Muzzle brake/comp for ar 308


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Hawk 3/21
December 30, 2013, 01:21 PM
I need some help. I've been reading & reading, but just can't find any good head to head info. Found a site with good recoil, muzz rise info but had nothing on blast or concussion to the shooter. Etc etc, one person says watchout, it has blowback/concussion directly into the shooters face. You get the idea.

Ok, a little background. Years ago I had to get rid of all my powerful rifles due to spinal damage (uniforms too). 1944 303 Enfield, 1917 Remington in 7.62......traded for pisol cal carbines. While I love them, I really missed having the power & distance. So when I recently saw videos of 10&12yr olds shooting ar 308's w/o recoil issues I decided to try agian.

Walking & carrying weight are no longer my strong points, so I compromised with a 18". 16" seemed to give up too much performance & 20/22" was just too heavy. Bolt action may have been a better choice from a weight standpoint, but on a army disability budget every piece must fill mult roles. I never accepted the 5.56 as a good defense round, the weight would have been ideal. I gave up on 6.5 because I can't reload anymore, price and availability of anything other than 308 was just too sketchy. Who knows when this insanity shall end, even 22's are harder to buy than 308. This is a constant balancing act, ie my m1 carb will have to go. While easy to reload, they're harder to locate & more expensive than 45's. Finances dictate trading the m1 as opposed to just adding the 308.

Perhaps too much background, but you know how the responses come....just buy the grendel. ..buy both the bolt & ar, etc.

So finally to my question. I am looking at the fsc 30 comp/brake that comes on the scar 17. Does it have significant blowback (noise, gas, concussion) on the shooter. I've seen a good video on the babc & fsc30 by vuurpen blog.....spelling may be way of, but he doesn't address whether blowback issue. Some people write it hits them in the face, some say it's fine. What's the truth?
With its the babc I can see his shoulder moving significantly more from the recoil. Looks like it may be too much for my spine. In a pinch, no problem but I don't want to spend 3 days in bed everytime I practise. Wish they rented these out, could be just fine. Maybe you have experience.
The babc looks like it would be better on the ears/concussion, but even with that I've read guys writing they have both & feel no significant difference.

So....Seekins, mtsn qc, babc, fsc30. What's going to tame the recoil without blasting my face.....what's quieter, but still effective with the recoil?

Thanks

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Highcaliber
December 30, 2013, 01:44 PM
My vote is for one of the .308 Surefire muzzle brakes or the Battlecomp as a second choice.

http://www.surefire.com/tactical-equipment/suppressor-adapters/muzzle-brake-adapter.html


BABC from Battlecomp.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/compensators/308-battlecomp-prod58353.aspx

Hawk 3/21
January 3, 2014, 09:49 AM
Thanks, I haven't been receiving notices since I switched phones. Didn't intend to take so long to reply.

Thank you for your help. I have looked at the surefire a bit. I just can't find any consistent info on concussion, blowback into the shooter....all write-ups seem to concur that its brake/comp function is good.

The babc is high on my list, every report I've read agrees the concussion/blowback is significantly less than the others. Watching the video from vuurpen... (sp)...I can see the shooters shoulder moving a lot more than the fsc30. I just can't tell how strong it really is. For instance many posters say X comp feels like a 223. So you get an idea of what their feeling.

So, just for clarity, I have no problems w/45acp carbine 16". 45lc carbine lever action is ok with medium loads, but too much with heavy loads. Not so bad that I wouldn't fire it 5-10 times if necessary, but more than that = a few days in bed. Of course the beretta 45 delivers recoil differently than the lever, how much is unknowable so just add a little salt.

Hopefully people with comps/brakes can chime in with their experiences. ie, how much reduction you feel, how much concussion, is the concussion only effecting others or the shooter too.

Oh yeah, have a great 2014

Carne Frio
January 3, 2014, 11:20 AM
Mako makes a recoil reducing stock that fits on AR's in .308
that have the carbine stock. It makes my Bushmaster MOE
shoot softer. I have heard that a heavier buffer weight also
helps.
http://www.themakogroup.com/product_p/gl-shock.htm

taliv
January 3, 2014, 04:01 PM
surefire brake is one of the most obnoxious as far as noise and concussion

the FSC is not bad.

however, it sounds from your post like the real problem is that you need to accept that the 223/556 round is a fantastic defensive round. and it's a whole lot cheaper than 308-based ARs so that helps on the finance side so you can afford to practice and shoot more often, and of course the recoil is really nominal.

if you have the $ and time, a suppressor is best of both worlds in terms of both recoil reduction and sound reduction

Hawk 3/21
January 3, 2014, 06:12 PM
Taliv, thanks.

I've spent a lot of time behind a 5.56.....lost track of how many rounds, but I carried 680rds on me and 250 in reserve. Not a round I would carry by choice. Don't get me wrong, it shoots like a dream in the ar. It lacks thump. Has no energy at distance and not good with barriers. I believe the 125gr 2700 fps rounds (30/30, 7.6239) have proven far better for the role the 5.56 fills. Look at what hunters use it for & the limitations. At distance they limit themselves to tiny critters & even deer are illegal in a lot of places. I believe it would be fine @ 50yrds offhand @100yrds supported, but so would my 22lr or 45 carbine. Both are 1- 1 1/2 groups @ 100. Wouldn't be my first choice, but if you're hungry...both group within 2" @ 100 (soda can).

The thing is both of those balance better for me. Ammo is super cheap, 45acp is one of the easiest to reload (hope my health improves, but I still have a lot). The 45 carbine shares ammo with my 1911 and is superior for home defense. ie shoot that 5.56 at night, groggy from sleep, adrenaline pumping, in the dark & hope you only have to worry about it's wound exit speed. If you look at the police, they're fully awake, have this stress regularly so they're acclimated and are on their toes alert already. Yet most bullets miss the target. So how many layers of drywall/bedrooms will that 5.56 go thru. Plus its increadibly loud indoors. The 45 is a slow thumper with a large face, so it's a little safer. Nice hollowpoints to slow it faster (even have some extreme shock to minimize penetration further. Slap in a mag of fmj & you have a lot ot game that will fall inside 100yrds.

That leaves only distance heavy weight. The 6.5 or 6.8 would be optimal from the weight of the ar. High cap (relatively) & decent range & bullet weight. Even when I reloaded, I only did straight wall. So that's another.....but even reloading price & availability is a prob.

308 is old (proven), reliable ane readily available at a modest price.

Sorry, batt is dead, can't finish. Just wanted you to know I took your advice seriously & gave it thought.

Good to know about the surefire. If 10-12yr olds can shoot these braked ar 308, so can I. It's just a matter of researching to find the best fit. Already lost 50% hearing in one ear & the constant loud ringing is a bitch. So I will endeavor to find the best fit

Thanks for the help

floorit76
January 3, 2014, 06:18 PM
Look into a big chubby comp from ratworx. Though I'm not certain that they make one for an AR barrel contour....

Hawk 3/21
January 4, 2014, 11:23 AM
Look into a big chubby comp from ratworx. Though I'm not certain that they make one for an AR barrel contour....

Thanks, i'll check it out

Speedster00
January 12, 2014, 11:59 AM
I've read good things about the Jerry miculek break which seems to be similar to the JP enterprises one. If sound and recoil are major concerns especially in a home, think about a suppressor.

Hawk 3/21
March 30, 2014, 07:02 PM
Holy crap, I've gotta find a teenager to reset my this thing. Sorry about the delay, I was actually doing a google search and found this reply.

I've seen a lot of reviews of the miculek. Most say its a great bargain & really good recoil reduction, but loud & concussive.

Taliv, a suppressor would be nice. Cost.....not on a VA budget. Medical gear & rehab is eating $ fast. More than that, I would need you to carry it for me. The babc & fsc30 already worry me @ 3.5 oz. Lol

I've been looking at the griffin m4sd ii flash comp. Saw a great youtube 5 part comparison......5.56 cal. This looks to be as good or better than the babc for $100++ less. Nice that it has some flash supp ablilities. Low concussion like the babc.

The problem is when talking recoil, they say its very good compared to compareable devises. I take that to mean babc, dyncomp etc. No info how it compares to the brakes in the vid. With the fsc556, they say concussion wasn't bad compared to similar brakes. The side prone didn't dig a hole in the grass like the titan or other pure brakes, so that seems reasonable.

So why do I hear so many people writing they clear benches next to them with the fsc, as if its as bad as a titan? Too much contrary info. What's the truth and how do they stack up side to side?

There's a great vid by vuurwappen (sp), fsc30 & babc split screen slo-mo. The impact & movement of the shooters shoulder is noticeably more with the babc. How much more ??? Unfortunately they make no comparison of concussion to the shooter/neighbors.

Ill probably give the griffin a try, due to its lesser concussion and hope the recoil reduction is good enough. I sure wish someone had reliable info of the concussive nature of the fsc30, the recoil reduction looks to be acceptable.

Hawk 3/21
April 9, 2014, 09:19 AM
Wow, did I post this under air rifles? I'm gonna claim brain damage. No wonder I didn't hear more.

Robert
April 9, 2014, 10:13 AM
The problem with comps or breaks that work really well is that they redirect energy and turn some of it into noise. The JP Coolie Comp works great. One of the best I have ever used but I call it a loudener for a reason.

As the shooter I don't notice the noise or any increase in concussion but if you are standing off to the side it can be harsh. But, it works really well.

I am not meaning to beat a dead horse nor discount your experience with 5.56, but what exactly are you looking to use this new rifle/round for? Your typical self defense situation does not have one engaging targets at very long range or through hardened objects.

Now, don't get me wrong. While I love my 5.56 AR I absolutely want to add an AR10 to the fold. I guess I was just curious as to what you see the role of this rifle truly being.

Hawk 3/21
April 9, 2014, 12:11 PM
The problem with comps or breaks that work really well is that they redirect energy and turn some of it into noise. The JP Coolie Comp works great. One of the best I have ever used but I call it a loudener for a reason.

As the shooter I don't notice the noise or any increase in concussion but if you are standing off to the side it can be harsh. But, it works really well.

I am not meaning to beat a dead horse nor discount your experience with 5.56, but what exactly are you looking to use this new rifle/round for? Your typical self defense situation does not have one engaging targets at very long range or through hardened objects.

Now, don't get me wrong. While I love my 5.56 AR I absolutely want to add an AR10 to the fold. I guess I was just curious as to what you see the role of this rifle truly being.

Thanks for the reply.

As for what I envision the rifles role to be, experience has taught me that Murphy always has his say. So reality is rarely what we plan for. I have a pistol cal carb for home defense. No way to say in advance that I wont be blocked from that side of the house. IE, I'm on the couch & I hear the window breaking in the room storing the carb. Then, the 308 would have to fill that role. As horrible as that would be, still better than going in unarmed. Too heavy for a hunting rifle, but if hunger dictates, it would be able to do that too. The carb is good to 100yards (soda can accurate, every time). 230gr will carry enough energy to take most game at that distance, with that accuracy. The 223 has more distance, but lacks punch @ 400-600. 5.56 could certainly fill the HD role as well as the 308, both punishing & not a first choice, but better than a stick.

I dont know what you consider "defense", but aside from my infantry experience, Miami was also visited by hurricane Andrew and the overtown riots. Week long, no police/wait for the military to arrive. I dont know if most of the country can appreciate having the military being deployed in your hometown. "Defense" takes on a whole new meaning when the police stay home because their families are in too much danger for them to go to work. Defense has a different meaning when mobs are burning people alive in their vehicles. Miami, a great place to be from.....not so nice to be in. Glad I'm not there.

I dont believe in collecting a large # of weapons, after all, you can only carry so much. In that light, the 5.56 cannot hunt as well as the 308, is equally painful to use indoors. Both give you the capability to create covering fire if you need to move family tto a safer location. Both share good availability of ammo for a reasonable price. The edge on price going to 5.56 surplus, but not by a lot. Have you looked at retained energy of the 5.56 @ 400-600yards. It could be b.s., but milt instructors told us the 5.56 had the energy of a 22's muzzle energy (22mag?) @ that range. (Sorry, to much time has passed, cant remember if that was 400 or 600). In the end, I look to people that actively hunt with the 5.56 & prairie dogs are the size limit. If I am hunting to feed my family, the cost/lb is awful. If I'm hunting, round a corner and a bear or moose (ok, that would be a long walk to moose country), is suddenly in front of me, a semi 308 will probably be enough to come out alive. I cant say that with a 5.56.

So, while my 45carb would be my choice if available inside the house, if I had to sling one rifle & holster a sidearm, the 308 would be preferable. Ok, most of you dont have to consider the house blowing away, live in friendlier places. Didnt have Castro empty his jails on your doorstep. Bill, a holocaust survivor, told me (as a child) to be ever vigilant, keep my eyes open. It can happen anywhere, at anytime. Dont believe the comfort/security you enjoy today will greet you tomorrow.

Ammo availability, cost, short & long range capable. The ability to put dinner on the table. Combined with a 22lr and sidearm, the most situations possible are covered. The 22 would probably put more food on the table & be used 99% of the time, but cant stand alone.

As far as the brake goes, I agree about the loudness. I tried to order the seekins precision, because of P Kelly's posts. He doesnt use the titan or thunder because he believes the concussion/backblast effects his shooting as much as m rise. 308 is unbelievably hard to find any direct comparisons & we cannot use the 5.56 results & apply them to 308. Mr kelly finds the seekins to be the best compromise for his needs, ie least backblast with good recoil/rise management.

With my spine being as jacked up as it is, I can only wonder if it would reduce recoil enough for me. A moot point because after ordering from seekins my cc wasnt charged. I emailed & was told they have none (would have been nice if the website showed it was out of stock) & have no eta.

I am a firm believer In practicing how you will actually use it. So no reduced power ammo, no titan for max recoil & a second comp for shtf. The fsc30 looks great, but conflicting reports on its concussive nature. I believe this is going to be like holsters and I'm going to end up w/a drawer full before I find the one. All things considered, I am going with the griffin flash comp. It seems to be a good compromise if I have to hunt or defend. Ill just have to see if l am able to shoot more than once.

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