Mauser barell swap can I really do it in my shop???


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jeeptim
January 4, 2014, 10:00 PM
Got this Mauser with a shot out barell. I see midway has barells pretty reasonable and was thinking 35 wheelin or 25-06 something a lil different.
So here the question have watched all the youtube vids don't look so hard I can make a clamp for the barell other then go no go gauge what's the hard part ????
Any insight would be very helpful.
I would take it to a gunsmith but the fun is in doing the job. The satisfaction of bringing new life to an abused negelected relic having it look and shoot as good if not better then a gun that money was traded for gives me a warm fuzzy prideful feeling.
So any info you may have experienced or trouble I may run into. And ehat I should look for to make sure the action is worthy of a new barell.
Thanx

Oh yeah my shop. Well set up garage.

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LAGS
January 4, 2014, 10:40 PM
@ JeepTim
You actually need a proper Barrel vise, an Action wrench, a set of Headspace Gages, and a chamber reamer in the caliber you are rebarreling your rifle too.
Now that is all you need unless you run into things like bunged up barrel threads, and then you need a Tap to clean up the receiver threads.
The barrels are on there pretty tight, and trying to take them off with out the proper tools is a recipe for disaster.
You can Twist your action very easily if you dont use an action wrench, and you have to have a Barrel vise to hold the barrel while you take the receiver Off the old barrel, as well as tighten the new barrel.
The replacement barrels are Short chambered, so you have to Carefully Ream them to the proper headspace depth.
There are also cretical dimensions that you should check on your receiver prior to installing the new barrel.
You need a good Depth Micrometer for that.
The Videos make it look so simple, but I think you need to read up on rebarreling a rifle, especially a Mauser.
I have all the tools and it is not a Twist off, Twist On Operation.

And,
If you try to clanp your barrel or receiver in a regular vise, and try to take it apart with a Pipe wrench, just save yourself some time and just go buy yourself a new rifle, because You WILL "ruin" your old receiver.

Jim K
January 4, 2014, 10:43 PM
I don't know how well equipped your garage is, but if you don't have the right barrel vise and receiver wrench, and the old barrel is stubborn, it is easy to twist the receiver like a pretzel.

Also, if the Mauser was made for 8mm, you are going to have to rework the magazine length to handle any cartridge based on the .30-'06, which is about 1/4 inch longer than the 8mm. That involves working on the feed rails and the feed ramp.

If you get a pre-threaded barrel, it will be short chambered, meaning you will need a reamer to finish the chamber and set the headspace and you will need gauges. If you have to use an unthreaded barrel, you will need a lathe to cut threads.

Re-barrelling is one of those jobs that seems simple in theory but can lead to serious problems if done by someone with no experience. (But then so it is heart surgery.)

Jim

LAGS
January 4, 2014, 11:02 PM
@ jeeptim
The Magazine Box is not required to be lenghtened fo either of the calibers 35 Whelen or 25-06, but it is for the 30-06, and the 270 if you use long bullets.
I have both the 25-06 and 35 Whelens that I built on mauser 98 actions as well as .308's, 30-06's and several other calibers.
On the Mid length action like the Yugo 24/47 and 48 the longest caliber you can use is 25-06, but a 25-06 Improved will not work because you can load longer bullets to maximize the cartridges potential. they then won't fit in the magazine correctly.
I build the Mid length actions mostly in .308, .243 and 257 Roberts, but did one in a 25-06.

Jim K
January 4, 2014, 11:21 PM
Well, the spec for the .25-'06 shows a COAL of 3.25", the same as the 8mm Mauser, with 3.34" for both .30-'06 and .35 Whelen. Of course there is no need to follow that in building a rifle for a reloader as the user can choose whatever bullets and seating depth is needed. I know I always lengthened the magazine well for .30-'06 and .35 Whelen; I don't recall what I did for .25-'06, but I had very few of those as it was not an especially popular cartridge at that time.

Jim

LAGS
January 5, 2014, 12:02 AM
@ JimK
The 35 Whelen with a properly seated 250 grain bullet is a Over all length of 3.250.
The bullets could be seated out further if you like but I found no advantage to doing that.
And the factory ammo is loaded the same from what I found.
But moving the front of the magazine box forward is a good idea, and if I was making a rifle for someone else, then I would do that just to give them the advantage of the longest cartridge possible.

jeeptim
January 5, 2014, 02:25 AM
Thank you all for the heads up I think I'm good with getting it apart its just the reaming and the cost of a reamer for a one time deal. So maybe ill take a pass.

LAGS
January 5, 2014, 09:15 AM
@jeeptim.
If you look at the cost of the tools and even going the low cost route like the Wheeler barrel vise and action wrench from Midway, a set of headspace gages, and even if you can Rent a Chamber Reamer it just isnt worth the expense for one rifle.
Plus there was a time when rebarreling a Military Mauser action to a more common hunting caliber, Actually Increases the Value of your old beat up Surplus rifle.
Now, it isn't true.
It seems now, once you sporterize your rifle, no matter how good of job that is done, your rifle isn't even worth the sum of the cost of the parts not even counting what you paid for the rifle to start with, and forget about recouping any of your labor costs or what you had to farm out to a gunsmith.
If you have an Common rifle that is in bad shape, and rebarreling it for your own personel use, then it is worth it, if it is worth it to you as a shooter.

4v50 Gary
January 5, 2014, 10:48 AM
It's not really a do it yourself job.

Take the one week NRA Summer Machineshop program where they'll teach you to rebarrel a rifle. You have to measure the from the front of the receiver to the "C" ring and the subtract .002 for crush depth. If the barrel is already cut for the receiver, then you measure the shank to see if it's too long or needs to be relieved more. Even after you get that perfect, you have to headspace it afterward. This may involve more cutting with a reamer or if it closed on the no-go (or worse, field gauge), then you have to cut one thread and relieve the shoulder and try again.

jeeptim
January 5, 2014, 03:26 PM
So what you all are sayin is no. I tend to agree I have the ability to make a barell clamp and an action tool have torch to loosen it up reinstall but... the reaming is a game stopper. From what I saw and this is why I ask you fellows the barell is all good to go just adjusting the headspace was the issue.
I do trust my fellow H roaders so thank you for keeping me from spending a bunch $$ on a project that wouldent work out.

rcmodel
January 5, 2014, 03:37 PM
have torch to loosen it up That's a big no-no!!

Never heat a receiver with a torch or you will ruin the heat treating!

rc

NCsmitty
January 5, 2014, 04:32 PM
Unless you have some machining skills and familiar with verniers or mics or other measuring devices, it is not really a DIY project for everyone.
It entails much more than just screwing a barrel on an action for a safe, competent job, but you probably knew that already.


NCsmitty

Zeke/PA
January 5, 2014, 04:53 PM
It's not merely unscrewing one barrel and installing another as too many variables exist.
Start with the barrel threads alone: What if you can't screw the new barrel all the way in? Lathe here we come!
THEN there is the headspace concern. Headspace gauges and a reamer will be needed and IMHO the reaming should be done in a lathe/sready rest set-up, where headsace gauges are needed.
I wouldn't attempt this work unless you are confident in your machining/measuring skills and have a THOROUGH understanding of proper headspacing and the ability to achieve the same.

LAGS
January 5, 2014, 06:29 PM
@ jeeptim
I can see by your comments that you are no where near ready to do something like a Barrel Swap.
I hope the advice from all of us has saved you from Ruining a good rifle.
But as I suspected, you have a lot to learn, and I am glad you asked the questions you did.
You can learn from the members on this forum, but there is so much more than any of us can just walk you thru with a simple Tutorial.
I am glad you are inspired to do your own work, and I do hope you persue some things in the future.
But learn all that is involved and the correct way to do things FIRST.
Remember, if it is not done right, like using a Torch to remove a barrel, you could end up holding a Bomb in your hand.
And if you are just trying to do things yourself to save money, then you are looking at it from the wrong perspective.
In the long run, if things are not done correctly, with the correct tools, then you will either ruin your gun, or have to pay someone More Money to get it fixed right.

Jim K
January 5, 2014, 09:51 PM
Hi, LAGS,

I used the SAAMI COAL specs for .35 Whelen, not because I was not aware that factory loads are often shorter but because I would not want to build a rifle that would not handle max spec ammo. If I did a rifle to a "guess and by God" magazine length, what would I tell a customer when his rifle won't feed factory ammo or his new handload jams up?

Someone working on his own gun or working for a friend can know to "only use such and such bullet and seat it to x overall length." But that is not really a good idea for a general gunsmith.

Jim

LAGS
January 5, 2014, 11:00 PM
@ JimK
I look at it the same way as you do, but I do not build rifles for other people, so I build them to my desires.
But I have a 30-06 magazine off a Colombian 98 and one more box that I already lenghtened, plus two spares that I am going to convert to a Hinged floorplate style but havent decided if I am going to lengthen them right now.
But the funny thing is , the Yugo Mauser is in 8mm also , but the Magazine Box is 1/8" shorter than a 98 magazine box, and the 30-06 length is only 1/8" longer than the 98 8mm box inside dimentions.
I convert the Yugo boxes to a Hinged floorplate, but have found no reason to stretch them for a longer cartridge due to the Mid Length action.

Jim K
January 6, 2014, 02:16 AM
Yep, the Yugo is a medium action, either an FN Model 1924 or based on that rifle, which in turn was based on the Mauser Model 1896, which never got off the ground in Germany because the Model 98 was an improvement. Had our troops captured millions of those medium action rifles, I doubt anyone could have converted them to .30-'06!

(Now I am sure that someone will inform me that he routinely converts Yugo 24/47's and 48's to .50 BMG using only a Dremel tool and working blindfolded, but I am not that good.)

Jim

LAGS
January 6, 2014, 08:38 AM
@ JimK
Darn , I can't find the right grinding tip for my Dremel for that conversion. LOL
But when I am back gainfully employed, I do want to take a Yugo out to .358 Winchester.
I have two rifles that could use new barrels and stocks, so what the heck.
I'll just sporterize those and restore the rest.

Jim K
January 6, 2014, 10:52 PM
Just keep back a couple of Yugo 48's; the way they are being cut up they will soon be rarer than Paterson Colts.

Jim

LAGS
January 7, 2014, 12:28 AM
@ JimK
Sorry to say, I sold off the two 48's I had, and kept the 24/47's and have seven I want to totally rebuild as issued.
And I have a couple of beater 24/47's for parts or to make something else out of.
I picked them up a few years back, when the prices were much better, so the cost of the restoration will be offset mostly by just the inflation rate.
Out of the seven, I hope to at least have four that are spot on.

jimmyraythomason
January 7, 2014, 09:55 AM
The Magazine Box is not required to be lenghtened fo either of the calibers 35 Whelen or 25-06, but it is for the 30-06, and the 270 if you use long bullets.
I've built quite a few 30.06 rifles on unaltered Mauser receivers and never had to lengthen any of them to accommodate the longer cartridge. I have lengthened the receiver opening to match a commercial magazine which is longer but wasn't needed when using a standard magazine.

LAGS
January 7, 2014, 12:19 PM
@ Jimmyraytomason
You are correct, they will work, but there is a differance between Working, And Working right.
That is why the commercial magazines are longer and you have to open up the bottom of the receiver , in the same way you have to if you extend a standard Magazine box.
Like JimK pointed out, a rifle should be fit to Handle the FULL Range of Spec'ed cartridges in that caliber, and be able to accept any cartridge up to and including ones that are Maximum Standard length.

jimmyraythomason
January 7, 2014, 12:31 PM
That is why the commercial magazines are longer and you have to open up the bottom of the receiver the commercial magazine boxes are longer to accommodate magnum length cartridges not 30.06 length( unless hand loaded extra long). I currently have 3 Colombian receivers that were standard length chambered in 30.06. One had been opened up the other 2 were not. All three feed factory loaded ammo from 125 grn to 180 grn flawlessly.

LAGS
January 7, 2014, 12:47 PM
@ Jimmyraytomason
The Columbian 30-06 magazine is already 1/8 longer than the standard 98 - 8mm magazine box.

jimmyraythomason
January 7, 2014, 01:24 PM
The Columbian 30-06 magazine is already 1/8 longer than the standard 98 - 8mm magazine box.
Lags, I bought stripped receivers with no magazine boxes. I used standard length 98 bottom metal on (most of)my builds. They are not lengthened and they work perfectly with factory ammo.

rondog
January 7, 2014, 03:23 PM
Just my opinion, but there's reasons why gunsmithing is a specialized profession.

fguffey
January 17, 2014, 02:05 PM
Jeeptim, I am sure you have identified the receiver, the only response I can find that responds to your plan, torch and heat the receiver, that is not an option.
Head space gages, reaming the chamber? It is possible for one person to measure the receiver and then give the measurements to someone across the country. Douglas Barrel sends barrels everywhere with finished chambers. Douglas includes instructions with their finished barrels. It is also possible to have a chamber reamed that fits your receiver, I measure the receiver then ream the chamber.

It would help if the receiver you are going to use could be identified.

F. Guffey

fguffey
January 17, 2014, 02:23 PM
Quote:
The Columbian 30-06 magazine is already 1/8 longer than the standard 98 - 8mm magazine box.

Lags, I bought stripped receivers with no magazine boxes. I used standard length 98 bottom metal on (most of)my builds. They are not lengthened and they work perfectly with factory ammo.
__________________

I purchased 5 Columbian rifles complete but missing the floor plates. If the trigger guard on the 98 was the same trigger guard on the Columbian receivers, why did it take Hosier gun parts 2 years to find floor plates? or asked another way: Why did I waste my time looking for floor plates when all I had to do is replace the trigger guards with 98 type trigger guards?

the answer is another of those things that is not fair, all of my Columbian trigger guards will not fit a 98 and none of my 98 trigger guards will fit my Columbian receivers.

Did I complain? No. I paid $25.00 each for complete rifles less the floor plates. I need 3 more floor plates.

F. Guffey

jimmyraythomason
January 17, 2014, 03:33 PM
why did it take Hosier gun parts 2 years to find floor plates? or asked another way: Why did I waste my time looking for floor plates when all I had to do is replace the trigger guards with 98 type trigger guards?
I could not begin to guess why. I built 4 Colombian Mauser receivers into sporters Two used commercial trigger guards from Brownell's, one used a Gew 98 trigger guard and the other I used a K98 trigger guard. All fit perfectly and are interchangeable. That is my personal experience with the Colombian in 30.06.

LAGS
January 17, 2014, 06:21 PM
From what I have found is, the Colombian Mauser Magazine Box trigger guard is a little different in the front Tang area.
The lock screw is on the Back side of the Action Front Screw, and the tang is a little shorter.
But I think the Floor plated are interchangable for all 98 long actions.
Now the Turk 38 has no lock screws.

fguffey
January 19, 2014, 12:36 AM
I will not assume there is but one Columbian Mauser, I purchased 'a matching set', The floor plates will not fit anything 98, they are too long, a 98 floor plate is too short for my matching set.

I could extend the bracket in the front of the trigger guard as suggested by friends or I could allow them to heat and stretch the short ones etc.. But, I am not in a bind for an action and parts.

The rifles were sold to me in a matching set by a dealer that suggested the rifles were being sold as 'suspect'. I used one barrel and one bolt to test fire 4 of the receivers. The difference in the length of the 4 chambers from the shoulder to the bolt face was .001".

I cut the chambers from the barrels and made chamber gages, I know, FIVE OF THEM? I took two of them to a gun show, got a lot of questions, most questions started with "What's this?"

Helping a friend, he asked if I was interested in more P14s, what a sight, a rack of (8) P14s, all 8 were painted red around the stock and receiver with a white band. I explained to him I thought I owned the only ones in existence. He made it clear the 8 I was looking at were his but I could decide how many I wanted. Then on the way home I thought about it, I haven't finished the matching set.

F. Guffey

LAGS
January 19, 2014, 01:42 AM
I had bought a Colombian Mauser in 30-06 that had all matching numbers, but was sporterized.
So I made a new stock and Customized the rifle. ( I still have the old stock )
When I sold it, the guy wanted one if my Hinged Floor plate conversions on it.
Rather than Modifying the Columbian Magazine box to a Hinged floorplate, I just replaced it with a Mauser 98 magazine box that I had already lengthened and converted to a Hinged floorplate set up with a 1930's style leaver catch that I made.
All I had to do was open up the front tang area on the bottom of the stock and it fit perfectly.
I still have the Colombian Magazine box , and it takes the standard 98 floorplate, even though the box Inside dimention is 1/8" longer than the 98 magazine boxes.

I want to find a P-14 action to build a 7.62x54 Custom Rifle called a Dangur Rifle.
But I can not find a .310 barrel for the conversion or a 7.62x54 Russian Machine Gun barrel to use for the conversion.

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