Beretta 92FS: The Gun I'd Love to Hate....


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SharpsDressedMan
December 1, 2013, 11:27 PM
but can't. For all the reasons many of us dislike the Beretta, specifically bulky, fat, clumsy, heavy or long trigger pull, obsolete, too big for the chambering, not as powerful as "real guns", etc. I hadn't owned a 9mm, .38, or even .357 for years, and then after adopting a penchant for caliber conversions for my 10mm 1911, I started to accept the 9mm as a "range" round, and took an interest in all the wonderful pistol designs that come in 9mm. Then this Beretta 92FS comes to me in the form of a deal too good to pass up: my brother's friend needed money for school. Still it needed an action job, and Teddy Jacobson probably did it as good as he could, but it was still heavier and longer than my CZ75. But crisp on single action. And there is the rub: the gun just shoots, and shoots. I can't remember a jam. The silhouette target came first, the warm up (if you can call standing, two hands at 25 yards in 29 degree weather a "warm up"). Not totally pleased, I got a little mad, and buckled down, and fired a three shot at the same distance on a bullseye target. Now THAT is why I just can't hate the Beretta 92. I cannot do much better with my SIG P210, even after much work. These 61 year old eyes are not working as well as they used to, so sometimes things don't get better because of ME. So, if you haven't wrung out a Beretta recently, it just may surprise you, or even grow on you. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC06705_zpsf9aafcca.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/matquig/media/DSC06705_zpsf9aafcca.jpg.html) http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC06707_zpsde49e798.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/matquig/media/DSC06707_zpsde49e798.jpg.html) http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC06706_zps66b42f9b.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/matquig/media/DSC06706_zps66b42f9b.jpg.html) PS: That is a half size silhouette (B29), so the group is smaller than it appears.

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C0untZer0
December 2, 2013, 12:12 AM
Slide mounted safety that flips up was reason enough for me to pass on it.

HisStigness
December 2, 2013, 12:27 AM
I may be the only person in the world that dislikes almost nothing about the Beretta 92. For me it is a very functional pistol. All the controls are in the right spots (for me) and the grip angle makes it perfect for me to point it without looking down the sights. Yes I agree that it is not that light by modern standards and it is a bit bulky, but it was intended to be a service weapon. Service weapons aren't made to be concealed, and don't have to be super light either.

A 92 fan boy I definitely am not, but I wouldn't shy away from buying one.

labhound
December 2, 2013, 01:59 AM
I love everything about my 92FS Inox. Excellent gun!

USAF_Vet
December 2, 2013, 03:03 AM
The slide mounted flip up safety is the reason I like the 92. Just goes to show everyone has a different preference.
When I buy another 9mm, the Beretta 92 FS (or possibly even the Taurus PT92 (after all, what's in a name?)) Is pretty high on the list. That I qualified with and carried the M9 has a lot to do with it, too.

arspeukinen
December 2, 2013, 04:43 AM
I own three, and a .22 clone, and some airsoft versions. It just fits right and is reliable.

bannockburn
December 2, 2013, 07:26 AM
My hand is really too small to get a proper and comfortable grip on the Model 92, plus it's a bit of a stretch to reach the trigger. Add in the slide mounted safety and it's just not a good fit for me. The only model that's a bit easier to handle is the Vertec with its flat backstrap.

jmr40
December 2, 2013, 08:23 AM
I only use the safety as a decocker so it isn't that big of a deal. I've owned a couple of 92's over the years. I have a huge amount of respect for the gun. It does the job it was designed for. It is accurate and reliable.

At the end of the day that is all that really matters. If I were in the military, or some other occupation and were issued a Beretta I'd use it with complete confidence. But if I'm buying there are other guns just as accurate and reliable that I like better.

I won't argue with any man who prefers the Beretta.

Pilot
December 2, 2013, 09:31 AM
Slide mounted safety that flips up was reason enough for me to pass on it.
I avoided the Beretta 92FS for almost 25 years because of the safety. I embraced other fine 9MM's instead, BHP's, CZ-75's, HK P7, Sigs, even the P-08 Luger. Last year a buddy bought an M9, new for an excellent price. I shot it at our gun club, and was hooked. I went out and found a new 92FS at a great price, and bought it. For me it has been accurate, and 100% reliable.

I only use the safety as a decocker. I see no need for them on a gun with a long DA first pull.

David E
December 2, 2013, 10:37 AM
Be sure and add a step to your jam clearing protocol.

It can make for a nasty surprise if you don't.

That's why my 92 is decock-only.

C0untZer0
December 2, 2013, 11:56 AM
I try not to bash any particular model but since this thread was named "The gun I'd love to hate..." I decided to voice the things I don't like about the Beretta 92

And I was just reminded how much I don't like DA/SA trigger setups.

For me personally I don't get as accurate a first shot on target as I otherwise could with a shorter, smoother, lighter trigger pull.

RetiredUSNChief
December 2, 2013, 11:56 AM
I've had mine for more than 20 years and it's been everything you mentioned. It's as accurate and reliable as one could hope for in a handgun. And fun-fun-fun to shoot because of it!

That's the first gun my son wanted to shoot out of my collection, and any time we go to the range, it's still the one he wants to shoot over the others. Probably the mystique of a 15 round 9mm handgun, though. But hey...so long as he is having fun and wants to shoot, that's fine by me!

:):)

Schwing
December 2, 2013, 12:12 PM
My 92fs was the first handgun purchase I ever made and I have never regretted it. I have fired tens of thousands of rounds through mine. Until I started reloading my own ammo, I did not have a single mis-feed. The couple that I did have were self inflicted.

There seems to be a lot of folks who like to bash the 92 but I will never understand that. Several decades and more than 10 handguns later, my 92fs is still the one I keep in my bedroom and is the gun I would reach for to defend my family if needed.

BSA1
December 2, 2013, 01:20 PM
Be sure and add a step to your jam clearing protocol.

It can make for a nasty surprise if you don't.

That's why my 92 is decock-only.

What would that be?

Arkansas Paul
December 2, 2013, 01:25 PM
And I was just reminded how much I don't like DA/SA trigger setups.

For me personally I don't get as accurate a first shot on target as I otherwise could with a shorter, smoother, lighter trigger pull.

What's stopping you from simply cocking the hammer back before the first shot? I do it all the time with my Sig.

lpsharp88
December 2, 2013, 01:53 PM
Be sure and add a step to your jam clearing protocol.

It can make for a nasty surprise if you don't.

That's why my 92 is decock-only.

What would that be?
When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill. The extra step would be to sweep up on the safety to ensure it is not activated.

BSA1
December 2, 2013, 01:55 PM
COuntZerO,

The difference in the DA/SA trigger pulls is the nature of the beast. Of course it's main advantage being the double strike ability on a dud primer. I will admit to finding the striker fired Ruger SR9C very nice and at the top of my want list.

As a (the lights go out, a shot rings in the dark, a woman screams, heavy footsteps runs away, lightening flashes, Frankenstein becomes alive) prepper I was originally motived by the fact is standard sidearm of the military which means parts and magazine availability I have come to appreciate how well designed this gun really is.

Much of the criticism of the Beretta is from the 1911 crowd. Yet the reality is any gun that replaced a legend would be equally hated. Mine also has a Action by T action job and LEO tune-up. True is despite it's large size as SharpsDressedMan says it just shoots and shoots and shoots very accurately and comfortably all day long.

Recently my active duty US Army son and I spent some time on the range while he was home on leave. I let him shoot my Action by T 92FS and he fell in love with it as he was use to qualifying with Army 92's that were not tuned near as nice. In fact he had a lot of fun with his consistent head shots on the terrorists targets.

Concealed carry definitely requires some work.

If pushed into corner I would choose the 92FS as my favorite semi-auto handgun.

BSA1
December 2, 2013, 01:57 PM
When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill. The extra step would be to sweep up on the safety to ensure it is not activated.

Doesn't the open slide design prevent that type of jam?

JTQ
December 2, 2013, 02:04 PM
Doesn't the open slide design prevent that type of jam?
It's not a jam they are talking about, and the open slide is not part of the issue. The issue is you could engage the safety during a slide rack. When you go to pull the trigger, nothing will happen because the safety is engaged.

lpsharp88
December 2, 2013, 02:04 PM
When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill. The extra step would be to sweep up on the safety to ensure it is not activated.

Doesn't the open slide design prevent that type of jam?
I can't say for certain. I've never had one jam on me (military or civilian), but the one time that I did have to use the drill on it was when I didn't fully seat a a fresh mag in it, and I did happen to engage the safety.

Schwing
December 2, 2013, 02:05 PM
When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill.

While this is certainly possible, I would think you would have to almost do this on purpose. I cannot conceive of any method that I use personally to rack the slide that would result in the safety being engaged. Even in Injured dominant hand scenarios, the safety is engaged by pushing down on the lever. There is no reason why the backward motion of racking the slide would result in downward pressure on the safety unless you are trying to forcefully PUSH the slide forward instead of pulling back and releasing it.

If you can't tell, I really like Berettas :)

JTQ
December 2, 2013, 02:28 PM
Schwing wrote,
There is no reason why the backward motion of racking the slide would result in downward pressure on the safety unless you are trying to forcefully PUSH the slide forward instead of pulling back and releasing it.

My early auto shooting was with S&W auto's with a slide mounted safety just like the Beretta, so I'm pretty familiar with the design, and think the danger of it happening is often overstated. However, I think it is pretty easy to see how racking the slide could engage the safety. Conversely, I don't see how pushing the slide forward would activate the safety.

We are talking about an overhand rack, right?

OregonJohnny
December 2, 2013, 02:37 PM
I took a 300-round 8-hour defensive handgun course with my 92FS. In dozens and dozens of failure drills, I accidentally engaged the safety 1 time while using the powerstroke method. And I knew I did it as soon as I did it, so it didn't take me by surprise. I just quickly flipped it up and kept going.

However, the slide release lever on a Beretta sticks out like a giant button screaming "PRESS ME!". It was most definitely designed to be the main method of getting the gun back into battery, unlike a 1911 or Glock. I am monumentally faster and more consistent with the slide release on the Beretta than I am with the powerstroke. My Glock 20SF slide "catch" (not release) button is almost impossible to use to release the slide.

For those with a hard time comfortably reaching all the Beretta's controls, I recommend Alumagrips. They are a hair thinner than the stock plastic grips, but also have a more gradually rounded taper on the edges, making them feel much thinner. I wear a size medium glove, and have no problem reaching the DA trigger, mag release, decocker, and slide release all without shifting my shooting grip at all.

I just cannot outshoot my Beretta with any of my other handguns. Is it bulky for a 9mm? Yes, because it is supposed to be. It was designed to be a rugged military sidearm, not a CCW. Is it heavy for a 9mm? Yes, and that helps with fast follow up shots and consistent shot-to-shot accuracy. Does it have a long heavy trigger pull? Yes, but that can be helped with a "D" spring. Does the safety/decocker get in the way of a powerstoke? Maybe, but try that slide release, and you may never go back. Besides, who needs to practice failure drills if your handgun never fails? ;)

Sarcasm, of course - always practice failure drills. But seriously, the Beretta just eats and spits out everything you feed it without any hiccups. I've tried it sideways, upside down, limp wristed, with mags loaded with 3 or 4 different types of ammo - it just won't stop.

Schwing
December 2, 2013, 02:46 PM
We are talking about an overhand rack, right?

Yes. I just don't see it though. The only way I could see it even pushing forward would be if you were pushing it from the back of the slide with your fingers directly over the safety. Either way, I see this argument occasionally but just have a hard time seeing how people are accidentally engaging the safety this way... It apparently happens but, once again, I just can't see why.

Old Dog
December 2, 2013, 02:46 PM
The OP kinda expressed my thoughts on the Beretta ... while I'm a huge 1911 fan, midway through my military career, we switched to the M-9 ... I wanted to hate it, but I just never could.

And when you come to consider the control lever as a decocker only and get the cocked'n'locked mentality cleared from your brain (only while using the Beretta) it becomes easy.

For me, the Beretta fits my paws perfectly. Not a big fan of the DA trigger-stroke, in SA, the 92FS/M9 shoots very, very well for me.

With the superb Mec-Gar 18-round magazines, the size vs. capacity issue is moot.

chrisTx
December 2, 2013, 03:32 PM
With the boat load of aftermarket companies out there, I can't for the life of me understand why no one has come up with some sort of extended safety lever for it. I carry mine either with the safety on, or with the safety off and the hammer back at the half cock notch thing. When the hammer is in that half cock thing, it's much harder to actuate the safety.

BSA1
December 2, 2013, 03:57 PM
It's not a jam they are talking about, and the open slide is not part of the issue. The issue is you could engage the safety during a slide rack. When you go to pull the trigger, nothing will happen because the safety is engaged.

When conducting a tap-rack-bang drill, the slide mounted safety can be activated during the "rack" portion of the drill. The extra step would be to sweep up on the safety to ensure it is not activated.

Ok, I was thinking more of stovepipe malfunction drill. So any semi-auto with a slide mounted safety could have this "problem" not just the Beretta. It seems to me that all semi-autos can jam as a result of user induced improper technique.

Alas like OregonJohnny my dang 92 is so reliable I have never had the opportunity to practice malfunction drills.

tarosean
December 2, 2013, 08:12 PM
Alas like OregonJohnny my dang 92 is so reliable I have never had the opportunity to practice malfunction drills.

Induce malfunctions. Load a snap cap or expended shell in various locations within the mag. Everyone should be extremely proficient in clearing jams with their Self Defense weapon of choice..

Fatdaddy
December 2, 2013, 08:46 PM
I have nothing but love for the M-9/92 series.
The design has the smoothest action available bar none....
the action feels like oiled glass and is one of the few that you can slow ride a live round into battery.

BSA1
December 2, 2013, 09:06 PM
Induce malfunctions. Load a snap cap or expended shell in various locations within the mag. Everyone should be extremely proficient in clearing jams with their Self Defense weapon of choice..

Or they could use high quality ammunition, make common sense tune-ups and shoot the gun enough to know it is reliable. Do you induce jams in your revolver?

lpsharp88
December 2, 2013, 09:17 PM
I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.

astra600
December 3, 2013, 12:07 AM
I've always wanted a stainless PT92, ala Walker -Texas Ranger. It looks so right on the belt. I've passed them up in stores for decades because of the slide mounted safety. My P38 has one too, but the gun is more svelt and I don't use it much. I do have a model 1934 Beretta in .380. Fun to shoot, but a 180* safety lever.

VVelox
December 3, 2013, 03:13 AM
For those of you who are not fond of the safety location, check out the Taurus PT92. It uses a frame mount safety/decocker. Given the similar placement of all the controls as my 1911, I love it.

Phaedrus/69
December 3, 2013, 03:26 AM
The slide mounted safety is the kiss of death for me; zero chance that I'd ever carry one. And I have little use for a handgun that I can't carry. It's a pretty bulky gun for a 9mm, too. Probably a good range gun but I don't have much use for a 9mm range-only gun.

However, all of that is just my personal preference. The gun is well known for reliability and it's a good shooter. If you like the user interface it's a good firearm.

Fatdaddy
December 3, 2013, 08:12 AM
For those of you who are not fond of the safety location, check out the Taurus PT92. It uses a frame mount safety/decocker. Given the similar placement of all the controls as my 1911, I love it.
I agree %100.
Not sure why Beretta moved away from the frame mounted safety.
I don't use the safety on my M-9 but the location on the Taurus "is" superior.

HexHead
December 3, 2013, 09:02 AM
I agree %100.
Not sure why Beretta moved away from the frame mounted safety.
I don't use the safety on my M-9 but the location on the Taurus "is" superior.
Isn't the frame mounted safety just a safety and not a decocker? IIRC, one o f the things the military wanted in the competition to replace the 1911 was a decocker, hence the slide mounted device.

I had a Browning BDA and Beretta 9000 with that type safety/decocker, and it was fine when it was the only type I had. Than I got a Tomcat and a HiPower and a 1911, and having guns with safeties going in different directions made no sense to me. I also decided I hated DA/SA triggers, so they had to go. The 92 may be a great gun, but I'd never own one for those two reasons.

Potatohead
December 3, 2013, 09:08 AM
I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.
I understand be prepared and whatnot, but it ain't that hard to tap and rack. It's not like you have to work a puzzle. How much practice does it take? Im really not trying to be a smartA--, I just wonder about this sometimes, how much time to devote to it.

lpsharp88
December 3, 2013, 09:15 AM
I understand be prepared and whatnot, but it ain't that hard to tap and rack. It's not like you have to work a puzzle. How much practice does it take? Im really not trying to be a smartA--, I just wonder about this sometimes, how much time to devote to it.

I can't say how much practice it takes, but I believe that when the poop hits the fan, you don't rise to the occasion, but rather fall to the level of your training. If you don't train on tap-rack drills, you still may do it if you have to, but your reaction time could be very slow compared to if you do it a few times each range session.

Schwing
December 3, 2013, 10:45 AM
Not to beat a dead horse here but... If you spend that much time practicing tap and rack exercises and are still somehow flipping the safety on, what is the point of continuing the exercises? If I had that problem with any gun, I wouldn't carry it either.

I went home last night and pulled out my 92 for giggles. I can actually admit that I see how this could happen. I have just never had it happen and don't see how you would do this unless you are gripping the slide with you fingers right over the safety... I know Mel Gibson never had this problem either :)

I think the bottom line is, however, you gotta be 100% comfortable with what you carry. I think that is one of the reasons why most of us have a safe full of guns. Personally, in a way, I hope I never find the 100% perfect gun because my excuses to keep buying are kind of stalled at that point.

SharpsDressedMan
December 3, 2013, 12:29 PM
Now some guys will not approve of this solution, but if you can find a Beretta 92D slide and put it on a Beretta 92FS, etc, then your gun will have NO safety at all. You MUST lower the hammer carefully to the DA (down) position. This is no different than doing the same to a CZ75 (standard version, not with a decocker). It CAN be done safely, and then you would have a ready to go, DA auto, no safety (much like every DA revolver we have used for years), with no junk on the slide to screw you up. Draw and fire. Gun is loaded and dangerous (as they should be; it's not a toy, right?). Plus, a slick sided slide on a Beretta 92 looks kind of nice. Not for the weak of heart, or liability obsessed.

OregonJohnny
December 3, 2013, 03:17 PM
if you can find a Beretta 92D slide and put it on a Beretta 92FS, etc, then your gun will have NO safety at all. You MUST lower the hammer carefully to the DA (down) position.

An even better solution, IMO, is the slide from a 92G - which has a decock-only lever. It is spring loaded to flip back up to the fire position after it decocks. Unfortunately, you cannot interchange the parts from the 92G safety with a standard M9/92 slide. I really wish Beretta would offer the G models again, or at least some sort of retrofit kit that will turn your standard 92 slide into a G decock-only configuration. My "perfect" Beretta would be the 92G-SD, which also had the frame rail. Essentially, it's an M9A1 frame with a 92G slide. It was only made for about 4 or 5 years, and they are nearly impossible to find.

HisStigness
December 3, 2013, 03:31 PM
I think the problem is they introduced too many models of the gun to begin with. Glock sells all their guns with no safety, and if you don't like it you can buy from somebody else. Beretta should have introduced 2 models: one "service model" with the safety/decock lever that is set to the fire position by racking the slide, and the other with no safety or decock lever at all.

PapaG
December 3, 2013, 04:54 PM
Got one. Like it. Won't carry it as it is too bulky. Shoots everything I load and I use it to recover brass from some of my less "accurate" loads.
Wouldn't sell it for twice what I paid.

JTQ
December 3, 2013, 05:40 PM
chrisTx wrote,
With the boat load of aftermarket companies out there, I can't for the life of me understand why no one has come up with some sort of extended safety lever for it. I carry mine either with the safety on, or with the safety off and the hammer back at the half cock notch thing. When the hammer is in that half cock thing, it's much harder to actuate the safety.
I over looked this one.

As several others have posted, most people will use the safety/decocker on a Beretta 92FS simply as a decocker. Most will not carry the pistol with the safety engaged unless required to by their employer. With that in mind, there is no need for an extended safety lever. Actually, I think they offer a more compact safety lever, so it stays out of the way better.

The guys that really know the Beretta will have to answer whether or not it is designed to be used with the hammer in the half cock and the safety on. I'd think not, which is probably why you have difficulty doing so.

BSA1
December 3, 2013, 06:06 PM
Tarosean says “Induce malfunctions. Load a snap cap or expended shell in various locations within the mag. Everyone should be extremely proficient in clearing jams with their Self Defense weapon of choice.”

Along with ipsharps88 who chimes in with “I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.”

So both of you gentlemen want me to take a weaspon that is proven to be 100% reliable and deliberately cause it to malfunction so they I can practice correcting the problems I caused.

Which bring me back to my question do you induce failures in your revolvers and what kinds?

BSA1
December 3, 2013, 06:14 PM
The slide mounted safety is the kiss of death for me; zero chance that I'd ever carry one. And I have little use for a handgun that I can't carry. It's a pretty bulky gun for a 9mm, too. Probably a good range gun but I don't have much use for a 9mm range-only gun.

Well it has being pointed out that there are other versions of the 92 w/o the slide mounted safety and it seems to be going a pretty good job on the ranges in Iraq and Afghanistan

lpsharp88
December 3, 2013, 06:28 PM
Tarosean says “Induce malfunctions. Load a snap cap or expended shell in various locations within the mag. Everyone should be extremely proficient in clearing jams with their Self Defense weapon of choice.”

Along with ipsharps88 who chimes in with “I think tarosean's point is to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. I agree with him completely. If God forbid you ever have to use it in a defensive situation, AND it happens to have a jam, you'll want your reaction to be second nature.”

So both of you gentlemen want me to take a weaspon that is proven to be 100% reliable and deliberately cause it to malfunction so they I can practice correcting the problems I caused.

Which bring me back to my question do you induce failures in your revolvers and what kinds?
You can do what you want. But for me, I do deliberately cause a malfunction in order to practice clearing them. The idea behind it is to make it second nature in the event that you need to in a life or death situation. Just because your weapon has been 100% so far, does NOT mean it will be when it really matters.
To answer your question, I do not own, or shoot revolvers, so I don't.
BUT, when I go shooting my Glock or Beretta, I will do things such as load a round in the chamber, then deliberately unseat the mag just enough so the next round won't feed, load spent casings in the mag so I get a click without a boom, put a shell case in the slide to simulate a stovepipe, and intentionally cause a double feed/failure to extract.
See this video, has some good info
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfyULpEhmug

0to60
December 3, 2013, 08:29 PM
I'll NEVER understand why so few people around here dislike the 92. Its a great gun. Big? Heavy? Its intended to be a service gun, not a compact. Leveling this complaint against it is like complaining that a minivan isn't as nimble as a sports car. The 92 is comparable in size and weight to the other guns in its class, like the CZ75, Sig, etc...

Its a great gun. For $600, you get excellent build quality, the smoothest slide in the business, a durable finish, easy followup shots, a movie star, and possibly the most thoroughly tested handgun in history. Its hard to top the 92.

BSA1
December 3, 2013, 08:37 PM
lbsharp88,

What ever gave you the idea that I don't know how to clear malfunctions in the semi-automatic handguns?

What I said is my Beretta 92FS is so reliable that it has never jammed. Therefore I don’t any purpose in deliberately causing malfunctions. But in fairness to you I should point out that my expectations for a combat handgun is considerability higher yours. For starters my Beretta has been tuned by one of the top gunsmiths in the nation, Teddy Jacobson. Teddy understands that LEO firearms must go bang every time the trigger is pulled with no excuses.

Second is I have carefully inspected all of my magazines and have replaced the magazine springs with extra power ones from Wolff.

Third is I require all of my semi-automatics to function perfectly with 500 rounds of the ammunition I am carrying. No, really 500 rounds with no failures unless I know I induced the error or know the round to be defective. Otherwise if the gun chokes the ammo test starts all over. Expensive yep, but I know that my gun will not fail me.

The only thing is this gun feeds and shoots everything I have fed it including ammo that has choked in other guns.

You seem to have accepted the idea that a semi-automatic handgun can not be reliable all the time with good quality magazines and high quality ammunition. I started my career carrying revolvers which have always functioned fine. The only exception I had any problems with my revolvers was when my department brought cheap reloaded ammo. Why should I expect any less of a standard with a semi-automatic?

Those so-called training videos are fun entertainment but they in no way replace spending time on the range shooting the ammunition you plan on carrying in your carry / self defense piece. If your Beretta does not measure up to mine send you gun to Teddy, get good quality magazines and you will be singing praises after he gets done with it.

I would also encourage you to broaden your shooting horizons and confidence in their reliability by getting a good quality revolver.

http://www.actionsbyt.com/

http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/cID1

lpsharp88
December 3, 2013, 08:59 PM
Ok, here we go

What ever gave you the idea that I don't know how to clear malfunctions in the semi-automatic handguns?
I never said that, just said that practicing clearing them is a good idea. I assume that anyone who owns a semi auto knows how to clear a malfunction.

I should point out that my expectations for a combat handgun is considerability higher yours
I never stated what my expectations for a combat handgun are. But, I will now. I expect any combat/carry handgun in my possession to be 100% reliable, no matter the ammo. That being said, a handgun is a mechanical device, and anything mechanical can fail. Also, like I said earlier, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. If I ever have to use my M9 or G26 in a defensive situation, I fully expect it to function flawlessly, but I also train as if it won't, so if it does fail, hopefully my reaction will be instant, and more importantly, correct.

You seem to have accepted the idea that a semi-automatic handgun can not be reliable all the time with good quality magazines and high quality ammunition
Once again, I never said that. Just because I state that I practice malfunction drills, and that I think it is a good idea to do so, does not mean that I don't think, or have accepted, that a semi-automatic handgun cannot be reliable. In fact, I have accepted the opposite. My Glock and Beretta have been the opposite, they have been 100% reliable, no matter what I feed them.

Those so-called training videos are fun entertainment but they in no way replace spending time on the range shooting the ammunition you plan on carrying in your carry / self defense piece
I agree completely. You can only get so much from the internet, and nothing beats actual hands on time. I also think that just because your firearm has been 100% during your range shooting, it does not mean that it will be 100% when it really counts. So why not practice malfunction drills, even if it has been 100% so far?

My Beretta measures up to yours, so far, and it has not been to Teddy. Only thing done to it was I installed the D spring, and switched the safety around to better accommodate my left handedness.

USAF_Vet
December 3, 2013, 09:07 PM
The slide on the M9/92FS is so long that I learned to rack the slide using the front of the slide, just behind the barrel, rather than gripping the rear of the slide and inadvertently decock the pistol.
It can even be done from underneath if you have long fingers and a recently strong grip.

Officially, I was trained to use the slide release and not slingshot the slide, but as a lefty, I found my way of racking the slide easier and faster. With a traditional two handed grip, I don't even lose sight picture because it is all done with my support hand. Firing hand never changes position.

BSA1
December 3, 2013, 11:26 PM
So why not practice malfunction drills, even if it has been 100% so far?

Then simply do whatever gives you the most confidence.

lpsharp88
December 3, 2013, 11:30 PM
So why not practice malfunction drills, even if it has been 100% so far?

Then simply do whatever gives you the most confidence.
Exactly! Shooting the weapon with your carry ammo without malfunction gives you confidence that it is reliable. Practicing malfunction drills, in addition to range time, gives me confidence that I'm reliable

MagnunJoe
December 5, 2013, 12:16 AM
The only thing I almost dislike about the Beretta FS/9M is their fat butt. Other than that, mine have gone bang every time, with any ammo.

commygun
December 5, 2013, 12:34 AM
Wonderful, classic pistol but I could not learn the half-mile trigger. I wish they made a Glock with a quarter of the class a 92FS has

RetiredUSNChief
December 5, 2013, 01:38 AM
The only thing I almost dislike about the Beretta FS/9M is their fat butt. Other than that, mine have gone bang every time, with any ammo.

Nuthin' like a nice fat butt to fill your hand, though...

:D

Pilot
December 5, 2013, 08:30 AM
Nuthin' like a nice fat butt to fill your hand, though...

:D
Exactly. Those of us with actual man hands, not girly hands approve!

wally
December 5, 2013, 10:48 AM
The 92 feels as bad as a Glock in my hand, but unlike the Glock, I shoot it well (after the first shot). Never could learn to like DA/SA operation, I shoot my Taurus PT-92 far more often.

Other than weight, the Beretta Steel-1 SAO is about perfect (very hard to find however).

arspeukinen
December 7, 2013, 06:25 AM
dang 92 is so reliable I have never had the opportunity to practice malfunction drills.

Try reloading drunk (a joke, never do it!!!).
Three squibs this year, many ripped or bent copper coatings that jammed in the chamber. Other than this batch of fail, I have never had any malfunctions with any ammo.

With sufficiently flawed ammo even the 92 will fail :-) The rear sight is great for banging against window frame or other wooden structure to get a jammed round out.

With the squibs the bullet jammed in the throat and prevented a new round from being chambered.

shootr
December 7, 2013, 10:43 AM
Love the 1911 a lot and shot one competitively. Was on active duty when we made the switch. Would have preferred the Sig for its size and the way it fits my hand, but really came to like the Beretta. Fits the hand well enough. Smooth trigger, easy to shoot accurately and extremely reliable. Never experienced any failure with my 92. I also really like how it looks - sinister, deadly and all business.

Shipwreck
December 7, 2013, 06:52 PM
Love me some Beretta 92s :)

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Line1_zpse5c6519a.jpg~original

ratt_finkel
December 8, 2013, 11:13 PM
The Beretta 92 is my favorite gun period. It's the one I learned to shoot on. And is also my night stand gun. My original 92FS has over 6k rounds since I bought it in 2009. It comes with me every time I shoot. I also have an M9A1 New. Wanted a 92 with a rail so I could mount a laser light combo on it for relief nightstand duty. That one is about two years old now. Just over 1k rounds.

I have small hands. When I started out shooting I was a 130lb 5'6" (165 weight lifter now) weakling. Guns were cool to me. But never understood the fanatics/enthusiasts. And I was slightly intimated by firearms. Even though by that time at 28years old I had shot many guns. The Beretta and I just connected and I've been an addict ever since.

I have had failures with mine. Mag related or lack of cleaning usually. They are few and far between. I have a 20rd mec gar and 32rd pro mag(it holds 34) that are just silly fun and have been more reliable than my stock mags.

Eventually I'd like to have one of every variant. I am really anxious to shoot one of the vertec, single stack and elite versions. Though the next on my list is the new inox compact.

I carry a Ruger SR9c. Not sure why anyone would try to conceal carry a full size anything LOL

Cliff notes: love my 92's and can't wait to add more!

JohnKSa
December 8, 2013, 11:52 PM
While this is certainly possible, I would think you would have to almost do this on purpose. I cannot conceive of any method that I use personally to rack the slide that would result in the safety being engaged. Even in Injured dominant hand scenarios, the safety is engaged by pushing down on the lever. There is no reason why the backward motion of racking the slide would result in downward pressure on the safety unless you are trying to forcefully PUSH the slide forward instead of pulling back and releasing it.
...
The only way I could see it even pushing forward would be if you were pushing it from the back of the slide with your fingers directly over the safety.
...
If you spend that much time practicing tap and rack exercises and are still somehow flipping the safety on, what is the point of continuing the exercises?I've seen a slide rack either engage a slide mounted (down for safe) safety accidentally or decock (down for decock) a decocker only gun. It can happen and it does happen. I've even done it myself a couple of times.

I can't figure out what you're talking about when you say that you'd have to push forward engage the safety. Pushing forward from the back would DIS-engage the safety. A backward motion (like a slide racking movement) would be what would tend to engage the safety, not pushing forward from the back.

Finally, it matters not what kind of manual safety a gun has, whether it moves up or down, around, in, out, over, forward, back, clockwise or counter-clockwise. Regardless of what kind it is, how it operates AND whether or not you ever intentionally engage it, you should ALWAYS include disengaging the safety as part of the action of presenting the firearm to the target.

That's because when you present the firearm to the target you mean to fire the gun and one of the CRITICAL steps in firing the gun is making sure the safety is disengaged. Unless the safety is completely disabled, there is the potential for it to have been engaged and therefore your firing procedure should insure that it is disengaged.

Failure to do that could be irritating, embarrassing, or even deadly.

If your gun has a manual safety, you should be practicing to disengage that safety EACH and EVERY time you bring it up to fire at a target.

By the way, here are a couple of my babies...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=49003&d=1165529907

Vol46
December 9, 2013, 11:14 AM
I really like mine. It is a little large to carry except under winter clothing, but it is solid as a rock, very reliable ( the only malfunctions I ever had were a couple of squibs from my inattention during a reloading session), and capable of very good accuracy when I am shooting well.

BSA1
December 9, 2013, 11:28 AM
"Try reloading drunk (a joke, never do it!!!).
Three squibs this year, many ripped or bent copper coatings that jammed in the chamber. Other than this batch of fail, I have never had any malfunctions with any ammo.

With sufficiently flawed ammo even the 92 will fail :-) The rear sight is great for banging against window frame or other wooden structure to get a jammed round out."

I fail to see the reason for risking damaging a gun by deliberately feeding it junk ammo. That said I reload most of my ammunition. The only exception is the premium ammunition I have purchased for S.D. My preferred brand is Cor-bon 124 gr. JHP+P. As I previously posted I have batch of old reloads that the primers required a second strike to fire yet the Beretta ate all of them up first time through.

Like I said the dang thing is just so reliable.

RetiredUSNChief
December 9, 2013, 06:50 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=49003&d=1165529907

WOW!

Where do you get belt-fed Beretta 92's?

:D

Confederate
December 9, 2013, 08:38 PM
You don't have to apologize for liking or hating any gun, as they're such a subjective thing. For me, I find it difficult to like any plastic pistol. To me they're like hammers or screwdrivers. But when the Beretta first came out, I remember it was trashing all the other pistols in the military gun tests. Only one malfunction out of 2,000 rounds on average. The S&W 459, which was considered a "tie" in many respects, malfunctioned on an average of once every 952 times, if I recall correctly.

I have a Taurus PT92 stainless, and it's gorgeous. Then I have the Beretta 92 air pistol, which is a hoot.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Taurus_Beretta_Pellet_Small.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/jriler/media/Taurus_Beretta_Pellet_Small.jpg.html)

.

JohnKSa
December 9, 2013, 11:33 PM
Where do you get belt-fed Beretta 92's?I bought a case of linked .308 Portuguese ammo some years ago and while I was de-linking it, the idea for a picture hit me... :D

RetiredUSNChief
December 10, 2013, 02:46 AM
I bought a case of linked .308 Portuguese ammo some years ago and while I was de-linking it, the idea for a picture hit me... :D

Ya gotta admit...a belt fed Beretta really WOULD be cool! :neener:

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