[denfoote]

I went to the range today.
I took my new Taurus 605 out for it's third outing.
I had with me: 150 rounds 130gr UMC standard pressure .38spl
20 rounds 110gr Winchester 357MAG
After I had fired the magnum rounds and 70 of the .38spl, I went to load 5 more rounds and the cylinder came off in my hand!!! :what:
Here is a pic!!!

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/Taurus_M605.jpg

I guess it has to go back to the womb for rebirthing!!! :banghead:

[Jim Watson]

The good news: Taurus has a lifetime guarantee.
The bad news: Your gun's lifetime is obviously over.

[Ala Dan]

:( What can I say? Sorry, for the collaspe of another Tauri! :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Josey]

I haven't seen that model much. I guess the crane locking screw backed out. Do you have the parts? I have had other revolvers to do that.

[denfoote]

That Ruger SP-101 is looking good right now!!! :D

[Crownvicman]

I had a brand new S&W 64 shoot it's barrel down range after 100 rounds. Every company lets out a stinker every now and then.

[Majic]

Is it just that the retention screw loosened? If so then that's a maintenance problem as the screws should be checked by the operator. I see nothing broken showing where the revolver failed or am I missing something.

[Black Majik]

Wow... sorry to hear!

*Hands shovel* :D

[patentnonsense]

I'm sorry to hear about your Taurus - I hate it when a new treasure shows its tarnish. Still I think your story was topped by the guy who said


I had a brand new S&W 64 shoot it's barrel down range after 100 rounds.


Making the ultimate snubbie!

Well that's ONE way to avoid forcing cone misalignment!!

Gee, I thought it was DAN Wesson that had the removable barrels!!!

[BigG]

Hey I keep hearing their quality is at an all time high. :rolleyes:

[Tamara]

It looks to me as though the owner did not check his firearm for proper tension on all the screws, and now wishes to blame it on the gun. ;)

[gvass]

"It looks to me as though the owner did not check his firearm for proper tension on all the screws, and now wishes to blame it on the gun. "

Yes.
Push back that yoke and screw back the holding screw. Than shoot more, than check the screw.

Nothing is broken.

[TBeck]

Nothing looks broken and I had mine taken apart just yesterday for cleaning. Be careful with that little spring-loaded pointy thing that goes inside the crane retention screw. It's easy to lose and doesn't always seat just right. The head of the crane retention screw should be just below the frame of the gun when fully screwed down.

One of my few gripes with Taurus revolvers is the number of small springs and whatnot that constitute the cylinder and crane assembly. Compared to a S&W it's practically a Rube Goldberg machine!

[Old Fuff]

Denfoote:

Go get some fingernail polish (I won't suggest from where). Then when you reassemble your revolver put 1 small drop on the side of the screw before you screw it back. This should solve the backing-out problem, but you'll still be able to remove the screw when you need to.

Be glad you don't have an old Single Action - they shed screws all of the time.

[Ukraine Train]

Fuff,

There's a "manly" version of nail polish for that purpose, it's called Loc-Tite. Just make sure you get the medium strength stuff so you can take the screw out later.

[Jim March]

Yup - BLUE loktite. The red-label "gorilla snot" makes it a serious pain to UNscrew later.

You should also get a good set of gunsmith's screwdrivers from Brownell's, or at a minimum a set of high-end concave-ground hex-drive screwdriver bits from an American source in a LOT of sizes from a high-end hardware shop. What you use to drive those bits matters less than the bit quality, although do NOT drive them with power tools under any circumstances.

Boogered-up screws drop the value of your gun.

Once you have the screwdrivers, consider blue-loktiting *every* screw on the gun :). 'Cept for the grip screw.

[goon]

I had a S&W M-18 that the ejector would screw itself loose on. One day I went to open the gun and it wouldn't open. I was mad until I figured out that it was just a small matter. I have also seen single actions that the screws work loose on and need to be tightened up.
Still though, I would hope that a new gun would hold together a little better than that.
But if you can just put it back together and tighten a couple screws, you are good to go.

[Old Fuff]

Ukraine Train:

Yup, I know all about Loc-Tite (Red and Blue). Use the stuff all the time. But if there was a lady in the house with some nail polish it could let denfoote get his revolver back together in quick order and save a trip to the hardware store. What was needed here was one drop - not a tube of the stuff. Anyway denfoote now knows about Loc-Tite, and he can pick up a tube if he wants.

Covering all of the bases doesn't hurt ...

[Old Fuff]

Goon:

Given that his Taurus is a little gun, and that denfoote is putting .357 Magnums through it, I can see how some screws might back out if they weren't threaded in and tightened while using a light sealent. This is sometimes a problem with Colt and Ruger single action revolvers, and they aren't so little ...

[Quartus]

Nail polish = quick fix 'cause I need it NOW.

Loc-Tite = Pick it up next trip to the hardware store 'cause it's the right stuff for the job and I should have some for when the nail polish fails.


Fair enough? Okay, Goon and Fuff, kiss and make up. :D



Say, is it just me? I don't think it's asking too much for a new revolver to come from the factory with all it's screws properly tightened. I sorta think I shouldn't need to check screw torque for a few more times than 3 outings...

[Grump]

I don't think it's asking too much for a new revolver to come from the factory with all it's screws properly tightened. I sorta think I shouldn't need to check screw torque for a few more times than 3 outings...
Hear, Hear! I second that sentiment and assemble that remark into my quote bag.

Then I'd still apply blue Loc-Tite wherever reasonable to do so.

[4v50 Gary]

The only revolver that doesn't need to be checked for loose screws is the Ruger SS & GP & SP series of guns. OK, the ones with adjustable sights have up to four screws on them - two for the sights, one for the grip and a third one for the cylinder release. Being that they're solid frame though, they won't rattle apart like Taurus, S&W and Colts. All of these should be checked occasionally.

[denfoote]

It looks to me as though the owner did not check his firearm for proper tension on all the screws, and now wishes to blame it on the gun.

Did I happen to mention that this is my first revolver??
If all the parts are here and I think they are, I'll try to get it back together myself. Now that I'm relatively certain that nothing is actually broken!!
Some clear concise directions from someone who has put one of these babies together would be nice!! :D

[Quartus]

they won't rattle apart like Taurus, S&W and Colts. All of these should be checked occasionally.


Occasionally I can buy. But what's occasionally? Every other trip to the range???

[Brian Williams]

Reassembly
Pull the crane out about 3/4 of the way out from within the cylinder and hold the cylinder up to the frame and then slide the crane back in to both the cylinder and the frame. The cylinder has to be within the window of the frame. Put your screw back in.

[Tamara]

Occasionally I can buy. But what's occasionally? Every other trip to the range???

I'd think that this would be part of the simple function check you perform whenever you clean any gun that you may call on to save your hide. :uhoh:

[Marshall]

If Loc-Tite is one answer, which I believe it is, it should have come that way from Taurus. The small amount of rounds fired through that gun shouldn't have caused a quality brand new firearm to rattle loose that soon.

Personally, I would be sending it back to Tauri for a new one. Heck, they have the warranty in place for just this reason, use it. If you don't they will never know that the gun had a problem.

;)

[TBeck]

Reassembly is pretty easy. Fit the longish spring piece with the flat top into the pin on the cylinder crane that fits into the frame. Just push it in until the flat piece is snug against the pin.

Take the entire cylinder/crane assembly and slide the pin into the frame. It should click into place easily enough. Close the cylinder into the frame.

Now take that itty bitty little spring with the pointy end and fit the spring end into the crane retention screw. You should have what appears to be a two-stepped screw, with the pointy end sticking out.

This screw and spring assembly will fall apart easily, so carefully fit the assembly into the screw hole on the right side of the frame below the cylinder. With the cylinder held in place, tighten the screw until it is just below the frame.

Verify the weapon is empty, point in a safe direction, and pull the trigger a few times. It should cycle normally. Secure the screw with locktite or nail polish if desired. Done.

If you think that is excessively complicated I think you are right. Taking the cylinder apart further is even worse. I'd recommend just using gun scrubber on it.

Like the others, I really recommend a set of hollow-ground gunsmith screwdrivers. Those little screws are easy to bugger up.

[tiberius]

Personally, I would be sending it back to Tauri for a new one. Heck, they have the warranty in place for just this reason, use it. If you don't they will never know that the gun had a problem. You would mail your gun back to the manufacturer to have a screw tightened?:confused:

[Marshall]

Tiberius, I would say it sounds like more than tightening a screw.

Denfoote say's, "If all the parts are here and I think they are, I'll try to get it back together myself."

It's the mans first revolver, he is asking for help getting this thing back together properly. Would you like to shoulder any part of him having an accident next time it's shot?

I say send it back and have a new gun.




;)

[tiberius]

You won't get a new gun. That's not how warranties work. They will "fix" it. In other words they will tighten the screw. I'm not faulting Denfoote for his lack of experience....this is how we learn things....but this could happen to ANY side plate revolver. Returning it may be an option, but I'd hate to mail my gun in every time a screw needed tightening. Besides, he’s gonna have to learn how to take it apart if he wants to give it a thorough cleaning anyway. This just accelerates the learning process :)

[Quartus]

I'd think that this would be part of the simple function check you perform whenever you clean any gun that you may call on to save your hide.



I'm sorry, Tam. I'm not buying the idea that a new gun falling apart after 3 trips to the range is just something to be expected, and is the fault of the owner for not tightening the screws.


I've fired plenty of rounds through plenty of guns, and the only screw that ever came loose was a set screw on some cheap sights. If they are properly tightened in the first place they should be able to fire many, many hundreds of rounds before anybody even needs to THINK about the screws. They are machines - properly made machines don't fall apart with normal use. Yes, they have a lifespan, and yes, things break, but screws backing out shouldn't happen very often.

Well, unless you are talking about heavy equipment, like earth moving or farm equipment. The vibrations are severe and continuous. But you know what? The manufacturers know that, and build accordingly. Most of that stuff comes with Loctite already on the threads, or they use locking nuts.

If the vibrations to which a revolver is subjected in normal use are sufficient to cause the thing to fall apart after a few hundred rounds, the manufacturer ought to be shipping them with Loctite already applied, and a tube in the case with instructions on proper use.

[Majic]

One note, after you tighten the tension screw when you put it back together, check to see how easily the crane will now swing open. If it's tight then back off the screw very slightly and check again. If it swings open easily now then remove the screw, apply the Lok-Tite to the screw thread (just a small dab of the "BLUE" Lok-Tite), re-intall the screw/spring/plunger assembly, and tighten to the tension where the crane swings freely with no binding. Give if a few minutes for the Lok-Tite to set and you are ready to go.
Not all screws can be cranked down with gorilla strength. This may be the case with your revolver and it would be a waste of time sending it back to the factory to only receive it back and the same thing can still happen. It's just like any mechanical device and you should learn the proper maintenance. As this is your first revolver just keep asking questions and we can keep it up and runing for you.

[caz223]

Back in '93, I bought a short-barrelled ruger blackhawk in .41, and every screw that gun had was loose when I bought it, including the red dot and the mounts.
The previous owner said that he could never hit anything with it.
I got a sweet deal on it, and loctited all the screws with loc-tite.
Problem solved, accuracy was great.
Fast forward to '98 or '99.
I was shooting the gun and the base pin popped forward enough to cause cylinder binding.
D'oh, I forgot to loc-tite the base pin detent spring and mating bolt/nut.
A trip to the gunsmith for a few parts, and I was back in business.
But not before I loc-tited the new one in place.
Short barrelled magnum revolvers need their screws loc-tited, if it wasn't done at the factory.
Why check them every trip to the range when you can loc-tite 'em once and be done with it?

I also had an old skool S&W 627 do the same trick as yours, except the gun bound up and just wouldn't open at the range.
Then it wouldn't close.
I took it home to clean it, figuring some dirt was under the ejector star, took it apart, and it fell in 3 peices!!!
I turned it over and the screw just over the trigger fell out.
Interesting.
Not to be confused with cool, for instance.
Anyway, I put it together, and it sufferred no ill effects from that day.
The star still unscrews, and I haven't figured out whether I want to loctite the star or not, but it works fine.

[Marshall]

Denfoote, I am sure that with this boards knowledgeable people you can get it back together. I hate assume it was just a loose screw. Was it just that there was no Loc-tite? Is the gun out of time? Did it just simply rattle loose or, was there a reason that the gun did this other than that?

It's your gun so please do your pleasure but, I still suggest sending it back in the pieces it's in.

Good luck in whatever you decide. ;)

[Dain Bramage]

I had a range-rental Taurus model 85 start to do this on me. The range guy loctited it back together.

After 20 years of shooting S&W and Colt revolvers, that was the first time it had ever happened to me. I think we should go easy on Denfoote. There's just something about those Taurii.

I used to be a Taurus fan because of all their inovative models. After a few rentals and info on various boards, I'm rethinking that position. My money is too hard-earned to waste on junk. And this is from a hard-core commie surplus gun fan.

[Tamara]

My no-name, lo-bujt 1987-vintage 3" 629-1 would back its cylinder release screw out to the point of being finger-loose in one good 50-100 round range session. I made a point to give it a good torqueing and keep an eye on it.

High horsepower-to-weight ratio revolvers subject those tiny screws to some pretty serious shocks...

[Quartus]

I know, Tam. Ever see the vibrations of a firearm discharge on an ocilloscope? There's a lot of vibration there.

But they should be built to take that and keep on ticking. Many do. I wouldn't put up with one that fell apart so easily.

Yes, I agree you should check your weapons, but you shouldn't have to do it every few dozen rounds. Or even every few hundred.

[Andrew Wyatt]

It's a simple solution; tighten the screw.


Whenever i clean my 1911, or my 37, I make sure all the screws are tight.

It's not that hard.

[Litlman]

Does the Taurus manual suggest checking the screws every couple hundred rounds and slapping lock-tite on it if needed? I have never had this happen to me or anyone that I know. I think that I would be pissed. Maybe I need to shoot more. Denfoote good luck with it. Give Taurus a call and see what they suggest.

[Tamara]

"Depending on the design, the most important screw is the one that holds the cylinder in place. Different makes of revolvers secure the cylinder in different ways, but any way is critical and you need to keep an eye on it."

-quote from Ken Jorgensen of Sturm, Ruger Inc. in the article "Top Ten Cleaning Blunders" on pp. 70-71 of the May/June '04 issue of American Handgunner.


;)

[WonderNine]

Did I happen to mention that this is my first revolver??
If all the parts are here and I think they are, I'll try to get it back together myself.

A Taurus was also my first revolver (if you don't count the Ruger Single Six) and I was not impressed with it either. Damn thing developed a minor timing problem on at least one cylinder and was the loudest gun in the world (the porting didn't help).

Single action trigger was not bad, double action was like a Ruger SP-101, heavy but smooth and didn't stack.....the accuracy was passable to poor at 20 yards. A hundred rounds of 210gr. .41 mags out of a titanium snubnose without hearing protection was just........not as fun as it seemed it would be at the time I bought it........;)

[sm]

< Preacher ain't around is he>

I bought a Model 10 once that had a screw missing...the front one...yeah "that one". Fella did not want to hear any suggestions the gun store fella made. Actually I think the fella was rationalizing a new tape deck to impress his girlfriend.

I follow this fella outside, cute gal in a Barracuda...I walk back in with the gun,original box and papers...my gun buddy tosses me "that screw".

C note for a gun. Bought lunch for my gun store buddies, took care of the screw, a going through[clean , lube, smooth trigger a bit]. I bought a case of beer for $6 after closing...offset the ammo we shot using the indoor range and what ammo followed me home. I miss the old days and what a C note would get. Heck what $6 would get. I'm talking Budwieser...Carling black label was $3.99 a case.

[Majic]

Wondernine you bought for your first centerfire revolver a ported, fly weight, big bore magnum and fired full powered loads then wasn't impressed with the accuracy? Sounds like you were pushing the learning curve there. With no hearing protetion :rolleyes: you were probably flinching from the pain.

Damn thing developed a minor timing problem on at least one cylinder
You mean your Taurus had more than one? :neener:

[stellarpod]

TAURUS LIFETIME WARRANTY

In my experience, "lifetime" refers to the amount of time it takes for Taurus to make good on their warranty and return the gun to you.

stellarpod

[denfoote]

Marshall,

No, the gun fired in perfect time right up until the crane fell out into my hand when I went to reload!!

I'm gunna put it back together Friday. I don't have time to do it until then because of my work schedule. If all goes well, I'll test fire it Saturday. I already have some Winchester 125gr .38spl +P ready to make the trip down range. In the meantime, my lovely wife dug out her long dormant (pre-marrage) first generation M85UL for me to use!!
Wives are wonderful!! :D

PS, the first thing I did was to check that durn screw!! ;)
It was tight!! :scrutiny:

[WonderNine]

Wondernine you bought for your first centerfire revolver a ported, fly weight, big bore magnum and fired full powered loads then wasn't impressed with the accuracy? Sounds like you were pushing the learning curve there. With no hearing protetion you were probably flinching from the pain.

Hehe, only went without hearing protection the first time I took it out. Never again! LoL.

No, I shot the gun quite a bit, from a benchrest as well. It never had any type of decent accuracy so to speak.

I'm still sort of interested in one of their titanium 9mm revolvers.....but with the Kahr MK9's out there, why bother?

[Jim K]

Hi, Crownvicman,

I sure would like to hear more about that S&W Model 64 (stainless version of the Model 10) that shot its barrel down range every 100 rounds. I am puzzled about how that would happen with a barrel that screws into the frame. Did it unscrew or were the threads stripped? How was the barrel replaced the first time? Why was the barrel reinstalled rather than returning the gun to the factory?

I have heard of that happening with some automatic pistols when the barrel lock is not installed or not engaged, but never heard of it with a revolver.

Jim

[BigG]

My impression is the people ragging on the guy for not checking the screws for tightness is a little much. I shot plenty of ACTUAL S&Ws and never had a screw back out. Of course, I know I don't have the experience of a lot of you old greybeards (and grayladies :uhoh: ) :D

[denfoote]

It's been cleaned and it's going back together now!!
I'll let you all know how it goes!!

OK, it's back together!! :D

Test tomorrow!! ;)

[Andrew Wyatt]

If it "breaks" again, just bury it in the desert.

[Tamara]

I shot plenty of ACTUAL S&Ws and never had a screw back out.

Guess my 629-1 was only a VIRTUAL S&W.

Wish I had a lot of ACTUAL experience with S&W revolvers, only having experience with one or two, myself. :uhoh:

[Highland Ranger]

Not for nothing (as we say in the Garden State) but a few hundred rounds and a screw comes loose and we're going to call it operator error?

Sorry, maybe after a few thousand but after a few hundred, well I call that either poor assembly or poor engineering.

The wheels shouldn't come off any gun after a few hundred rounds.

[Tamara]

"It's an imperfect world; screws fall out." -John Bender, The Breakfast Club. ;)

[sm]

I have a 3" RB HB model 64.

I have no idea of the round count - a bunch. Never had a bbl problem. Like all the other old smiths I have,or have owned, I do remove that screw when cleaning to make it simpler for me. I do check all screws and make sure they are snug...especially after heavier loads, extended rds counts.

This is as automatic as taking a dry toothbrush and brushing under the star / extractor while out shooting. Especially a dirty loading...given enough rds downrange one will get a bind. Normal...some guns will go more rds than others is the difference.

Then again I'm the type to notice mom's tires before I get in to move it into garage, and notice a tire is low...or suspect so. Just wired that way I guess.

[BryanP]

Hey Denfoote, don't feel bad. My first gun was also a Taurus snubbie .357 - a 617S. I had the exact same thing happen to me after a couple of months of shooting it. In my case the screw disappeared. I called Taurus, they put one in the mail to me for no charge and now checking the screws is part of the basic checkout procedure for me.

I'm now up to a whopping 9 firearms - I'm in no danger of making Tamara jealous anytime soon :) - and 3 of them are Taurus revolvers that have served me well so far.

To be honest, now that I'm a tad more knowledgeable about firearms I probably wouldn't choose the 617S as my first gun again, but it's now my wife's gun. It fits her hand perfectly and she shoots it better than I do.

[denfoote]

...and it works!!!! :D

I put 130 rounds through it.

30 .38spl

50 .38spl +P

50 357MAG

Yes the screw was loose afterward, but I had not tightened it with loc-Tite. But did so as soon as I got home!!!! ;)

No misfires and the accuracy had not suffered.

[chaim]

denfoote, you have to love this board. I saw your thread at Taurus Talk first, and it didn't even occur to me that it would be something as simple as a loose screw. It should have though. Taurus makes some great guns, and I do love their stuff, but my one complaint is that the screws loosen a lot faster than on my S&Ws. I've only really noticed it with the sideplate screws before though- I guess I'd better get to checking my cylinders now.

[WonderNine]

Heh, I have not had screws fall out in any gun of mine, nor have they come loose, but I recently acquired two unissued CZ-52's so we'll see if the disorder of the universe has been increased when I shoot them both tomorrow.....

[VictorLouis]

on S&W revolvers. IMHO, not just the ones with the high horsepower-to-weight ratio, either.:)

I've found the same screw loose a time or two on my guns. The latest one with the internal, spring-loaded plungers are not the culprits so much as the older style.

Don't forget to check the cap nut on the thumblatch, either. I did, and lost a nice latch as a result.:rolleyes: