SBR engraving: barrel or receiver?


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Elkins45
December 14, 2013, 05:08 PM
So what is the advantage to engraving the required trust information on the receiver of a SBR as opposed to the barrel? The gun in question is a Colt AR, and I'm not sure I will ever have a second short upper other than the one I will put on it once I get my stamp. I understand that engraving the barrel is legal, since there is already a SN and model on the receiver.

Why couldn't you engrave the barrel, then if you ever decide on a different upper just engrave it too? Two uppers doesn't mean two stamps because the lower is the legal NFA item. I think I would rather spend the extra engraving fee if that happens rather than ugly up my nice Colt rifle.

Am I wrong?

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MErl
December 14, 2013, 07:32 PM
I thought the receiver/lower had to be the part engraved since that is the SBR registered item. Barrel is not an option.

Elkins45
December 14, 2013, 07:54 PM
479.102 How must firearms be identified?
(a) You, as a manufacturer, im- porter, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows:
(1) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch; and
(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(i) The model, if such designation has been made;
(ii) The caliber or gauge;
(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm;

Telekinesis
December 14, 2013, 08:50 PM
The only issue with engraving the barrel on an AR would be that the engraving has to be visible without removing your hand guard ("conspicuously placed" from the quoted law above). If you're planning on using a short hand guard with exposed barrel at the end you'll be ok, but if you want to have a full length hand guard that almost completely covers the barrel you'll probably want to engrave the lower.

crazy-mp
December 14, 2013, 10:09 PM
A barrel is a disposable item that has a life span in thousands of rounds. Receivers can have new parts installed and keep on going. Plus when your lower has been registered as a sbr lower you can use multiple uppers in multiple calibers.

I always sway towards the versatility side.

AlexanderA
December 15, 2013, 11:50 AM
Plus when your lower has been registered as a sbr lower you can use multiple uppers in multiple calibers.

It's true that the lower is what's registered as the SBR (by serial number). But the maker Information can be engraved on the barrel. If you want to use multiple uppers on the same SBR, just engrave your maker information on each barrel. No need for additional stamps.

I would always put the maker information, for an SBR, on the barrel. That way you keep the lower clean, for possible resale later as an ordinary Title I firearm. (There is practically no resale value for marked SBR's.)

Arizona_Mike
December 15, 2013, 01:12 PM
I often wonder about the legal meaning of "conspicous". I have several post-GCA '68 break open shotguns with the SN on the water table. Then there are the Colt revolvers with the SN on ther frame under the yoke. At least these areas are exposed during normal operation/manipulation without tools. There was a time when S&W sold their square butt Model 66 Stainless Combat Magnum with factory (not aftermarket) target grips that covered their serial number!

The lone? S&W example aside, it would seem you would be legal in a place that is exposed during normal manipulation not involvong tools. and you could probably get pretty creative on an AR15 lower (which also has a water table . . .) whereas a long free-float handguard like on a recce or dissy leaves no such option on the barrel.

Mike

crazy-mp
December 16, 2013, 02:20 AM
It's true that the lower is what's registered as the SBR (by serial number). But the maker Information can be engraved on the barrel. If you want to use multiple uppers on the same SBR, just engrave your maker information on each barrel. No need for additional stamps.

Your going to be paying more to have each barrel engraved, its cheaper to have one receiver engraved and be done. There are several companies that offer engraving in out of the way spots such as the inside of the trigger housing or front of the magazine well, other than your name/ trust name and city state there is not much real estate being lost there. You can go doen to 1/16".

I have a few NFA items you can barley see the makers info, and I have one shot gun you can read it from across the room I guess some 07's think they need a billboard on the side of a gun with their name on it.

(There is practically no resale value for marked SBR's.)

In states that allow SBR's there are markets especially if your 18, 19 or 20 years old, and want to play the NFA game. The NFA laws do not allow people under the age of 21 to buy NFA items from a dealer but they can buy from a individual as long as all requirements are met.

Arizona_Mike
December 16, 2013, 12:46 PM
You can so smaller than 1/16" for everything except the serial number.

Mike

AlexanderA
December 16, 2013, 01:35 PM
In states that allow SBR's there are markets especially if your 18, 19 or 20 years old, and want to play the NFA game. The NFA laws do not allow people under the age of 21 to buy NFA items from a dealer but they can buy from a individual as long as all requirements are met.

Then why not start with a clean lower and engrave your name on it (if you decide to go that route) rather than have somebody else's name on it? The tax -- and the wait for processing -- is the same for a "making" as for a "transfer." (Actually, for a "making," you can possess the lower as part of a Title I firearm while waiting for the stamp to be approved.) I still say the market value of a marked SBR lower is close to zero.

ScottS
December 16, 2013, 02:26 PM
Then why not start with a clean lower and engrave your name on it (if you decide to go that route) rather than have somebody else's name on it? The tax -- and the wait for processing -- is the same for a "making" as for a "transfer." (Actually, for a "making," you can possess the lower as part of a Title I firearm while waiting for the stamp to be approved.) I still say the market value of a marked SBR lower is close to zero.

As is the market value for a used, stripped lower. So, if you want to sell your SBR some day, why wouldn't you buy a stripped lower (for <$100), and replace the marked, SBR lower with that? Add a >16" barrel, and sell the now-Title 1 firearm, and the shorter barrel. Keep or destroy the marked former-SBR lower.

crazy-mp
December 17, 2013, 11:24 PM
The only NFA market that is close to zero is the market for used suppressors. Used police SBR AR's and SBS sell regularly, and they are usually around 20-30 percent cheaper than a brand new one. Some people are looking for what they think is a great deal others are just trying to save a few bucks.

I only know of one person who has bought a used suppressor and the only reason he got it was because it was a package deal when I transferred his MAC 11.

I would bet 1,000 rounds of 300 AAC Blackout that if you had a lower receiver with your name on it you would have had no trouble selling it about a year ago for what you had in it or even a little more.

Strahley
February 3, 2014, 03:53 PM
Another vote for receiver. That's the only option I will consider for myself

strambo
February 5, 2014, 01:09 PM
It's true that the lower is what's registered as the SBR (by serial number). But the maker Information can be engraved on the barrel. If you want to use multiple uppers on the same SBR, just engrave your maker information on each barrel. No need for additional stamps.

I would always put the maker information, for an SBR, on the barrel. That way you keep the lower clean, for possible resale later as an ordinary Title I firearm. (There is practically no resale value for marked SBR's.)

You can use as many different uppers as you want on an engraved lower. You just have to have possession of the configuration you submitted or submit a change to a new permanent configuration.

All this multiple engraving of a wear item like a barrel for concern over the re-sale value of a used marked stripped lower vice a used unmarked stripped lower is definitely false economy once multiple engravings and hassle factor is added in.

The stripped marked lower can still be sold as a regular firearm, it is just marked with whatever you put on it, but not an SBR if you have it removed from the registry and get rid of the short barrel/upper (which can be sold, it isn't an SBR in and of itself).

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