9mm luger for deer hunting


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regnar
December 14, 2013, 03:06 PM
There are a lot of forums that reveled 'your crazy,' comments to the question:
Deer hunting with 9mm ammo?
Winchester manufactures a 9mm 147 grain with a picture of a deer on the back box cover along with a couple other uses.
Any opinions

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steveno
December 14, 2013, 03:11 PM
there are a lot of rounds that will kill a deer. whether or not they should be used is another question. first of all is it legal in your state? I don't think a 9 mm should be used for deer hunting

Trent
December 14, 2013, 03:19 PM
It'll vary state by state, obviously.

In Illinois, if you are using the appropriate firearm (single shot or revolver), AND it meets the 500 ft. lb. requirement, it would be legal.


Centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot
handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a
minimum barrel length of 4 inches.

For handguns, a bottleneck centerfire cartridge
of .30 caliber or larger with a case
length not exceeding 1.4 inches, or a
straight-walled centerfire cartridge of .30
caliber or larger, both of which must be
available as a factory load with the published
ballistic tables of the manufacturer
showing a capability of at least 500 foot
pounds of energy at the muzzle. There is
no case length limit for straight-walled cartridges.

Non-expanding, military-style full metal
jacket bullet cannot be used to harvest
white-tailed deer; only soft point or expanding
bullets (including copper/copperalloy
rounds designed for hunting) are legal
ammunition.



There are VERY FEW 9mm loads that will crack 500ft/lb, and mostly, they are lightweight rounds not particularly suited to hunting.

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php

O-neg
December 14, 2013, 03:21 PM
I wouldn't use 9mm for deer but....... I remember a thread on this board not to long ago about 9mm out penetrating 223.

I know there are some folk that use 223 for deer hunting so if a 9mm 115 grain bullet penetrates farther than a 62 to 75 grain 223, why wouldn't it work?

At close range of course, say 50 to 100 yards?

R.W.Dale
December 14, 2013, 03:32 PM
Assuming proper bullet selection a 9mm CARBINE can push the same weight bullet just as fast as a 357 magnum REVOLVER will. Making them both suitable for the same game and yes you can get 158g bullets/loads for 9mm

Now with this said a 357 mag revolver has a pretty narrow window of effectiveness on deer sized game.


I still think either is more effective than buckshot for deer.

hovercat
December 14, 2013, 03:38 PM
The word hunting covers a lot. Thick brush with your carbine, yes. Wide open West Texas plains for mule deer with your Glock? No.
More depends upon your abilities than the hardware. I can operate archery equipment but I cannot ethically hunt with it. Do you have the skills to overcome the handicap of using a less than ideal round?

gamestalker
December 14, 2013, 04:12 PM
I knew a guy back in the 80's that killed a deer with his Uzi. He must have shot that deer 8 or 9 times while on the run. I'm sure it wasn't legal, in fact I know it wasn't.

GS

hq
December 14, 2013, 04:20 PM
Well... there are a lot of things that CAN be done. A long time ago there was a gun editor in Finland who was a strong advocate of hunting moose with a .22, placing a carefully aimed shot through the eye, and records of such kills do exist. However, 9mm is a bit marginal for deer, but providing that shot placement is good and it's legal, I can't see why.

Personally, given the choice, I probably wouldn't.

06
December 14, 2013, 04:29 PM
Please do not do it. Nothing worse than wounding an animal to die slow and painfully. Put it down quickly/humanely with a properly powered round. We raised a fawn that brought home three babies for us to see. I still hunt but make sure the animal goes down quickly. Have a bud near Charleston, SC who hunted deer with a 22 for years--shot them right in the ear. Finally talked him into a proper killer.

Art Eatman
December 14, 2013, 05:12 PM
I would not use it by deliberate choice in any normal sort of hunt, but if I see Bambi very much "up close and personal", I'd be sore tempted, just for fun.

I've had does lie down under my tree stand; about eight or ten feet away. I've had does get out of bed, walk off a few steps and then stop and look--at maybe 20 yards distance.

Hard to pass up a real "gimme" shot if you have a sidearm along. :)

lobo9er
December 14, 2013, 05:36 PM
A friend put down a gut shot button buck this year with a 9mm. That's a lot different than hunting of course. As a side arm while hunting sure but I would never suggest hunting with a 9mm unless the apocalypse happened and you survived with only a 9mm to feed yourself with. Tongue in cheek of course.

Bowhunter57
December 14, 2013, 07:29 PM
regnar,
The 9mm cartridge isn't known for its' accuracy or knockdown power. I have a Smith & Wesson 9c M&P that shoots 147gr. JHP ammo in a 1" group at 20 yards. Would I use it for hunting deer, if it were legal in Ohio? No.

Aside the ballistic debate or ethics of what the shooter can do vs. what the weapon can do...I'll hunt with as much power as I can accurately handle. :) Game animals are NOT known for providing hunters with good shots or good shot angles.

I accept the challenge of hunting with a handgun. However, I want every advantage I can get my hands on, when hunting with a handgun. I know guys that have hunted with and killed wild boar with a 45acp. Obviously, it can be done, but it's not my first choice in a caliber, much less the horrible ballistics. :p

Bowhunter57

wgaynor
December 14, 2013, 07:38 PM
I'd use a 9mm on a deer without hesitancy. Sure, it won't reach as far as my .30-.30 or .30-.06, but it'll get the job done same as a .22lr will.

Takem406
December 14, 2013, 07:43 PM
Seen a few videos on YouTube of guys Glockin deer with 40's, 45's, and 10's.

sixgunner455
December 15, 2013, 03:00 AM
It's not a powerhouse nor a long range proposition, but it will certainly kill a deer. I've done it, albeit at very close range (could have whacked that doe on the rear with a stick).

lobo9er
December 15, 2013, 07:43 AM
Without hesitation? I doubt most would ever be invited back to camp if they show up with a glock 9mm for primary hunting firearm. With other options you'd show up opening day with a beretta 92? One thing to say it could work, under extraordinary lucky close range at that, than to say without hesitation i'd hunt deer with a 9mm. 22lr rifle may actually be easier to put one behind the ear than a handgun and a better option all together. Imho of course.

eastbank
December 15, 2013, 07:56 AM
the deer deserve better, a small movement in the gun or the deer could cause a slow lingering death.eastbank.

breakingcontact
December 15, 2013, 08:50 AM
Im not a hunter. The "knockdown" power comment is always a trip.

Is an arrow more ethical than a 9mm?

W.E.G.
December 15, 2013, 08:55 AM
OP comes here, and for his first post, he inquires about deer hunting with 9mm?

Troll much?

This topic came up before, and was locked by page 3.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=616448&highlight=9mm+deer

OilyPablo
December 15, 2013, 09:20 AM
I might use my Camp 9 with a HOT load for deer.

Hyrulejedi86
December 15, 2013, 09:33 AM
I can't imagine that 9mm would not work when you have to use it. If you can choose something else then I would but considering I reload 9mm it would be available in a shtf situation. I wouldn't hesitate then.

BrotherFrankie
December 15, 2013, 09:43 AM
a lil off topic..

this post brought back memories of a few dear wandering onto a hot live fire range in Ft Riley Kansas...

50 cal took them out fast... young and dumb back in the day.. but we did eat dear in the chow hall that night..

Ankeny
December 15, 2013, 10:17 AM
Is an arrow more ethical than a 9mm? Yes.

R.W.Dale
December 15, 2013, 10:36 AM
How about a patched 40 or .45 caliber round ball?

red rick
December 15, 2013, 11:19 AM
Assuming proper bullet selection a 9mm CARBINE can push the same weight bullet just as fast as a 357 magnum REVOLVER will. Making them both suitable for the same game and yes you can get 158g bullets/loads for 9mm

Now with this said a 357 mag revolver has a pretty narrow window of effectiveness on deer sized game.


I still think either is more effective than buckshot for deer.

No way, but you have to know how your shotgun patterns and at what distance. Most people don't pattern their shotguns and think you can use any brand of buckshot and what ever choke they have .

I primarily use a shotgun for deer hunting, not only because it is the law in my county, but because it is the best tool for how and where we hunt . Most deer are moving (dogs running them ) and we rarely have a opening further than 60 yards ( not that I would take a shot at 60 yards with buckshot or 9mm/357 ) .

I have never had to track a deer that I have shot with buckshot, I have never had one stay on his feet after being hit with buckshot. The majority of my shots are taken within 30 yards .

It would take a special person with a caliber larger than 357 to be more effective than buckshot at it's effective range .

jmr40
December 15, 2013, 12:47 PM
A quality 9mm bullet is far more effective than a single round of buckshot. It is about range. With good bullets, properly placed a 9mm is just fine. At least as effective as an arrow or 1 or even 2 buckshot projectiles. A 9mm at 10-15 yards is exactly the same as a 357 at 50-60 yards.

The problem is having the skills to make the shot and the discipline to limit yourself to the ranges necessary.

I wouldn't want to limit myself to those ranges and sure wouldn't deliberately chose to hunt with a 9mm. But it will do the job within its limitations. The same can be said of a 300 mag. It is just that a 300 mag has far fewer limitations.

lobo9er
December 15, 2013, 03:56 PM
A quality 9mm bullet is far more effective than a single round of buckshot. It is about range. With good bullets, properly placed a 9mm is just fine.

15 yards buck shot or 9mm? I dont want to get catty here, but seriously? I'm gonna go buckshot with my gut here and say at 9mm range, deer under the tree stand buck shot is gonna do an extreme amount more damage. How about across the room self defense situation, 9mm or buck? I'm thinking most are gonna go with buck shot if given the choice.

Also if given the choice both muzzle loader and bow would be picked by myself before even considering a 9mm Glock.

red rick
December 15, 2013, 04:14 PM
Me to , the last I checked my 00 buckshot has 15 balls and will put most of them in a 20" circle at 40 yards .

I doubt many people can make a clean kill shot with a 9mm . If you don't hit the heart , brain or spine , you most likely will not have enough blood to track .

Patocazador
December 17, 2013, 11:55 AM
Anyone who hunts deer with a 9mm Parabellum IS crazy ... or irresponsible.

sixgunner455
December 17, 2013, 03:06 PM
Anyone who hunts deer with a 9mm Parabellum IS crazy ... or irresponsible.

Or, perhaps, an extremely confident marksman who knows his weapon, its limitations, and his hunting area.

Stephen Camp, for example. (http://hipowersandhandguns.com/FieldReportDeer.htm)

Hokkmike
December 17, 2013, 03:41 PM
9MM for deer? No, not me!

Zeke/PA
December 17, 2013, 04:37 PM
Definitely NOT a good choice!

Fremmer
December 17, 2013, 08:32 PM
It beats starving, but you'd have to be real careful about it.

AKElroy
December 17, 2013, 09:18 PM
I would not use it for deer. I have a 9mm carbine that we use to spotlight coons, and they nearly always require multiple shots unless they are brained. And before we blame that on poor shot placement, the same body shot with a .30-30 always yields a DRT coon. Two of them, actually.

I've taken deer with a 9mm, but only as a put-down, behind the ear follow-up if they are still twitching a bit.

lobo9er
December 17, 2013, 10:13 PM
That article is not impressive. It borders on irresponsible on the grounds it may inspires others to try it on a much larger or much less opportune shot. Shooting a button buck 20 yards does not prove it as a venerable hunting caliber. And I know it wasn't the authors point. The question here isn't "could it work" its "should you". If starving of course, but other wise a muzzle loader from walmart costing 100 some dollars is a far more efficient hunting implement. Just my 2 cents. If its legal to do so in your hunting area its up to you to do what you think is responsible and fair to the animal.

Torian
December 18, 2013, 06:47 AM
It'll vary state by state, obviously.

In Illinois, if you are using the appropriate firearm (single shot or revolver), AND it meets the 500 ft. lb. requirement, it would be legal.




There are VERY FEW 9mm loads that will crack 500ft/lb, and mostly, they are lightweight rounds not particularly suited to hunting.

http://www.ballistics101.com/9mm.php
Out of a Carbine platform, like the Beretta Storm, should be able to crack that 500 ft pound ceiling with hot ammo no problem.

I don't think I've ever shot a handgun with 9mm ammo that's been that hot though :)

Davek1977
December 18, 2013, 07:11 AM
It borders on irresponsible on the grounds it may inspires others to try it on a much larger or much less opportune shot. I think that's a stretch. By that logic,an article that talks about someone shooting deer at 350 yards with a 7mm mag is "irresponsible" because it might inspire someone to take a 700 yard shot. The author doesn't state or even imply that longer range shots would be acceptable. He simply proved what many of us already know....that nearly any weapon...when used within its capabilities...can kill a deer under perfect conditions. He doesn't recommend hunting deer with the 9mm, nor does he in any way imply that its capable beyond the ranges he PROVED it WAS capable at. We can't post performance of anything if we automatically assume that someone reading it will grossly overestimate its effectiveness and can't help but try it out in a manner in which the author never intended. Why post about the effectiveness of the .204 Ruger on prairie dogs at 200 yards, for example, when it might inspire some idiot into shooting an elk @ 400 yards with it? Its not the author's responsibility to ensure everyone reading his work follows the laws of common sense!

lobo9er
December 18, 2013, 03:43 PM
7mm mag is a hunting a rifle used to kill deer @ 350 yards, if someone wrote an article about it (which prolly has been written a few times) it would be a hunting story not an article testing 9mm capabilities on live animals. Hey if its legal in his area than more power to him. If your up in your stand and deer wanders under and its what you gotta do so you don't spoke'em or what ever it maybe, than its your world out in the forrest hunting. No one is there to tell you don't. But if you show up to any hunting party/camp/group that I have been apart of toting only a Glock 9mm you would not be invited back and maybe asked to wait in the truck by a few guys I know. And I think that would be the case for you too with most of your hunting groups. End of it all and you are hungry sure. Packing up the truck to go hunting... Sorry, bad choice. Just my opinion, and I enjoy the conversation.

el Godfather
December 18, 2013, 03:57 PM
It depends how close you are. I would not use it beyond 25-40 yards.

R.W.Dale
December 18, 2013, 07:26 PM
192578

While this yummy morsel was killed with a .50 caliber ml @80yds the important part of this picture remains valid. That being the scale a person would be hard pressed to find a cartridge unsuitable for harvesting the deer above.

A 35cal or less chunk of lead through the vitals has been putting venison in bellies and hides on backs for CENTURIES and it's no less effective today.

Vol46
December 18, 2013, 08:15 PM
A .22 long rifle is capable of killing a deer if you are close enough & put the bullet in the right place. Should you choose one to hunt deer with? - - NO

el Godfather
December 19, 2013, 01:01 AM
I know someone who has taken a few deer with .22 hornet.

jaysouth
December 19, 2013, 02:01 AM
Several years ago I was sitting in a tree stand on a warm sunny day. I was concentrating on the 50-100 yards in front of me so hard that I did not notice a doe licking on the bottom rung of the stand's ladder. I shot her between the shoulder blades with a glock 19 loaded with Fed BPLEs. She died on the spot. Her front legs spayed and she went down on her face. After a minute she dropped in her tracks.

She dressed out at 90 pounds and made a year's worth of summer sausage.

.22 rim fire as a deer cartridge?? A generation ago, half of the deer killed in this country were killed by poachers using a .22 and a flashlight.

788Ham
December 20, 2013, 11:18 PM
If a 9 mm is all you have for deer hunting? Stay home.

lobo9er
December 21, 2013, 03:47 PM
If a 9 mm is all you have for deer hunting? Stay home.

for what an inexpensive more adequate rifle/shotgun costs that statement is pretty right on. A used shotgun can be found for less than a glock in most cases if not a new one.

351 WINCHESTER
December 21, 2013, 04:11 PM
I would much rather take a deer with a scoped .22 long rifle than any 9mm from a handgun. Deer are easy to kill with proper shot placement and the object of the game is to make a clean kill. If in doubt, don't try.

c01
December 21, 2013, 05:00 PM
Two does with 9mm out of a G19. 147 grain HSTs with no problem. Bang flop. Both less then 20 yards. Any further, that what my rifle was for.

351 WINCHESTER
December 23, 2013, 10:31 PM
You just got lucky unless you're good enough to make head shots. They both could have just as easily run off and you'd still be tracking them. You're lucky you hit them at all as they would have heard the sound before the bullet hit them and we all know how quick deer are. They can turn on a dime. I'm guessing the mv of a 147 from a g19 is south of 1000 fps.

R.W.Dale
December 23, 2013, 11:02 PM
You just got lucky unless you're good enough to make head shots. They both could have just as easily run off and you'd still be tracking them. You're lucky you hit them at all as they would have heard the sound before the bullet hit them and we all know how quick deer are. They can turn on a dime. I'm guessing the mv of a 147 from a g19 is south of 1000 fps.




It's been a long long time since I read such a misinformed post.

Leaving the 9 mm part aside I'd like to take on the notion of a deer getting out of the way of a bullet at 20yds

Assuming 950 fps the time in flight is a mere .08 of a second. That's eight one hundredths. From muzzle to 20yds. Less than that if you're actually proposing the difference in the sound and bullet arriving is crucial. In nature the fastest reactions to external stimuli are at the shortest a couple of tenths of a second.


There are lost of subsonic deer hunting rounds that weigh lay deer just fine. There may be a plethora of reasons to not recommend a 9mm to deer hunt with but the assertion that a deer will outrun the bullet is a completely nonsensical one.

savanahsdad
December 23, 2013, 11:16 PM
Im not a hunter. The "knockdown" power comment is always a trip.

Is an arrow more ethical than a 9mm?
yes , a lot more, an arrow has 3 sharp blades making a large wound channel

351 WINCHESTER
December 23, 2013, 11:23 PM
I should have been more specific, but my intent was that the deer would hear the shot before impact, it could move enough to make a good shot into a poor shot. That .08 of a second could be the difference between a wounded animal or a clean kill. I never said, nor intended to say or mislead that a deer could outrun a 9mm slug, that is utter nonsense and you are completely wrong in assuming I would ever believe such barf.

R.W.Dale
December 23, 2013, 11:35 PM
I should have been more specific, but my intent was that the deer would hear the shot before impact, it could move enough to make a good shot into a poor shot. That .08 of a second could be the difference between a wounded animal or a clean kill. .


No it won't.

The deer's brain wouldn't even have enough time to register hearing the sound much less fire the nerves to control the muscles to dodge the bullet all "matrix" style.

That's what I'm talking about.

And again the deer only has the DIFFERENCE in the sound vs the bullets time in flight to work with. Which is roughly .03 seconds or about four times less than the .12 second reaction time attributed to whitetail deer by bow hunters

Again that just the time needed to BEGIN to react to the shot and doesn't allow the time needed to generate the momentum to move far enough to create a "bad" shot.

Gun Master
December 23, 2013, 11:44 PM
My 1st reaction to seeing this thread was, is alcohol involved in the thought and/or hunting ? I have at least one gun that would qualify, but why would I even consider a 9mm with all the available options I have . Otherwise, this is only a hypothetical thread .

Art Eatman
December 24, 2013, 12:03 AM
Looks like this horse is breathing with great difficulty. :)

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