22 flying / Survival-vest pistol search


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Float Pilot
December 30, 2013, 05:57 PM
For years I carried a S&W 22 AirLite revolver in my flying survival vest. But the accuracy was just not there and I sold it off a few months ago.

So I am back searching for a accurate and reliable 22 to carry in my flying survival vest. If I dump the plane in a remote lake I figure I would just need to shoot a couple protected ducks and the Fish and Game cops will jump out of the bushes and take me to a nice warm jail.

I tried a Walther P22 and it was a piece of junk.
I also tried a S&W model 22 and it was super ammo picky and spent lots of time being jammed up.

I have been thinking about the following.
I have never owned or shot any of these.

Browning Buckmark
Ruger 22/45 Lite
Sig Mosquito

Any owners thoughts????


Any other ideas ???

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gotime242
December 30, 2013, 06:07 PM
The Ruger LCR comes in 22 and 22 WMR

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-LCR22/DSC02650.JPG

Float Pilot
December 30, 2013, 06:20 PM
I need to be able to consistently hit something the size of a Ritz cracker at 15-20 yards. So adjustable sights would be nice.

<*(((><
December 30, 2013, 06:21 PM
My vote is either the Buckmark or the 22/45 Lite. I don't think you could go wrong with either as I think they are both proven designs. I've heard the Sig Mosquito's are a mixed bag as to what people get reliability wise with them.

Or how about a Springfield M6 Scout, not 'vest pocket' duty per se, but built with a downed pilot in mind.

SleazyRider
December 30, 2013, 06:27 PM
It is impossible not to like a Buckmark. It accepts any ammo under any conditions and is remarkably accurate. I'm not sure I'd call it a "vest pocket" gun, however, as it's a bit larger than some of the others you mentioned.

Jaywalker
December 30, 2013, 06:58 PM
You didn't mention a price range, so I choose to guess you're flying a Cessna 208 and can therefore afford the best...

You can try to find a Smith M34 Kit Gun, or the modern equivalent, though I had a very unsuccessful couple of years with a nickel version back in the 1970s - I could not see the sights, and eventually sold it in favor of the

Beretta 70S (similar to this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=384608262) Mine was much more accurate than the Smith and had both 3.5" and 6" barrels. I think I only sold it because of the somewhat funky looks. I was a callow youth.

I replaced it with another Beretta, the M87BB: this one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=384964172 (In fact, I'd sign off and buy this one now.)

Alternatively, you could buy a bigger more accurate pistol, like the Buckmark or a Ruger.

Finally, you could completely avoid firearms and just stick a deck of cards in your pocket. When you start to play, someone will show up and tell you to put the red jack on the black queen, and you're saved! All without having to go to a nice, warm cell for harassing the rare ducks...

Float Pilot
December 30, 2013, 08:26 PM
Or how about a Springfield M6 Scout, not 'vest pocket' duty per se, but built with a downed pilot in mind.

I already have a modified Marlin Papoose in the aircraft survival kit. But since I teach float-plane flying and also do remote location wildlife photo guiding, there is always a big chance that all of my aircraft survival gear will be on the bottom of an ice-cold lake, inside the sinking plane, while I flounder my way to the shore.

I should say that I can always attach an external holster to my survival / flying vest.


Beretta 70S
I used to carry one when I was a plain clothes cop. It was a last ditch backup up in the armpit of my body armor. It had the bad habit of ejecting its magazine while holstered.

Seven High
December 30, 2013, 08:29 PM
My vote would be for the Ruger 22/45 with the threaded barrel. They are ultra reliable and rugged. If noise is a concern, you could add a suppressor. They have adjustable sights.

TimboKhan
December 30, 2013, 09:09 PM
Browning Buckmark
Ruger 22/45 Lite
Sig Mosquito

Of the three, I would suggest the Ruger. Buckmarks are a good gun, but I think the Rugers are tougher and more reliable. The Mosquitos routinely get negative reviews for being picky.

You might also consider the Ruger SR22. My wife traded her MkII for one, and we both find it to be quite nice.

timgd
December 30, 2013, 09:49 PM
I also suggest the beretta 70s.I have had mine for over 30 yrs with no issues.
100% reliable with any ammo and very accurate.It has spent years in my back pack, tackle box or in a holster,I have never had a problem with the magazine.

2wheels
December 30, 2013, 10:27 PM
Definitely not the Mosquito...

Mike OTDP
December 30, 2013, 10:39 PM
That Beretta is a steal at that price.

My choices would be:
Walther PP series - old production only. Not the new potmetal lookalikes.
Ruger Single-Six or Bearcat
S&W Model 34
High Standard Sport King (or any of the old HS pistols)

witchhunter
December 30, 2013, 11:11 PM
How about a S&W 63 or better yet a 651 in .22 WMR. I have both, love the magnum.

MICHAEL T
December 30, 2013, 11:22 PM
I would get a Ruger MKII and then have it modified to what I want . I dislike all the newer Ruger 22 's I still think older non PC are better made pistols

Cloud
December 30, 2013, 11:22 PM
Did you think about the ruger 10/22 takedown .It would not take up to much space in the plane. And I would keep the ruger sr22 in my vest.

Float Pilot
December 30, 2013, 11:47 PM
Did you think about the ruger 10/22 takedown

I already have a modified Marlin Papoose in the aircraft survival kit. But since I teach float-plane flying and also do remote location wildlife photo guiding, there is always a big chance that all of my aircraft survival gear will be on the bottom of an ice-cold lake, inside the sinking plane, while I flounder my way to the shore.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174456&d=1352493589

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=174457&d=1352493916

Jaywalker
December 30, 2013, 11:58 PM
Float Pilot: I used to carry one when I was a plain clothes cop. It was a last ditch backup up in the armpit of my body armor. It had the bad habit of ejecting its magazine while holstered. Drawing down on ducks with a single-shot could be a problem. I understand Mossad used them successfully retaliating against Black September - I wonder if they ground down the mag release, or maybe their holsters shielded it. It's hard to argue against a good .22 Kit Gun, assuming you can see the sights.

In the 1970s, all the Air Force ever gave me was a two-inch M15 Smith 38 Special with 130 gr metal case ammunition for any possible walk back after a nylon letdown in the North. (I carried flexible copper wire for snares, instead of a .22.) Wadcutters would work on ducks, though, and be better for signaling.

Float Pilot
December 31, 2013, 12:05 AM
I could never hit a duck at 20 yards with the one I used to own. I just carried it in case I lost my Sig 220 and my alloy bodyguard ( an old nickel one I got from the evidence locker on my ankle.)
I figured 3 or 4 stingers into the groin at point blank range was better than a knife.

Onmilo
December 31, 2013, 05:33 AM
The 317 snubbies with fixed sights do seem to be a bit erratic where the bullets hit.
The 317 Kit guns do quite a bit better.
http://www.fototime.com/8AF9A848249A78C/standard.jpg
My wife bought this one for me one Christmas, funny how she uses it more than I do,,, anyway, She routinely breaks claybirds up into tiny chips banging away at 20 meters.
The chips she regularly dusts are about Ritz cracker size.
Neither of us liked the ramp front that came on the gun and the new ones have a fibre optic front that is just plain atrocious.
I put a patridge blade front on ten years ago, superb.
We lucked into a large lot of Federal Champon standard velocity solids that have proven uniformly excellent in all our .22 pistols hth

frankmako
December 31, 2013, 06:40 AM
ruger mkII got my vote.

danez71
December 31, 2013, 09:30 AM
While I prefer the BuckMark, I would choose the 22/45 because of weight... less weight in your plane and less weight in case your swimming to shore.

I like the SR22 a lot too but I'd rather have the longer barrel of the 22/45 in your potential situation of needing it to be able to eat.

Not the Mosquito.... the M&P 22 before that.

HexHead
December 31, 2013, 09:39 AM
An older S&W Model 63 Kit Gun. 4" barrel with orange front sight will give you the accuracy you're looking for and be reliable with any .22lr ammo.

mac66
December 31, 2013, 09:41 AM
I've had a MkII Ruger for decades, nice gun. I would opt for the 22/45 light version (23 ozs) however for your use. I recently picked up a Ruger SR22 (17.5 ozs). Nice little gun and pretty accurate, pretty light weight and has become my walking around in the woods gun.

meef
December 31, 2013, 09:57 AM
I hate that I sold mine years ago, but.... the Smith Model 63 is a great choice.

I'd look very closely at the Ruger SR22 as a reasonable, affordable next choice.

I like mine....:D

A lot.

Gtscotty
December 31, 2013, 10:09 AM
I currently have a Ruger SR22 (similar to the Walther, but with fewer issues) and a 22/45 lite (the gold colored first gen). The 22/45 lite is definitely my favorite of the .22 handguns I've owned. The 22/45 lite is, as the name would suggest, quite lightweight, but is also very accurate, reliable and easy to shoot. One thing to be mindful of is the 22/45 lite's size.... it's not terribly small, so I'd make sure that it fits in your vest pocket before taking the plunge.

mac66
December 31, 2013, 10:30 AM
A true "vest pocket" 22 would be a Beretta Mod 21 or a Taurus PT22. Both are small tip up barrel models. Not sure how accurate they are but they would be better than nothing. At some point there were longer aftermarket barrels available for them.

chicharrones
December 31, 2013, 11:15 AM
A true "vest pocket" 22 would be a Beretta Mod 21 or a Taurus PT22. Both are small tip up barrel models. Not sure how accurate they are but they would be better than nothing. At some point there were longer aftermarket barrels available for them.

Yeah, he needs bigger than that since those won't consistently hit a Ritz cracker at 15+ yards. At least the Beretta Bobcat won't in my hands unless maybe I throw it and get lucky on where it lands. :D

Gordon
December 31, 2013, 12:41 PM
Tried all mentioned and have most but my vote also goes for "My vote would be for the Ruger 22/45 with the threaded barrel. They are ultra reliable and rugged. If noise is a concern, you could add a suppressor. They have adjustable sights." as they are more reliable than everything except MAYBE and old Walther PP with good mags. The following seem good, but never tried one yet!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra5GBUf44ms

Pilot
December 31, 2013, 12:55 PM
FP,

I usually carry a CZ-75 9MM with me when flying my plane, and I keep the Kadet Kit .22LR conversion in my survival kit. However, if you are looking for a reliable accurate dedicated .22LR the Ruger MK series is a good choice. If you want to keep it light a 4 inch bull barrel, polymer framed 22/45 is a good option. I have one, and it does fly with me sometimes. Stone cold reliable with mini mags. and most bulk ammo. The new 22/45 "Lite" model also gets good reviews.

I have rather large hands, and shot a friends Ruger SR22 recently. It felt a bit small to me but functioned great. Not quite as accurate as the MK series.

You can't go wrong with a Browning Buckmark either, but I think the Rugers are a little more overbuilt, and sturdy.

I used a vest when I was based in the Colorado Rockies, but don't use it much where I am now. However, if it isn't strapped onto you, it's luggage, as you know.

Vern Humphrey
December 31, 2013, 12:56 PM
I'll cast my vote for the Ruger MKII. For some reason, people are willing to accept all sorts of weird equipment for "survival" use -- equipment they would never select if they were actually going hunting, camping or hiking. Get a gun that will work in a hunting situation and it will work for survival.

bannockburn
January 1, 2014, 02:31 PM
Yet another vote for a Beretta Model 70S. Fairly compact and lightweight, super reliable with everything I have ever put through it, along with a great SA trigger and a decent adjustable rear sight. I had mine hard chrome plated due to some problems with the original blued finish. Still my first choice for an all-around backwoods Kit Gun.

RX-79G
January 1, 2014, 02:44 PM
A Beretta 21 can be fired with surprising accuracy. Otherwise, jump up to a Bersa .22 - based on their PP sized .380s. Very accurate, and much higher quality than the P22/Mosquito type range guns.

I don't see the point of lugging around something as big as a Ruger MKII unless you want to leave the Marlin at home and replace it with a shotgun for bear.

wow6599
January 1, 2014, 04:13 PM
Browning Buckmark
Ruger 22/45 Lite
Sig Mosquito

The Ruger 22/45 Lite is an awesome firearm. I shot one, and it felt great and was really lite. Accurate too.

The Buckmark is a great .22 handgun, but it seems more like a camping or plinking type firearm. The Ruger is 11 oz lighter than the Buckmark.....

The "Sig" Mosquito is garbage. I shot one that would have failures almost every magazine. My father-in-law bought one and almost lost his religion with that gun.....pure crap.

B!ngo
January 1, 2014, 04:47 PM
So an out-of-the-box idea is a Glock 19 with .22lr conversion kit. Allegedly dependable and accurate and you could keep the 9x19 kit in your bag, if it makes it, for other concerns.
B

Float Pilot
January 1, 2014, 05:13 PM
you could keep the 9x19 kit

There would be no reason to carry or use a 9mm here in Alaska as a field gun.

During bear season I usually either carry a 6 inch model-29 44 mag, with 300 grain hard-cast handloads, in a chest holster.
Or,,,sometimes I will carry my modified Glock 20 with 200 grain FMJs hand-loaded to 1200 fps. Again in a chest holster.
Even those are marginal as big brown bear protection.

B!ngo
January 1, 2014, 05:29 PM
There would be no reason to carry or use a 9mm here in Alaska as a field gun.

During bear season I usually either carry a 6 inch model-29 44 mag, with 300 grain hard-cast handloads, in a chest holster.
Or,,,sometimes I will carry my modified Glock 20 with 200 grain FMJs hand-loaded to 1200 fps. Again in a chest holster.
Even those are marginal as big brown bear protection.
Didn't mean to imply that the 9x19 would suffice for big critters but only that more options can be valuable if you don't sacrifice the primary goal to fulfill them.
B

Tortuga12
January 1, 2014, 05:47 PM
Not that I'm a survival expert by any means! But this one is plenty accurate, and tough as a bag of hammers.

http://i.imgur.com/8C7AvoT.jpg?4

I don't think I've ever had a malf. with it! Perhaps put some Hogue aluminum grips on it like these?

http://www.hoguestore.com/images/products/82172L.jpg

Might be a little big for the vest, though.

Leadbutt
January 2, 2014, 02:39 PM
Know space is at a premium on the vest and weight mite be an issue, but have you looked at a Ruger single action, 22 combo, weight is decent,adjustable sights and have the 22 mag cylinder if you want to bump up.

toivo
January 2, 2014, 05:37 PM
A true "vest pocket" 22 would be a Beretta Mod 21 or a Taurus PT22. Both are small tip up barrel models. Not sure how accurate they are but they would be better than nothing. At some point there were longer aftermarket barrels available for them.
Yeah, he needs bigger than that since those won't consistently hit a Ritz cracker at 15+ yards. At least the Beretta Bobcat won't in my hands unless maybe I throw it and get lucky on where it lands.
I have a PT22, and I feel that I'm doing well if I can hit a sheet of notebook paper at 15 yards. Forget the Ritz cracker. The Beretta may be more accurate, especially since it has a single-action option.

If you want fully adjustable sights, I'd say a Browning Buck Mark or a Ruger: either a MK III 22/45 or a Single Six .22LR/.22WMR convertible. If you can live with an accurate pistol that is only windage-adjustable, you could do a lot worse than the Bersa that RX-79G mentioned:

http://www.bersa.com/skin/frontend/blank/theme063/images/guns/Thunder-22-nkl-R-prev.jpg

Mine has been 100% reliable with Mini-Mags. If you practice with it, you should be able to hit your Ritz cracker.

Vern Humphrey
January 2, 2014, 06:02 PM
I feel that I'm doing well if I can hit a sheet of notebook paper at 15 yards. Forget the Ritz cracker.
I'd take a candidate gun squirrel hunting -- and if I couldn't bag a mess of squirrels, I'd look for another gun.

An alternative might be a centerfire revolver -- say a S&W Model 10 with a mixture of wadcutters and shot loads.

BSA1
January 2, 2014, 08:11 PM
As I foresee it your needs are;

1. Signaling for help

2. Killing small game for food

3. Self-defense

Comments;

1. While not as loud as bigger calibers the 22 is louder than yelling.

2. It is quickly easy based on the responses who has hunted small game with a handgun. The most common game is going to be birds and small mammels such as rabbits. Preventing meat destruction would be just as high on the scale (maybe more) than accuracy. Shooting a couple large game birds such as Grouse and Rabbits require careful shot placement (head shots ideally) while leaving as much meat as possible.

The best weapon for self defense is fire but it is a little hard to carry. While certainly lacking in TKO 22's have been proven to work.

My choices are;

Ruger semi-auto or Browning Buck Mark with extra magazine(s). The gun isn't worth much if it's magazine is missing.

Ruger Single Six or Single Ten revolver. I would choose the Single Six in 22 Magnum as it is louder (signaling) and more powerful for bigger game. This would likely be my first choice.

My third choice is a double action revolver such as the S&W Kit Gun or a Taurus with 4" barrel.

Willie Sutton
January 3, 2014, 08:14 PM
Model 63 S&W. The classic J frame kit gun in stainless.

Anything else is a lesser choice.


I carry a M-9 in mine though... ;-)


Willie

.

weblance
January 3, 2014, 11:56 PM
How about a S&W 2213/2214. Excellent little pistols, and very accurate.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/weblance/fixed2_zpsa6c31b42.jpg

Onmilo
January 4, 2014, 01:35 AM
I like my 2214 about as well as you like your 2213 :)
http://www.fototime.com/0D22540207EDB68/standard.jpg
However as a survival gun it is a bit finicky on ammo choices, some european and bargain basement stuff will lock it up causing a few merry minutes spent freeing the action up.
My, (OK, My Wife's), AirLite Kit Gun is a better choice because it isn't at all finicky about ammo.

moojpg2
January 4, 2014, 01:42 AM
my vote is for ruger single 10 or single six. the semi autos are great but way too finicky with ammo, and they don't work when they're dirty.

stanmo
January 4, 2014, 08:32 AM
Model 63 S&W. The classic J frame kit gun in stainless.

Anything else is a lesser choice.


I carry a M-9 in mine though... ;-)


Willie


I know this is the Auto Forum but, I'm with Willie on this one, 8 shots, accurate, no jams, any ammo will do.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww215/MotownStan/IMG_0289sm_zpsa59dc37b.jpg

BSA1
January 4, 2014, 11:41 AM
No disrespect to the small guns that keep getting posted but they simply do not meet all of needs of a true survival situation They are all too small and not accurate enough to be used for real life small game hunting.

Another possible choice in theory although I withhold final opinion until the price comes down and actual field reports come in would be the KelTech PMR 30.

With a 30 round mag in the gun and a spare 30 round mag 60 rounds of 22 Magnum is a lot of firepower in a convenient package.

stanmo,

As a die hard revolver user that S&W looks good if accuracy holds up. Do they make it 22 Magnum?

chicharrones
January 4, 2014, 12:21 PM
If you want fully adjustable sights, I'd say a Browning Buck Mark or a Ruger: either a MK III 22/45 or a Single Six .22LR/.22WMR convertible. If you can live with an accurate pistol that is only windage-adjustable, you could do a lot worse than the Bersa that RX-79G mentioned:

Mine has been 100% reliable with Mini-Mags. If you practice with it, you should be able to hit your Ritz cracker.

The Bersa is a huge improvement over the mini-Beretta. I have one in .22LR as well. Yet, a Ritz cracker is still fairly safe on that first shot at 15 yards from me using the Bersa. My H&R 999 with adjustable precise sights gives me much more confidence at that range on a 1st shot hit, even with its heavy trigger.

Too bad the OP had a bad experience with his revolver. I pretty much think an aluminum frame DA/SA .22LR revolver with good adjustable sights would be just about perfect.

9mmforMe
January 4, 2014, 12:50 PM
The Taurus 94 is a 9 shot stainless steel revolver and the 941 is an 8 shot 22mag. Have owned both and both were reliable and quite accurate. These would be cheaper than a Smith and come with an excellent warranty, not to mention the SS versions offer greater corrosion resistance...adj sights too.

Here's a link to their website...go to small frame revolvers and then to page 2 for the 22s.

http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-results.cfm?name=Small

qwert65
January 4, 2014, 12:57 PM
+1 in an adjustable sighted single six or ten

John C
January 5, 2014, 07:10 PM
Was the .22 Airlite you got rid of a 2 inch, or 3 inch gun? Did it have adjustable sights?

Thanks,

-John

mdauben
January 6, 2014, 02:07 PM
So I am back searching for a accurate and reliable 22 to carry in my flying survival vest.
I'm suprised that you had such a problem with the S&W .22 revolver. The good old 317 "Kit Gun" (alloy frame, 3 inch barrel, adjustable sights) would be my first choice for your indicated usage.

If you are dead set against the 317, I might consider a 4 inch 617 revolver. With its steel frame its a heavier gun, but they are famous for being accurate. IF you are sour on all S&W .22 revolvers, I'd probably look at the Ruger Mk III "Standard" model next. A very reliable gun with reasonable accuracy. Its more limited in ammo that a good revolver but still a quality choice.

Float Pilot
January 6, 2014, 02:19 PM
Was the .22 Airlite you got rid of a 2 inch, or 3 inch gun? Did it have adjustable sights?

3 inch first model with adjustable sights. I just could not shoot that gun very well. I sold it to a local friend who is a much better shot than I am...

At my age I have found that I am now very far sighted. Suddenly 29 inch rifle barrels make sense.

So I may need to get something that I can mount with a pistol scope or a red-dot type sight.

Leadhead
January 6, 2014, 04:08 PM
23 ounces, cheap, reliable and accurate.
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245Lite/images/3906.jpg

I've got an advantage arms Glock29 conversion that is very light and accurate as well and you could stash the 10 mm mag and slide in your kit.

danez71
January 6, 2014, 07:00 PM
23 ounces, cheap, reliable and accurate.
http://www.ruger.com/products/2245Lite/images/3906.jpg



As the owner of a few of the ones listed in this thread (Bersa 22. Ruger SR22, BuckMark), given the OP's scenario of flying over water in Alaska, Id choose the Ruger Lite. Better accuracy than the 1st 2 and lighter than the BuckMark.

The OP also mentioned the possible need for optics. If the Ruger Lite cant accept optics, Id personally choose the BuckMark but the Ruger Mkseries is a fine choice too.

Vern Humphrey
January 6, 2014, 07:04 PM
One thing I sincerely wish for is getting rid of the stupid ban on shoulder stocks. A Ruger or Buckmark (or my 1938 Colt Woodsman) with a shoulder stock would be lighter, more compact and more accurate than an AR 7 or similar "survival" rifle.

Onmilo
January 6, 2014, 09:23 PM
Float Pilot
Adding a set of boot grips and a Patridge front sight blade made a world of difference with out 317 Kit Gun.
The ramp sight just didn't pick up very well and the UM gripper grip that came on the revolver was spongy and had the gun moving around in the hand too much.
You might take a second look at one of the heavier M63 Kit guns for better results.

chicharrones
January 7, 2014, 01:15 AM
At my age I have found that I am now very far sighted. Suddenly 29 inch rifle barrels make sense.

So I may need to get something that I can mount with a pistol scope or a red-dot type sight.

I've come to the same conclusion regarding long rifle barrels and sights on a pistol. Too bad a red dot on a pistol adds so much size because they work wonders for the eyes. And I am near sighted, but wearing tri-focal progressives don't help me see fixed sights that are too close in.

TimboKhan
January 7, 2014, 10:15 PM
One thing I sincerely wish for is getting rid of the stupid ban on shoulder stocks

Is that strictly true? Maybe I am not up on this because I haven't paid much attention to this particular part of the law, but can't you legally own the carbine kit for the Beretta NEOS? I thought that if it was originally bought and "registered" as a pistol, it was OK to put a stock on it and vice-versa.

Nite Ryder
January 7, 2014, 10:36 PM
I have five Ruger Mk pistols, and for the money they are hard to beat. Two of these Rugers are the early model of the 22/45, I didn't care for the later model. I also have a S&W 351 PD in 22 Mag that is a very good, reliable gun. If it were me, I would buy a S&W 386PD, it is very light weight and in a good holster you won't know you have it. It will take care of anything that a 22lr won't, like a cougar, black bear, etc...

Vern Humphrey
January 7, 2014, 10:37 PM
Is that strictly true? Maybe I am not up on this because I haven't paid much attention to this particular part of the law, but can't you legally own the carbine kit for the Beretta NEOS? I thought that if it was originally bought and "registered" as a pistol, it was OK to put a stock on it and vice-versa.
The answer is yes and no. They went after Thompson-Center who sold a receiver with stocks and barrels for both pistol and rifle in one package, and the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Thompson-Center.

But if you have, say a Ruger, Browning Buckmark, or Colt Woodsman and make a simple shoulder stock in your basement, you have to register it and pay a $200 tax.

kbbailey
January 7, 2014, 10:54 PM
My hunting buddy and I both use Ruger MKII with red-dot sights for squirrels and raccoon. They aren't light or pocket sized but they will shoot like a rifle and eat any ammo. I use mine for a truck-gun in the off-season.
If I couldn't use a MKII or( MKIII 22.45) for some reason, I' would check into a SR22. #1 son has one and it is light, smallish, and a good shooter that feels good in the hand and isn't picky on ammo. It's priced right too. If you can't hit a Ritz with it, you can surely scare the salt off of it.
Other than that I might go with a Browning compact 1911 .22. You may not be able to survive with one, but you will look like a boss with it in your vest when they find your corpse. All jokes aside, I think they're cool.

chicharrones
January 8, 2014, 09:01 AM
Is that strictly true? Maybe I am not up on this because I haven't paid much attention to this particular part of the law, but can't you legally own the carbine kit for the Beretta NEOS? I thought that if it was originally bought and "registered" as a pistol, it was OK to put a stock on it and vice-versa.

Regarding the Neos (like Vern mentioned) unless you go through the Federal hoops, you can't use the pistol barrel with the stock mounted.

http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/placards.jpg

meef
January 8, 2014, 09:40 AM
Another one I personally like that might fill the bill - early model Ruger Bearcat.

Light, accurate, fun (not that fun is supposed to be a factor) and reliable.

Furncliff
January 8, 2014, 11:31 AM
Old eyes, shaky hands, but I still like to shoot pistol. Recently I bought a Burris Fastfire III to mount on a .22 pistol. Comes in two dot sizes and with a few different mounts, it is small and works well. The big dif between the model 2 and 3 is where the battery door is located, small but significant improvement. Check it out.http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Burris+fast+fire+3

Mine is on a GSG 1911-22 with an aftermarket slide that is set up to accept an optic.
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh312/furncliff/88cba132-fbf1-48e4-9621-8ca3694ba8ac_zps6f29c0f5.jpg

(photo was meant to illustrate the difference in accuracy with the new slide and red dot...shot from a rest at 10 yards)

<*(((><
January 8, 2014, 12:08 PM
I put a burris fastfire III on my ruger 22/45 lite with the dovetail mount that replaces the rear sight and it is nice. I did have to shim the rear of the dovetail mount on the top (with some aluminum tape) to get the point of aim in the middle of the elevation adjustments on the fastfire. I was a little upset about having to do this, but oh well.

mac66
January 8, 2014, 06:28 PM
"No disrespect to the small guns that keep getting posted but they simply do not meet all of needs of a true survival situation They are all too small and not accurate enough to be used for real life small game hunting.

Another possible choice in theory although I withhold final opinion until the price comes down and actual field reports come in would be the KelTech PMR 30.

With a 30 round mag in the gun and a spare 30 round mag 60 rounds of 22 Magnum is a lot of firepower in a convenient package."


BSA1,

The OPs criteria is a "survival vest" gun. That kind of makes me think small and light. Small and light doesn't necessarily mean inaccurate. I carried a Charter Arms 3" bbl Pathfinder .22 while deer hunting for a long time. It took it's share of squirrels, rabbits and grouse over the years

Vern Humphrey
January 8, 2014, 07:34 PM
I keep reminding myself that Francis Gary Powers had very little space or weight allowance in that U2 he flew over Russia, but he carried a silenced High Standard .22 pistol -- about the same size as my Colt Woodsman.

Float Pilot
January 8, 2014, 08:02 PM
Yeap I think it was a High Standard HD govt model. They had a very long suppressor , but the couple I have fired were pretty quite.

Vern Humphrey
January 8, 2014, 08:04 PM
That's the gun. Now I would think in a float plane, with a bit more room, and no need for the suppressor, the High Standard would come very close to being ideal.

Gordon
January 8, 2014, 08:34 PM
Well there are a few new guns out that might be the bomb. The new Browning 1911-22 ones look good . The Sigsauer mini 1911 in 9mm (think it is 938) are REAL nice and at 15 oz they are accurate and then you would have 9mm power. Think I'd rather have 100 9mm rounds than 500 .22s for survival after looking back 50 interesting years of my life.

MrWhipple
January 9, 2014, 11:28 PM
I love my Sig Sauers. German Sig Sauers, not Sigarms of NH. I would never ever ever stake my life on a Mosquito. With all the horror stories I have heard regarding reliability and the pot metal zinc material they are smelted from you or I would deserve anything we got if we trusted our lives to one.

kbbailey
January 11, 2014, 12:01 PM
I certain that you know what makes the best survival gun for the Alaskan bush pilot. Far beit for a flatlander tractor jockey from an Illinois cornfield to make a suggestion but.....

here's what I think would be a 'good behind the seat' companion. It won't fit in your vest though.

http://lofigunandgame.com/the-baikal-mp94-combo-gun-reviewed/

A very nice review by a fellow THR member.

One of these with a 2.5x scope would make and awesome truck/plane/combine/cabin gun esp in a caliber/gauge that you already have ammo for.

my $.02 just for fun.

Kernel
January 13, 2014, 03:32 AM
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/img/model-name/Browning-1911-22-Compact-051803-1269m.jpg

My Browning 1911-22 Compact weighs only 15 oz. Though thin and small, it feels good in the hand and eats anything I feed it. It would disappear in your survival vest.

Grumpa72
January 13, 2014, 07:55 AM
Ruger SR22. Great pistol, accurate, light weight and fun too.

bpl
January 13, 2014, 06:11 PM
I've not owned or fired one, but I'd think that 22/45 lite would be perfect. I'd want something with a reasonable sight radius as a survival .22 so I could actually hit something with it and not waste precious ammo. I have a buckmark hunter and its plenty accurate but too big. I'm not sure if browning has a buckmark option small enough for your requirements, maybe the camper? How important is it to fit in the vest pocket?

torqem
January 13, 2014, 06:25 PM
I"ve taken a lot of critters with guns that would not do better than 3" at 20 yds. If you are really out in the sticks, they don't have much fear of man. I'd go with the Twisted Industries .22lr conversion unit AND the Keltec PF9. ccw the PF9 in a front pants pocket rig, and use the .22 for small game. It weighs only 13 ozs, when you include the frame. :-) Then you'd have the option of something with a bit of "oomph", and the .22 has an extractor, which which the PT22 and Beretta M21 do not have. It's quite a bit smaller and lighter than the Smith 2214, but is DAO, of course. So that may limit your accuracy. But the 2214 has an awkward/slow safety. It's very accurate tho, with a fine trigger pull.

somebody offers an aluminum upper receiver for the polymer Ruger .22 auto. I've seen it on Youtube. While bulky, it would be very lightweight if you had a "skinny" 4" barrel. If I was going to lug around a "big" .22, it would have an integral suppressor on it. They are a huge help when you are foraging. The animal or bird doesn't flee if you miss, and often, his buddies don't flee if you kill the first one cleaning. Hunting with a "can" is illegal in all but 1-2 states, but as you said, if the game warden shows up, you'll be happy to go to jail over it.

Float Pilot
January 13, 2014, 07:55 PM
I can attach a holster to my vest no problem. So fitting in the big cargo pockets is not a requirement.

Pilot
January 15, 2014, 05:24 PM
I've not owned or fired one, but I'd think that 22/45 lite would be perfect. I'd want something with a reasonable sight radius as a survival .22 so I could actually hit something with it and not waste precious ammo. I have a buckmark hunter and its plenty accurate but too big. I'm not sure if browning has a buckmark option small enough for your requirements, maybe the camper? How important is it to fit in the vest pocket?
Buckmark Micro has a four inch slab sided, bull barrel. It would be an excellent choice also, as are the Ruger MKII/22/45 series.

toivo
January 15, 2014, 05:42 PM
Buck Mark Micro is out of production, but I've seen them in Gander Mountain stores. The 4" barrel doesn't give much away to the 5.5" in terms of sight radius, and you could always toss a red-dot on there, with iron sights for back-up. That sounds about perfect to me.

JWH321
January 16, 2014, 08:02 AM
I sold my SR22 to buy a P938. I really hated to do it, but I've never been sorry. The P938 is accurate, small, lightweight, reliable, all metal and sturdy. I can carry an extra mag or two in a pocket and a couple of hundred rounds in a 3X5 plastic file card box.

The early 938s had a few production problems, but the latest editions are as close to perfectly reliable as can be found. And if I was in Alaska, I'd rather have a bit more mass to the round I fire. One more thing, its pretty hard to find anything louder than a small 9mm.

WYO
January 16, 2014, 09:09 AM
Sig just announced this week that it will be making .22 LR conversion units for the P938, in both a standard and "long slide" versions. The press release is at http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/aboutus/news/P938-22%20Intro.pdf.

weblance
January 16, 2014, 11:53 AM
Thats brilliant. That will be just the push I have needed to add a P938, and 22 conversion to my collection. I wonder if they have plans for a P238 22 conversion. That would be perfect, as I already have a 238. Thanks for that bit of info. Interesting.

toivo
January 16, 2014, 12:17 PM
Seeing as I just bought a 238, I'd be very happy to see a .22 conversion for it. Still, I don't think the teeny-tinies are the way to go for a survival pistol that won't have to be carried concealed. Hunting small game with a pocket pistol is going to be a tough row to hoe.

If you want a 9mm/.22 combo for survival, I'd look at something like a Glock 19 or a CZ 75 with conversion kit.

Vern Humphrey
January 16, 2014, 12:25 PM
If you're going that way, think about a .45/.22 conversion kit. The .45 ACP has a lot going for it -- Ed Harris developed a die to make .45 ACP shot cartridges from .308 brass. They will cycle the action and a .45 holds a lot of shot. With an M1911 and a conversion kit, you'd have a potent combination.

If they also made flare rounds for it, it would be an even better survival gun.

kbbailey
January 19, 2014, 05:00 PM
Float Pilot
......what did you choose?

Owlnmole
January 22, 2014, 03:22 AM
I was about to start my own thread about a survival .22LR pistol, good thing I did a search first. Like the OP, my go to "survival" gun is a Marlin Papoose, and I had similar pistol criteria--light and compact but accurate enough to ruin a bunny or squirrel's day.

One thing I've noticed when kicking around options for this is that size and weight don't necessarily correspond to each other. A Ruger SR22 is actually lighters than many smaller guns, for example--bulky but not heavy. So that is a trade-off to consider.

I was also thinking that easy single-shot loading of subsonic rounds or rimfire shotshells might be useful, even when those rounds won't cycle the action. That suggests a Beretta/Taurus tip-up design, but neither company makes the longer-barreled versions of those guns anymore, though I might find one used.

Here's an idea--does anyone make a little tip-up single-shot pistol anymore, something like the old Stevens pocket and target pistols? A modern version ought to be very inexpensive and, I think, would find a ready market for plinking, target shooting and hunting/survival. Interchangeble grips, barrels in varying lengths and calibers, barrel-mounted sights or scope rails would all be easy to arrange and allow folk to dial in what they want. Perhaps we can get Chiappa arms to come up with a "Little Badger" pistol?

Cheers,

Matthew

http://www.cowanauctions.com/itemImages/taa5575.jpg

http://www.cowanauctions.com/itemImages/taa5449.jpg

http://www.redolfiarmi.com/resources/021915173117_b.jpg

Owlnmole
January 22, 2014, 05:41 AM
Another option that might be worth considering, and perhaps more palatable to some than a single shot, is the North American Arms Mini Master, the long-barrelled, larger-gripped, adjustable-sight version of their single-action mini revolvers. They seem pretty bulletproof, come in .22 S/L/LR or .22 Mag with interchangeable cylinders and are certainly light and compact. You could easily mix and match ammo in a single cylinder or have one cylinder set up for one use and the other set up for the other use, say the .22LR with subsonic loads for hunting and maybe the first round loaded with shot in snake country, and the .22 mag with the nastiest rounds you can find for self-defense against predators on four legs or two. The 4" barrel and adjustable, red-and-white insert sights provide plenty of "Ritz cracker" accuracy. Sounds like a great little "survival pistol" to me.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/MG_7395.jpg

Torian
January 22, 2014, 06:27 AM
Of the three, I would suggest the Ruger. Buckmarks are a good gun, but I think the Rugers are tougher and more reliable. The Mosquitos routinely get negative reviews for being picky.

You might also consider the Ruger SR22. My wife traded her MkII for one, and we both find it to be quite nice.
Have a Mosquito. Purchased new in late 2013. It's eaten everything I've thrown at it, and is a good shooter.

Maybe they worked the kinks out
'

hartcreek
January 22, 2014, 07:27 AM
Why carry a 22 in your vest for a survival arm? I would carry something that I could also load shot shell in which would mean buying or loading......

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/empty_shot_capsules.aspx

Owlnmole
January 22, 2014, 08:13 AM
Why carry a 22 in your vest for a survival arm? I would carry something that I could also load shot shell in which would mean buying or loading......

You mean something like this?

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/images/2006/22-wmr-shotshell.jpg

chicharrones
January 22, 2014, 08:54 AM
You mean something like this?

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/images/2006/22-wmr-shotshell.jpg

Yeah, but that is just a super short range mouse/rat killer. In my experience the .38 special version is not much better either.

I guess if someone needs to eat mice, then sure.

Taurus 617 CCW
January 22, 2014, 09:36 AM
I have one main concern about .22 long rifle. At the factory when loading .22 shells, the primer compound is mixed wet which keeps it from detonating until it dries. I have accidentally gotten .22 shells wet and then tried to shoot them. The results were mixed. Some would fire and some would not because the rounds are not completely sealed every time.

If the OP is considering something like the Kel Tec PMR30, I would recommend taking a look at the FN Five-Seven pistol. It holds 20 rounds (or 30 with an extended mag) and is quite accurate to the distances specified. Being a centerfire, detonation will be more reliable. A 100 yard shot could be achieved if necessary.

Vern Humphrey
January 24, 2014, 04:41 PM
Yeah, but that is just a super short range mouse/rat killer. In my experience the .38 special version is not much better either.

I guess if someone needs to eat mice, then sure.
That's why I like the .45. In .45 ACP, Ed Harris developed a die that allows you to make shotshells that cycle the action. In .45 Colt, you can rival a .410 shotgun with handloaded shot shells.

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