les baer front cocking serrations


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roval
December 5, 2013, 11:30 PM
the gun is such a hard fit does anybody use them? my gun has had probably a thousand rounds so it's broken in but I still have to grab it from the rear and grip hard to cock it. I am partial to having no fcs. looks cleaner. why do most of his models still feature it. it would eliminate a manufacturing step.

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orionengnr
December 5, 2013, 11:33 PM
My LB does not have FCS...but it is at least ten years old.
Market trends, perhaps?
Newer is not always better. :)

Teachu2
December 6, 2013, 12:22 AM
If you grip them with your weak hand and hold the gun against your belly, then push the grip forward with your strong hand, they work.

This technique also works for people who have problems racking slides on other semis. My wife uses it on her M&P 9c.

MAG-63
December 6, 2013, 07:47 AM
FCS area gimmick (like FLGRs and rails) targeted for the mall-ninja audience.

Nomad
December 6, 2013, 03:34 PM
Never use them. For me they are a waste.

ATLDave
December 6, 2013, 03:44 PM
I don't use them myself, but the fastest I've ever seen a guy clear a malfunction was using them. He basically rotated his support hand 90 over the top of the slide, pinched the forward serrations on his gun between his finger and the side of the base of his index finger (thumb of left hand on right side of gun), racked out the bad/jammed round, and was back shooting again before I even realized what was happening. Much faster than one could possibly have cleared using the "overhand" method or the old-school slingshot at the back of the slide. Blazing fast.

Personally, I'd be scared to get my hand so close to the muzzle while moving that fast. But he was very good at it.

roval
December 6, 2013, 04:00 PM
I don't use them myself, but the fastest I've ever seen a guy clear a malfunction was using them. He basically rotated his support hand 90 over the top of the slide, pinched the forward serrations on his gun between his finger and the side of the base of his index finger (thumb of left hand on right side of gun), racked out the bad/jammed round, and was back shooting again before I even realized what was happening was that with a les baer? that's amazing, those pistols are tight. was just thinking of the manufacturing step cost since he's obviously very much in cost containment considering the fabulous packaging the gun comes in... Mind you i love my gun and was in fact thinking of getting another one but it also had the fcs but the version also came with one without the fcs so i held off.

RussB
December 6, 2013, 04:34 PM
The FCS's are for doing a press check...with a round already chambered

roval
December 6, 2013, 05:00 PM
I do know people use them for press checking I just can't use them for that purpose in this particular pistol. wondering if somebody uses it. it was just an idle question.

ATLDave
December 6, 2013, 05:16 PM
was that with a les baer? that's amazing, those pistols are tight. was just thinking of the manufacturing step cost since he's obviously very much in cost containment considering the fabulous packaging the gun comes in... Mind you i love my gun and was in fact thinking of getting another one but it also had the fcs but the version also came with one without the fcs so i held off.

Nope. IIRC, it was an STI, probably in .40. It was surely a tight-ish gun, too, since it was a gamer gun. But it also likely had a lighter spring than yours.

I was really responding to those who said that forward serrations just didn't have any point other than "mall ninja" appeal.

Greg528iT
December 6, 2013, 05:19 PM
Front Cocking Serrations. I guess I really don't care enough to worry about them or lack of them.

The FCS's are for doing a press check...with a round already chambered
Hmmmm.. I thought about this and if I positioned my hands such that I'd be able to see the opening. This had me hanging the butt end of my left hand over the muzzle. I'm going to say.... NO.. I do not like this...

pendennis
December 6, 2013, 05:23 PM
Don't know about you guys, but I have no intentions of putting my off hand anywhere near the muzzle of a gun, for any reason. Too much downside. :eek: :eek: :( :(

JTQ
December 6, 2013, 05:24 PM
I can't tell if this is a Les Baer in this video, but Clint Smith is know to have a Les Baer or two. You can see him use the FCS in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntpSu0c-tLo

Tiger McKee is possibly using a Les Baer in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkZgYb-ReSU

I suspect both of their 1911's have significantly more than 1,000 rounds through them.

The Lone Haranguer
December 6, 2013, 06:32 PM
FCSs have their roots in "race guns" with optical sights atop the slide, which made using the conventional rear serrations problematic. Now they're more for grasping the slide to retract it for a chamber check. Although one of my guns, a CZ75D Compact, has them, I have no use for them myself. I don't like to check my chamber this way, and I feel they're unattractive.

Ankeny
December 6, 2013, 06:44 PM
If you combine posts 4 and 8 the answer becomes clear. The front cocking serrations are for press checking mall ninjas. FWIW, I don't consider myself a "mall ninja" but I do have front cocking serrations on all of my 1911s.

FCSs have their roots in "race guns" The roots of FCSs predate race guns. The Colt Model 1902 .38 Military came out with front cocking serrations because it was thought they offered a more secure grip. The Colt 1905 had the cocking serrations moved to rear for safety (some folks weren't smart enough to keep their hand from in front of the slide), and because front serrations were hard on leather holsters.

tark
December 6, 2013, 06:52 PM
Hi guys. I can speak with a little authority on Les Baer guns as I have worked for Les for 23 years and counting. I'm semi retired but I still work for Les two days a week Front cocking serrations ....suck. That's my opinion. Les loves em' and they are standard on our guns. They can be omitted when ordering the gun at no cost and you would be surprised how many old schoolers like myself do so.

tark
December 6, 2013, 06:57 PM
P>S> Forgot to mention that Les loves his hard fits also, but like the Fcs s you can order the gun with a lockup that doesn't require Superman to rack the slide. That is at no charge.

tarosean
December 6, 2013, 07:24 PM
Interestingly enough the only gun I own with FCS is my Heavyweight Mono.. I've never used them and will probably have them filled when it comes time to refinish.

tark
December 6, 2013, 08:11 PM
A lot of people order Monoliths from us without front cocking serrations. It makes the gun look like an early Colt auto..

jfrey
December 6, 2013, 10:31 PM
My BOSS doesn't have 'em and I don't miss 'em. My Briley's do but I never use 'em.

JTQ
December 7, 2013, 07:26 AM
tark,

Welcome to the forum. It's good to have your insight here.

Would one expect the 1.5" guarantee's to be even harder to rack than a standard Baer? Are there models in the line-up that would be expected to have a tighter fit than other models?

Peter M. Eick
December 7, 2013, 12:29 PM
Actually, I have found my 1.5" Baers are easier to rack then my 3". Go figure?

My guess is they are just better smoother fit so it is easier.

I use my FCS for press checks and occasional racking. Just the way I was taught I guess. I would miss them if they were gone from my Baer's but if they are not there I don't really notice it.

johnmcl
December 7, 2013, 03:40 PM
Those FCS on the Baer guns are fine by me.

When used in competition, they are great for a press check that all is well. In the real world when the gun is stuck, and I mean really stuck closed in battery, I find I get the greatest traction with my left hand over the top of the slide, onto the FCS pulling back while my strong hand pushes forward.

Summary --> I like them.

tark
December 7, 2013, 07:10 PM
Its good to be here, JTQ. Believe it or not, at age 65, this is my first computer and I am still learning how to use it. The inch and a half guns do require some extra work to fit, and they usually ARE a bit harder to rack, but like Mr. Eick has discovered that is not always the case. We can make them downright loose if the customer wishes. A few years back we built a P-2 for Steven Segal and he specifically requested that the slide be easy to rack

tark
December 7, 2013, 07:21 PM
Almost forgot to answer the second part of your question! All frame to slide fits are to the same standard, that was for many years my job. I tried to make them all good enough for 1 1/2" guns. Stainless is the exception. We do not offer 1 1/2" groups on stainless guns, and with stainless steel you run into the problem of galling. The frame and slide are lapped in with JB compound by the final assembly man and that invariably loosens the fit.
The frames and slides come off the CNC machines with all dimensions just a bit oversize. The actual fitting takes about ten to fifteen minutes.

HighExpert
December 7, 2013, 07:34 PM
Tark, I have one of Les' first Premier wadcutter guns. Mine is so old that it came with a Caspian frame. Still shoots less than 1.5 @ 50yds out of a Ransom rest. I ordered mine without the ambi-safety by the way. Great gun.

tuj
December 8, 2013, 07:59 AM
I use them all the time to verify a round has chambered before a string in competition.

Rexster
December 8, 2013, 08:37 AM
FCS has nothing to do with ninjas or malls. As mentioned already, in at least one post, they are helpful for those using optics that cover the rear of the slide, and for those who prefer them for a chamber check. I remember when they became fashionable, and for many, today, that is what they are, a fashion statement.

If I ever order a Baer, built to my specs, perhaps as a retirement gift for myself, it will not have FCS. If I buy a Baer from a dealer, and it has FCS, that is OK with me, too. My Thunder Ranch Special has FCS, which do not bother me.

tark
December 9, 2013, 08:05 PM
High expert, glad you like the gun. You really DO have an oldie there, when we first got started we used Caspian frames, as Les and Gary over at Caspian are good friends. It took less than a year before we were machining our own. I was checkering the front straps in those days, which I still do today. I did everything on your gun except the barrel lockup and the final assembly. We only had four people working for us back then, which would have been 92-93.

Peter M. Eick
December 10, 2013, 01:22 PM
You probably checkered my first Baer. It was from around early 94? I still have and shoot that gun and it has held up well.

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