CFE Pistol


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Lj1941
December 6, 2013, 06:10 PM
I see in Hodgdon's online data they have a new powder listed with data for a bunch of different calibers. They have some impressive velocities with some of theses loads. Has anyone found and tried any of this powder or is it just a figment of our imagination such as Alliant's mystery BE 86 powder?:evil:

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KansasSasquatch
December 6, 2013, 08:04 PM
Interesting. I saw the titled and thought you were going to ask if CFE223 was safe in pistol loads. But sure enough Hodgdon has "CFE Pistol" listed in their 9mm data. It's very interesting since just a few days ago I was looking at their 9mm data and didn't notice it. I can't find anything else on their website that even mentions this powder. Maybe they're getting ready to release it and someone updated the data before they were supposed to. I might just give them a call on it Monday....

ngnrd
December 6, 2013, 08:05 PM
I see that 'CFE Pistol' shows up in the reloading data, but I can't find it anywhere else on their website. It must be pretty new. Probably so new that few people - if any - have had a chance to try it. But, I'd say that it's too soon to start calling it a 'figment of our imagination' just yet.

Lj1941
December 6, 2013, 11:25 PM
I am just saying a " figment of imagination" because of Alliant's performance with their "BE 86". They have been bragging it up for around 9 months or more on their website and no data or powder from them.There is a bit of sarcasim in my post.:)
I like what I see in the data and will give it a try ASAP.

ngnrd
December 7, 2013, 12:14 AM
Yeah. But, I'd at least let Hodgdon actually announce their new products before pouring on the cynicism.:rolleyes:

gahunter12
December 7, 2013, 01:20 AM
Look for it at Shot Show. It's just around the corner. :)

ArchAngelCD
December 7, 2013, 04:54 AM
Hodgdon often lists load data for a new powder before they announce or release a new powder. I think that's a better system than announcing the powder first but not having data or releasing the powder.

steve4102
December 7, 2013, 10:04 AM
Announced here.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/09/new-cfe-pistol-reduced-fouling-pistol-powder-from-hodgdon/

Lj1941
December 7, 2013, 08:58 PM
I did some checking and Hodgdon says it will be available in January 2014.

1SOW
December 7, 2013, 11:08 PM
On another forum, one guy said he saw it it at his LGS.

The 9mm 124gr pistol load data looks like mid-range loads fits a minor PF load pretty well.
The Hogdon site describes the new CFE "223", but not CFE "Pistol".

Ex
December 7, 2013, 11:37 PM
Looked at the Hodgdon page for this new CFE pistol powder and it looks to be pretty impressive stuff! I on of ya'll gets to try it, certainly post here your results and impressions!

ArchAngelCD
December 7, 2013, 11:59 PM
OH OH that means all my W231 is obsolete!!! :banghead: lol

Lj1941
December 8, 2013, 12:31 AM
I need to check with Tony at TNT. That is my local source. They are a little vague but say some could be in dealers hands now.I am especially impressed with the 45 ACP loads.

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 12:38 AM
I would be more interested in LFE. I have no problem with copper fouling in my handguns. Lead is more troublesome.:rolleyes: More hype IMO.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2013, 01:19 AM
I would be more interested in LFE. I have no problem with copper fouling in my handguns. Lead is more troublesome.:rolleyes: More hype IMO.
I rarely disagree with you but this time I just might have to. If CFE Pistol is anywhere as good as CFE223 it's not hype. CFE223 actually removed copper that's in barrels let alone not allowing copper to form. I got that information from Mike Venturino in an article written in Handloader Magazine.

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 12:37 PM
I rarely disagree with you but this time I just might have to. If CFE Pistol is anywhere as good as CFE223 it's not hype. CFE223 actually removed copper that's in barrels let alone not allowing copper to form. I got that information from Mike Venturino in an article written in Handloader Magazine.

No problem, that's what it it's all about :) it may very well be good , can't say as I have not used it nor the rifle version. Rifles can certainly build up copper fouling. I certainly do not shoot enough rounds through a handgun to warrant cleaning powder. I am so anal about cleaning there is no chance of fouling:D

KansasSasquatch
December 8, 2013, 01:01 PM
Hey I'm with you on that idea, Rule3. It's hard for copper to build up in a pistol barrel if all you shoot through it is cast lead. But if I had to bet on it, I'd say they most likely never be able to make such a gun powder.

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 01:44 PM
I shoot a lot of FMJ bullets also. I just bought from Wiedners, some brass jacketed bullets, guess I will need BFE powder

Hey that came out funny, that's Brass Fouling Eraser not the other.;)

KansasSasquatch
December 8, 2013, 10:35 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess by looking at load data that it's going to be a fairly slow burning powder. I think somewhere between HS-6 and HS-7 on Hodgdon's burn rate chart. What's everybody else think?

bds
December 8, 2013, 11:14 PM
This is purely my guess - Is CFE Pistol what Winchester has been using in their new PDX1 JHP ammunition?

Alliant Unique is popular as it loads just about every pistol caliber from good mid-range target loads to full-power loads good enough for defensive loads.

Winchester 231/HP-38 is also a popular powder as it loads just about every pistol caliber at light to high range target loads but comes up short on full power loads for defensive loads. For that, you have to reach for WSF/HS-6/AutoComp. Many claim Universal is Hodgdon's answer to Unique but Universal does not produce the velocities as high as WSF/HS-6/AutoComp.

Perhaps, Hodgdon is trying to put out a competing product (as they are licensed by Winchester to sell their products already like W231 as HP-38) for Unique that can load most pistol calibers with high enough velocities for full-power loads good enough for defensive loads? Maybe CFE Pistol is canister version of what Winchester has been using in their new PDX1 JHP ammunition line that's been producing high muzzle velocity numbers.

I recently switched to PDX1 Defender JHP for 380 Auto because of 1000 fps muzzle velocity for 95 gr bullet - http://www.winchester.com/products/handgun-ammunition/Innovative/PDX1-Defender/Pages/S380PDB.aspx

Winchester PDX1 (energy in ft-lbs):

380Auto 95 gr - 1000 fps (211) / @50 feet - 925 fps (180)
9mm 125 gr +P - 1200 fps (396) / @50 feet - 1095 fps (330)
40S&W 165 gr - 1140 fps (476) / @50 feet - 1049 fps (403)
45ACP 230 gr - 920 fps (432) / @50 feet - 882 fps (397)

bds
December 8, 2013, 11:35 PM
OH OH that means all my W231 is obsolete!!!
If CFE Pistol METERS as well as W231/HP-38 AND can produce accurate mid-range target loads AND produce full-power loads with high enough velocities like Unique/WSF WITH THE abilities to load magnum loads AND not be temperature/position sensitive for match PF chrono tests, we may finally have the "one" pistol powder to rule them all - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6866057#post6866057

If that's the case, I would happily replace W231/HP-38/Universal/WSF/AutoComp with CFE Pistol, especially for 40S&W.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2013, 11:43 PM
If CFE Pistol METERS as well as W231/HP-38 AND can produce accurate mid-range target loads AND produce full-power loads with high enough velocities like Unique/WSF WITH THE abilities to load magnum loads AND not be temperature/position sensitive for match PF chrono tests, we may finally have the "one" pistol powder to rule them all - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=6866057#post6866057

If that's the case, I would happily replace W231/HP-38/Universal/WSF/AutoComp with CFE Pistol, especially for 40S&W.
The problem isn't replacing the powder/powders, the problem is the amount of W231 I have on hand... lol I'm going to be a VERY old man before I can use up all the W231 I own if ever! :p

I completely agree with you. If a new produce comes along that will do it better I will use it without hesitation, especially if it replaces several products at the same time...

ssyoumans
December 8, 2013, 11:53 PM
Wish it said something about being a low flash powder like Silhouette. I've used a lot of Unique, w231 and power pistol. Lately though been tinkering with True Blue. It seems to be pretty versatile.

bds
December 8, 2013, 11:59 PM
Pssst, ArchAngelCD,

If CFE Pistol hits the retail/online shelves, we'll still be able to offload our 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38 as they'll still be very popular with other "uninformed" reloaders. ;)

If the new powder does perform well, I will probably replace Clays/WST/Titegroup/W231/HP-38/Universal/WSF but keep AutoComp for 40S&W as it produces similar max velocities at much lower chamber pressures.
165 gr SIE JHP CFE Pistol Start 6.0 gr (1038 fps) 25,500 PSI - Max 6.8 gr (1149 fps) 32,400 PSI

165 gr SIE JHP AutoComp Start 6.5 gr (1037 fps) 25,600 PSI - Max 7.1 gr (1124 fps) 31,500 PSI

165 gr. SIE JHP WSF Start 6.3 gr (1055 fps) 28,100 PSI - Max 6.7 gr (1115 fps) 32,700 PSI

1SOW
December 9, 2013, 01:43 AM
It sure won't load any 'magnum' loads in 9x19, but it " sounds" very good.
If it's small flattened ball powder like the rifle powder it should meter well.

Cleanliness, muzzle flash, position sensitivity, temp sensitivity and consistancy from lot to lot will take quite a while being before we know.

I'll try a pound for 9mm Luger if any shows up locally, because it looks well suited to 130PF with 124/125gr bullets.

Fingers crossed it'll replace/match n320 performance.

Lj1941
December 9, 2013, 08:25 AM
Pssst, ArchAngelCD,

If CFE Pistol hits the retail/online shelves, we'll still be able to offload our 8 lb jugs of W231/HP-38 as they'll still be very popular with other "uninformed" reloaders. ;)

If the new powder does perform well, I will probably replace Clays/WST/Titegroup/W231/HP-38/Universal/WSF but keep AutoComp for 40S&W as it produces similar max velocities at much lower chamber pressures.It says in some of the releases that it is also low flash. Time will tell.

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