What kind of accuracy can you really get with a 55 gr in a stock AR15??


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Rule3
December 8, 2013, 04:16 PM
Mil Spec AR 15, 16 " barrel. 1:8 twist

Stock S&W MP, not a match grade anything

55 gr FMJ BT w/c, LC brass trimmed to length, seated to the cannelure center.

AA 2230 powder with 23.0, 24.0 and 25.0 grains tested I also had been using IMR powders but can not believe it's the powder

Shot from a V shape sand bag rest Sighted in and shot at 50 yds.

Have been using Hornady bullets but found a stash of a bag of Winchester bulk bullets and used them. They look almost the same but are they really?

I have a Burris 3.5-10 scope on this rifle and can not seem to get decent groups, more of patterns

I am used to shooting my Savage Heavy barrel bolt Varmint and one hole accuracy. Really do not expect the same accuracy but better than 3-4 inch groups.

A 55 gr bullets seems light to me for a 1:8 twist but I have a bunch of them. I can try some 62 gr bullets but would like to get these to work.

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osteodoc08
December 8, 2013, 04:27 PM
3-4" at 50 yds?! Ouch.

Make sure everything is tight with scope set up.

Clean well to make sure no copper fouling.

Try another bullet. I suggest heavier.

Keep at it.

Weber
December 8, 2013, 04:30 PM
What type of bullets?

This is my first set of reloads out of an ar at 100 yards, 5 shot group, 55gr sp 1:9 16" barrel.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm198/WeberSteve/null_zps1affa009.jpg

And here is factory 55gr fmj Remington umc.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm198/WeberSteve/null_zps1d37c539.jpg

W.E.G.
December 8, 2013, 04:32 PM
Not all 55 gr bullets are created equal.
The right load, out of a good barrel, will shoot a quality 55 grain bullet easily sub-MOA.

55-grain-FMJ's not so much.

rcmodel
December 8, 2013, 04:45 PM
55 gr FMJ BT w/c,Those are the least accurate bullets made by anyone, anywhere.

Try something with the jacket hole in the nose, not in the base.

HP Match, or Plastic Tip varmint bullets will give you all the accuracy the rifle is capable of.

Here is my Colt carbine shooting the exact same load.
Except one group is Win 55 FMJ-BT, and the other is 55 Nosler Ballistic-Tip.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/EoTecGroup.jpg

rc

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 05:04 PM
^^^
Yep, that looks like my target (the bad groups):uhoh:

I am gonna borrow another similar rifle and see how it does with my loads.

I have several factory loads that I can try but I want to blame the gun.;)

cfullgraf
December 8, 2013, 05:18 PM
A 55 gr bullets seems light to me for a 1:8 twist but I have a bunch of them. I can try some 62 gr bullets but would like to get these to work.

55 grain bullets should do just fine in a 1-8 twist barrel.

With 55 grain VMAX or Blitzking bullets I get 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 100 yards with a 20 inch, service rifle profile barrel with a 1-7 twist.

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 05:34 PM
55 grain bullets should do just fine in a 1-8 twist barrel.

With 55 grain VMAX or Blitzking bullets I get 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 100 yards with a 20 inch, service rifle profile barrel with a 1-7 twist.

That raise's the point RC made as to the bullets I have are not as accurate as say the ones you are using.
I can only go by the listed BC of bullets as I have not shot enough of them out of this rifle. I have some heavier "match" bullets that I use in the bolt action so I still need to blast these away.

steve4102
December 8, 2013, 05:48 PM
As already stated FMJ bullets are not known for accuracy, but some are better than others. The Hornady 55gr FMJ should do better than 4 inches the cheaper ones, not so much.

What brand of FMJ are you using?

Walkalong
December 8, 2013, 05:55 PM
Agreed, there are 55 Gr FMJs that can do better than 4" at 100 yards.

But Webers pics show the normal results between a FMJ and a HP or SP bullet. One can shoot very well, and one, well, not so much.

Good enough for cheap plinking? Sure thing.

What brand 55 Gr FMJs?

And yea, it isn't the twist rate.

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 08:02 PM
I only shoot my ammo.Which was the Hornady bullets until I loaded a few hundred with the Winchester bullets.

I do have some Win White box 55 gr, PMC Bronze 55 gr
Federal 62 gr,
Some DRS re-manufactured 55 gr. (Hornady bullets)

Also have some Winchester "hunting" ammo in I think 65 grain .

hentown
December 8, 2013, 08:09 PM
I found, several years ago, that bulk Remington and Winchester 55gr fmj bullets are just about worthless. The Hornady bulk bullets are much better. Also like IMI, but have a hard time finding them.

1/8 twist is fine for 55gr bullets.

BoilerUP
December 8, 2013, 08:12 PM
I have an 18" 1:8 BHW barrel on my precision AR. 77gr Noslers with Varget or 8208XBR are easily sub-MOA with some groups in the 0.5-0.75 MOA range.

With 55gr Hornady FMJBT the best it would do is 2MOA - I get that with UMC 55gr factory ammo.

I have no doubt if I used 52 Amax/HPBT/SMK or 55 Amax/Nosler BT the rifle would be back to sub-MOA accuracy.

Walkalong
December 8, 2013, 08:33 PM
and Winchester 55gr fmj bullets are just about worthlessThey sure aren't consistent, from cannelure location, to weight, to shape, .....

At first I just figured it was my Mini 14, but after shooting them in an AR, I decided they were just not very good bullets, even for FMJ.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=120702&stc=1&d=1273145417

bds
December 8, 2013, 08:41 PM
Make sure everything is tight with scope set up.
+1. I had a similar experience with a batch of .308 Hornady bullets and H4895. 5 round shot groups were erratic and wandered around the target. After pulling some hair out of my head, I realized scope mount hex bolts were not tight. After I tightened the bolts, shot groups got tight and stayed where I put the cross-hair. :banghead:

Since then, I make sure I always have "known accurate loads" with me in the range bag when I am doing load development with a new rifle bullet/powder. If I have any concerns to accuracy, before I make any adjustments to the scope, I will shoot 5 rounds with the "known accurate loads" to verify accuracy of rifle/scope.

For .223, I keep a blue box of Black Hills ammo or my most accurate reloads as my "known accurate" loads.


3-4" at 50 yds?! Ouch.
+1. Something is not right.

docsleepy
December 8, 2013, 09:28 PM
Good bullets are a must. Try some sierra's. Lose the cannelure -- that hurts big time. At 100 yards, should easily be in the 1 - 1.25" 5 shot group, I can get that with my M&P15, and I use 65 grain hunting bullets, which won't be quite as accurate as HPBT's will be.

PapaG
December 8, 2013, 09:48 PM
Bushmaster Vietnam Nam style...solid stock, round forend, carry handle. 4-12X scope. LC match brass, sized and trimmed. 25 grains Varget. WW primer. 55 Sierra SP.
Consecutive groups...virgin gun, 2". Second group, 1.5". Third.....3/4", fourth, 5/8". Next two...3/4 and 1". Eyes were getting tired. One year later, three groups all 1" or under.
Never had a factory gun ever come close, that quick. Been at this shooting and loading thing since '56.

Rule3
December 8, 2013, 09:53 PM
They sure aren't consistent, from cannelure location, to weight, to shape, .....

At first I just figured it was my Mini 14, but after shooting them in an AR, I decided they were just not very good bullets, even for FMJ.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=120702&stc=1&d=1273145417


Well you have given me some hope.:) Maybe it is just the damn bullets.

I was getting really miffed as I changed 2 variables at the same time. The bullet and the powder. Went from the Hornadys to the Winchester in a bag and H322 to the AA 2230. So I now loaded some Hornadys with the same AA2230 load to see if there is any change due to the bullet.

243winxb
December 8, 2013, 10:21 PM
4" @ 50 yds. It ain't the bullets.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2013, 11:58 PM
All bullets are not created equal for sure.

I have found the bullets that shoot best in my rifle are 55gr Sierra GameKing HPBT #1390. The Sierra #1355 FMJBT GameKing is also a good and accurate bullet too.

I'm sure there are plenty of accurate .224" bullets out there but since I found those 2 I stopped looking.

steve4102
December 9, 2013, 03:48 AM
Shot from a V shape sand bag rest Sighted in and shot at 50 yds.

Is your Handguard free floated?

silicosys4
December 9, 2013, 05:00 AM
I have loaded some of the Hornady 55 gr. fmj's for accuracy and gotten some strange groups. 2" to 2.5" was the norm, but usually with 5 or 6 clustered together under an inch...it was frustrating, getting a taste of great accuracy, but I could never pull a consistent 10 shot group out of them no matter how long I waited between shots.

Cherokee
December 9, 2013, 10:38 AM
Hornady 55 FMJ should give you 1-2" groups at 100 yd with out any problem, sometime better. Their 55 JSP is the most accurate of the 55 gr bullets I have shot in 1-10, 1-9 and 1-8 twist barrels. Winchester FMJ are the worst I've ever used.

stavman11
December 9, 2013, 12:08 PM
Rule3

I have never had much luck with any FMJ Bullets in my AR's:banghead:

I get a similar group with the Hornady FMJ-BT I have... never can get em ta group very good.... Z-max V-Max and HP's are all Tac Drivers...I just use the FMJ in my short range AR for Plinking

Its not yer Gun... its the Bullets:cool:

Tim the student
December 9, 2013, 04:34 PM
I can get about 1.5 MOA groups out of a 1:8 RRA varmint gun with Hornady 55g FMJs. Sometimes more, sometimes less. These are about the best shooting "blasting" bullet I've found.

You will (should) have much tighter groups than what you have now with a better bullet, such as a 50 or 55g V-max.

Laphroaig
December 9, 2013, 05:35 PM
+1 on the 55 Vmax. More than a few years ago I had great results from bulk Rem 55 fmj's, both handloads and loaded ammo. Rifle was a 1:8 Armalite Golden Eagle.

Laphroaig

Rule3
December 9, 2013, 05:47 PM
Update FWIW.

Went to the range ready to throw the whole rifle and scope in the lake! Give it to the Gators! I brought factory ammo from Winchester White Box, PMC Armscor and DRS remanufactured (but they use the Hornady bullet)

It turns out it is those crummy Winchester bullets. I loaded some of those and some Hornadys with the same brass (LC) and the same Powder AA 2230

Shot 5 rounds each, several times. Collected brass in between. It started getting hot, feels like summer here so I packed it in after 2 hours.

The Hornadys grouped at1 to 1-1/2. The Winchesters 2" with some fliers. Tested some factory ammo Win White Box was all over 2+ inches, PMC the same. Armscor did well at 1to 1-1/2.

The DRS re manufactured ammo which used the Hornady bullet was right in there with 1 to 1- 1/2 groups

The moral of the story is never change two things at the same time (bullets and powder) I saved enough ammo to test again in another rifle to verify.

I did not adjust the scope at all and just let them group were they would. Shooting at the Caldwell Orange Peel 4" targets 4 targets to a sheet. Just trying to keep them in that 4" circle.

I repeated the Hornady VS Winchester bullets several times and with several powder charges. The Hornady did better every time.

Next trip I am bring the longer barrel bolt action any maybe I can better results from that rifle to use up the Winchesters.

osteodoc08
December 9, 2013, 06:52 PM
1.5-2" at 100yds is about what you should expect out of that rifle.

Glad you were able to sort things out

Rule3
December 9, 2013, 08:13 PM
1.5-2" at 100yds is about what you should expect out of that rifle.

Glad you were able to sort things out

Thanks. It was much better today. but I am not sure it's totally "sorted" out

I shot a few Federal Mill Soec 62 gr ammo and was not real happy with that but that may be just a scope adjustment as it was high and got mixed in with another group.

Guess this is why I prefer handguns:D

Walkalong
December 9, 2013, 09:01 PM
If you want better groups, buy better bullets. Period. ;)

blarby
December 9, 2013, 10:06 PM
What kind of accuracy can you really get with a 55 gr in a stock AR15??


Lemme rephrase that.


What kind of accuracy do you need with a 55 gr in a stock AR15??



4" is still all kinds of dead- but I know you can do better than that.

Have you checked the nut behind the grip, too ?

ITs alignment can really shape up your groups quite a bit.

Not all guns are born "shooters". But if thats all you had, a heavier bullet would probably shave an inch with the above advice, and a little lane time.

There is only so much dead. Not every rifle is a snipomatic 3000. A stock AR shooting 55 gr pills is not the first thing that comes to mind, either.

Rule3
December 9, 2013, 10:23 PM
If you want better groups, buy better bullets. Period. ;)

When these 2,000 are gone I will:D If I was shooting a steel gong, these would be just fine. As I mentioned, these bullets shoot fine in my Savage M 12 VLP DPM

I have match grade bullets for my 308 bolt action, but it also has a match trigger, match stock and optics that cost 3 times the rifle.;)

redclay
December 10, 2013, 05:28 PM
Seems you are getting a lot of good advice. I don't shoot FMJ's it is a waste of good powder. I use Hornady's 55 SP for plinking and varmint control. Barnes TSX for killing bigger stuff. I can get 1"-1 1/2" groups out of my Mini 14 with the barnes 62 grain. Yes out of a mini. Nobody at my club could believe it , until they saw it for their selves.

Greg Mercurio
December 11, 2013, 06:47 PM
YMMV. Scoped AR, built from components. 16" Heavy Barrel Del-Ton upper. Handloads. 10 rounds from sandbags, 100 yards. I have 3 of these homebuilts, and they all do this kind of work.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z414/Greg_Mercurio/Group2.jpg (http://s1188.photobucket.com/user/Greg_Mercurio/media/Group2.jpg.html)

Rule3
December 11, 2013, 08:42 PM
^^^^^
Not a "stock" Mil Spec AR, different better barrel, what trigger, what bullets??

So Apples to Oranges:)

kwg020
December 11, 2013, 09:56 PM
When I want to check variables I use Hornady V-max's as my base line bullet. They have never failed to be accurate for me. I can't say the same for bulk FMJ's. kwg

WVRJ
December 11, 2013, 11:53 PM
4 inch groups at 50 aren't very good.Might try some different loads,especially bullets.My AR is never over 2 MOA with 55's and with 69 gr Noslers it usually is under 1 MOA.Sounds like something going on with the rifle.

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