very accurate too. I paid more than necessary for my 40 P, but it's the best feeling semi-auto pistol I own. Good luck.

Walt Sherrill
December 1, 2013, 05:33 PM
...I mention this because a used CZ40 P (they don't make them anymore) will probably go for less money than a used CZ 75, yet, to my hands, is more comfortable because of rubber grips, alloy fram and smoother controls. Very accurate too. I paid more than necessary for my 40 P, but it's the best feeling semi-auto pistol I own. Good luck.

Don't make them any more, and didn't make a lot of them in the first place. Their production seemed, to some of us, to be a way to use up a big inventory of 40B slides (probably made in anticipation of the Colt deal that fell through.)

In some respects, the 40P should be outstanding: P-01 frame (with modifications) and a 40B slide. The problem is that unlike the rest of the CZ metal-framed line, the Kadet Kit won't work on the 40P frame. (CZ modified the standard P-01 frame so that you can't use a P-01 slide; only the 40B slide works on that modified frame.)

If you can live with those (minor) shortcomings, you might find you like the 40P a lot. They'll accept both the standard "compact" mags and the full-size 75B mags, which can give you some extra rounds. (There are also some special spacers floating around that make the full-size mags look like an extension of the 40P grip.)

If you can find one, you could do worse.

larryh1108
December 1, 2013, 07:55 PM
I third the vote for the CZ40P. Mine is the softest shooting .40S&W I own and I believe it's due to the low bore axis. It is also my most accurate as well. It is, in a sense, a PCR in .40S&W because it has the alloy, compact frame like the PCR. Side-by-side they are hard to tell apart.

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/CZ%20USA/40P-2-1.jpg (http://s342.photobucket.com/user/larryh1108/media/CZ%20USA/40P-2-1.jpg.html)

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o435/larryh1108/CZ%20USA/CZx2left.jpg (http://s342.photobucket.com/user/larryh1108/media/CZ%20USA/CZx2left.jpg.html)

viking499
December 1, 2013, 08:33 PM
I third the vote for the CZ40P. Mine is the softest shooting .40S&W I own and I believe it's due to the low bore axis. It is also my most accurate as well. It is, in a sense, a PCR in .40S&W because it has the alloy, compact frame like the PCR. Side-by-side they are hard to tell apart.






More like the P01 than a PCR since it has a rail.

larryh1108
December 1, 2013, 09:03 PM
True.

bani
December 2, 2013, 04:05 AM
My issue is that the behavior is different from any other pistol. I don't want to have to recognize whether or not the slide released on its own so that the muscle memory from repetition will be consistent no matter what I shoot. When the slide releases on its own, my brain has to register that fact and change the trained movements.

That's a good suggestion to contact CZ. Don't know why I haven't thought of that myself.

send it to me and i will be happy to dispose of this unreliable and dangerous firearm for you. together we can make the world a better place.

Orion8472
December 2, 2013, 10:56 AM
bani, . . . with only 2 posts on this forum, . . . you have no right to make that suggestion, sir. Therefore, . . . he should send it to ME and I will make sure that it will never become a harm to another. The world will smile and there will seemingly be more birds in the air.

:D

1SOW
December 3, 2013, 03:37 AM
CZ 75 Custom Shadow with Short Reset Trigger mod, all the action upgrades and adj. rear Competition sight:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wxoHQ_AdMdw/UckGgYpkpjI/AAAAAAAACUE/m5U4-463pMk/s800/S4300057.JPG

CA Raider
December 3, 2013, 11:39 AM
"I guess this was aimed at me, since it showed up under my post daring to say anything "difficult or non-fanboyish" about a CZ. If you don't see anything wrong with standard CZ triggers it's only because you haven't tried a really good trigger."

actually i don't aim comments at people, and I avoid personal arguments. my comments have more to do with my own approach to the weapons. if a gun has an "average" trigger I will accept it as such and shoot to get good results. or to put it another way ... I don't blame the "tool" for my own bad results. with a CZ, anyone should be able to get accurate fire on target. there may be better guns or better triggers out there, but a CZ will cetainly put the bullets where they need to go. hope that explains it better.

CA R

Walt Sherrill
December 3, 2013, 12:38 PM
I don't blame the "tool" for my own bad results. with a CZ, anyone should be able to get accurate fire on target. there may be better guns or better triggers out there, but a CZ will cetainly put the bullets where they need to go. hope that explains it better.

Can we assume you don't shoot in any of the "combat" gun games, like USPSA or IDPA?

I agree that even a bad trigger in an accurate gun can give good results, but I can tell you that an accurate gun with a GOOD trigger can be shot with good results with less effort OR shoot more rapidly with good results than one with a crappy trigger. If you shoot competitively (USPSA or IDPA), a good trigger will give you better scores. If your shooting is limited to punching paper at the target range, it's less critical.

Witnesses, a very similar design, seem to come from the factory with better triggers than CZs; I don't know about the many new Turkish CZ-pattern guns, but haven't heard a lot of complaints.

I continue to be puzzled by CZ's lack of attention to this trait of their guns. The DA triggers seem to have gotten worse over the past 10-15 years, as has the "camming" of the hammer (a rearward movement before dropping), when fired in SA mode. Shooting 300-400 rounds (or doing a LOT of dry firing) will smooth out the DA trigger, but none of this will make the "camming" of the SA hammer go away. That requires a change to the sear/hammer interface, best done by an experienced gunsmith. The changed geometry of some of the aftermarket hammers and related parts seem to improve it, too. The CZ Custom Shop and Cajun Gun Works are good sources for these parts or services.


That's all stuff that CZ could do, as they build them -- and I suspect many CZ owners (myself included) would be willing to pay for the extra labor or manufacturing steps required, if it was available as an option.

Orion8472
December 3, 2013, 01:09 PM
True Walt. It does seem to take some smithing to get a really good trigger on the CZ. Mine was modified rather extremely. SAO trigger with travel like a top quality 1911. But I had to lose the Firing Pin Block Safety to acheive that level of trigger [and a pull of about 2 1/2 lbs]. Absolutely no camming with that trigger. It is a pistol that will give you the highest probability of great groupings.

Having said that, my brother's P-01 still has a very nice trigger for factory. DA is fine and the SA is good as well. I can get some decent groups with it. Yes, some camming, but still a nice trigger.

Cardboard_killer
December 3, 2013, 04:17 PM
I continue to be puzzled by CZ's lack of attention to this trait of their guns.
Well, they did attempt to address it with the omega trigger, so I don't think that the claim of lack of attention is quite accurate. However, I agree that action on the QC side of the old triggers seems to be wanting by us, the users. It doesn't seem to me, an end user, that the cost of a little more attention to trigger part quality would not be soaked up by us end users instead of paying for a trigger job.

OTOH, other manufacturers (Ruger comes to mind) have had a similar tradition of sub-par triggers out of the box with little blowback from consumers.

Walt Sherrill
December 3, 2013, 04:52 PM
Well, they did attempt to address it with the omega trigger, so I don't think that the claim of lack of attention is quite accurate. However, I agree that action on the QC side of the old triggers seems to be wanting by us, the users. It doesn't seem to me, an end user, that the cost of a little more attention to trigger part quality would not be soaked up by us end users instead of paying for a trigger job.

I suspect the introduction of the Omega trigger had a different objective than improving a kludgy stock trigger. (I would argue that the standard trigger has arguably gotten worse, rather than better, despite the use of state-of-the-art CNC production equipment and methods.)

I view the Omega trigger as an attempt to accomodate two different groups of shooters -- those who like either a safety or a decocker -- with a single fire-control mechanism. CZ took a relatively unique approach when they did it, and didn't try to do it all with a single lever. The Omega system, however seems to offer a better production process based on a single design and production method, rather than two, as it is presently done in their factory.

But, who knows: you may be right.

If CZ starts to modify all of their older-models to use the Omega Trigger system or give buyers that option, I'd say you could be RIGHT. (In support of that argument, the Custom Shop now offers a version of the P-01 with the Omega trigger installed.) But, until that happens more widely, I think we'll just have to remain in the dark as to their motives for the development of the Omega system.

OTOH, other manufacturers (Ruger comes to mind) have had a similar tradition of sub-par triggers out of the box with little blowback from consumers.

That's a good point. I've had several centerfire Rugers, and none of them had great triggers. Their new SR guns, however, are more impressive. I have an SR9 (with an aftermarket trigger) that is very nice, and the newer SR9c seems to be almost as good in stock form. And then there's the GLOCK trigger... while some find Glock triggers irritating, they sell a lot of guns. (But they also generate a big demand for aftermarket trigger kits.)

CZ ought to buy Cajun Gun Works and incorporate Schmeky's products into their metal-framed production design... Schmeky would be financially fixed, and CZ would have first-class triggers.

Walt Sherrill
December 3, 2013, 08:57 PM
CZ 75 Custom Shadow with Short Reset Trigger mod, all the action upgrades and adj. rear Competition sight:

Very nice.

CA Raider
December 3, 2013, 11:47 PM
walt - I'm not putting anyone down here. you are correct that I train for a completely different scenario than what you described. i have no problem with competition shooters - and a lot of respect for their high level of skills.

I don't have any problem with CZ triggers. the important thing is that when you pull the trigger on a CZ, the gun goes BANG. that's why the CZ-75B's are used by many, many police agencies around the world.

CA R

el Godfather
December 4, 2013, 12:03 AM
They are good. Period.

The reason I spent a small fortune to get a CZ Automatic. A rare CZ pistol.

Walt Sherrill
December 4, 2013, 11:59 AM
I don't have any problem with CZ triggers. the important thing is that when you pull the trigger on a CZ, the gun goes BANG. that's why the CZ-75B's are used by many, many police agencies around the world.

I really didn't have a problem with your comments, either -- just wanted to note that not everybody is looking for the same thing in a trigger. A bunch of us find mediocre triggers unacceptable. That's one reason I haven't bought a new CZ in a while -- although I may spring for a P-07, one of these days.

(I've also got a SIG P226 X-FIVE SA that I've thought about swapping for a CZ Tactical Sport if the right one ever shows up. I just haven't bonded with that X-Five... which surprised me and everyone I talk with. It's not the gun.)
-----------------

As for CZs being widely used by police units around the world...

I'm a big, long-time CZ fan, but I think that folks take CZ's marketing claims (like "most widely used") to mean something different than they say. Some years back, a group of us on the original CZ Forum, set out to discover just where (and how many) CZs were used around the world. The answer was a few here, a few there, mostly in small police departments in Africa and places in Europe. Almost NO military units used them. The numbers were small, but well dispersed -- which arguably made the claim "widely used" accurate but somewhat misleading.

In the past 7-8 years, CZ seems to be playing catch-up with a lot of sales to military units in Europe and Asia. The total number still seems to be modest -- but growing. I expect the P-07 and P-09 series of guns to make that number grow even faster. That may be why the claim "many, many police departments" might be accurate -- but I'm skeptical.

That said, Beretta has probably sold more M9s to the U.S. Department of Defense alone than CZ has sold 75s and 75bs (or the P07/P09 guns) to police and military units worldwide since the 75 was first introduced. If I remember correctly, Beretta has sold nearly a million M9s to the U.S. since the Vietnam War, including an influx of several hundred thousand more over the past few years...) Berettas are pretty widely-used, too, but in far greater numbers. It's hard to TEST or VERIFY such claims.

None of this is meant to denigrate CZs -- I much prefer the CZ to the Beretta line. And except for the triggers (which can be tuned), I prefer the CZs to the Tanfoglio-pattern guns.

My point? You can't take CZ's marketing statements -- all of which are arguably truthful -- to mean more than they actually say: You've got to read them closely.

dalv
December 8, 2013, 07:41 AM
Geez, what a great read! Been away a couple days (moving 90 yr old Mom) and about to start another day with the Uhaul.

Really appreciate all the great input and envious of all of your pieces.

Will keep reading and learning and stop back when I have more time.

Thanks a bunch:D

cdb1
December 8, 2013, 08:54 AM
I am a huge fan of CZ. Own an 82, 83, 75 SP-01 Tactical, 512, 550 American and a 720. I am extremely disappointed to learn they are canceling production of the 550 American. Was planning on buying a couple more as funds permitted.

Queen_of_Thunder
December 8, 2013, 11:30 AM
With regards to th CZ I tend to lean towards the CZ 75 TS. A might fine weapon thats for sure. And accurate.

Big Dave
December 9, 2013, 10:55 PM
I wished they called it the cz tactical sport and dropped the 75 to avoid confusion. It's a different frame. I think the new P-07s have dropped the 75 marking.

Dean1818
December 10, 2013, 07:42 AM
Awesome, reliable, accurate, handguns

But...... Just too thick for IWB CCW

Hurryin' Hoosier
December 10, 2013, 05:43 PM
Once again, I'm "old school". My idea of the perfect "big" ČZ is one of my vz.82s (in 9x18 Makarov). Vynikající pistole! :cool:

Sulaco
December 11, 2013, 02:06 PM
My CZ 75 single action was the most accurate handgun I've ever owned. I never should have sold it. It was boring to shoot it was so predictably accurate.

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