beginner questions for 30/06


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ontarget
December 6, 2013, 11:33 PM
I am new to reloading and would appreciate some help with load selection.
I will be loading for my 30/06 M17 rifle. Can someone suggest a good load to start out with? I will be mostly shooting targets and whitetail deer out to maybe 250 yards. And does anyone here know what the original standard government load for these M17's or '03 Springfield rifles was?

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readyeddy
December 6, 2013, 11:44 PM
Didn't the M17 fire blanks to send grenades?

Mule
December 6, 2013, 11:58 PM
Same ammo as the Garand. So you will be loading 150gr bullets with IMR-4895.

TenDriver
December 7, 2013, 12:40 AM
My pet load is 46 gr of IMR-4064 and a 150 gr bullet. I just loaded 100 Sierra Pro Hunters that seem to work fairly well in my M1. They do shoot a little low compared to FMJ bullets with the same powder charge for some reason.

dprice3844444
December 7, 2013, 12:42 AM
what other 3006 rifles do you have? if the 1917 has a 1918 bbl,standard load back then was m1 ball around 175 grain bullet.sights were set for that load.
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20Rates_121211.pdf
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/954332/markron-custom-bullet-and-primer-sealer-1-2-oz-liquid
http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm load data
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/index.htm
http://www.giraudtool.com/
http://www.annealingmachines.com/index.php

morcey2
December 7, 2013, 01:23 AM
My go-to load for my 30-06s with 150 gr bullets is 52 gr of IMR-4064 w/ CCI 200 primers. That's in commercial brass. I get good accuracy and about 2900 fps out of both of my 1903s. It's not safe for Garands as it's a little too hot but it's well within the limits of every manual I've seen.

I also have a load that I'm pretty sure is 58 gr of H4350 under 165 gr speer SPBT that does pretty well also. I will check the numbers when I can get to them. If I remember correctly, it gives about 2850 fps.

As always, start low and work up. Check some manuals and work within published load ranges.

Matt

ArchAngelCD
December 7, 2013, 04:03 AM
Didn't the M17 fire blanks to send grenades?
The M1917 was a main battle rifle and in WWII there were more M1917 rifles in combat than the Springfield 03. IMO the M1917 is a better rifle than the 03 or 03A3 but the Springfield gets all the glory.

The M1917 is a bolt action rifle so you have no need to worry about damaging the gas system with too slow a powder. I own and shoot a M1917 all the time and the powder I most use is H4350. Data can be found in your manual or online from Hodgdon.
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

45lcshooter
December 7, 2013, 06:03 AM
Most recipes for 30-06 in US Military firearms is 45-53ish grains of IMR 4895. With a 150gr bullet.

The old weapons do not like today's powders at full pressure, if you would load up an 06 for a Remington 700 medium to hot load and put it in a 03, 03a3, Garand, you might see that war relic weapon in pieces.

My suggestion would be look for the 30-06 caliber specific manual, you can get them on eBay cheap, or I believe its the new Hornady manual that has load info for the Garand, which you could use that info as a reference.

Good luck, shooting old war firearms is always fun, I know I enjoy shooting them more than the new commercial firearms.

sage5907
December 7, 2013, 01:17 PM
I understand that the original military load for the 30-06 was the 150 grain bullet with 47 grains of IMR 4895. I have tried IMR 4895 and I think IMR 4064 with a magnum primer works better in my rifles. 47 grains of IMR 4064 with a magnum primer is a mild load and my favorite hunting load is 51 grains of IMR 4064 with a magnum primer. The magnum primer seems to give more consistent ignition. Remember that military cases are thicker and with commercial cases you can load about a grain more powder for the same pressure.

ontarget
December 8, 2013, 11:08 PM
Thanks, I can't wait to load up some ammo for this M17. I haven't shot it in years and hope to work up a good load so I can retire some of my more modern guns and go back to the old military classics.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2013, 11:43 PM
I understand that the original military load for the 30-06 was the 150 grain bullet with 47 grains of IMR4895.

Remember that military cases are thicker and with commercial cases you can load about a grain more powder for the same pressure.
Actually, that was close to the original M1 Garand load but probably closer to 47.5gr IMR 4895. That was not the original 1903, 1903A3 and M1917 load.

While there may be thicker .308 brass I'm almost sure there was never thicker 30-06 brass made for the military. In any case with such a light load of 47.0gr IMR4895 under a 150gr bullet pressures won't be a problem. The 1990 IMR load manual lists a max charge of 49.5gr IMR4895 under a 150gr bullet with pressures of only 50,000 CUP.

Ifishsum
December 9, 2013, 01:10 AM
My buddy's M1917 shoots best with flat base spitzers, FWIW. I helped him develop loads for it; best was 57gr H4350 and Hornady 165gr SP (Hornady#3040). We tried 165gr SPBT first because that's what I had around - when he accidentally bought a box of the flat base version we loaded them up and were both surprised how much more accurate they were in that rifle.

The M1917 is a very well designed rifle IMO. I'd like to get one for myself at some point

claiborne
December 9, 2013, 06:29 PM
165-168 gr bullets, 47.0 gr IMR4895, CCI 200 primers

Offfhand
December 9, 2013, 06:58 PM
Consult your reloading guides. If you have more than one (which you should) consult them all. That's the best place to begin.

Tom609
December 10, 2013, 03:50 PM
I like to load 'em light and my CMP M1917 does well with 42gr of H4895 and a 165gr FMJBT on top.

MEHavey
December 10, 2013, 04:53 PM
Use any load on Master Po's page and you can't go wrong:

http://masterpostemple.bravepages.com/M1load.htm

sage5907
December 10, 2013, 08:22 PM
Quote: "Actually, that was close to the original M1 Garand load but probably closer to 47.5gr IMR 4895. That was not the original 1903, 1903A3 and M1917 load.

While there may be thicker .308 brass I'm almost sure there was never thicker 30-06 brass made for the military. In any case with such a light load of 47.0gr IMR4895 under a 150gr bullet pressures won't be a problem. The 1990 IMR load manual lists a max charge of 49.5gr IMR4895 under a 150gr bullet with pressures of only 50,000 CUP."

ArchAngleCD, I understand that when the U.S. army changed the 1903 load which was a 220 grain bullet to the 1906 load the cartridge was loaded with a 150 grain flat based bullet. In the 1920's the Army started using the 172 grain boattail bullet for long range target shooting in the Springfield but it didn't work out too well in the M1 when it came along because of the recoil, so the basic Springfield load with a 150/152 grain boattail bullet continued for normal service use in the Springfield, M1917 and the M1. Boattail bullets were loaded because the Army thought they gave better long range performance in machine guns. Back in the early years they didn't have IMR 4895 powder, it had names like No. 15 1/2 and No. 17 1/2 and IMR 4895 may not have come around until prior to WWII.

As to the weight of brass, military 30-06 brass was heavier than most commercial brass, just weight a few cases if you have any doubts. Try comparing military brass to Winchester brass. Remington operated the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Missouri on contract and they probably used surplus military machines to make their own headstamp brass so Remington cases were also heavier than Winchester cases.

edfardos
December 10, 2013, 08:30 PM
57grains of h4350 under 150grain hornady is crazy accurate in a remington 700 30'06. YMMV in classic firearms. 1 in 12 twist?

Edfardos

ArchAngelCD
December 11, 2013, 02:47 AM
As to the weight of brass, military 30-06 brass was heavier than most commercial brass, just weight a few cases if you have any doubts. Try comparing military brass to Winchester brass. Remington operated the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Missouri on contract and they probably used surplus military machines to make their own headstamp brass so Remington cases were also heavier than Winchester cases.
Even if the brass is heavier that doesn't automatically translate into less powder capacity. You might want to check the volume of both those cases before you back that statement.

The 30-06 cartridge was never a NATO cartridge like the 7.62X51mm (.308) and the 5.56mm (.223) are and there were never difference in the brass.

In actuality, the 7.62 NATO generally produces lower pressures than commercial .308 ammo while the 5.56 NATO generates higher pressures.

sage5907
December 11, 2013, 09:49 AM
ArchAngelCD. 30-06 case weight can very from 175 grains to up over 200 grains depending on the individual case and the manufacturer. A 25 grain variance or even a 5 grain variance can change the case volume which directly affects chamber pressure. I used to weigh cases and sort them into batches by weight but I think it is easier just to buy cases made by the same manufacturer to narrow the weight. I have heard that Lapua and Norma cases weights are consistent but I personally use Winchester cases as a cheaper alternative. In my early years of reloading I used Lake City cases because they were easy to get but I don't do that any more.

CarJunkieLS1
December 11, 2013, 05:02 PM
I've had excellent accuracy with 58gr of RL-19 with a 150gr bullet. Its in Remington cases with Remington primers. Its the start load in my hornady manual and its clocking 2500-2600fps in a 22" tube. Its a mild load but scary accurate in the 2 rifles I've shot it in.

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