Shoot-to-kill bodyguards protect Bush


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Waitone
March 28, 2004, 09:58 AM
<Poster's Comment>I am amazed at how much nonsense can be packed into one article.

http://www.sundayherald.com/38076

London protesters fear ‘trigger-happy’ agents
By Neil Mackay, Home Affairs Editor

ARMED US Secret Service agents will have the right to "shoot to kill" when they provide the bodyguard for President George W Bush on his controversial state visit to the United Kingdom this week.
Special agent Ann Roman, an official spokeswoman for the US Secret Service (USSS), told the Sunday Herald that the estimated 200 agents who will be in Britain to guard Bush would open fire if he were in danger or under threat.

When asked if US agents would use lethal force, Roman said: "We are trained to protect the President, so we will evaluate the situation and if the situation warranted action to that level then we'd do it."

The UK's security services have now been put on the second highest possible state of alert amid intelligence of a possible al-Qaeda attack. The Home Office said that SO19, the police firearms unit, also had the power to use lethal force. A spokesman said: "Our officers are allowed to shoot someone if it is deemed necessary, and the Americans will be under the same regulations."

More than 100,000 protesters will take to London's streets on Thursday for the Stop The War Coalition's "Stop Bush" demonstration. Organisers fear "trigger-happy US Secret Service agents" could over-react and kill protesters. Politicians opposing Bush's visit fear over-reaction by US agents could cause "mayhem" and want the trip cancelled.

Tensions are running high between the USSS and the Metropolitan Police. Although the Met is technically in charge of the security operation, the USSS is sticking to its decision to maintain its standard "rules of engagement", which means it will be in total control of all presidential protection regardless of the fact that it is operating in the UK. This has effectively sidelined the Met.

Senior Met officers fear a protester could be killed, particularly if an exclusion zone is put in place around the president as many in the USSS wish. The Met believes that if a demonstrator were to break through, the USSS "rules of engagement" could interpret this as a threat to Bush and result in a secret service agent shooting a civilian dead.

There is also considerable concern within the Met that the march could turn into a riot. Anarchist groups have made their way to London to take part in the demo, and there are fears that, if the march route is not long enough to accommodate the number of protesters, demonstrators will split up into small groups. This would cause the police to lose control of security, increasing the chances of the USSS over-reacting.

Protest organisers say they want to get as close to Bush as possible. Organisers will be talking with police chiefs tomorrow to finalise the route the march can take. More than 5000 police officers will also be on duty. Demonstrators say they want the "democratic right" to march down Whitehall and past Downing Street and the Houses of Parliament.

Linlithgow Labour MP Tam Dalyell, Father of the House of Commons and an outspoken critic of Tony Blair and Bush, said: "I'm appalled that US Secret Service agents will have the power of Œshoot to kill' in the UK. If they act on these powers they will create mayhem. The rug should be pulled from under this trip immediately and the whole thing cancelled."

Paul McBride QC warned that USSS agents could face criminal charges if they were to fire on civilians. "They have no special status in the UK, and if they use unreasonable force they could be charged with murder," he added. Bush will be staying in Buckingham Palace from Wednesday to Friday. He will also lay a wreath at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Westminster Abbey.

The big march on Thursday will be led by Americans under the banner "Proud of My Country, Shamed by My President". Friday will see a protest outside the US embassy against the prison camps for terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay.

Fears within the US administration that terrorists could use the huge crowds of British demonstrators as a cover to carry out attacks have led to requests from the US for the closing down of central London and the outlawing of anti-Bush marches.

A Home Office spokesman said the UK government was saying little about the American security arrangements, but agreed that the position put forward by the US Secret Service regarding the shoot to kill policy was "fair and accurate". The spokesman said there were "protocols" with the USSS "which allow them to go armed in this country".

There will be protests all week against Bush's visit, including demonstrations in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Mick Napier, one of the Stop The War Coalition's Scottish organisers, condemned "the US, a British ally, for suggesting it would deploy force against British citizens".

He added: "A peaceful demonstration by a campaign group is now faced by an armed force of the US state. This is surely a step too far for most British people. "Deaths have so far been avoided in the UK. It is intolerable that the US should police the streets of Britain. There is no question of any lethal threat from the Stop The War Coalition. We simply want to ruin Bush's election chances."

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son of a gun
March 28, 2004, 10:39 AM
Very few SS agents have shot people protecting the president, let alone innocent bystanders. Those fears are unfounded just like the UK'S fear of firearms.:rolleyes:

Walosi
March 28, 2004, 11:03 AM
My son, some years ago, was part of a USAF Protective Services team. Going to England with the AFCINC/Europe was frustrating. The Brits forbade any weapons - firearms carried bythe team were left in the plane, under guard. They "ta-ta'd" the American cowboy attitude, and told them "Not to worry, we have everything under control". The team normally did advance surveys of locations to be visited, and assessed potential problems. Not in England, because they had everything under control. A luncheon during a NATO meeting was scheduled at a downtown London restaurant. They arrived to find that their reserved tables were up front, next to the windows looking out onto the street, and the teams' tables were in the back of the dining room, as befits common rank. Great security. A large group of NATO top brass, next to the downtown windows, with their unarmed escorts conveniently parked out of the way. The Germans, OTOH, watched as they unloaded their cased heavy weapons from the plane, and just smiled and waved them through. A relative, living in the UK now, says that the average Brit males' greatest fear is a p****d off wife. Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmm?.

Redlg155
March 28, 2004, 11:26 AM
Ok..so turn around is fair play.

All visiting digitaries from the UK will have their security personnel carry rubber chickens and hair spray to thwart armed attackers.

Good Shooting
Red

Lone Star
March 28, 2004, 11:28 AM
So,...they're afraid that Bush's visit may be as violent as one of their own soccer games, which they seem to happily tolerate?

Lone Star

ThreadKiller
March 28, 2004, 11:33 AM
The "retrosexual" movement apparently isn't fairing too well in jolly old England. :)

Tim

Mastrogiacomo
March 28, 2004, 11:39 AM
The Brits don't impress me with their "civilized" ways and their "free thinking." Their laws protect the criminals rather than the law abiding citizens...literally. Amenesty International should stay in England and look into all the people of that country that have received life sentences for killing a violent attacker with a cane or their hands. Stupid. So why should it surprise anyone that they think of the Secret Service as trigger happy cowboys? Just another example of how ignorance rules in that country -- which is why it appeals to idiots from La-La Land -- you know -- anti gun actors that profit off of gun movies...If only we could get them all to move to England and bar them from ever working here again....

Hkmp5sd
March 28, 2004, 11:51 AM
Senior Met officers fear a protester could be killed, particularly if an exclusion zone is put in place around the president as many in the USSS wish. The Met believes that if a demonstrator were to break through, the USSS "rules of engagement" could interpret this as a threat to Bush and result in a secret service agent shooting a civilian dead.
I guess breaking through the security zone would be a very unwise thing to a demonstrator to do, unless they wish to commit suicide by cop.

Seems the British have been taking survival lessons from France. Surrender first, ask questions later.

Andrew Rothman
March 28, 2004, 11:58 AM
What exactly do these outspoken MPs think the rules of engagement are for the SAS troops in silly hats that guard the Royal Family and their own PM?

Think those rifles are just for show?

Pure political B.S.

Unfortunately, through their policy of civilian disarmament, they have primed their subjects to be very receptive to such nonsense.

Texasbagman
March 28, 2004, 12:08 PM
Protest organisers say they want to get as close to Bush as possible.

Doesn't anyone find it odd that they are pitching a bitch about our President's security and their rules of engagement, and then make the above statement?

4v50 Gary
March 28, 2004, 01:02 PM
The average British male fear is a pissed off wife? Heck, that's virtually any average male's fear.

Standing Wolf
March 28, 2004, 06:17 PM
Why would anyone want to go to England?

son of a gun
March 28, 2004, 06:39 PM
I post a lot on a message board that adolescents surf on an and every other day some kids from the UK ask "can you make a blank starter pistol into a real gun ?", "how do you convert a bb gun to a gun that can shoot bullets ?" and "can you shoot 12 gage slugs out of a 12 gage plastic flare gun ?" "Does anyone know where on-line you can order all the parts to build a Glock ?":what:

http://www.totse.com/bin/bbs/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Weapons+and+Combat&number=29&DaysPrune=45&LastLogin=

Third_Rail
March 28, 2004, 06:46 PM
I don't think that the UK is afraid of the SS carrying firearms and firing on innocents... they're afraid that the SS is going to be armed, and there won't be any incidents, undermining the "guns make babies explode" way of "thinking".

rayra
March 28, 2004, 07:33 PM
And these complaints / fears come from a bunch of Socialists parading around with signs saying 'STOP BUSH', where the 'O' is a bloody bullet hole. Or who still march in protests against PM Blair, with signs with multiple red bullet holes overlapping his name.

ESAD, Protesters. As long as you are advocating violence, you'll be MET with violence.

Jim K
March 28, 2004, 07:41 PM
Hi, Matt Payne,

Those guys in the silly hats are not SAS, and their rifles ARE just for show. The rifles are not loaded and the guards are prohibited from having ammunition at any time. If they have a real problem, their orders are to call the (unarmed) police.

The police, SAS and other security forces are strictly prohibited from firing on anyone, even terrorists, without permission from the Home Secretary.

It should be noted that when the British police do get hold of guns, they go berserk. In one case, an armed unit was alerted that a yellow VW with an IRA bomber and his girl friend was in the area. They riddled the car with over 40 bullets, a real "Bonnie and Clyde" ending. Wrong car, wrong people. The press was allowed to do the story for two days, then the Home Office shut them down and no more was heard of it.

In case you think that not having guns makes the Brit cops kind and gentle, maybe not. They reportedly have, on at least two occasions, castrated blacks with machetes, a favorite weapon of the "unarmed" police. Again, the press blackout was put on by the Home Office.

Jim

hapafish
March 28, 2004, 07:45 PM
I'd give several months' paychecks to be given an M249 and given orders to watch that "exclusion zone" with an ROE that lets me shoot 'em down at will. Since that isn't happening (especially the ROE bit) I wish the Secret Service people the best of luck dealing with those retards on the other end of the pond.

The commie pinkos who reside in the UK should be reminded of who saved their nation from the Nazis in a very abrupt way. What was given them ... can be taken away from them in a blaze of hellfire if they so desire. All they have to do is keep on pushing the envelope. Let them.

strambo
March 28, 2004, 08:35 PM
Irregardless of who the "show" guards are around Blair, I can't believe that their PM travels around at home or abroad without armed protection, and if he does indeed have armed protection then this whole article is absurd by any standard.
This would cause the police to lose control of security, increasing the chances of the USSS over-reacting. -from article

Umm, don't you mean "increasing the danger to the President", thereby, disproving your point and affirming that armed USSS agents were a wise decision? Strambo to Brit reporter: Kiss my Yank arse you git.:neener:

Zedicus
March 28, 2004, 09:03 PM
Jim Keenan:It should be noted that when the British police do get hold of guns, they go berserk. In one case, an armed unit was alerted that a yellow VW with an IRA bomber and his girl friend was in the area. They riddled the car with over 40 bullets, a real "Bonnie and Clyde" ending. Wrong car, wrong people. The press was allowed to do the story for two days, then the Home Office shut them down and no more was heard of it.

Don't forget the UK Cops that "Murdered" a Guy carrying a Table leg down a street after some panic merchant called the cops & "Claimed" the guy was carrying a rifle (which at the time was not yet a crime anyway).

According to the Reports, They didn't even tell the guy to drop the "Assumed" weapon or anything, They just Opened fire the second they spotted him...:scrutiny: :barf:

PATH
March 28, 2004, 09:03 PM
More inane silliness from the leftist labour party. If the Secret Service feels that deadly physical force is necessary then they will use it. It is the job of the British Government to make sure that no British "subject" gets close enough for that to be a necessity. End of story!

Gary H
March 28, 2004, 09:03 PM
Happy to bad mouth the English, but they do contribute when needed. They have been, with the Aussies and a few others, good friends. More than you can say for the French and Germans.

son of a gun
March 28, 2004, 10:03 PM
Happy to bad mouth the English, but they do contribute when needed. They have been, with the Aussies and a few others, good friends. More than you can say for the French and Germans.

I think it's the little brother syndrome I can beat on him but know one else can.

It could be of coarse that England tried to crush and oppress us a little while back remember that ?

Destructo6
March 28, 2004, 10:06 PM
Organisers fear "trigger-happy US Secret Service agents" could over-react and kill protesters.
More like they hope they can provoke a reaction to which they can rally sympathy. They would probably relish a "bloody Sunday."

tcsd1236
March 28, 2004, 10:12 PM
I wonder if Liz is still PO'd at George for tearing up her lawn at the big house on his last visit......

Cosmoline
March 29, 2004, 01:59 AM
The newspapers follow the movies, once again. The fictional Brits tried to disarm the Duke once. It didn't work in the film, either.

http://www.mgm.com/mgm/images/stills/MGMA000045-still_hires.jpg

cracked butt
March 29, 2004, 08:42 AM
ARMED US Secret Service agents will have the right to "shoot to kill"

AS opposed to their normal rules of engagement that limits them to "shoot to tickle?" :rolleyes:

sturmruger
March 29, 2004, 11:39 AM
I have seen secret service agents on several occasions. They are the most intense people I have ever seen!! They didn't just look at you, it was like they were looking through you to see if you had ill intentions. They also dress very nice. They all seem to have big coats I would imagine that is so they can hide SMG if they need to. I hope they have an uneventful visit to the UK.

David Park
March 29, 2004, 06:40 PM
ARMED US Secret Service agents will have the right to "shoot to kill" when they provide the bodyguard for President George W Bush US Secret Service agents also have the right, and the duty, to take a bullet from some deranged protestor trying to assassinate the President. Some people might consider that heroic, or at least worthy of respect. However, since all of the Bad People in the UK have been disarmed, I guess the USSS folks can just relax and hand out flowers. :rolleyes:

artherd
March 29, 2004, 08:53 PM
ARMED US Secret Service agents will have the right to "shoot to kill"

As opposed to what, the usual right to 'shoot to vaugely annoy?'

Madness.

Senior Met officers fear a protester could be killed, particularly if an exclusion zone is put in place around the president as many in the USSS wish. The Met believes that if a demonstrator were to break through, the USSS "rules of engagement" could interpret this as a threat to Bush and result in a secret service agent shooting a civilian dead.

Yeah, no ????, that's the purpose of an exclusion zone!

Maybe the dumbass protesters shouldn't commit assault on the leader of a country.

Moparmike
March 29, 2004, 09:32 PM
I say if the USSS isnt going to get to do its job, then an AT-AT should be built for Bush to travel in. If he is the supposed Leader of some horrific Empire, then he should at least travel like it. :D ;)

AT-AT:

http://www.erftbbs.de/Bilder/At-at-04.jpg

It needs loudspeakers to play the Imperial March (http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/guinea/851/emptheme.wav) for effect too.:evil:

hapafish
March 30, 2004, 02:41 AM
... I think I'm going to talk to the re-enlistment guys to see if I can get a job in one of those things. I wonder how long AT-AT school would be ... :confused:

gunsmith
March 30, 2004, 02:51 AM
Why would anyone want to go to England?

Well,I for one!
Where else would one go if he wanted to learn to speak/write English?;)

Funny though,these are the same agents that protected Clinton.
The spokesman should have said "we do not shoot to kill,we shoot to stop"

Of course some people stop better when they're dead.:p

grnzbra
March 30, 2004, 01:02 PM
Wouldn't Bush, Condi Rice, Powell et al have diplomatic immunity? Let them carry open (visulaize the lobby scene in the Matirx) surrounded by unarmed SS agents wearing hard external body armor.

Let's see, Dubya with a Thompson and a pair of pearl handled Single Action Armys, Condi with an Uzi and a pair of Glocks, and Colin with an M-60 with a long belt carried Rambo style and a pair of 1911s.

Moparmike
March 30, 2004, 02:37 PM
I would pay for the Pay-Per-View of that just for the Blissninny Head-Exploding Action!:evil:

bobs1066
March 30, 2004, 03:36 PM
As far as I can recall, the SS has never killed anybody that was bodily attacking the Pres. Squeaky Fromme & that other woman that tried to shoot Ford were both captured unhurt. The guys that killed McKinley & Garfield were captured alive & went to trial. Seeing as how the SS has been doing the presidental guard thing for well over a century, I don't see how they could be called 'trigger-happy'.
Of course the guy that shot Huey P. Long got lit up like a Christmas tree, but that was the Louisiana LEOs doing that

Azrael256
March 30, 2004, 03:39 PM
All this security planning stuff makes me think that nothing is going to happen. I remember the WTO meeting in Seattle having very poor planning on the part of law enforcement, but subsequent WTO gatherings haven't been so eventful. I would, however, find it really funny if some rabid anarchist tried to attack somebody and a Brit brought him down. Imagine the s**t storm from that.

Look for fun stuff in Athens this summer!

Frohickey
March 30, 2004, 03:56 PM
Yeah... before GWBush, secret service agents shoot to wound, or shoot to encourage involuntary bowel movements. :rolleyes:

Quartus
March 30, 2004, 03:58 PM
So,...they're afraid that Bush's visit may be as violent as one of their own soccer games, which they seem to happily tolerate?





Oooooh! Dare I call that a touchdown? :what:


:D


Of course some people stop better when they're dead.


:D

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