H&k Kaboom


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hollowpointt
March 28, 2004, 09:52 AM
Just wondering where all the people who love to trash Glock for the overblown KB issue are. HK has the same issue posted on this website by gggman, but the Glock haters are silent. The silence says it all. Please do not come back with the double charge statement since most Glock KB's are due to reloads also.

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tc300mag1
March 28, 2004, 09:56 AM
Still see more Glock blow up that HK's:neener: :neener: All i can say is dont shoot anyone elses reloads but your own and if ya want to shoot lead get a new barrel

Kilroy
March 28, 2004, 10:24 AM
Still see more Glock blow up that HK's

Which is the price you pay for dominating so many markets. When you have far more handguns out there then other brands; jealousy and shooter induced problems become grist for the mill.

Lobotomy Boy
March 28, 2004, 10:27 AM
After a decade-long absence I got back into guns, hunting, and target shooting. I enjoy activities that tend to attract fellow lunatics. Since reentering the gun hobby I've noticed that the craziest of the crazies (and I mean that affectionately) are the 1911 lovers and the Glock haters. The two camps have most, if not all of the hallmarks of a religion.

BLKLABMAN
March 28, 2004, 10:41 AM
I have recently seen two H&K's, KB in IDPA matches. The people were shooting reloads.
One was very nasty, peeling the backstrap of the pistol grip like a banana.

Salival
March 28, 2004, 10:58 AM
I might as well start off on the wrong foot (first post) ;)

I'm a H&K guy but I had a minor KB with my USP while shooting reloads. I don't reload myself but I at the range with a friend and I ran out of ammo. He had a 'bag' of reloaded 9mm so I started using it. About 6 rounds into the magazine I noticed a strange kick and flash and my magazine fell out onto the bench! The slide was locked half-way back and the case was half in and half out of the chamber. it was budged and split and I could not remove it until I got home. Luckily my USP suffered no damage but I will never use reloads again. I figured out that the case must have been budged a little, preventing the case from completely entering the chamber...when this happened it wasn't supported enough and blew out.

I think this is probably what happens to Glocks too. I guess that is why most manufactures recommend against shooting reloads?

ThreadKiller
March 28, 2004, 11:29 AM
Some people are just sloppy reloaders. Beware reloaders with catchy nicknames like "Stumpy" or "Lefty".

Reloading is not difficult but care must be exercised at all times.

If in doubt, throw it out!

Tim

45R
March 28, 2004, 11:30 AM
All guns have the potential to Kb.


Take care of them, feed them nice ammo and situational awareness while shooting will help decrease these incidents.

Sarge
March 28, 2004, 11:33 AM
not to buy plastic guns in general.

Old Fuff
March 28, 2004, 11:52 AM
Salival:

I am glad that neither you nor your pistol suffered any serious damage, but I question your analysis about what happened. If the gun was not locked into battery the disconector should have prevented the pistol from firing. You can test this yourself by pulling back the slide slightly (or further) and then pulling the trigger. Under such circumstances I would expect the hammer to not fall. If for some reason it does you should return the gun to H&K at once to have it checked and/or repaired.

gggman
March 28, 2004, 01:57 PM
I have to concur with what Kilroy said. There are far many more Glocks out there, so it makes sense that there will be more KB's with glocks.
I would bet that there are very few KB's with any brand of gun that can't be attributed to "operator error". Such was the case with mine. I trusted a dealers word that the ammo he sold me was military surplus.:cuss:
From now on I will never use anything but factory ammo, or my own handloads.:scrutiny:
Don't let this happen to you!
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hk-kb.html

Wildalaska
March 28, 2004, 01:58 PM
Glocks ans HKs are junk, buy a Bersa

WildhasaspoonAlaska

kidcoltoutlaw
March 28, 2004, 02:33 PM
i think it comes from reloaders trying to save a few CENTS.load with a powder that is safe but fills the case it protects you against bullet setback and double charges.i call it kiss loads,thanks,keith

Clean97GTI
March 28, 2004, 03:48 PM
Which is the price you pay for dominating so many markets. When you have far more handguns out there then other brands; jealousy and shooter induced problems become grist for the mill.

CZ has more pistols out there than Glock. You don't hear about those blowing up. ;) Every pistol can blow up (even steel pistols) when combined with either unsafe ammunition or user carelessness/error/etc...
Don't assume that only reloads are over-pressure or use questionable cases. If I recall, Federal had some problems with several batches of .40. Granted, a lot of these showed up in Glocks, but the ammo could've just as easily destroyed a H&K, a CZ, or a 1911. The frames might not be blown apart, but heavy internal damage is equally possible.

kidcoltoutlaw
March 28, 2004, 03:55 PM
i don't like a glock or own one.but with more out there the odds are greater for the federal stuff finding it's way to a glock.why would they build a 40 high pressure round with such little case support in the first place,thanks,keith

Salival
March 28, 2004, 05:10 PM
Old Fuff,

My analysis was probably way off base and the cartridge may have been in the chamber. I recently read that all autoloaders have somewhat of an unsupported chamber...if this is true it's entirely possible that the case, while fully in the chamber, still failed and split. That is probably more plausible than my first conclusion and probably what happens to the Glocks, correct?

That failure (I never referred to it as a KB) happened about a year ago and I’ve since shot only factory ammo without incident. I do believe that reloads can be done right but I won’t shoot anymore of my friend’s reloads

Thanks for setting me straight :)

Wildalaska
March 28, 2004, 05:23 PM
CZ has more pistols out there than Glock. You don't hear about those blowing up.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahah

WildyeahrightAlaska

Old Fuff
March 28, 2004, 08:46 PM
Salival:

I think your second accounting is more probable, and it would appear that the incident was more likely caused by ammunition rather then the gun. But anyway, what I really brought it up for was too be sure you did check to be sure the disconector was functioning as it should. A disconector problem is unlikely, but possible.

Jim K
March 28, 2004, 09:33 PM
The ONLY reloads I shoot are my own. That way, if something goes wrong, I know the name of the SOB who goofed!

Jim

Sarge
March 29, 2004, 08:47 AM
That nearly as good as the "jealousy and shooter induced problems" post...

I had forgotten that NCIC was sending out all those "Nationwide Broadcast" teletypes of Glocks KaBooming, just because they were jealous of Glock.

Now THERE, my friend is the real

BWAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!

I guess loading and firing is a "shooter-induced" problem.

cratz2
March 29, 2004, 07:28 PM
CZ has more pistols out there than Glock. You don't hear about those blowing up.
CZ very may well have produced more guns total than Glock, but as far as police agencies in the United States... I doubt CZ has 1/100th the following as Glock and you simply cannot ignore the number of G21s, G22s and G23s out there when discussing Glock KBs.

I have nothing against Glocks and I would feel well armed carrying one... but it seems to me like a large percentage of the KBs have to do with lead ammo, reloaded ammo, reloaded lead ammo etc... it seems that every time a 'factory new' ammo is involved, it seems as though it is from a recent ammo change or a new load or something.

I don't care if 40 cal Glocks KB more than other guns... Until I see a Glock KB with new copper ammo with my own eyes, I group it all together with internet lore and BS gunshoptalkitis. :p

10Ring
March 29, 2004, 07:41 PM
It's also the brass. Brass that has been subjected to too many reloads will stress from heat. The metal becomes brittle and you can end up with a case head blowing out. Take care when you measure the charge AND discard the brass at regular intervals (which means you have to know how many times you've reloaded the case).

Grump
March 29, 2004, 09:25 PM
BLKLABMAN: Case failure or was the barrel/chamber also trashed? Can't tell, as a backstrap peeling could be from either, at least from what I've seen posted on the 'net.

Cratz2 said:
Until I see a Glock KB with new copper ammo with my own eyes, I group it all together with internet lore and BS gunshoptalkitis.
Well, I find the accounts of police agency kB!s quite believeable, and all I have heard of were with nonce-fired factory ammo with jacketed bullets. And there ain't no +P ammo being made by the big boy ammo makers, 'cause there ain't no +P standard for .40.:neener: :neener: :neener:

dawg23
March 30, 2004, 03:43 PM
Lobotomy Boy wrote: "After a decade-long absence I got back into guns, hunting, and target shooting. I enjoy activities that tend to attract fellow lunatics. Since reentering the gun hobby I've noticed that the craziest of the crazies (and I mean that affectionately) are the 1911 lovers and the Glock haters. The two camps have most, if not all of the hallmarks of a religion."

You mean they aren't all in one camp ??:neener:

BrokenArrow
March 30, 2004, 03:57 PM
Yep, all guns can and have kBd, that's for sure! Saw the remains of several Glocks and a Walther P99 that did it at the local indoor rental range w PMC factory ammo, the wimpy 165g FMJ at 985 fps. Damage ranged from hairline cracks in frames to ruptured bbls. Obviously bad ammo, but... why are they messing up the 40/45/357 ammo so much more than the 9?

OTOH, it sure does seem like the Glock 40/45/357 do it more often w more damage w factory ammo than the Glock 9s do or ever did, even w LE +P+ and mil spec ammo. So it could be the guns too?

OTOF (foot), ditto the other guns when comparing 9 to 40/45/357?

So...

If I can accept that Glock 40/45/357s may be closer to the edge than the Glock 9s, I can accept they may also be closer to the edge than some other guns for similar reasons, whatever they are.

Looking at a USP 40/45/357 bbl comapred to a Glock, not hard to accept the thicker chamber walls and additional case support might give me more margin for error before I go over the edge?

Still plenty of room to argue that makes the Glocks different, not defective, nor dangerous.

Viva la difference!?

Lobotomy Boy
March 30, 2004, 05:34 PM
I don't think that 1911 lovers and Glock haters are one and the same, but there seems to be a lot of cross overs. They may not be in the same camp, but their camps are located right next to each other and there is a big hole in the fence that they can crawl through and intermingle genetic material.

cidirkona
March 31, 2004, 01:17 PM
I don't own any plastic framed firearms yet -- but I do know this:

Engineering mantra: What doesn't bend will break.

-Colin

BrokenArrow
March 31, 2004, 04:31 PM
Well, so far, the only fatality I know of from a kB is from a Ruger .40, not a Glock. An all steel gun with mucho thick chamber walls and plenty of case support too.

Maybe too much? Case was so well supported the force (which had to go somewhere) blew the extractor out of the gun hard enough that when it hit the guy next to the shooter in the head, it killed him. :(

Grump
March 31, 2004, 06:25 PM
Did Ruger ever do those plugged barrel and cutaway slide tests with the .40s and .45s, that they did with the P85 way back when?

Be interesting to repeat those with everybody else's favorite guns.

tc300mag1
March 31, 2004, 08:14 PM
I Saw a p-90 they did it to and a PC4 that it was done to with a squib made it 10 rounds and finally cracked the barrel .. Cant rember where i saw the pc4 at on line but its out there.

BrokenArrow
April 1, 2004, 11:42 AM
An obstructed bore test is pretty common now; bullet lodged in bbl in front of chamber and another fired. To pass, gun must not be damaged and still capable of firing. FBI Glock 40s passed that test, and so did INS/BP Beretta 40s. SIGS, USPs, and Walthers too. All have kBd anyway.

Not as severe as the Ruger test, where they actually screwed a rod into the bbl and fired a round into that, all with a section of the slide removed.

Still, Ruger did fail the US mil spec testing that Beretta and SIG passed... one reason I've heard is that the guns were capable of "incorrect" reassembly after field strip. :uhoh:

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