Thoughts on New USA made Winchester Pony RSC?


PDA






justindo
December 13, 2013, 09:13 PM
Hi all,

I have a friend who's interested in getting an RSC for his burgeoning gun collection. (Nothing high value, but he has a few decent firearms.) He wants to spend around $1,000 and I suggested the new USA made Winchester Pony RSC. I've seen the 19 in person and the quality seems good for the price, especially since it's made in the USA. They're only 12 ga. (both door and body I think), but they seem a nicer than most of the Chinese stuff in the around $1,000 price range, although the imported AMSEC stuff seems pretty good too.

Are there any alternatives that you would recommend in this price range? Thanks in advance.

If you enjoyed reading about "Thoughts on New USA made Winchester Pony RSC?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
a1abdj
December 13, 2013, 10:15 PM
As much as I hate to say it......

A $1,000 Asian safe is usually a better product than a $1,000 US made safe.

Simson
December 14, 2013, 03:26 PM
As much as I hate to say it......

A $1,000 Asian safe is usually a better product than a $1,000 US made safe.

Well I guess if you don't mind the smell of sulfur then maybe you're right.

a1abdj
December 14, 2013, 07:22 PM
Safes are supposed to protect assets from fire and theft. I'm not as worried about the smells, paint jobs, name painted on the door, color of the interior, type of fabric as I am the steel, welding, lock, boltwork, etc.

I have no problem when somebody wants to support a US made product for the sake of keeping their money in the US. But in the $1,000 dollar range, you'll be giving up security to make your point.

MarshallDodge
December 14, 2013, 07:27 PM
The Winchester is probably made by Liberty, and they make good stuff.

rcmodel
December 14, 2013, 11:59 PM
Well I guess if you don't mind the smell of sulfur then maybe you're right. You might not have noticed after 14 posts.

But a1abdj IS a safe dealer, and most likely knows what he is taking about.
http://www.zykansafe.com/

I have not seen much foolishness posted by him concerning gun safes yet.

But I don't know what 'the smell of sulfur' concerning a gun safe means either??

rc

Rule3
December 15, 2013, 12:24 AM
Chinese Drywall

eastbank
December 15, 2013, 07:53 AM
maybe sodered and not welded, the chinese are good with lead,just ask the toy makers. eastbank.

a1abdj
December 15, 2013, 12:12 PM
Do you guys want me to post some photos of "quality American" safe construction?

MarshallDodge
December 15, 2013, 12:53 PM
Sure!

a1abdj
December 15, 2013, 01:40 PM
Here's a door gap big enough to stick your finger through:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/doorgap3-1.jpg

Here's a gap in the insulation big enough to stick your finger through:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/insulationgap3.jpg

Here's a direct drive lock that is so out of line that only two of the three numbers are functioning to secure the safe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/directdrivefailure_zps7dff5d68.jpg

Here's a mechanical lock that is so out of line that it won't even lock the safe at all:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/mechanicalinstallationfailure_zps8f288849.jpg



I have plenty more. In addition to these being US made safes, there's one other thing in common. Care to guess?

Simson
December 15, 2013, 08:34 PM
I have plenty more. In addition to these being US made safes, there's one other thing in common. Care to guess?

Okay I'll guess, made by Liberty?

In their defense, the space between the drywall was very likely intended that way. Their drywall is cut with a CNC waterjet and panels are precisely made to interlock into the interior of their safes. Way the gap? maybe to allow for more efficient fire protection (I.e., to let steam escape for inner layers of drywall.)

The gap in the door is definitely huge but ... we aren't talking Graffunder or even Sturdy Safe for that matter (both American made safes). If you are looking for tight tolerances you won't find them in a $1000 gun safe.

justindo
December 15, 2013, 08:43 PM
a1abdj knows what he's talking about. Are the pictures posted all Winchesters? Are they the new models? I must say that I wouldn't have recommended Winchester in the past, but these new models look decent for the price, at least from what I could see. They are made in Ft. Worth Texas by Granite Security and seem comparable to the lower end Liberty RSCs, but the Winchesters cost considerably less.

I may recommend the Chinese AMSEC FV or the Mexican made lower level Champion/Superior/Summit, but these are more money than my friend is wanting to spend and he is really wanting a US made product.

a1abdj
December 15, 2013, 09:01 PM
Okay I'll guess, made by Liberty?

Indeed they are. I choose them because they were mentioned in this thread, and well known (believed) to make high quality safes. These types of things are not limited to Liberty, and we see it from several other manufacturers as well.

The truth of the matter is these companies cut as many corners as possible to maintain a price point. With the exception of the photo of the direct drive lock, all of those safes cost more than $1,000.

In their defense, the space between the drywall was very likely intended that way. Their drywall is cut with a CNC waterjet and panels are precisely made to interlock into the interior of their safes. Way the gap? maybe to allow for more efficient fire protection (I.e., to let steam escape for inner layers of drywall.)

There shouldn't be a space. So here's a photo showing a $1,000 (or less) Chinese safe. Notice how the seam is not only tight and uniform, but also caulked?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/a1abdj/safeimp3.jpg

I can't tell you how many times I have seen broken gypsum board inside of these US safes because it wouldn't quite fit, and somebody kicked it (leaving behind a shoe or boot print) in order to force it into place.

$1,000 isn't going to buy you a Rolls Royce of a safe, but I haven't seen a $1,000 American safe yet that has the same build quality as a $1,000 Asian import. I don't even know if it's possible. It's really hard to do considering the costs involved. When you start spending more money, then it can be a different story.

Many of the places that sell these safes never have the door panels off so that customers can see what they're getting. Next time you're out shopping, ask them to pull the panel, and take a look at what's inside.

Simson
December 15, 2013, 09:07 PM
a1abdj knows what he's talking about. Are the pictures posted all Winchesters? Are they the new models? I must say that I wouldn't have recommended Winchester in the past, but these new models look decent for the price, at least from what I could see. They are made in Ft. Worth Texas by Granite Security and seem comparable to the lower end Liberty RSCs, but the Winchesters cost considerably less.

I may recommend the Chinese AMSEC FV or the Mexican made lower level Champion/Superior/Summit, but these are more money than my friend is wanting to spend and he is really wanting a US made product.

The Winchester safes that I'm aware of were made in China. There was a safe tech from another website who knocked the top off the safe with just a sledge hammer in less than 3 minutes just to show the body was stitch welded.

I don't work for Liberty but for around 1000 dollars you can get a Fatboy Jr which has American drywall and continuous welds on the body.

Although it is a Liberty video, it does show the difference between a safe body with a continuous welded body verses a stitch welded body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT-Jr4ZNALw

a1abdj
December 15, 2013, 09:58 PM
Winchester safes tend to be lower quality units. There are plenty of Chinese safes, that don't cost much more, that are built much better.

If you enjoyed reading about "Thoughts on New USA made Winchester Pony RSC?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!