Reduced recoil 12ga options


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Arizona_Mike
December 30, 2013, 03:48 AM
Don't ask for my man card! This is a safety issue. I want to be able to fire buckshot in my new single trigger Lupara (link to thread in NFA subforum--discuss the gun there not here) (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9271590&postcount=55) without it doubling when fired one handed.

What are good options out there are various payload and velocity options? When I had 18.5" of barrel my impression is that weight mattered a lot more than velocity (1 oz slugs were pretty mild) but it's now hard to tell between levels of recoil with a 12" barrel.

Mike

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rodregier
December 30, 2013, 05:22 AM
Reduced recoil / tactical buckshot and slug loadings are available from most of the majors (Fed, win, Rem etc).

They are reduced velocity and sometimes reduced mass (8 vs 9 pellet buck, for example).

They will deliver recoil similar as a light trap load.

Get a box of a light trap loading (2.75 dram equiv) and see if that is an acceptable recoil level in your candidate shotgun.

Non-exclusive example of a light 12GA trap loading is Fed TGL12-8
(2.75 dram equiv 1.125 oz #8 - 1145 ft/sec)

Reduced loadings are what I run in my shotguns, including my 14" pump. Plenty of power for clay, paper or serious work. Followup shots are quicker with a light loading.

n.b. short-barrelled manually operated shotguns are becoming popular in Canada since they are in the same classification category as a 30" shotguns due to the way Canada's firearm laws are written.

oneounceload
December 30, 2013, 10:57 AM
Try reloading reduced loads - both in velocity and payload - your recoil reduction will be substantial. Remember the velocity component is squared in the recoil calculation so a slight reduction (or increase) has an exponential correspondence to the recoil

Fred Fuller
December 30, 2013, 11:21 AM
Sounds like it might be a good candidate for the Aguila MiniShells...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/162922/aguila-minishell-ammunition-12-gauge-1-3-4-4-and-1-buckshot-11-pellets-box-of-20

Nobel has a 2.2" mini shell too -

http://www.jgsales.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=33

Arizona_Mike
December 30, 2013, 12:29 PM
Double post deleted.

Arizona_Mike
December 30, 2013, 12:30 PM
I have found a couple types of 00 loadings locally that I will try soon. Hornady TAP 8 pellet @1100 fps and Herters 6 pellet at 1250 fps. Muzzle energy is about 60% of a standard load in both cases. I need to figure out a way to keep the wood forestock from loosening up first.

The gun does not double with with low brass trap loads. I just shot 25 rounds of birdshot and 25 buck yesterday.

It looks like mini-shells give about 5/8 oz of payload at 1200 fps. This should be about 45% the muzzle enenergy of a standard load. I suspect they would be downright mild.

Mike

Fred Fuller
December 30, 2013, 06:26 PM
If you want to stay with 2.75"/70mm shells, the softest kicking I have found so far are Fiocchi reduced recoil 00 loads... 1150 fps, 9 plated pellets.

See http://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-00-buck-fiocchi-reduced-recoil-le-plano-can-80-rounds, other outlets stock them also.

oneounceload
December 30, 2013, 06:33 PM
Get your payload (no matter the size) under 1oz, and get your velocity under 1200, and your recoil should be OK
Plug your numbers into this:
http://www.omahamarian.org/trap/shotshellenergy.html

Use about 45 grains for the wad and about 19 grains for the powder and that should be real close

Arizona_Mike
December 31, 2013, 12:56 PM
Thanks for the useful calculator.

Mike

Arizona_Mike
January 4, 2014, 01:29 AM
Here is what I have shot so far:


Royal Buck 12ga 2.75" 9 pellet 00 Buck -- 1.125oz@1345 fps
Olin "Military Grade" 12 ga 2.75" 9 pellet 00 Buck -- 1.125oz@1325 fps
Hornday TAP Reduced Recoil 12ga 2.75" 8 pellet 00 Buck -- 1oz@1100fps
Herter's Mini-Buckshot 12ga 2.25" 6 pellet 00 Buck -- 0.75oz@1250fps


I know stated velocities are for a 30" barrel but shotguns loose very litte velocity after the first 10 or so inches of barrel length so I am going to take them as given. Also I know the calculated recoil energy is based on a simple conservation of momentum calculation for an unheld "floating" shotgun. Again, I will take them as given. The shotgun weighs 5lb even.

Here are the muzzle energies / calculated recoil energies / perceived recoil rank / my comments

1978 ft-lbs / 41.8 ft-lbs / #1 / highest -- gun doubles when fired in one hand.
1919 ft-lbs / 40.7 ft-lbs / #2 / close 2nd -- gun doubles when fired in on hand.
1176 ft-lbs / 24.4 ft-lbs / #4 / kind of a rolling shove, very mild, not sharp -- gun does not double
1139 ft-lbs / 19.6 ft-lbs / #3 / less shove than full power but still sharp -- gun does not double


Both #3 and #4 have about 60% of the muzzle energy of full power loads.
#3 is supposed to have 25% more recoil than #4 but is in fact significantly more mild.

A 1oz load at 1100fps is just about perfect for this gun. It seems to be a real sweet spot.

Mike

Kurt S.
January 4, 2014, 05:21 PM
Although your "lupara" is a different animal than my Baikal coach gun, I agree with Fred Fuller's suggestion regarding Aguila Minishells . I find recoil as almost negligible from my coach gun. Advertised velocity (as I recollect) is 1200 FPS.


"man card", haha! If you find 1oz slugs through a coach gun as "mild", IMHO nobody's got any business making remarks!

spottedpony
January 4, 2014, 06:43 PM
This is a safety issue. I want to be able to fire buckshot in my new single trigger Lupara (link to thread in NFA subforum--discuss the gun there not here) without it doubling when fired one handed.


First and foremost, realize I know nothing about this particular shotgun, thus, I comment or question, simply from past experience when adjusting triggers and having them set a bit too light.

The fact you mention a double fire condition under certain conditions makes me think there is an unsafe trigger issue, either a trigger tuned, or adjusted way too light, thus making it unsafe, or a malfunction/design/wear issue resulting in an unsafe condition.
In any event, if the gun doubles under any circumstances, perhaps a trip in for repair is in order.
Just food for thought.

ugaarguy
January 5, 2014, 12:34 AM
Spottedpony, it's not a safety issue, and it's not a trigger tuning issue. It's an issue with the size and weight of the gun as configured, which makes lower recoil ammo a necessity. Did you bother to click on the link to see the firearm being discussed?

Arizona_Mike
January 5, 2014, 01:25 AM
I consider it a safety issue because I don't want to be pulling any triggers without conscious intent.

The first sear breaks as 5.5lb and the second sear breaks at 6.25lb and requires the trigger to be let out nearly all the way to reset. It is bumpfiring from the elasticity of my hand under recoil from full power 12 ga when fired in one hand. Using full power loads with a second hand on the gun or one handed using reduced recoil buck or birdshot (even 3 dram).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21431738/dec2013/20131228_142211.jpg

Mike

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