Statistical Food for Thought:FBI homicide data


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Sam Cade
December 16, 2013, 11:50 PM
While poking around the DOJ/FBI website I came across this bit of statistical data that may be of some interest to us down here in the NFW section.

Non-firearms weapons (including hands and feet) account for more than 20% of Justifiable Homicides for the last year of data and a (slightly higher) proximate percentage of murders.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

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hso
December 17, 2013, 07:36 AM
Every time an AWB comes up we've pointed to the Uniform Crime Report data showing that knives and hands and feet are used in more murders than all rifles, not just the "EBR". Same for state data.

No surprise that knives account for more justifiable homicides than rifles, but I am surprised it is by almost a factor of 4.

That does emphasise that the use of a knife in self defense may not be considered ideal, but it is viable as the data shows.

glistam
December 17, 2013, 02:36 PM
No surprise that knives account for more justifiable homicides than rifles, but I am surprised it is by almost a factor of 4.

Doesn't surprise me at all. Rifles are unlikely to be close at hand when away from one's home during an unanticipated attack. When in the home, the shotgun is preferred to the point of it being being an iconic American image (the archetypal awakened and aggravated homeowner in robe and slippers with his or her double-barrel in hand). Knives tend to just be close at hand due to ubiquity.

lemaymiami
December 17, 2013, 02:40 PM
In some of the baddest neighborhoods around, two-leggeds have great success killing each other with ordinary rocks, bottles, and sticks....

The bottom line for me is that our species has been slaughtering each other since before we had names (or the language needed to create names....). Some things just don't change, whether "justified" or otherwise....

By the way, the only advice my Dad ever gave me about blades was that the drawback was you had to get entirely too close.... That was pretty good advice and came from a career Corps of Engineers type that served from mid WWII all the way through two tours in VN.... I was too close on many occasions as a cop and was very lucky to never be on the receiving end of any thing sharp or pointy. I always had a blade with me "in case"..... but never needed it, thank heavens.

Sam Cade
December 17, 2013, 02:55 PM
No surprise that knives account for more justifiable homicides than rifles, but I am surprised it is by almost a factor of 4.

I look at this data and I can't help but be slightly surprised that muscle powered weapons are used with such great frequency, for good or ill.

zhyla
December 17, 2013, 08:31 PM
I look at this data and I can't help but be slightly surprised that muscle powered weapons are used with such great frequency, for good or ill.

They can have my hands when they pry them from my cold, dead hands.

hso
December 17, 2013, 09:15 PM
I can't help but be slightly surprised that muscle powered weapons are used with such great frequency, for good or ill.

Think how many EMTs have shown up at homes or clubs to find a trail of blood.

Sam Cade
December 17, 2013, 09:50 PM
Think how many EMTs have shown up at homes or clubs to find a trail of blood.

Y'know, In my relatively short career as an EMT the preponderance of purposeful acts of serious violence I've seen so far have been kitchen-knife related.


Aggravated assault broken down by weapon type and state:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-22

Murder:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

hso
December 18, 2013, 02:19 PM
All the meat wagon guys I knew said the most common bloody scenes they rolled up to were knife related. One guy's description sticks with me today it was so vivid.
"Coming in the living room of the shotgun house we saw some blood spatters on the wall and a bit on the floor near the kitchen door. We went into the kitchen and it looked like someone had been killing chickens in there. The floor was covered in sticky blood. Not spattered, but covered. The walls were nearly covered in blood. The table and chairs were covered in blood. The counter, the stove, the sink... It was sticky and our feet were like they wanted to stick to the floor. There were 4 people in there and only one wasn't breathing, but none were moving much. They all had lung punctures, arm, and head/neck wounds. A couple were missing parts of their hands where they were holding knives or fending them off. There were a couple of kitchen drawer yanked out and a knife block on its side. There were kitchen knives in their hands and scattered about. The woman was still alive. The biggest and smallest guy were still alive, but barely. The middle guy was very very dead. Looked like a fight broke out and someone stabbed someone in the living room and it went to the kitchen where everyone grabbed whatever knives were handy and they went at each other like Dervishes. Worst thing I'd ever seen." Brrrrrrr

Outlaw Man
December 18, 2013, 05:53 PM
It gives you some insight into their feelings toward the victims, as well. It's "easy" to squeeze a trigger from distance compared to the force and repetition at feel-their-breath distance required for a knife homicide, I'd guess. Stabbing/slicing is a very brutal way to die, from everything I've seen, and I have never been an EMT or ED doctor.

It goes to show what we all know: if someone really wants to kill another person, the lack of a firearm isn't going to stop them. In fact, it happens a LOT more than school shootings.

glistam
December 18, 2013, 09:18 PM
It goes to show what we all know: if someone really wants to kill another person, the lack of a firearm isn't going to stop them.

Heck look at the UK. 29% of murders there use nothing but the assailant's bare hands. And when you factor in that their murder stats only count identified suspects (not number of victims like the US), the murder rate per capita is about the same.

lobo9er
December 31, 2013, 06:14 PM
Funny how these facts seem to not be discussed when the gun control advocates spout off. HSO...awful...

Deltaboy
January 1, 2014, 02:28 PM
Guns are not used as much as the Antis claim.

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