Reloading for autos


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smovlov
December 5, 2013, 02:31 PM
Hey all! Back with more questions.

Ive been loading for the .357/.38 and am about to embark on loading for a Gen 3 Glock 23. I got range pick up brass from oldillini off the Pay it Forward in Reloading (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=698208) thread which I have a few questions about.

There are some tarnished cases and some with light vertical scratches in them (photos 1 and 2). I'm assuming that the ones with vertical lines have been pushed through a GRX or Bulge Buster as the lines go the full length of the brass. Would I be correct in assuming so? Also, are the darkened cases still safe to reload?

I will be test loading with Xtreme Plated 10/40-165 HP (http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-165-HP-p/xc1040-165hp-b0500.htm) and Winchester SPP and will be using Titegroup and HP-38. I'm thinking of setting the OAL at 1.300". The SAMMI Maximum OAL is 1.350" and a cartridge this size drops in the chamber but I'd like to have the cushion of .050" to account for variation in seating depth. I initially got my load numbers from taking mid-range jacked data from LEE but now I see that Hodgdon has data for the BREB FP (Berrys Bullets Flat Point). Also, My Lyman 49th has data for a 165gr TMJ which I understand is also a plated bullet (please correct me if I am wrong).

Here is what I Calculated from LEE (Mid-range jacketed, 10% decrease to find Min):Titegroup Max 4.9gr Min 4.4gr OAL 1.125"

Hp-38/231 Max 5.1gr Min 4.6gr OAL 1.125"

The following are straight from the book, I did not decrease the loads:

From Lyman (165gr TMJ):No Titegroup data

HP 38/231 Max 5.8gr Min 5.2gr OAL 1.200"

From Hodgdon website (165gr BREB FP):Titegroup Max 5.1gr Min 4.5gr OAL 1.125"

HP 38/231 Max 5.4gr Min 4.7gr OAL 1.125"

The following numbers are what I am going to end up loading. Please let me know if these numbers sound correct. :)
Titegroup Max 5.0gr Min 4.5gr OAL 1.300"

HP 38/231 Max 5.4gr Min 4.7gr OAL 1.300"

To recap. My questions are as follows:

1. Are the tarnished cases OK to reload?
2. Am I correct in assuming the cases with vertical streaks have been pushed through a GRX or Bulge Buster? If this is the case I will not be reloading them.
3. Is the load data that I will be using ok?
4. Is .003" of setback a safe amount of setback?
5. How many rounds do you guys load at each amount to check for function in a semi-auto?
6. How does the crimp look in photo 3?

Thanks you all again for all the help! :cool:

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sexybeast
December 5, 2013, 02:59 PM
Size a few cases and see if they drop into the barrel. If they do you don't have to do the bulge buster saga. I've never had to do the bulge buster procedure for any of my glocks or any other of my 40's
Its alot of extra work.

plmitch
December 5, 2013, 04:02 PM
1. Are the tarnished cases OK to reload?They look fine
2. Am I correct in assuming the cases with vertical streaks have been pushed through a GRX or Bulge Buster? If this is the case I will not be reloading them.I've never seen a Bulge Buster do this.
3. Is the load data that I will be using ok?NC
4. Is .003" of setback a safe amount of setback?NC
5. How many rounds do you guys load at each amount to check for function in a semi-auto?1 doz.
6. How does the crimp look in photo 3?Looks like a crimp.

Walkalong
December 5, 2013, 04:04 PM
1. Yes. Stain is OK, corrosion is not.

2. Don't know.

3. Did not look through it all and look it up.

4. Yes, just don't keep re-chambering them often.

5. I load 5, 10, 15 20, or more when working up. If those all work, I figure it's time to load fifty or a hundred and try.

5. Looks OK, unless that pulled bullet is from the same crimp, then it is too much. You want to remove the bell or a hair more,that's all.

trixter
December 5, 2013, 05:07 PM
I use a Costco nut jar, filled with HOT water from the tap, a couple of tablespoons of 'Lemi-shine' and about 2 drops of Dawn dish soap. Throw them in and shake, rattle and roll them for a couple of minutes and nearly all of the ugly stuff will come off. Drain in a colander (one that is not used for food!) put them on a cookie tray and in the oven on 170deg for a couple of hours, check them to make sure they are all dry and proceed to reload. I am a shiny nut; so I put them in the tumbler with walnut media, New Finish car polish(about a tablespoon) well worked in and an old used dryer sheet cut into 4 strips. Tumble until the shine hurts your eyes. LOL and then reload. YMMV

orionengnr
December 5, 2013, 07:09 PM
put them on a cookie tray and in the oven on 170deg for a couple of hours...
Couple of hours??? :eek:
How about 5-10 minutes?

sexybeast
December 5, 2013, 08:32 PM
I use a Costco nut jar, filled with HOT water from the tap, a couple of tablespoons of 'Lemi-shine' and about 2 drops of Dawn dish soap. Throw them in and shake, rattle and roll them for a couple of minutes and nearly all of the ugly stuff will come off. Drain in a colander (one that is not used for food!) put them on a cookie tray and in the oven on 170deg for a couple of hours, check them to make sure they are all dry and proceed to reload. I am a shiny nut; so I put them in the tumbler with walnut media, New Finish car polish(about a tablespoon) well worked in and an old used dryer sheet cut into 4 strips. Tumble until the shine hurts your eyes. LOL and then reload. YMMV

Really? My god what a lot of work! I load 400 to 600 rounds of 40 per month and the same of 9mm. During the summer even more. Do 500 that way for one month and you will switch over to something more simple and less labor intensive.
I don't care how they look, as long as they shoot and as long as they are accurate. AFter a match you only get a percentage of you own brass back anyway. But I do inspect my brass. About 2% of my 40 or 9mm is tossed because of cracks or something else.
I just tumble with rice and reload them.

steve4102
December 6, 2013, 10:23 AM
Your crimp in photo 3 is to much IMO. I do not like to see that much "dent" in my bullets, especially plated. The crimp should be only enough to remove the flare plus a thou or two more. It is not applied to secure the bullet.

I do not believe the Lee Bulge buster is the cause of these striations. Never seen one put any makes on a case.

Your Titegroup loads will most likely cause the same "burn" looking marks in your loads. It burns hot and has been known to score a case or two.

Your 165gr TMJ is a Speer bullet, it may indeed be plated, but Speer GD and their other plated bullets have a much thicker/different type of plating than the Berry or Rainier. Speer data for this bullet is much higher than both Hodgdon and Lyman.

Comrade Mike
December 6, 2013, 10:34 AM
What they said, crimp looks like a bit too much.

Side note, I can see the photographers reflection in the bullet

Rule3
December 6, 2013, 10:46 AM
I am going to recommend to use the HP38 and not Titegroup. Why do so many new reloaders want to use Titegroup in a 40 SW shot through a Glock??

Yes, there is data for it and yes I know so many folks out there use it but IMO it is just to fast a powder and every "story" of a Glock Kaboom I have read involved TG and a Glock 40.:uhoh:

If you use TG be sure you measure (weigh) it very carefully. It's dense, fast and can go from nice to very high pressure quickly.

eldon519
December 6, 2013, 10:56 AM
In regards to 2), check the case head/rim. Sometimes you can tell how many times it's been reloaded from there based on ejector and extractor marks. It's hard to tell exactly what is going on in the picture because of the shine, but it doesn't look like anything I would be too worried about.

smovlov
December 6, 2013, 01:32 PM
Thanks for the input! Ill back off on the crimp.

If you use TG be sure you measure (weigh) it very carefully. It's dense, fast and can go from nice to very high pressure quickly.

I messed with Titegroup in the auto measure and charged and weighed 100 throws. I also double charged to see if I could tell the difference while they were in the loading block and I was able to find the ones that were wrong. All charges were +/- 1 gr. I had been using Titegroup in the .38 and .357 as it was all I could find for a while. The .40 case makes it super easy to see the powder comparatively. I'm planning on finding a load that will function and stopping there as I see no need to try and push Titegroup to the max. There are much better powders for that.

Rule3
December 6, 2013, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the input! Ill back off on the crimp.



I messed with Titegroup in the auto measure and charged and weighed 100 throws. I also double charged to see if I could tell the difference while they were in the loading block and I was able to find the ones that were wrong. All charges were +/- 1 gr. I had been using Titegroup in the .38 and .357 as it was all I could find for a while. The .40 case makes it super easy to see the powder comparatively. I'm planning on finding a load that will function and stopping there as I see no need to try and push Titegroup to the max. There are much better powders for that.

Excellent! Sounds like you are on the right track. Just wanted to be sure you are aware of it. Nothing wrong with the powder and no attempt to get you nervous:)

gamestalker
December 6, 2013, 06:53 PM
I get concerned when someone asks me how much set back is considered acceptable, because set back is never a good thing. It appears that the single most misunderstood element of reloading for auto loading pistols, is the crimp.

Increasing the crimp for these type cases is counter productive and will only decrease neck tension, not increase it. So only remove the bell, more than that, and your degrading neck tension, and risking creating other issues.

The scratches are likely caused by feeding and extraction during cycling, nothing to be concerned about if they aren't deep.

As for bulge buster dies, I've never come across brass that was needing any additional work beyond what a standard sizing die provides.

As long as the brass isn't showing any signs of corrosion that is breaching the surface, it should be fine.

GS

smovlov
December 6, 2013, 07:24 PM
Thanks GS,

I'm going to try loading a few by chamfering and not flaring the way you've described and see what happens. The small amount of setback could also be because the rounds were over crimped. I'll check it out and report back. Thanks again!

steve4102
December 6, 2013, 07:35 PM
You will sorry you decided not to Flare the case mouth with your plated bullets. Not over flare, just flare. Carry on. Good luck, you may need it.

smovlov
December 6, 2013, 09:17 PM
Just tried it. No problems! Also zero setback after chambering multiple times. My guess is I was over crimping. :cool:

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