Hate to keep bugging you guys but need advice...


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1TwistedGimp
December 8, 2013, 01:25 AM
Hey guys,

I need some advice, I have apparently become ADDICTED to reloading.
Today I happened to find a set of .380 dies (lee), I had purchased some 95gr fmj bullets a few weeks ago as well as a couple more manuals a set of .40 dies and some 180gr remington (brass coated) fmj flat point bullets.

First question is: Do I load differently for brass jacketed? These were all I could find so would like to use them. I only have 100 of em and just to learn loading for .40.

Second question: I have data for .380 for the powder I have (IMR SR 4756) but not for the 95gr bullet.
Listed are: max load of 3.6gr 4756 for a 90gr fmj rn
Max load of 3.5gr 4756 for a 100gr fmj rn

There are 95gr loads listed as well but not with sr 4756 powder.
Would it be ill advised to use load data for the heavier 100gr bullet? Obviously i'd have to reduce the load and work up but reducing 10% only leaves a tad over .3gr to work with if it is even ok to do in the first place...:confused:

I haven't loaded up anything yet, I've made a couple dummy rounds in .40 and one in .380 just to learn the setup of the dies.
I have tried to research my questions here and on the net but I'm coming up short.

Also, I picked up some sierra 125gr jhp to load. With the working oal for my P-938 there is about half the bearing surface outside the case, manual says oal should be 1.060, I have a couple dummys made up at 1.125 which is the working oal for my 938.
It appears that they plunk but look like I am not seating deep enough to my eyes and I also worry that I'm going to have to compress the charge if I should seat them the manual listed oal.

Sorry to ask so many questions, I've been reading my manuals for the last two weeks trying to absorb it all and find the answers to all my questions but these have me stuck:o

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ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2013, 02:04 AM
Yes, plated bullets require different load data than jacketed bullets. Most plated bullets should be loaded with lead bullet data or starting to middle jacketed data.

When you don't have load data for a bullet weight you can safely use the data from "heavier' bullets as long as they are made from similar materials and they have a similar profile.

manual says oal should be 1.060, I have a couple dummys made up at 1.125 which is the working oal for my 938.
NO, the data is telling you what OAL they used when developing the load data. Unless you use the same exact brass, trimmed to the same exact length and use the same exact bullet the OAL listed in the manual is useless to you. The way you loaded them is correct, use the plunk test and the bullets ojive to guide your OAL.

It seems you knew more than you thought, no??? Well done!
BTW, compressing the powder isn't always a bad thing...

1TwistedGimp
December 8, 2013, 03:35 AM
Thank you ArchAngelCD,

I appreciate your response, its because of you guys here and the manuals I've read so far that I have any inkling of what I'm doing...

For clarity though, when I posted earlier I used the phrase "brass coated" (its late and I was rushing). What I meant to convey is these remington .40 bullets are brass jacketed not plated.
At some point in my search of the net I ran across a post that said the brass jacketed bullets are different than a regular copper jacketed and should have a different charge due to having more friction...

I don't believe everything I read on the net but thought I should ask if there's a difference just to avoid a careless mistake. My sense is they should be fine to load with copper jacketed data but again I'm still pretty much a noob with only a couple months experience (most of that being research and reading manuals) with 9mm 115gr rn plated and jacketed :o.

Good to know I'm thinking in the right direction on the .380 charge and oal with the 9mm 125gr sierra jhps. Maybe all this reading is actually sinking in:scrutiny:

Another question I have is: Can I reduce more than 10% off max charge for loads like 15%-20% to have a wider range between min and max charge or is that just inviting a squib?

I don't own a micro .380, the only .380 I have is a CZ 83 and is the wifes favorite range gun. I'm not sure i'd bother reloading for .380 if she didn't like it so much.

rfwobbly
December 8, 2013, 07:01 AM
Some thoughts on reloading....

► In reloading, bullets usually fall into one of 3 categories: jacketed, plated, or lead. Within each of those are sub-categories to be sure, but for the purposes of reloading we only care about those main 3. So if you have load data for "jacketed 100grn" it really doesn't matter if the bullet you have is brass or copper jacketed, or RN or HP.... as long as you work up from the "starting load" the data will be close enough to start out.

► When using plated bullets, be sure and read the manufacturer's recommendations for loading. Some manufacturers recommend using jacketed data, some recommend using the lead data. The difference is in the plating thickness, that's what determines which data you use.

► Each powder is different in its load requirement. If you do not have the load data for say '4756 in 100grn jacketed', then you can use the data from the next heavier bullet, say '4756 in 115grn jacketed'. However, in all cases, the BEST thing to do is call the powder company customer service number and ask. Just because they don't print the data doesn't mean they don't have the data. Often times they simply don't print the data because that's considered a "less than optimal" powder for that weight bullet. And it doesn't mean it won't work pretty good, it simply means that in most common uses that you might get better results with a sightly different powder.

► The Max OAL is set by SAAMI and may be moderated to a shorter length by the bullet-to-barrel fit. The Min OAL is set by the load recipe. So if your load recipe is telling you an OAL of 1.060" for a 9mm load, they are in NO WAY SUGGESTING that's some kind of perfect OAL. No sir, they are simply reporting that's what they tested at. It's up to the reloader to find the right OAL that feeds in his/her gun. The test lab can't possibly know what feeds best in your gun, especially because their lab gun is a single-shot chunk of steel bolted to a table top. Like this...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/KwQjZGYCwsM_-Z6yuR-FMDKxV6TB_4Gr-vA1fXxYujs=w319-h222-p-no

► Hopefully, the chosen OAL will be longer than the recipe, which increases your safety because it lowers chamber pressure. In your example the recipe may have stated 1.060" and you used 1.125", which is a very good move. With that recipe you can load all the way from 1.060 to 1.169" (the SAAMI max for 9mm). Everything we do in reloading revolves around moderating chamber pressure. We ALWAYS want to err toward safety.

► Can you reduce more than 10%? With most powders you can, that's why I prefer a manual with a load range rather than simply the max and you take off 10% to get the "starting load". However, some powders become "position sensitive" at low loads. That is, the shell is so large with respect to the amount of powder that how the cartridge shoots can depend on whether the powder is at the bullet end or the primer end of the case! Some other powders simply become cantankerous at very low load volumes. Again, you are always best to call the customer service dept at the powder manufacturer. Same thing applies to "compressed loads", where there is an over abundance of powder in the case. Some powders get upset, some don't. You're always safer to call the powder manufacturer and ask.


Additional thoughts on loading for women/ novice shooters....

► Women often prefer the 380 to larger guns because of the mild recoil. But most 380's offer a very small grip area and no recoil-absorbing weight. I point this out because the larger grip area disperses the recoil impact over a larger area of the hand which also increases user comfort. Gun weight also counters the effect of recoil. By reducing the recoil spring weight in a 9mm, you can effectively teach the larger-grip and slightly heavier gun to shoot much lower loads (loads equivalent to the 380) in the larger 9mm. Wolf Spring can supply such springs for almost any common 9mm.

Hope this helps! ;)

45lcshooter
December 8, 2013, 07:57 AM
"First question is: Do I load differently for brass jacketed? These were all I could find so would like to use them. I only have 100 of em and just to learn loading for .40."

Some manufactures will say use only lead data or only jacketed data. But remember, a jacketed bullet goes into the case with the jacketing. A plated bullet has thinner plating on it rather than a jacketed bullet. But there is still something there that is not lead, so I always use the jacketed load data.



"Second question: I have data for .380 for the powder I have (IMR SR 4756) but not for the 95gr bullet.
Listed are: max load of 3.6gr 4756 for a 90gr fmj rn
Max load of 3.5gr 4756 for a 100gr fmj rn"


then to me looks like your max load is 3.55gr. Since your bullet falls between other 2 bullets and they are at the approximate same grain, use that data. 5grain in bullet weight is noting for 3.6 and 3.5 powder grain, to worry me. If the powder or bullet is way off(use common sense, not less then a grain off) then use your 10% rule.

That load you have listed if that came out of a manual, shoot it and have fun with your 95gr bullet

1TwistedGimp
December 8, 2013, 01:11 PM
Thanks for responding guys!

Everything suggested mirrors my manuals and is very good advice for a noob.
I thought id get a second opinion before I continued on just to be safe.
The "recipe" for the loads in .380 come straight from IMR's "basic reloading manual" which is the same on their website, I just find little things confusing here and there in this hobby.

rfwobbly
Wife loves that cz, so much so that she now considers it hers and I rarely even get the opportunity to use it at the range :(. She is very accurate with it which is why she likes it. Surprisingly, she is also very comfortable shooting my .40 and her 9mm and seems to have little to no fear of recoil unlike most girls :D.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2013, 11:26 PM
Another question I have is: Can I reduce more than 10% off max charge for loads like 15%-20% to have a wider range between min and max charge or is that just inviting a squib?
There are exceptions to every rule but for the most part the 10% rule for min-max charge weights should be followed. One reason is usually simple, if your charge weight is too light the ammo just won't cycle the pistol. (usually)

The powder companies invest a lot of time and money developing load data. If they list only the Max charge weight you really should only reduce that charge by 10% to find the starting charge weight. Notice I said starting charge weight, not min. The starting charge weight may or may not be the same as the Min charge weight but in any case it's where you should start.

If the Max charge is listed as 5.0gr the starting charge weight should be 4.5gr. If you powder measure won't do 4.5gr exactly and you're closer to 4.4gr (-12%) it's not going to be dangerous or a big deal. I would not however drop the charge by 20% to 4.0gr...

I know those numbers don't look like a big difference because the charge weight is only 5.0gr but in rifles with much larger charges the numbers become eye-opening. If your Max charge weight is 69.0gr the starting charge would be 62.1gr but a 20% reduction would be a charge of 55.2gr. That's almost a 14gr spread which is very noticeable.

MrMarty51
December 8, 2013, 11:46 PM
Quote from RFWobbly:
The test lab can't possibly know what feeds best in your gun, especially because their lab gun is a single-shot chunk of steel bolted to a table top. Like this...
I have seen those in action, less than a mile from My house is Western Powders, the makers of Ram Shot powder.
It is quite impressive to watch them testing loads, firing many rounds and recording the data.
This thread has also answered several questions that have been running through My head.
Thank You for posting this thread.

1TwistedGimp
December 9, 2013, 09:11 AM
Thank you ArchAngel,

I'll follow the advice and keep to the 10% reduction for starting load.

MrMarty,
I'm glad this post was able to help someone other than myself as I'm a net taker of advice and have nothing really to give back to THR, well, except more questions :o.

FROGO207
December 9, 2013, 10:03 AM
^^ One day you will also be able to help others.:) We all had to start somewhere and learn how to reload. Most reloaders will pay it forward as they can I have observed.

1TwistedGimp
December 9, 2013, 12:21 PM
FROGO207,
I do hope someday that I can help in some way, untill then I just hope I don't drive you guys batty with all my newbie questions. :D

Really, I'm astounded by how willing you guys are to help all of us who are new to the hobby. Some posts must take quite awhile to write. I'm humbled by the generosity I see here!

1TG

Potatohead
December 9, 2013, 01:00 PM
.Some posts must take quite awhile to write. I'm humbled by the generosity I see here!

Well put. Me too

Walkalong
December 9, 2013, 07:03 PM
^^ One day you will also be able to help others.:) We all had to start somewhere and learn how to reload. Most reloaders will pay it forward as they can I have observed.
This is exactly right. Pass it on.

rfwobbly
December 9, 2013, 11:12 PM
A particular quote that humbles me is credited to Isaac Newton:

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."


We share the joy when we teach others. Thanks to RC Model, Walkalong and many, many others here.

1TwistedGimp
December 9, 2013, 11:46 PM
Walkalong,
I will be happy to pass it on just as soon as I am sure that I will be giving good advice, part of the doctors oath is "First, do no harm"... ;)
I'm learning, more and more everyday. I hope to gain some experience and contribute someday :).

Wobbly,
That is a great quote, and I am truly thankful you guys let me climb up on your shoulders :D.

To everyone else who takes the time to respond and in general to THR, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

1TG

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