Does Glock make nail-guns?


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Drizzt
February 4, 2003, 07:17 PM
Quick-draw nail guns fire requests for safer triggers

By Virginia Baldwin Gilbert
Of the Post-Dispatch
02/02/2003 10:17 PM

Some leaders in the construction industry want workers and contractors to change their trigger-happy ways — nail gun triggers, that is.

A study of carpenter injuries in St. Louis region found that for every 100 apprentice carpenters working in residential construction in a year, nearly four are injured seriously enough with a nail gun to seek medical care.

Some carpenters have nailed a foot to the floor, shot 2-inch nails into a co-worker's thigh, nailed their knuckles together, shot a nail into their own knee or head.

Employers and workers alike have a new tool for improving safety — a study that collected data from 875 carpenters injured on the job in the St. Louis region in the last three years.

The study prompted the Carpenters District Council of Greater St. Louis and Vicinity to increase apprentices' training.

"What we found was that people new to a job site, in particular, were being put in precarious situations," said John Gaal, director of training and work-force development for the carpenters union.

To reach beyond apprentices, the District Council has published safety articles in local and national publications for carpenters.

Behlman Builders Inc., one of the region's larger carpenter subcontractors, requires all its workers to pass written and hands-on safety tests before they are allowed to use nail guns. If a worker has an injury with a nail gun, he or she must pass the test again.

But the two men who interviewed hundreds of injured fellow carpenters haven't stopped at training and work habits. They want the tools changed, and a tool manufacturers' trade organization agrees.

One type of nail-gun trigger, called a contact trigger, allows the user to press the trigger and fire a nail by hitting the end of the tool against a surface. Many carpenters "bounce nail," by holding the trigger down and repeatedly hitting the nose of the gun to the surface to be nailed.

In contrast, a sequential trigger requires that users place the gun in position, then pull the trigger each time they want to shoot a nail.

More than half the nail-gun injuries in the study could have been prevented with the safer trigger, said Hester Lipscomb, the Duke University professor who led the St. Louis study.

Many contact-trigger guns are capable of firing nine nails a second, said Jim Nolan one of the carpenters who conducted the interviews for the study. "Why would you need to do that?" said Nolan, who built houses for 42 years without ever using a nail gun.

Paslode, a division of Illinois Tool Works, developed the nail gun nearly 40 years ago and is still the No. 1 manufacturer. It has sold more contact triggers than sequential triggers, "because that's what the market wanted," said Pat Ryan, a spokesman.

"In the last 12 to 18 months, there's been a change," Ryan said. "A lot of big contractors want the sequential trigger for safety."

Paslode will be changing its nail guns to comply with new safety standards recently developed by the International Staple, Nail and Tool Association, based in LaGrange, Ill.

John Kurtz, executive vice president of the trade association, attended a construction safety conference in Chicago last spring where Lipscomb, Nolan and his fellow interviewer, Denny Patterson, presented their data and urged design changes.

The new standards "probably do what they would like," Kurtz said. Members of the association approved the standards in December, and they are set to go into effect May 1, he said.

http://post-dispatch.com/stltoday/business/stories.nsf/Business/A569D603AAD9045986256CC2001C598F?OpenDocument&Headline=Quick-draw+nail+guns+fire+requests+for+safer+triggers

:neener:

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Sven
February 4, 2003, 07:29 PM
I remember working construction... we learned pretty quick that you could just carefully push the safety back and then... WHAM shoot those suckers across the room and into drywall.

Pretty intense.

Bruce H
February 4, 2003, 07:38 PM
We use then everyday. No amount of safety devices will make up for stupidity or carlessness. If they made them go back to hammers and nails they would complain about mashed fingers, and nerf hammers would become all the rage.

hammer4nc
February 4, 2003, 08:21 PM
Bruce H has it right...but I noticed this "safety alert" has a lot in common with firearms legislation....specifically:

"Why would you need to do that?" said Nolan, who built houses for 42 years without ever using a nail gun.

Sound familiar? Gee, this guy must have been building houses in North Korea, or he must be about 95 years old...any carpenter who showed up on a job without nail guns, in the last 20 years would be laughed off the job, or bankrupt. What's next, handsaws instead of skilsaws? But more importantly, notice the main proponent of a move to regulate the tool industry has absolutely no expertise in the use of said tools. Classic pattern. I'd bet this guy has a close friend or relative who has been maimed by a nail gun, and this has become his raison d'etre.

We use nailguns every day, some with sequential triggers, some without. Each has its place, and there's no substitute for trigger finger discipline. For some production jobs like roofing and panelling, sequential triggers would slow the job down by about 50% (informal guess). No mention of job economics in this article. If all roofing guns suddenly come with sequential triggers, you'll see an instant market for "pre-ban" nail guns, and black market "contact seer" kits...

Even more parallels to firearms. Just glad the BATF(E) hasn't gotten involved (yet).:what:

HABU
February 4, 2003, 08:49 PM
Many contact-trigger guns are capable of firing nine nails a second :scrutiny:

I have used nail guns for years and have never seen nine nails per second. I've never shot myself with a nail and still have all my fingers too. All one needs to do is keep their head pulled out, and all is well.

The equivalent of sweeping me with your muzzle is to walk down a ladder with your finger depressing the trigger. That will earn a :cuss: post haste!

I once had an apprentice come up to me and show me his finger with a 16d through it!:what: A rectal/caranial inversion will earn you a nail in your fingers!

BamBam
February 4, 2003, 08:57 PM
Like Bruce H said:

I framed my shop with a nail gun and roofed it with one, too. Never had an injury. Although I used a hammer for only a few aspects of construction, I smashed my thumb at least twice.

4,000 nails thru the nailguns= 0 injuries
200 nails driven with hammer= 2 smashed thumbs

redneck
February 4, 2003, 09:40 PM
Bein a poor hammer swinger myself. I think construction workers have gotten to be a might on the wimpy side. Do it yourselfers too. Everybody's dependant on nail guns now.
They have their place but, lord, quit cryin if you have to actually swing a hammer. An if you hit your fingers, maybe you haven't got enough practice. Heres an idea, keep yer damn fingers away from what your swingin at. Muzzle control? Safe trigger skills? Same idea.
The guys that are shootin themselves an drivin 9 nails a second don't have a clue where they're sendin em. Its a wonder anything they're buildin holds together an you can bet theres a lot of split studs.

I've met guys that would drag out the compressor, load up a mag of nails, dang near hang himself on the lines, all to tack 1 board up. :rolleyes: Then they rehang themselves, unhook the gun, load up a mag for a different gun with smaller nails, almost hang themself again and put up 1 more board.:scrutiny:
Why the heck didn't you just use one hammer to drive both types of nail and finish puttin up both boards an hour ago? "Well, I spent lots of money on this here gun so I oughta use it, besides I hit my fingers twice as much as I hit the nail."

Before you tell me to try roofing without a nail gun, been there an done that. I used a 28 OZ vaughn the whole way through. You can start the nail just by pushin it into the shingle an its only 3 swings at the most. I'd fall off the roof tryin to crawl along an lay shinges much faster than that ;)

I don't have anything against usin a nail gun, but I get real tired of people tearin up an whinin at the thought of having to actually swing a hammer. An the idiots that start trying to carry their compressor up onto the roof cause they have more extension cords than air hoses make me sick :banghead:


hows that for a rant on a gun related forum :D

jmbg29
February 4, 2003, 09:50 PM
What Bruce said.

I would only add that I see serious nail-gun injuries as a positive. With any luck at all, the more that stupid people maim and disfigure themselves (as well as those stupid enough to work with morons) the better. It just might help limit their chance of successfully breeding.

I can dream, can't I?

BTW I'm a contractor that will only work with intelligent people, and I carry a Glock 29 everywhere including work.

Zero injuries have been produced or sustained from either.

Go figure, no stupid people = no serious accidents.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Life is so much easier with no twits around.:D

Bosco Baracus
February 5, 2003, 09:03 PM
What would be nice is a thumb-selector so the operator can choose what mode he's in. S-E-F.

I use nailers when I'm working on something big, but for short-term CQB work I prefer my Estwing.:)

gun-fucious
February 5, 2003, 09:39 PM
uh, how does one:

Some carpenters have nailed a foot to the floor, shot 2-inch nails into a co-worker's thigh, nailed their knuckles together, shot a nail into their own knee or head.

MountainPeak
February 5, 2003, 09:51 PM
Bruce H nailed it! We can all quit posting about this thread.

redneck
February 5, 2003, 10:28 PM
Gun Fucios
The idiots that nail they're own thigh do it because they're to stupid not to hold the trigger in (on the contact types) and then rest the gun on their thigh.
As far as their OWN head.....the only case I've ever heard about that was the guy putting down baseboard. He cut his hand or part of it off with a miter saw and decided to end it all with a brad nailer. His co workers found him with 12 tacks in his head and took him to the hospital to have his hand re attached. He lived.

Azrael256
February 5, 2003, 10:45 PM
9 nails a second... I didn't time it, but I had a roofing nailer that would probably do it. We built a fence in my backyard, and dad did a little demonstration with the nailgun and a 2x4. Then he told me to treat it just like a firearm. In the subsequent 15 years, I've probably shot off 10,000 more nails and staples at various jobs... droped the dang thing on my foot once when I was loading it, that's about it. Be careful, and you *might* get hurt in one of those freak accidents, but you have about a 99% chance of never having an injury.

What this study really shows is that around four percent of apprentice carpenters are idiots who should be weeded out as quickly as possible.

geekWithA.45
February 6, 2003, 12:22 AM
What this study really shows is that around four percent of apprentice carpenters are idiots who should be weeded out as quickly as possible.


That's about the size of it...from what I remember, about 4-5% of all newbies in any job are truly and deeply hopeless.

In fact, I heard that the Dept of Labor considers a baseline of 5% of the otherwise eligible for employment to be completely unemployable due to general purpose stupidity.

Bruce H
February 6, 2003, 07:04 AM
Just think of the construction people in the same vein as the range idiots. About the same percentage with the same results. What will happen is the ride to the rescue by some safety minded beaurucrat or legislator with a nifty cure where no problem exhists.

2nd Amendment
February 6, 2003, 10:00 AM
At this point I can't imagine roofing without a nail gun with a contact trigger. I've done roofing with a hammer and it sucks. Sequential trigger is annoying and slow, but faster than a hammer. Framing guns...well, still the contact trigger is handy. Finish work it doesn't make much difference. Regardless, none of this would cure stupidity or innattentiveness.

Betty
February 6, 2003, 10:15 AM
Sheesh. :rolleyes:

What next, ban the evil Bostitch with the hi-capacity snail-nail drum?

Tamara
February 6, 2003, 10:27 AM
Thay make one with a drum magazine? Cool! :cool:

Ebbtide
February 6, 2003, 11:28 AM
Having spent some time in the building trades I can say accidents are preventable, but eventually if you use a nail gun long enough you will shoot yourself. We are talking thousands of rounds (nails) per day, in a work place that requires speed and quickness. I would not put construction works on line with range idiots.

On the original post of increased safety feature on nail guns, silly.

Elmer Snerd
February 6, 2003, 11:29 AM
Now the antis and safety nazis will want to ban "semi-automatic assault" nail guns and "armor-piercing" nails.
Maybe they will be limited to 10 nails and sold with trigger locks.

Betty
February 6, 2003, 11:36 AM
http://store4.yimg.com/I/dajo_1675_10662079

Bostitch N80CB1 Coil framing nailer - 1-1/2" - 3-1/4" 15 deg. wire weld coil nails, holds 300 nails, aluminum housing, easy load canister. Retail price, $299.95. Get your pre-ban model NOW!

Or you can your basic magazine nailer:
http://store4.yimg.com/I/dajo_1675_10685794

OMG!!! Bostitch has their S.W.A.T. team! :eek:
http://www.stanleybostitch.com/Commerce_01/swat.asp

"The Stanley Works Attack Team (SWAT) is a group of Stanley Factory Representatives that come to a dealer near your home and demonstrate the latest Stanley-Bostitch, Stanley Hand Tools and Goldblatt products."

redneck
February 6, 2003, 09:58 PM
I'm holdin out for a lever action ;)

Azrael256
February 7, 2003, 12:03 PM
Redneck, they've had a lever action on the market for decades. Those expensive hand-powered staple guns also do finishing nails and the like.

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