SCAR17S in NRA High Power


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Trent
December 23, 2013, 06:56 PM
Is the SCAR17S considered a legal service rifle, by NRA High Power rules?

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Laphroaig
December 23, 2013, 11:10 PM
I don't think so. An NRA service rifle has to be a USGI design. You might have to compete as a match rifle.

Laphroaig

Owen
December 23, 2013, 11:12 PM
Laphroaig, MK17 is a USGI design, used by SOCOM, and probably in greater numbers than the M110.

Trent
December 24, 2013, 12:10 AM
Yeah that's what I was wondering, if there is an official ruling on it. I plan on using it in our non-sanctioned highpower matches, was just curious if I can run it in service rifle next year at Camp Perry.

Production order was in the several tens of thousands, and the MK17 is used by US SOCOM (all branches) and US Marines now.

This thing can SHOOT. :)

Laphroaig
December 24, 2013, 10:44 AM
I didn't know that. So it probably is OK. I think both rule books are online, check and see.

Laphroaig

Trent
December 24, 2013, 02:42 PM
Rule books don't specifically mention it. They also don't mention any requirements on how many need to be issued or produced / procured. Just says "in service in any of the branches."

I'd like to get it 100% confirmed before next summer. Don't want to drive 10 hours just to find out they won't let me shoot my rifle in Service Rifle. :)

I'll put this SCAR 17 up against a national match M1A any day of the week. Zero modifications, it shoots *exceptionally* well.

My only complaint so far is 1) it's a little on the light side, which is a disadvantage for long range, and 2) the folding stock seam grabs my whisker hairs and pulls them out painfully, in certain positions. Trigger pull is a bit stiff but solid, and predictable.

Hangingrock
December 24, 2013, 03:44 PM
Simply send the NRA an E-Mail and end the pointless speculation on your part.

Trent
December 24, 2013, 03:59 PM
Simply send the NRA an E-Mail and end the pointless speculation on your part.

Figured THR might be a faster route, given the wide variety and experience of folks on here. I e-mailed them a few weeks ago on a different question and have yet to get a response.

Jim Watson
December 25, 2013, 06:49 AM
http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

Rule 3.1 says "This section defines authorized equipment." (Emphasis added.)
It lists only M1, M14/M1A, M16/AR15, and M110.

I don't see any slack there to add your FN.


http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

The CMP has much the same language but does not include the M110.
It says "Competitors may use any of the following rifles in the National Trophy Matches and CMP sanctioned Excellence in Competition Matches. [M1, M14, M16 or commercial equivalents]

Trent
December 25, 2013, 11:21 AM
OK ... that sucks. :(

Caliper_RWVA
December 25, 2013, 11:50 AM
The military uses ACOGs all over now, but those aren't legal in service rifle either. Of course most "service rifles" on the line aren't exactly GI either...

I believe the CMP has a modern military rifle division that a SCAR could compete in.

Trent
December 25, 2013, 12:06 PM
Yeah the SCAR is good enough to hold it's ground in Service Rifle. I'm not convinced it has the stones to stand up in the Match rifle class though.

Was thinking of using the FN-AR in Any-sight Match Rifle. The SCAR can shoot. But.. The FN-AR can shoot.. betterer. :)

Jim Watson
December 26, 2013, 03:48 PM
So shoot it. If it pushes you into Match Rifle, so what? You are shooting your rifle in good company and that's what counts.

Trent
December 26, 2013, 05:19 PM
Good point, Jim!

BullfrogKen
December 26, 2013, 10:59 PM
I second what Jim said.

Trent
December 27, 2013, 12:58 AM
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

I don't own an AR that would qualify for Service Rifle. I don't own an M1A/M14.

The other service rifles I have aren't listed; 30/40 Krag, 1903 Springfield, and M1 Garand.

Trent
December 31, 2013, 12:35 PM
OK, so I eat a little crow here.

It only took a week to hear back from the NRA. Not bad, considering the holidays. :)


Mr. Lawrence,
I was instructed by the High-power Manager to send you this information.
No immediate plans to add that to the service rifle category. They can now shoot in the Any Rifle category but no plans at the last high power committee meeting held in October 2013.

If you have any further questions. Please contact the High-power Manager at: sjudd@nrahq.org.

Competitors’ Liaison
Competitive Shooting Division

Detritus
January 9, 2014, 10:23 PM
The other service rifles I have aren't listed.... and M1 Garand.

The Garand is one of the rifles allowed in Service rifle

Rule 3.1 says "This section defines authorized equipment."...

M1, M14/M1A, M16/AR15, and M110.


Personally I wouldn't hold my breath for the SCAR to be added to the service rifle list anytime soon if ever.
As I understand it, the addition of the M110 to the list occurred only after the AMU just about demanded it. Was told they were unsatisfied with the results they were getting with .223 at 1K.

Trent
January 10, 2014, 12:36 AM
Detritus; doh' .. I completely missed that.

Unsatisfied with the results of .223 at 1k? Gee. I wonder why that would be.. the wind? or the fact they're dropping at the same angle as Sputnik on re-entry? :)

Pete D.
January 10, 2014, 06:13 AM
Anyone got a picture of an M110 with match sights?

Detritus
January 10, 2014, 08:22 AM
Unsatisfied with the results of .223 at 1k? Gee. I wonder why that would be.. the wind? or the fact they're dropping at the same angle as Sputnik on re-entry?

discussion I came across regarding this said that, even with being able to fine tune rifles and ammo to an extent most of us can only dream of. The AMU found that an unacceptable number (for them) of their shots at 1K were going unstable short of the target up to and including some shots failing to even reach the target face.
and when you're the AMU equipment isn't supposed to be what keeps you from your goal...


Civilian Service Rifle guys shoot 1K all the time with .223 ARs built and fed for that extreme. So .223 at 1K can be done and many are happy with it. But I rather doubt that anyone who has to pay for his own gear and supplies is going to produce as large a sample size of shots fired and their results as the AMU.

Howard Roark
January 10, 2014, 02:22 PM
There is a picture and short write up of the AMU service rifle 1K record setting team with the M110 about 3/4 down on this page: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/service-rifle/

Their M110s load holds verticle dispersion of about 10" at 1K. The problems with the .223 are as stated above. It doesn't make any difference if 90 gr. bullets are shot out of a 1-6twist barrel if they have the rotational stability but lack forward momentum at the target. There is only so much that the little .223 can give.

With a dwindling supply of M-14s to build along with the problems that go along with accurizing and keeping a M-14 accurate they pretty much had to go with the M110. A M-14/M1A would quickly beat itself appart shooting the loads that the M110 uses.

W.E.G.
January 10, 2014, 02:28 PM
The SCAR is not a service rifle under NRA or CMP rules.

Shoot your SCAR in the match rifle class at NRA matches, and just enjoy being at the range.

mustbe
January 19, 2014, 10:38 AM
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

I don't own an AR that would qualify for Service Rifle. I don't own an M1A/M14.

The other service rifles I have aren't listed; 30/40 Krag, 1903 Springfield, and M1 Garand.

You have the options of the Krag and 1903 in vintage or the M1 in Garand matches. Same procedures but normally more relaxed and fun. I shoot all three catagories and tend to enjoy vintage the most.

I will use the M1 for service rifle from time to time just to change it up. I have not been top shooter with it, but have never been on the bottom either. If the wind is gusting the big gun takes some of the wind reading out of the equation.

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