Gun owners prepare for civil disobediance


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Gophfer
December 22, 2002, 11:33 PM
Can anyone say Molon Labe?

The Canadians may show us the way, or show us what not to do.

Link (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2002/12/19/7884-cp.html)

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Preacherman
December 23, 2002, 01:22 AM
Trouble is, these vocal opponents are simply setting themselves up to be the first targets of the police and enforcement authorities. Much better, I think, to have grassroots resistance and not talk about it! Another option: if the authorities can trace the guns you have from purchase records, previous licenses, etc., why not have a group of people swap guns with each other? They can then say, with total honesty, "No, Officer Friendly, I don't have that gun any more - I disposed of it some time ago." Of course, they would "forget" who, when and where... Since the police would not know who had what guns, they would have a torrid time searching millions of residences!

Gophfer
December 23, 2002, 01:29 AM
I don't disagree, but I do think they have taken the first step by refusing to get in line to register. Many thousands of gun owners have not registered millions of guns. While this one is vocal and making people know there is resistance many more are silent and hidden.

labgrade
December 23, 2002, 01:37 AM
Quick question.

Does Canada have the same "4473" that we have & how's their private transfer recording?

Just curious.

Makes a big difference if they're dealing with a "New Kali-state" versus something a bit more pre-'68 USA regards record keeping.

Don Gwinn
December 23, 2002, 10:41 AM
If you tried that in Illinois, they could throw you in prison for making a transfer without keeping a record of the FOID number, name, address, etc.

Byron Quick
December 23, 2002, 07:06 PM
Don, it would be perfectly legal here in Georgia.

johnr
December 24, 2002, 01:55 PM
Here is The Gun Room at Free Dominion, a fine Canadian site:

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=45

dog3
December 24, 2002, 02:00 PM
Don Gwinn;
Please know, I am not trying to be combative,
just trying to have a discussion. That said;

You state; "If you tried that in Illinois, they could
throw you in prison" et al.

I say, "They" can throw you in prison anyway,
without regard to what is legal and what
isn't. "They" just have to want it bad enough
and be able to back it up with investigation.
Not tangible evidence mind you, just investigation. We all know where it goes
from there. Someone is targeted, innocent
or not, if the case against them can be made
strong enough, and the defense weak enough,
they can be tossed in prison. This whole thing
can be staged and executed like a play. It
has before, it can be again.

Okay, moving along.

Has anyone in Illinois been thrown in prison
for making such a transfer in absence of
other inprisonable crimes?

Where I mean to go is, just that. "They" can
throw you in prison. As to whether "They"
should, or will, or ought to, or as some folks
like to smugly chant, "can't", that is a whole
other issue.

Near as I can tell, and I certainly cannot tell
all, folks who get thrown in prison generally
really turned someone's crank, or really
had it comming.

Every now and again, as we all know, the
anti-s seem to like to "make examples" of
certain cases. Well, look at these cases,
are these you? Are they "us"? They certainly
ain't me. I've certainly seen the opinion expressed at our alma mater, TFL of folks
wishing for a "Real" test case. A case where
an otherwise law abiding citizen is incarcerated (pay attention to this part) in such a manner as to be excessive relative
to these draconian and unconstitutional laws.

Yeah, sure, some of us have been subject
to hassles relative to our keeping and
sometimes bearing arms. Sometimes it has
been outright confrontational. However,
in the end, in my experience, and others
as well. Laws being what they are, are often
enforced by good and well meaning Officers who have more than just a little clue who
the bad guys are.

Once upon a time, in my stomping grounds
a fellow in his own home defended himself
and property with lethal force against a home
breaker. This got ugly really fast. This was
in a so-called CCW friendly state mind you, all you CCW lovers :-) (not a fan of being required to get permission to exercise
my rights) Fellow eventually went down
on manslaughter. Did time, after being wholly
stripped of everything he worked for, being
bankrupted, deep in debt and all that was
finally exonerated. -Which I guess means
in the end, you can protect your property
from the bad guys, but not from the state,
Okay, call a foul !.- This whole fight
was really tough. However, in the end, this
fellow won out against the flop-necked,
quiche-gobbl'n, pinko liberals and made it
much harder for them to ever try to prosecute
such a case in the state of Virginia ever
again. While it really sucked to be him, his
contribution to all of us is profound.

*IF* on the other hand, he had been a speed
freak drug dealer or some such, nothing
would have come of it. Yeah, in the end,
it's hard to keep a good man down, even if
he doesn't have the money to "fight city hall",
if he is right, he is right.

Blackhawk
December 24, 2002, 03:48 PM
Like the Brits and the guy who tried to stop a speeding train by standing on the tracks, the Canadians show us a lot of what not to do....

Tamara
December 24, 2002, 04:24 PM
If enough Canucks tell 'em to get bent, what're they gonna do? Throw the entire province of Alberta in jail?

BigG
December 24, 2002, 04:28 PM
I read that article by J. J. Johnson, "The Problem with White People." It made sense. Civil disobedience seems to be the only hope after watching the continual erosion of liberties in favor of state power. Get in their face often enough and they look for easier prey.

Blackcloud6
December 24, 2002, 06:57 PM
Isn't there a movement growing in one of the Western Provinces (Alberta?) to succeed from the Confederation over the gun control issue? Maybe this will respark Les Quebecois inot ditching Canada and the whole thing will fling apart!

Gophfer
December 24, 2002, 09:13 PM
It would be great if BC and the NW terr. would quit them. I would like to be able to drive to Alaska.

Skunkabilly
December 24, 2002, 11:12 PM
Be interesting to see this happen. Any other provinces in Canada like this?

2dogs
December 25, 2002, 11:06 AM
Perhaps they could place the entire country under arrest, and then leave it to individual citizens to "prove" their innocence. Isn't that how the justice system works under the crown?

nemesis
December 25, 2002, 01:52 PM
Don't look for serious civil disobedience in Canada.

The government will ignore any less than substantial events and will break up any significant events by force.

Canadians have a frontier history and own more guns per person than we do but they have a history of internal pacificism and the few who do resist will be futile. Let it be a lesson to all of us.

And so goes a country that could truly have been great.

G-Raptor
December 25, 2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Don Gwinn
If you tried that in Illinois, they could throw you in prison for making a transfer without keeping a record of the FOID number, name, address, etc.

You mean you didn't sell yours 10 years ago? ;)

Even if you did a "legal" transfer and kept the "required" records, tracking down all the trades would eat up government resources.

However, IMO, the bottom line will still be the same. If the govt believes that you have (had) a gun, and they come for it (them), they are not going to go away simply because you say you sold them. They will assume that you STILL have a gun somewhere and keep coming back until they find it (them) - or until they're afraid to come back.

Southla1
December 25, 2002, 06:14 PM
Well I don't know about disobedience what ever that means but I know what a flat out refusal is.

I own many a firearm that was inherited, bought before GCA 68, bought from a private party etc. I can promise this..............they will never be registered!

May Almighty God help the one that tries to take them away. I am old, I am ornery, and figure I have just about done all I want to do in this life. Like the old revolutionary flag said "don't tread on me".

IIRC there are an estimated 80 million gun owners in the US. If only 2 or 3 million think like I do just how far do you think a confisication will go? Does anyone realize what 2 or 3 million armed angry folks can accompolish? Look at what 180 of the did against over 5000 at a lil place called San Antonio de Bexar about 160 some odd years ago.

twoblink
December 26, 2002, 02:48 AM
Anybody else smell:

"Alberta Molon Labe!!" T-shirts and hats?? :D

The capitalist in me really am thinking about selling our brothers on the other side some Molon Labe shirts, hats, coffee mugs, pins, pens, pencils...

goalie35
December 26, 2002, 02:36 PM
Where's that "Molson Labe" fella? Sounds Canadian enough.

Drjones
December 26, 2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Southla1
IIRC there are an estimated 80 million gun owners in the US. If only 2 or 3 million think like I do just how far do you think a confisication will go? Does anyone realize what 2 or 3 million armed angry folks can accompolish? Look at what 180 of the did against over 5000 at a lil place called San Antonio de Bexar about 160 some odd years ago.

Heh. There are barely 2 million in the ENTIRE armed forces, IIRC. That includes desk jockeys, nurses, and other folks who have not ever, and are not trained for, combat.

Others can elaborate on this more for me, but actual, "fighting" members of the armed forces are small in number.

You also have to question how many would actually carry out orders to spit on the constitution which they swore to uphold. i.e. firing upon and otherwise assaulting innocent US citizens...

The numbers are in our favor by FAR...

And I'd be with ya, Southla!!!

AZTOY
December 26, 2002, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Southla1
IIRC there are an estimated 80 million gun owners in the US. If only 2 or 3 million think like I do just how far do you think a confisication will go? Does anyone realize what 2 or 3 million armed angry folks can accompolish? Look at what 180 of the did against over 5000 at a lil place called San Antonio de Bexar about 160 some odd years ago.

Southla1,

I agree ,but how do we stop a tank or plane?:confused:

johnr
December 26, 2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by AZTOY
Southla1,

I agree ,but how do we stop a tank or plane?:confused:

First off, let me state that we all need to move heaven and earth to see that it does not come to that. Be an activist, and always vote.

That said, the problem you mentioned has been provided for by virtually every military organization ( and many private munitions firms ) across the world. You just need to liberate the correct ordnance.

Southla1
December 26, 2002, 03:20 PM
"I agree ,but how do we stop a tank or plane?"

How many out of 2 or 3 million does it take to break into an army reserve, national guard, etc. armory? Hell down here we have NG members that will HELP us.

See also the post next to yours by drjones. I was in the military but I did not swear allegance to the military or a politician..............I swore it to the constitution.

AZTOY
December 26, 2002, 03:39 PM
[/QUOTE]How many out of 2 or 3 million does it take to break into an army reserve, national guard, etc. armory? Hell down here we have NG members that will HELP us.

See also the post next to yours by drjones. I was in the military but I did not swear allegance to the military or a politician..............I swore it to the constitution.[QUOTE]

Good point, i did not think of that.

rock jock
December 26, 2002, 04:24 PM
"Reality bites," Austin said in an interview. "So here's reality. Ninety per cent of the firearms owners in this country have licences. Seventy per cent have registration certificates already."
The implication here is that if 90% of the gunowners had NOT registered, the govt. would be SOL and have no plan for addressing massive non-compliance. That is our lesson. Unfortunately, you have way too many people with this kind of attitude:
"I'm a former RCMP officer," said the resident of Fletcher's Lake, N.S. "Regardless of how onerous I might think these laws are, they're still the law and it would go against my nature not to abide by them."
Such is the reply of soon-to-be slaves.

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