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RustHunter87
November 27, 2013, 07:10 PM
Whats with the new add banner under the first post????
I'm not impressed.

If you enjoyed reading about "new ad banner" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rcmodel
November 27, 2013, 08:23 PM
I have no insider information concerning that.

But somebody has to pay the bills to keep THR running.

You want too?

rc

blarby
November 27, 2013, 08:31 PM
I agree, it is rather ....quirky.

threads also doesn't load correctly at all on my android device now :/

Telekinesis
November 27, 2013, 08:34 PM
Shouldn't there be some way to get more ad revenue without impacting the actual flow of the thread? I'm not a fan of the ads at the bottom either, but those are easier to ignore than something that's splitting actual posts in the thread (though I'm sure that's the point of the ad being there).

I'm also not a fan of the new ads. I think there are better ways to generate ad revenue than putting adverts between posts.

bikerdoc
November 27, 2013, 10:25 PM
Ya'all want some cheese with that wine.

blarby
November 27, 2013, 11:08 PM
Depends,

You want revenue from that viewership ?

bikerdoc
November 27, 2013, 11:56 PM
Actually I want no ads but rather an initiation fee, an annual fee and a fee for trading post, but I am not the shot caller on finances.

Radagast
November 28, 2013, 12:11 AM
You do know you can set your browser to not show banner adds/pop ups etc if you really want to?
Advertising revenue is dependent on click thru, so putting adds where they can't be seen defeats the purpose of funding the site.

Other forums (which I will not name-we don't do forum wars) allow commercial sponsors, who inevitably heavily influence the discourse on the boards, or worse end up being moderators who moderate in their own commercial interest. THR has 2000 members online right now. Bandwidth has to be paid for and banner adds are a simple way of doing this.

9mmepiphany
November 28, 2013, 12:17 AM
I must be doing something wrong

Are you logged in when you're seeing these ads?

I logged out and turned off my ad blocker and still don't see anything

Texan Scott
November 28, 2013, 12:59 AM
EDIT: The boxed portion below was meant as a joke at a time when I was unaware there was a "Contributing Member" option. It apparently caused some confusion, for which I'm sorry. :( Still, even if the ad banners remain, it's not a bad idea!

Y'all could always demand they cancel your memberships and refund your paid dues. That'd show 'em.

Of course, as a premium paying member, I don't see the ads. ;)

Do y'all call your local radio stations to complain about the annoying lumber yard jingles and Toyota sale-a-thon notices that keep popping up between songs?

Telekinesis
November 28, 2013, 10:45 AM
Y'all could always demand they cancel your memberships and refund your paid dues. That'd show 'em.

Of course, as a premium paying member, I don't see the ads.

Do y'all call your local radio stations to complain about the annoying lumber yard jingles and Toyota sale-a-thon notices that keep popping up between songs?


No, of course we don't call a raio station to complain about ads, but then again we don't have personal relationships with the songs and don't provide information for others use to the radio station.

My understanding of the mission of this website is to further RKBA and to provide a medium for people, particularly outsiders, to see responsible gun owners and to be able to converse with us. I have seen several threads in the past where an anti starts asking questions and is answered respectfully and is given facts that support our position, an occurrence that is very rare for gun boards. I like that, and I want it to continue.

Usability is a big part of that. If someone gets annoyed by ads appearing in the middle of a thread, they won't be as likely to jump in and use our forum, which doesn't help the goal of this site (or at least my understanding of what those goals are). I feel it is the member's responsibility to let the mods/site ownership know about our thoughts on the matter when it is directly related to site usability, so that they can weigh our comments against what they see (and the revenue generated by the ads in question) and decide what they want to do.

I'm not saying I don't like it because if offends my delicate sensibilities, I'm saying I think it directly impacts those who come to the site for information in a manor that is not directly in line with our site's stated goals.

I know web sites (especially forums as large as this one) require large amounts of server space, and I'm not begrudging the ownership for having ads. I just think the placement is less than optimal.

bikerdoc: Ya'all want some cheese with that wine.


Really? A MOD is calling us a bunch whiners?
That sure sounds like a comment designed to promote thoughtful debate and classy discussion :rolleyes:

Art Eatman
November 28, 2013, 11:02 AM
Dunno if that banner ad's placement is deliberate or not. Didn't ask. What I do know is that TANSTAAFL.

I guess that if somebody wins a lottery and sends Derek a nice fat check, we wouldn't need this conversation. :D

Regardless, the ad set-up here is a bunch better than at many of my regularly-browsed websites. Almost un-noticeable, really.

Oh: Telekinesis, this is far from being the first go-round on the subject of ads. Wearisome. Too many folks want freebies.

jrdolall
November 28, 2013, 11:13 AM
No problem with ads but it does slow down the loading of a thread when the Hampton Inn logo pops up.

It's not like I have time to stare at the screen for an extra 2.2 seconds. I'm a busy man!

rbernie
November 28, 2013, 12:16 PM
Ya'all want some cheese with that wine.
Derek is absolutely entitled to all of the ad revenue that he can generate, and then some. Art hit it squarely on the nose - TANSTAAFL. However, I would have recommended that y'all solicit (or at least accept) feedback WRT additional ad placement without the imperious name-calling.

But that's just me.

RustHunter87
November 28, 2013, 01:30 PM
I dont mind the ads just the placement, one of the things I liked about this forum was that they did place adds in the middle of the thread, having one at the top and 2 at the bottom wasn't good enough?

By the way I don't listen to the radio if i can help it, between the dj's and the commercials I just cant stand it.:barf:

jhop73
November 28, 2013, 01:41 PM
I am getting AT&T ads, not even firearm related.

plmitch
November 28, 2013, 02:39 PM
All I get for adds are group buys on midol and tampons. Just seems wrong.

Robert
November 28, 2013, 02:50 PM
The ads are not selected by Derek they are run by an ad server that is supposed to only display firearms related ads. Sometimes it works, sometimes it needs tweeking. I am sure Derek will get it sorted out.

blarby
November 28, 2013, 02:53 PM
As I stare at my free mattress coupon ad, I wonder if the way Wiki keeps their servers up and running might not be a more effective choice.

Mal H
November 28, 2013, 03:09 PM
Are those getting the non-firearm related ads logged in at the time they show up? I've seen nothing but ads that are relevant to THR in some way.

Sam1911
November 28, 2013, 03:14 PM
I'm logged in and looking at a Frigidaire ad.

blarby
November 28, 2013, 03:15 PM
I'm always logged in :D

Sam1911
November 28, 2013, 03:17 PM
Yup. Right now I'm seeing a 50/50 split of gun related and random other items.

Arkansas Paul
November 28, 2013, 05:22 PM
I love this site and would probably pay a small amount to be a member if I had to, but I would much rather not have to pay. So I'll put up with the ads and not complain. :)

jrdolall
November 28, 2013, 06:47 PM
Beverly Hilton ad between posts 13 and 14. A nomorerack ad and anothe Beverly Hilton at the bottom.

The ads are based on sites you have recently visited I imagine. I was on nomorerack earlier today and go to the Hilton website nearly every day.

9mmepiphany
November 28, 2013, 07:15 PM
The ads are based on sites you have recently visited I imagine. I was on nomorerack earlier today and go to the Hilton website nearly every day.
That was my understanding also

All I get for adds are group buys on midol and tampons. Just seems wrong.
Considering the above, only you can answer this quandary :p

hso
November 28, 2013, 08:47 PM
Hmmmmm, I'm seeing Best Buy and Bose and Chevy Equinox ads depending upon which thread I click into.

JShirley
November 28, 2013, 09:03 PM
After some requests by members for a way to directly contribute to offsetting THR costs, a "Contributing Member" option was created months ago. I think we have six or so contributing members so far.

A forum knife was created for those who wanted a unique and useful knife while also contributing a little to forum costs. Sales have been underwhelming.

The bills need to be paid somehow. If there is an offensive ad displaying, please let us know.

Bernie, your opinion carries great weight with me, but I am 100% certain you understand the difference between describing behavior and name calling.

RustHunter, I am wounded to my veritable core that you are not impressed, but I hope in time to recover.

John

Radagast
November 28, 2013, 09:39 PM
I just signed up as a contributing member. First time I have heard of it and I am in every day, so maybe a sticky in each of the sub forums?
For the amount of info and interaction with like minded individuals that I get on here, $25 is good value - better than subscribing to a dead tree gun magazine.

Sam Cade
November 28, 2013, 09:59 PM
- better than subscribing to a dead tree gun magazine.

Are those still around? ;)


I'm seeing advertisements for Cabelas, picatinny rail mount hardware and the NRA when view as a guest. That is pretty durn topical.

Radagast
November 28, 2013, 10:11 PM
Oh, I get one in the mail each month from the SSAA, the Aussie NRA. Beyond that I don't know. I used to read Guns, American Handgunner, Guns & Ammo, SWAT, Handgunner, Sporting Shooter, Guns Australia, Combat Handguns, Shooting Times. Do any of them still exist?
I think I've made my point. $25 a year is a cheap subscription, especially if its voluntary.

Texan Scott
November 28, 2013, 11:12 PM
Plmitch: subtle. I like. Win.

jhop73
November 29, 2013, 10:50 AM
I didn't know there was the ability to be a contributing member until I saw this thread. Now I am one.

bikerdoc
November 29, 2013, 11:42 AM
Respect and admiration to jhop73 for stepping up.

Radagast
November 29, 2013, 12:21 PM
Strange. jhop72 now shows as a contributing member, where I don't.
Jshirley, let me know if the funds didn't go through and I'll try again.

JShirley
November 29, 2013, 12:28 PM
Done. We have to manually change your title.

jhop73
November 29, 2013, 12:30 PM
goto user options > group membership

Radagast
November 29, 2013, 12:32 PM
I was more worried that the bucks had disappeared somewhere in the electron stream.

jrdolall
November 29, 2013, 01:02 PM
I am now a "contributing member". With that contribution and $1 I can get a cup of coffe at Mcdonalds.
I don't think I had ever seen that as a possibility but it is well worth a few bucks to get so many opinions on different topics.

rbernie
November 29, 2013, 02:26 PM
I just signed up as a contributing member. First time I have heard of it and I am in every day, so maybe a sticky in each of the sub forums? Ditto.

Somehow, this ability escaped my notice. Fixed that.

Mike1234567
November 29, 2013, 03:02 PM
I don't care about a banner ad if it helps keep the site going. What I don't like are "other" forums with tons of automated links and pop-ups.

Mike1234567
November 29, 2013, 03:11 PM
Hmm... I didn't know there was a way to contribute so I don't think I ever have. I might have long ago but I can't recall... lousy memory these days. At any rate, I remedied my freeloading. :)

EDIT: I'm still seeing the ads. :D

Mal H
November 29, 2013, 03:35 PM
Mikenumbers - I hope no one gave the impression that a Contributing member would see no ads. That function would be practically impossible to build in. If you did see it somewhere, please report the post so we can correct it.

Telekinesis
November 29, 2013, 04:02 PM
Mikenumbers - I hope no one gave the impression that a Contributing member would see no ads. That function would be practically impossible to build in. If you did see it somewhere, please report the post so we can correct it.


Post 10 in this thread:


...Of course, as a premium paying member, I don't see the ads.


I think it was a joke, but at that time I thought the whole idea of a THR paying membership was a joke as well. For what it's worth, I'm on here almost every day and I had no idea there was even an option to be a contributing member.

9mmepiphany
November 29, 2013, 04:13 PM
Post 10 in this thread:

I think it was a joke, but at that time I thought the whole idea of a THR paying membership was a joke as well. For what it's worth, I'm on here almost every day and I had no idea there was even an option to be a contributing member.
I would have guessed it was a joke too, since it was prefaced by:

Y'all could always demand they cancel your memberships and refund your paid dues. That'd show 'em.

jhop73
November 29, 2013, 04:24 PM
Heck click on the ad's, that will make money for the site also.

Mike1234567
November 29, 2013, 04:35 PM
Mikenumbers - I hope no one gave the impression that a Contributing member would see no ads. That function would be practically impossible to build in. If you did see it somewhere, please report the post so we can correct it.
Awe heck. It doesn't matter. I don't mind a few banners. I would have contributed anyway. This is one of the very best and most valuable forums on the web.

Mike1234567
November 29, 2013, 04:39 PM
Heck click on the ad's, that will make money for the site also.
I just clicked on ten different banners. :D

blarby
November 29, 2013, 06:34 PM
A forum knife was created for those who wanted a unique and useful knife while also contributing a little to forum costs. Sales have been underwhelming.

While a cool gadget- I think a folder would have sold much better.

If a similar 2" (or therabouts) THR folder does pop up- put me at the top of the list for one.

Texan Scott
November 29, 2013, 07:35 PM
MEA CULPA... that was a joke, or meant to be :(

I had no idea such a capability actually existed.

ole farmerbuck
November 29, 2013, 08:13 PM
I might have to get a Generac generator now.

ole farmerbuck
November 29, 2013, 08:14 PM
Why are some words showing up in ORANGE for the last 2 days?

hso
November 29, 2013, 10:09 PM
A folder would have been more expensive. Much more.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 06:26 AM
Now I'm getting popups in the lower right hand corner of the pages . This is the onlu site I'm having trouble with. When I started typing this, I looked up and wasnt even showing this page. I had to start over. SAD!

fallout mike
November 30, 2013, 07:39 AM
Even though I recently had a post deleted for my bad spelling and grammar I found it in my myself to pay up. $25 a year is a heck of a deal for this forum. I could care less about the ads. It's easy enough to overlook them if I so choose. This thread is also the first I've heard of a paying membership.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 07:57 AM
Even though I recently had a post deleted for my bad spelling and grammar I found it in my myself to pay up. $25 a year is a heck of a deal for this forum. I could care less about the ads. It's easy enough to overlook them if I so choose. This thread is also the first I've heard of a paying membership.
I've been a paid member for over a year now and I reallu dont like the pop up coming up in the lower right hand corner when trying to read a post.

fallout mike
November 30, 2013, 08:06 AM
I haven't seen that yet. I'm usually on some sort of mobile device. Maybe that's why? Anyhow, I think we should have a lightning bolt next to our names as well so everyone will know we are special. Like Owen Wilson wanted for being the best man on the movie You, Me and Dupree.

ugaarguy
November 30, 2013, 08:21 AM
Now I'm getting popups in the lower right hand corner of the pages . This is the onlu site I'm having trouble with.
Alright, that's a problem. There should not be any pop ups. I'll forward this to the admin gurus.

JShirley
November 30, 2013, 08:42 AM
THR doesn't do any popups. Have you deleted your cache and restarted your browser?

John

jhop73
November 30, 2013, 08:43 AM
If you are getting pop ups, I would check your computer for vermin, same thing when you start seeing highlighted words in the posts. look for rogue toolbars , run spybot search and destroy and whatever other spyware detection software you have.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 08:48 AM
I just ran PC Cleaner. I havent seen anything in orange yet or the adds.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 08:51 AM
Woops. Still getting some words in Orange. hmmm

ugaarguy
November 30, 2013, 09:03 AM
Are the orange highlighted words hyperlinks?

jhop73
November 30, 2013, 09:20 AM
try a different browser and see what happens.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 11:25 AM
Are the orange highlighted words hyperlinks?
Yes they are. Now getting adds on bottom right again. I just ran spybot too.

Mal H
November 30, 2013, 11:31 AM
I have heard that folks get very good results using Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org/). You definitely have some sort of virus or spybot infection.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 11:36 AM
I have heard that folks get very good results using Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org/). You definitely have some sort of virus or spybot infection.
I have Malwarebytes on here too. I'll try it. Yesterday I paid my subscription for AVG and ran a scan. It showed nothing.

Mike1234567
November 30, 2013, 11:51 AM
Just to be sure... the two ads at the bottom of each page belong there, right? BTW, since I bought a new PC with Win-8 I no longer use anything but Win-Defender. Oddly enough (so far) it's kept my PC clean from all type of malware. Go figure!!

Mal H
November 30, 2013, 11:59 AM
Yes, those two ads do come from THR.

Radagast
November 30, 2013, 12:18 PM
I'm on a new PC as of last week. I was running AVG free on the old one, still ended up with a couple of viruses that Avast found when I loaded it for an extra check before mothballing the old one. So I wouldn't trust AVG to find everything.

On the new machine (Windows 8) I'm running Firefox & IE with Avast & Webroot Secure, no other add ons.
In IE I see the two banner adds. In Firefox I don't see any adds. There are no pop ups, no orange text and no clickable text links with either browser.

On the old machine I ran no-script as an Firefox add on. Great for killing pop ups, re-directs and unwanted auto playing music and video. Still didn't stop me from picking up a couple of viruses though.

Personally I have zero issue with adds. When I use IE the few I see are directly related to past search history for products I want to buy anyway. If I was getting adds for ball gags and gimp suits; depends & false teeth; pregnancy tests or other things completely unrelated to my interests or life, then I might be mildly annoyed and spend the 5 minutes required to block them.

blarby
November 30, 2013, 02:36 PM
I love the "give a gift......of goat........."

I'm not sure where they pulled that one from my cookie drawer- but I had to share its awesomeness.

Mal H
November 30, 2013, 02:49 PM
This is almost funny - before now all I ever saw were firearm/hunting/reloading ads. Now after posting about malwarebytes above, I just saw an ad saying, "Remove Malware Free". Looks like Googleads is definitely sending ads based on thread content.

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 02:52 PM
Ran malwarebytes and AVG. Avg said I had a virus. Not now though. Seems good now.

blarby
November 30, 2013, 03:21 PM
trying something.

cookie cookie cookie

cookie cookie cookie


cookie cookie cookie


cookie cookie cookie

blarby
November 30, 2013, 03:23 PM
Nope, still gift of goat, malware removal, and credit union banners.

I think its filtered per person, not thread, as Adsense is prone to do.

If you clear out your cookies, you should get the random bunch, and it'll start filtering the minute you use your browser for things OTHER than THR.


So, here's a question :

Is THR getting paid for :

1. Just having the ads

2. #1+ Hits

3. #1 + Purchases/ inquiries.

If its #2, we could probably have some new physical servers for Derek in about a weeks' time....

ugaarguy
November 30, 2013, 05:47 PM
I love the "give a gift......of goat........."

I'm not sure where they pulled that one from my cookie drawer- but I had to share its awesomeness.
Blarby, I'm sorry you're seeing that, but thanks for sharing. It is funny.

JShirley
November 30, 2013, 06:02 PM
Larry,

Usually it's hits.

John

fallout mike
November 30, 2013, 06:25 PM
I'm still waiting on my lightning bolt...

ole farmerbuck
November 30, 2013, 08:06 PM
I just logged back on here and after going to page four, I started getting the orange hyperlinks again! Wasnt getting them anywhere before, only here.:fire:

Radagast
November 30, 2013, 11:48 PM
Malware bytes has a forum, you could ask about it there.
https://forums.malwarebytes.org/

Avast has a free for 30 days option, ditto Ditto Webroot. Might be worth giving it a go, all it will cost is bandwidth.

Derek Zeanah
December 3, 2013, 07:23 AM
Sorry to take so long to reply to this, folks. It's been a busy week for me with offline stuff.

So, here's the deal: THR needs money to keep running, plus there are some expenses I ran up during the clone wars that I'd like to eventually pay off, and that means we need a revenue source. My goal was to sell advertising directly to advertisers that are relevant here: gun manufacturers, retailers, and so on. I even went so far as to sign up for a sales class at the local college and I had the highest grade in the class, and I've been to the SHOT show a few times now talking with advertisers who are excited to talk about advertising here, but who never seem to do so when they design their ad budget each year.

The truth of the matter is this: Derek Zeanah sucks at direct sales.

That's painful to admit, and I've been hiding from it, and I've spent a couple of hundred hours working on different methods of trying to attack the problem, but I still suck at sales. My next step was to move to insure all of our advertising was "above the fold," by reducing the number of ads shown but making sure that the one ad per page was really visible in the hope that advertisers would respond more effectively to that, but Staff talked me out of it. Instead, we're going with more ads and a wider net of advertisers, so we're showing ads that are still relevant, but not necessarily directly related to shooting. They might be relevant to you (or someone else who uses your computer) instead.

What that means is this: We're still selling ads directly, at least on occasion. Those will continue to show up here.
We're using a gun-related ad company for fillers as well, which will continue to show the sorts of ads you've been seeing.
We've opened the advertising up to third-party networks as well, and we let them show ads if they are willing to pay more for the ad space than the gun-related network.
This means that you'll see ads related to your interests, not just shooting. If you were researching something on Amazon, or Newegg, or eBay, or someplace like that, then those retailers are willing to pay us to show you an ad featuring whatever it was you were looking at, hoping you'll complete the sale. If you're looking for a new truck and you browse Chevy's site, you're going to start seeing Chevy ads. That's the way Internet Marketing works in late 2013.
This is especially true now, since we're in the biggest sale season of the year. This is the time when advertising budgets are burning through cash very quickly, and lots and lots of advertisers are bidding for ad slots. We have set a floor on ads so that below a certain price we'll just show ads for nonprofits, but between now and the end of the year I don't expect to see many of those in rotation.
Ads are also delivered based on page content. I've seen "join the NRA" ads on pages where the NRA is being discussed, and I've seen ads for banks on a page where y'all were talking about credit unions. In the latter case it's not directly relevant to what we're doing here, but you can understand why the ads made it onto the site.

If the ads are really stressing you out, there are a couple of options: Just install an ad blocker. You won't see ads, and THR won't make that fraction of a penny from your browsing that you would have seen otherwise. I see this as kind of selfish, but I'm biased.
Become a contributing member. As of last night those folks don't see ads. Or at least, I tried to configure things that way. If you're a contributing member and you're seeing ads, PM me.But at the end of the day this place costs money to run, and it's a popular site so it should be able to support itself. Nobody likes ads, and when given a choice we'd all prefer ads we don't see or notice, but it turns out advertisers aren't willing to pay money to buy ads nobody sees. So there's going to be some visibility to ads.

What we have now was a first-run. There's a real strong chance I'll gather data, move things around, see how to the new layout does, and so on. I'll try hard not to be annoying about it, but we need the ad revenue.

Sorry I'm not better at the whole direct sales thing. I'd still prefer a world with one ad per page where THR gets paid well for that ad. But my attempts to create that world have failed.

Derek Zeanah
December 3, 2013, 07:33 AM
I just logged back on here and after going to page four, I started getting the orange hyperlinks again! Wasnt getting them anywhere before, only here.
You shouldn't be seeing orange hyperlinks anywhere, or at least if you are then we aren't doing it.

We have software installed that can do that, but we're not using it, and if we did the underlined hyperlinks would be black, not orange.

It might be worth trying another browser and seeing if they still show up.

ole farmerbuck
December 3, 2013, 07:45 AM
Ok. I just went back to internet explorer. I was on chrome. So for, so good.

rbernie
December 3, 2013, 07:48 AM
Become a contributing member. As of last night those folks don't see ads. Or at least, I tried to configure things that way. If you're a contributing member and you're seeing ads, PM me.Thanks, Derek. I'd have been a Contributing Member even with ads, but no ads certainly makes the minimal investment required seem like an even better deal. :)

Sam1911
December 3, 2013, 08:03 AM
Derek, I'm a bit humbled by the amount of care you've put into this -- to balance the competing needs and keep THR's level of commercial noise low. Self-sustaining is certainly far less than you could, and maybe even SHOULD, expect. We support your decisions and will continue to as you tweak things for optimum balance.

...

And we also thank you very much for your patience with those of us who don't like change and take a while to catch on to how these things work. :o :)

ole farmerbuck
December 3, 2013, 08:07 AM
And we also thank you very much for your patience with those of us who don't like change and take a while to catch on to how these things work.
__________________
Hmm, I know someone just like that.:)

jrdolall
December 3, 2013, 08:20 AM
I noticed that ALL adds are now gone from the threads. The OP that initiated the thread was talking about the banner add that popped up every time you opened a thread but it seems like I always saw ads at the end of the thread. As of right now in this thread i see no ads at all

Radagast
December 3, 2013, 08:22 AM
That's because Derek has removed the paid adds for paid members. Consider it a perk if you found them annoying.

Derek Zeanah
December 3, 2013, 08:36 AM
Here's to hoping I don't get complaints about not seeing ads from contributing members now...

:uhoh:

jrdolall
December 3, 2013, 08:58 AM
I was really looking forward to seeing ads from The Beverly Hilton. You know how much a redneck from Alabama likes to stay in swanky Hollywood hotels and "party with the pretty girls".
You put ads on here we will complain. You take ads off here we will complain. You ask us what caliber is best for SD and we will argue for 9,000 posts.
Derek FYI I spend over 30 years in direct sales and it can be the toughest thing imaginable.

JShirley
December 3, 2013, 06:22 PM
We can turn ads on if a Contributing Member wants to see them, but since CMs have already directly contributed to funding THR's expenses, they will be defaulted to off.

John

BullfrogKen
December 3, 2013, 10:40 PM
People don't like change.

Books have been written on dealing with it. People make livings helping managers and business leaders to get their workforce to adjust to change.

This is change.


And I like it.

Nite Ryder
December 3, 2013, 11:34 PM
Qoute:Ya'all want some cheese with that wine.


Good answer, Bickerdoc.

RetiredUSNChief
December 4, 2013, 12:07 AM
It's kind of annoying at first, but after a short while it just fades into the background for me. It's a single, thin ad link posted only under the first comment on the page. No big deal.

The site doesn't require any membership dues, it doesn't put food on the table or a roof over my head. No complicated login requirements, no credit card identification requirement, no personal investment of my own except whatever time and effort I put into the site myself.

In otherwords...it's a free ride for people like me. But SOMEBODY has to pay the bills to keep the site up and running. If it's not coming from people like me...then where from?

A single ad banner on a web page which is otherwise barren of such things?


Meh.


But I like cheese...so can I have some anyway? I could go for some smoked Gouda right now!

:)

BullfrogKen
December 4, 2013, 12:19 AM
I just did the $25.00 thingee myself and yes indeed, I see no more ads.

blarby
December 4, 2013, 03:38 AM
The truth of the matter is this: Derek Zeanah sucks at direct sales.

Thats ok- if everyone could do it, it wouldn't be a worthwhile profession.

PM inbound

RustHunter87
December 4, 2013, 08:51 AM
I really just wanted to know why its under the first post breaking up the thread?
If you had placed it up top above the first post I wouldnt have complained, and no of course its not a big deal its just annoying that's all and I am getting over it slowly.

By the way Derek, thank you, for what its worth I think you do a great job keeping the site up and running I also dont blame you for selling ad space one bit.
PS. You fought in the clone wars? I thought you were just a navigator on a spice freighter???

fallout mike
December 4, 2013, 09:07 AM
Even though I've paid I don't mind seeing the adds if it helps out.

Derek Zeanah
December 4, 2013, 12:05 PM
I really just wanted to know why its under the first post breaking up the thread?
If you had placed it up top above the first post I wouldnt have complained, and no of course its not a big deal its just annoying that's all and I am getting over it slowly.
Well, that was the first idea: put it above the entry post on a page so it's visible, it's above the fold, and it doesn't break things up.

I wasn't able to figure out how to do what without editing the base vBulletin code though, and doing that risks breaking all sorts of other things that were installed, so...

Mal H
December 4, 2013, 12:23 PM
Although I wasn't crazy about the ad placement below the post either, I later saw how it was an advantage for the advertiser paying for the space. If you link into a thread at anywhere other than the top, the ad will be placed just below the post you linked to and not necessarily the first post on the page.

Here's a simple example of what I mean using page 2 of this thread, note how the placement of the post ad puts it in the view of the reader initially: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9223017#post9223017

BullfrogKen
December 4, 2013, 12:27 PM
PS. You fought in the clone wars? I thought you were just a navigator on a spice freighter???


OK I don't care who you are, that was funny.

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2013, 01:45 PM
I later saw how it was an advantage for the advertiser paying for the space. If you link into a thread at anywhere other than the top, the ad will be placed just below the post you linked to and not necessarily the first post on the page.


I didn't realize that. That really is a good selling point for prospective advertisers.

The point is to get readers to click on the ads...that is what tells the advertiser that the placement is effective for their dollars spent...it doesn't matter if you buy anything.

There is a mathematical formula of how many sales will result proportional to the number of clicks

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2013, 01:46 PM
PS. You fought in the clone wars? I thought you were just a navigator on a spice freighter???
Did you just fuse a reference between Star Wars and Dune? ;)

RetiredUSNChief
December 4, 2013, 02:47 PM
I didn't realize that. That really is a good selling point for prospective advertisers.

The point is to get readers to click on the ads...that is what tells the advertiser that the placement is effective for their dollars spent...it doesn't matter if you buy anything.

There is a mathematical formula of how many sales will result proportional to the number of clicks

Soooo...

If we just click on the ads but don't buy anything, ad companies will flock to Derek with money to keep this site up?

Things that make you say "Hmmm...."

:neener:

I guess I can do my bit for Derek, then!

desidog
December 4, 2013, 03:15 PM
Initially, there were no ads. Then, there were ads that only pertained to 2A / RTKBA; while not signed in. Then the ads migrated to commercial stuff too. Then they show up when you're signed in too....

Out of curiosity, how were the expenses covered before the "clone wars"?
What are the expenses of running this site, roughly speaking? Have they risen lately?
Do Mods get paychecks? (I assume you all traveled to SHOT on THR's dime(?).)

Derek Zeanah
December 4, 2013, 04:11 PM
If we just click on the ads but don't buy anything, ad companies will flock to Derek with money to keep this site up?

Things that make you say "Hmmm...."
Nope. Only click ads if you're interested in the product/service advertised.

Sam Cade
December 4, 2013, 05:12 PM
Did you just fuse a reference between Star Wars and Dune? ;)



Solo was a Clone Wars vet (where he won the Correlian Bloodstripe 2nd class) AND made the Kessel Spice run on occasion.
:o


edit: Reread. Oh lord. HE DID fuse the two....

BullfrogKen
December 4, 2013, 05:44 PM
When Obi Won tells Luke he fought with his father in the Clone Wars . . .

"No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter."
"That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals...thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."
"YOU fought in the Clone Wars?"
"Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight. The same as your father."

jrdolall
December 4, 2013, 06:52 PM
Do you guys watch The Big Bang Theory too.

Sam Cade
December 4, 2013, 07:30 PM
90% of the intra-moderator conversation here is about either Star Wars or Tolkien.
:D

Derek Zeanah
December 4, 2013, 07:33 PM
It could use more Dune, honestly.

In the book I'm reading, Gurney Halleck just found out that Paul is Muad'dib...

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2013, 07:43 PM
"No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter."
Oh...for some reason, I was thinking Navigators of the Spacing Guild transporting the spice, Melange

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3217/3110902993_439d8d74ec.jpg

JShirley
December 4, 2013, 08:07 PM
Desi,

The briefest summary of expenses is that, early on, a lot of moderators donated, but Derek has always born the lion's share. THR is much larger than it was starting out, of course. This gives us the chance to demonstrate the best of firearms ownership to a wider audience, but hardware and bandwith ain't free.

John

ugaarguy
December 4, 2013, 08:07 PM
Out of curiosity, how were the expenses covered before the "clone wars"?
What are the expenses of running this site, roughly speaking? Have they risen lately?
I'll let Derek answer on specific expenses if he wants. The expenses were covered out of Derek's pocket for years. Yes, it's gotten far more expensive to run because our bandwidth and server usage have grown exponentially. The previous ad layout wasn't covering the expenses, and Derek was going further into debt. The new ad layout and content is too new to know if it will even cover ongoing expenses.

Do Mods get paychecks? (I assume you all traveled to SHOT on THR's dime(?).)
No, we don't get paid. We're volunteers who this because we care about this site and RKBA issues.

No, we don't all get to go to SHOT either. I think Derek, JShirley and 9mm Epiphany were the only ones who went last year. I don't think Derek paid for the other two to go, but I've never asked.

I and hso went to Blade this year on our own dimes, and volunteered with Knife Rights. If I wasn't a 2-ish our hour drive from the part of metro Atlanta where Blade is held I couldn't afford to go.

Mike1234567
December 4, 2013, 08:15 PM
Hats off to our Mods for answering certain inquiries while keeping things in perspective and keeping their cool.:)

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2013, 08:27 PM
Do Mods get paychecks? (I assume you all traveled to SHOT on THR's dime(?).)
If we do, I haven't seen one :rolleyes:

I didn't go to SHOT this year, but I'm going in 2014. I'm going on my own dime, but my Media credentials through THR allowed me access. (boy, airfare has gone up in the last couple of years). I going with friends, who have access through an FFL; but I'll still report back on interesting stuff

BullfrogKen
December 4, 2013, 08:47 PM
You didn't get the memo we were getting a raise in January?

Twice what we got paid last year.

Sam Cade
December 4, 2013, 08:54 PM
I made the mistake of reading the first couple of those Kevin J. Anderson "Dune" novels when they came out.

Abominations.
:barf:

Radagast
December 4, 2013, 10:30 PM
Can't disagree Sam. Original Herbert books? Read the story and be immersed in the world. Read the cash in series? Always aware that I was holding paper and ink in front of me.

Now if you throw in Monty Python discussion along with Tolkien and Star Wars... I'll volunteer as a Mod just to have access to the chat channel!

Years ago I sat in at the national level meeting of a shooting association. The financial report was in, we were going broke and needed a $20 members fee rise to stay solvent. The argument went on for 20 minutes. Too much. People will complain. How to justify it. People will drop out. Yada Yada Yada. I broke protocol as an observer and pipe up, pointed out that they were discussing less than the cost of a box of ammo, that the average range trip cost twice as much and if we went broke there wouldn't be any shoots to go to. The fee rise was passed and we remained in business.

It sounds like THR is in a similar bind and having a similar argument. Add revenues are generally miniscule unless you are a major site with major click through. Anyone who gives a damn about keeping THR afloat should forget the adds and pony up 25 bucks. That way we as a group can stay afloat to argue about 9 vs 45, Glock vs 1911 or whatever.

The other option is giving commercial advertisers effective editorial control of the forums. I am aware of three forums where criticism of commercial advertisers or good reviews of their competitors products will get you banned or shouted down. I come to THR because I don't need that.

Adds can be blocked anyway - they already were in my main browser, so arguing about adds is arguing for the point of argument.

THR. Less than the cost of a box of ammo. Pony up.

blarby
December 5, 2013, 12:25 AM
Nope. Only click ads if you're interested in the product/service advertised.

So don't turn the macros on ?

Thats why I asked about clicks in the first place............. :D

I'm always interested in what is offered here on the ads, so much so that I could really view them 30-35 times per minute, give or take....

RetiredUSNChief
December 5, 2013, 12:36 AM
I made the mistake of reading the first couple of those Kevin J. Anderson "Dune" novels when they came out.

Abominations.
:barf:

For my own part, I could never get into Dune at all. Way back in my early days in the Navy, I had a buddy who absolutely loved them and tried to bet me to read them...but at the time, I didn't have any spare time to delve into other books, so I never started them.

Then it turned out that my buddy wasn't really much of a buddy at all. Well...let's just say that "buddy" was only half a word when it came to him. The other half of the word had a lot to do with what he and my first wife were doing behind my back.

So that association turned me off to the Dune series and I could never get into them no matter how I tried.

Star Wars is a classic...and though I love the movies, I'm nowhere near the SW buff my wife is.

Likewise for Tolkien...I've read everything, but it's been so many years that much has faded. Which should make re-reading a joy, if I ever get around to it.

ole farmerbuck
December 5, 2013, 05:02 AM
Do Mods get paychecks? (I assume you all traveled to SHOT on THR's dime(?).)
If we do, I haven't seen one

So, this is kind of like farming? ha

hso
December 5, 2013, 07:12 AM
Out of curiosity, how were the expenses covered before the "clone wars"?

Out of Derek's pocket and a few others, donations from the volunteer Mods, "fund drive" donations by members (very few members).

What are the expenses of running this site, roughly speaking? Have they risen lately?

Since it is a business I'm not sure that's something we should expect to be privy to.

Do Mods get paychecks?

Bwahahahahaaaaaaaa

Ahem, no. This is an unpaid part time job that we do on our "free" time with our own equipment.

(I assume you all traveled to SHOT on THR's dime(?).)

Nope, again, more of that silly volunteer foolishness.

ole farmerbuck
December 5, 2013, 08:09 AM
Out of Derek's pocket and a few others, donations from the volunteer Mods, "fund drive" donations by members (very few members).



I'll donate if you'll pick up some RL 15 and drop it by my house!:)

JShirley
December 5, 2013, 03:06 PM
Those who've made the effort to pitch in (as you have) have already done your part, and we thank you. :)

John

RustHunter87
December 5, 2013, 06:52 PM
Ken knew exactly what I was referencing, and similarities with anything Dune related was a coincidence...

BullfrogKen
December 5, 2013, 09:02 PM
Oh, I got it the minute I read it.

:cool:



'cause I'm a total geek.


:rolleyes:

Sam Cade
December 5, 2013, 09:57 PM
Alpha Geek.

desidog
December 6, 2013, 10:58 AM
What are the expenses of running this site, roughly speaking? Have they risen lately?
Since it is a business I'm not sure that's something we should expect to be privy to.


I'm sorry if anyone took offense at my questions. I infer that's what Mike was referring to as well.

I do not give to non-profits that can't demonstrate exactly where the money goes; and i think that if you ask for contributions to anything, let alone a private business and not a non-profit charity, it is a reasonable request.

On a similar vein, if i pass a homeless man with an alcohol- or meth-scared face with cardboard sign begging for food, i might buy him a sandwich, but i won't just give him cash.

Sam1911
December 6, 2013, 12:32 PM
and i think that if you ask for contributions to anything, let alone a private business and not a non-profit charity, it is a reasonable request.
Really? I mean, THR is a service provided free of charge to anyone who wants to join (or just to look). It is provided out of the financial generosity of a very, very few, plus the time contributions of a handful of others to guide and moderate content.

If you like what the site provides, you may wish to contribute a bit of money to assist with its maintenance. Or not. That's up to you. Obviously, some commercial content has had to be allowed here in the last couple of years to try and take care of the costs of running the place, but aside from a small bit of screen clutter, nothing has been demanded of any member, no matter how much they get out of the site.

Look at it this way: Someone sets up a booth with coolers and signs reading "Free Drinks! Take all you want!" And some volunteers are there helping folks find their flavor and keeping the line orderly. In one corner of the booth is a can for donations.

Would you ask to see an income statement or P&L report before you drop a buck in the can? :scrutiny:

If you like what you get out of THR, click on an ad or two if there's something that interests you -- or if you've really been helped by the place, maybe consider the contributing membership. What the hey, it get's the ads turned off for you.

Or don't.

Asking Derek for financial information seems ... I don't know ... a bit much.

And comparing this to a drug-addicted bum begging for food? Pretty raw, dude.

JShirley
December 6, 2013, 12:49 PM
Desi:

1. THR is not a "non profit".

2. No one asked for a donation. Contribute directly, and you won't see ads.

I don't want to know what you do with homeless people for fun and information. No-one did any begging, just some explanation.

Compare THR to homeless begging meth addicts? Of course you mean no offense. :rolleyes:

jrdolall
December 6, 2013, 01:15 PM
It's $25! That's the max I saw. Now I know that for some people that's a decent amount of money(been there done that) but for a lot of people it doesn't even register on the CC statement. I spent more than that on a box of ammo I bought yesterday for a new revolver that I won't shoot 50 times in the next five years and I drove 70 miles to get it!

No contributions are necessary to enjoy what THR offers(good AND bad). I didn't even know it was an option until this thread started.

PS I heard that "contributing members" will soon see scantily clad photos of beautiful women when they click on a thread;)

JShirley
December 6, 2013, 01:20 PM
There are no scantily clad pictures of either sex.

Derek Zeanah
December 6, 2013, 02:02 PM
OK, folks. This topic has served its purpose, veered into Star Wars vs Dune (and whether I should be compared to mutants or Darth Vader), and now we're on to arguments as to whether THR should be a 501(C)3 corporation so people can deduct a $25 contribution if they choose to contribute, and we can be subject to IRS rules re: elections and support of candidates and so forth, in exchange for accounting/reporting costs/requirements associated with nonprofit status.

No thanks.

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