9mm factory crimp or taper crimp?


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Packnteacher
December 5, 2013, 10:18 PM
I'm trying to find a carbide taper crimp die for 9mm, and I can't remember what I did to get my 45 one. RCBS doesn''t seem to be the source, b/c their web site doesn't seem to recognize the word "die". The closest I seem to be able to come is a Lee Carbide die, but it's a factory crimp (whatever that is). So, my friends, y'got some info for me? wottinhell is the "factory" crimp, and is it about as good as the taper crimp I'm used to?

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Ex
December 5, 2013, 10:23 PM
In 9mm, factory should be a taper.

Walkalong
December 5, 2013, 10:26 PM
I have never seen a carbide crimp die. The Lee factory crimp die for pistol calibers has a carbide ring insert to "post size" rounds to make sure they fit chambers (Even if they have to squish them to do so.), but the crimp is done with a steel piece.

There is no need for a carbide surface crimp die. Steel works just fine.

I am not a fan of the Lee FCD, so I would recommend any taper crimp only die to crimp with, assuming you do not want to use the seater to crimp while seating. Lee (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274765/lee-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger), Redding (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/214068/redding-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger), Hornady (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/538099/hornady-custom-grade-new-dimension-taper-crimp-die-9mm-38-super), etc.

1SOW
December 5, 2013, 10:27 PM
The LEE FCD is more than just a taper crimp die. It also has a carbide ring that checks the loaded cartridge full length for SAAMI max. sizes.
Problems arise when oversize bullets are used, like lead or a couple of thousandths over standard size. The full length check will squish the oversize bullets down. With standard size bullets, I've never had a problem with it. It can serve as the separate crimping die in this case.

Lee does make a regular crimping die, that is said to work very well.

sexybeast
December 5, 2013, 10:29 PM
The Lee factory crimp die has a carbide ring at the bottom of the die and more or less resizes the whole round after the bullet is set along with an adjustable taper crimp. I don't think the taper crimp part of the die is carbide. My taper crimp dies are not carbide either and I load ten to fifteen thousand rounds a year with no problems and its not wore out yet.
Do a search on Lee Factory Crimp dies on this forum and others. There is quite a bit of discussion on it. Some love these dies and others think they are a fix for a problem that does not exist.
I use to use them for all my pistol rounds but now I just tapercrimp.

Packnteacher
December 5, 2013, 10:44 PM
Thank you, Walkalong. As usual, this forum is the answer to my problems. Thanks for that input on carbide crimp dies. Useful info, that.

Eb1
December 5, 2013, 11:18 PM
Taper Crimp

Guilty
December 6, 2013, 10:02 PM
I use the Lee FCD, it is extremely simple to use and quickly removes any flare on the brass. I only load FMJ or JHP, no plated or lead so the Lee FCD is the perfect crimping type die for my reloading needs.

2bfree
December 6, 2013, 11:26 PM
This one should work for ya if you don't want to seat and crimp in one step.
Lee Taper Crimp Die http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274765/lee-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger

Rule3
December 6, 2013, 11:52 PM
Regular LEE seating dies for semi autos taper crimp. Those for revolvers roll crimp The LEE FCD does the same as well as resizes the case.

If you have LEE dies for the 45 it is already taper crimping if if you set it correctly. You can st to crimp while seating or not to crimp.

hentown
December 7, 2013, 10:27 AM
I am a fan of the FCD, not for the post-sizing feature, but for the manner in which the crimp is applied and how the crimp is easily adjusted. I like having an adjusting stem, rather than having to screw the die body in and out for crimp adjustment.

I don't load any lead; do load a lot of plated bullets. Never feel the carbide sizing ring doing anything to my loaded plated bullets.

Walkalong
December 7, 2013, 01:40 PM
I like having an adjusting stem, rather than having to screw the die body in and out for crimp adjustment. That is indeed a nice feature. I get around re-adjusting crimp dies by using spacers. I adjust the die for a heavy crimp (Or the heaviest I will use it for.) and use spacers for a lesser crimp. I log the spacer I use. .005, .010, .015, etc, etc.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7771485&postcount=2
.

bds
December 7, 2013, 01:48 PM
load a lot of plated bullets. Never feel the carbide sizing ring doing anything to my loaded plated bullets.
Maybe because your plated bullets are properly sized and not out-of-round. :)

I think that's the reason why many plated bullet manufacturers double-strike their bullets after plating, to better ensure the bullets are not out-of-round and within dimensional specs.

AABEN
December 7, 2013, 02:31 PM
I have used LEE dies for 10.000 9 mm rounds and have never had one that did not work! I use Lee dies for all caliber that I load.

mtrmn
December 7, 2013, 02:40 PM
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=2039&dir=

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=4516&dir=

rfwobbly
December 7, 2013, 08:29 PM
Like Walkalong, I am not a fan of the Lee Factory Crimp Die either.

However, I am a huge fan of the Lee one-piece Taper Crimp Die that get's very little press, here or elsewhere. I like it better than the Dillon or Redding TC dies. And it's only $12. If you want to move your TC operation to a separate position, then this is your die.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274765/lee-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger

ddc
December 8, 2013, 01:15 PM
Like Walkalong, I am not a fan of the Lee Factory Crimp Die either.

However, I am a huge fan of the Lee one-piece Taper Crimp Die that get's very little press, here or elsewhere. I like it better than the Dillon or Redding TC dies. And it's only $12. If you want to move your TC operation to a separate position, then this is your die.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/274765/lee-taper-crimp-die-9mm-luger

The Lee product information for that die includes the following:

"Jacketed bullets must have a crimp groove (cannelure)."

I'm confused by that statement. I thought a taper crimp was often used when a crimp groove was not present?

None of the 9mm jacketed bullets I'm reloading have a crimp groove and I'm using the Lee FCD which I've assumed is doing a taper crimp.

Why would it be ok use the FCD on bullets without a groove but not ok to use the taper crimp die on those same bullets?

sexybeast
December 8, 2013, 01:44 PM
I have used LEE dies for 10.000 9 mm rounds and have never had one that did not work! I use Lee dies for all caliber that I load.
__________________


I agree. The factory crimp die re-sizes the whole cartridge "after" the bullet is set. It cleans it up and they will work. Where you really run into problems is when you are using larger bullets or the case wall is thicker and the factory crimp die squishes the bullet smaller in diameter with that carbide ring. Its a great idea, but with 9mm in my testing it was ruining accuracy with lead bullets. Probably other calibers too except I did not really do a lot of side by side testing.
If you do everything right and do the least amount of taper crimping that works you will be ahead of the game.
All my factory crimp dies are sitting in a box now and I have replaced them with taper crimp dies

Walkalong
December 8, 2013, 02:45 PM
Why would it be ok use the FCD on bullets without a groove but not ok to use the taper crimp die on those same bullets?It's fine. I have no idea why their literature is worded that way.

hentown
December 8, 2013, 07:21 PM
Lee probably hired the same guy for writing their instructions as they hired to design the Toadmaster. :evil:

I just finished a batch of 10k RMR plated bullets in 9mm, using Lee dies, including their FCD. I'm using an RCBS electric bullet feeder and am able to knock out a bunch of quality ammo in a hurry.

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