Rohrbaugh Appraisal.


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Jiml3
March 30, 2004, 01:09 PM
Over the weekend I went to a gun shop on Long Island that carries the
Rohrbaugh. I was curious and wanted to check it out.
My impressions were:
Very nice looking. Excellent workmanship. Very small grip with smooth grips which means when firing, would be hard to control twisting from recoil.
When I held it, too much air space between my hand and the smooth grips.
Smaller hands like a woman's might be more suitable. Did not like the smooth front sight. It, like the gun is stainless steel. As a result, it will be difficult to acquire a decent sight picture in daylight and probably at night. It should have some horozontial grooves or a sight like on S&W snubbies that have a colored sight that help deflect sunlight. Being so small and with such a small grip, I would imagine that it would be a bit difficult to make a proper purchase of the gun in a serious situation.
As far as price goes, that is an individual decision. It sure looks neat and appears to be well made.
Just my opinion!

JimL3

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762x51
March 30, 2004, 03:05 PM
Which shop has one? I was at LISC (one of 4 listed dealers) about a week ago and the guy working the counter didn't even know who Rohrbaugh was. :rolleyes:

P95Carry
March 30, 2004, 03:19 PM
Jim,

Take a peek HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=902454) .... and scroll thru and down - I briefly ''received'' my own R9S on Sunday from Eric himself . and shot some rounds ..... it now has to go the ''dealer route'' to reach my sticky hands!!

I think the thing to remember here is .... we have a 12.8 oz gun - in 9mm cal . yeah .. 9mm!!!! It is as you say beautifully engineered and also has been ''shrunk'' to about the limit ... rather like a P3AT.

It is a gun totally designed for concealment ... it is for the ''ultimate'' situation ... and as such, it requires some technique to use. I had one FTE in my first string of 5 .. limp wristing .. and Eric picked up on that. From then on I honed my grip technique and all was great. If you like .. the ''downside'' re grip, sights .. whatever ... ''goes with the territory'' ..... you gotta lose some to gain some so to speak.

I regard this gun as remarkable .. and it should help solve my summer carry at times. I plan to write up a range report later on when I get mine thru for good .. and find time.

arinvolvo
March 30, 2004, 03:29 PM
Chris, does this gun batter your trigger finger?? or any other part? I just cant see how this gun would be pleasant to shoot.

P95Carry
March 30, 2004, 03:46 PM
does this gun batter your trigger finger Arin .. not at all. And nothing else either really.! I could have gone thru the whole box of 100 rounds Sunday and doubt I'd have been phased at all.

''Pleasant to shoot''? - let's be honest .. I would not expect ''pleasure'' per se ... as I might with say a M27 N frame!:D - it is essential to remember what this piece is all about. I will say tho - it is a ''pleasure'' to shoot in as much as, once ''tamed'' .. re getting grip right etc .. I am aware that here is a miniscule piece, using a halfways decent cal ... and it feels good.

''Pleasant'' is very subjective .. and I would never expect a gun this small to be in quite that category ... but as a tool that will conceal almost in a bodily orifice (:p ) - it is a joy to use, knowing that it is able to ''get the job done''.

Hard to express it any other way! :)

WonderNine
March 30, 2004, 04:02 PM
Is it still a non- +Per?

What ammo is recommended for it? Any specific brands even?

Have they fixed the problem with the magazine catch snagging on things?

P95Carry
March 30, 2004, 04:08 PM
W9 - I did mean to check with Eric re +P .. and forgot!:rolleyes: I do know they have upped the hardness on the barrel and possibly for limited use, +P would be Ok ... but I must check on this.

They have been addressing mag issues but not sure with what specific aspect. I did not pocket the piece the other day so cannot yet comment re the release but from appearance alone ... it did not appear to be emminently snaggable. Time will tell on that one.

Eric had one in each pocket most of the time and seemed to produce one or the other with fluid ease!

Jiml3
March 30, 2004, 10:13 PM
762X51

The shop that it is in is LISC. It doesn't surprise me that the guy behind the counter didn't know about it. he said he is there only on saturdays.
He's a nice guy but thinks anything less than a 45 is a waste.
It's located on the bottom shelf at the back of the room. It is perched on a display pedestal.

To P95 Carry:

As stated at the start of this thread, the opinions I expressed were my personal observations. That included pros and cons. As you state, you have to give up certain things to accomplish what the manufacturer achieved in producing such a small and handsome gun. You appear to be completely sold on it and that is great and I hope it's everything you want it to be. As a member of this board I felt that other people might be interested in hearing what somebody else who has handled it,(without firing it) might have to say. After all, this is selling for $900. and I would like to know as much as possible before making a decision to purchase. The shared opinions of others on this board help in making an educated decision. While you appear to agree with me re: the grip, don't you think that stippled wood grips would be a better choice to attain a better grip? Perhaps that's for the aftermarket people like Hogue Grips. I will look at it again in the future after I know how it holds up.

Good luck.

P95Carry
March 30, 2004, 10:31 PM
Jim,

Your views are valuable ... and often that ''first look'' is what can make people initially interested - or not!!! Then of course .. there is need for further input .. and I hope I and others can help provide that over time.

I am sold on it yeah .. that's true, which is not say that I am trying to view thru rose tinted spectacles!! I think that the things that might be called ''downsides'' are in fact part of what must be accepted to have a piece such as this .. and it sure may not suit everyone .. plus I agree, at the price involved it takes some serious consideration to lay out that much.

For me tho - I do accept what others might call ''downsides'' .... like with any gun .... there are things you can or cannot accept in the package.

As far as the grips go ... well, I guess you are thinking of stippling somewhat like Kel-Tec ... it could be that might be useful. The thing to remember here is - the grips are part of what keeps the package so slim .. plus, the right side is actually part of the gun ... in as much as, it acts as a spring retainer. After much R&D I reckon the carbon fiber was chosen both for weight and strength considerations. They are so thin that I am not sure any other material would do the job, without adding weight and or bulk.

I will try and post whatever useful info I can later on, once I have done a more exhaustive analysis.:)

Marcus
March 30, 2004, 11:06 PM
I was lucky enought to see the Rohrbaughs at the THR shoot and put a few rounds through Jody`s (Thanks again!). They look to be impressively well made little guns. The same kind of quality you see right away when you look at a Freedom Arms revolver. The sights while not perfect are much better IMO than the Keltec P3AT or .32 which are not much smaller (and chamber weaker rounds). It felt better in my hand than the KT .32 which is just too thin to feel good to me. Recoil wasn`t bad at all,muzzle flip was brisk but not objectionable. The trigger was buttery smooth and lighter than expected. Nice nice little gun! The mag base rubbed my little finger a bit but Eric said they were already addressing that on future guns with smoother/more rounded base plates. After shooting it I immediately picked up my KT P-11 to get a direct comparison. Right away I noticed that the KT felt a lot bigger than ever before. ;) The P-11 was easier for me to shoot and hit with BUT A) I have over 9,000rds. through it so I`m really used to it. and B) the Rohrbaugh is much closer in size to a P-32/P3AT than a P-11 which is pretty darn impressive! I see it as basically a 21st century 9mm Seecamp with sights. If I didn`t have it`s general niche filled already and if I had the $$$ I`d really seriously consider one. My dream pocket gun will still have to wait though. Eric said he had no plans to make one in 10mm. ;) Marcus

P95Carry
March 30, 2004, 11:13 PM
Marcus .... glad you got to shoot Jody's ... I must confess, I was so (pleasantly) taken aback by Eric turning up with my gun and Jody's ... I really didn't think of offering it around! Soda was pretty busy tutoring but had I thought I'd have been less selfish.

I shall make sure tho once I have mine for keeps .. it'll go with me to any shoots .. as much as anything so others can see and try it. I know I keep saying it but - it's incredible to squeeze down a 9mm that small!

WhoKnowsWho
March 31, 2004, 12:01 AM
Could someone post pics of this vs. the size of a PM9?

P95Carry
March 31, 2004, 12:11 AM
WKW .. this pic is best I can do for now .... it was taken on my camera by Jody Hudson ... but it appears to be a P32 or P3AT with the R9S and the other I am not certain on tho I think it's the Kel-Tec 9mm.

I forget the designations of some guns .. age ya know! :)


http://www.bedford.net/design/shoot3/march_pa_shoot/comparison_s.jpg

harrydog
March 31, 2004, 08:20 AM
"W9 - I did mean to check with Eric re +P .. and forgot! I do know they have upped the hardness on the barrel and possibly for limited use, +P would be Ok ... but I must check on this."


When I spoke with Eric a couple weeks ago I asked him about that. He said that +P was not recommended. Not to say the gun would explode on you, but it would accelerate wear significantly in such a small package. He said they're getting 1070 - 1075 fps using 115 standard pressure Silvertips. Not bad from a 2-1/2" barrel.

Jiml3
March 31, 2004, 12:04 PM
To P95Carry:

When I referred to the grips, I wasn't thinking of Kel-Tec, I had in mind the NILL stippled wood grips which I have on my Sig P239. I appreciated your
explanation re: the spring in the right side grip. Thanks for mentioning a
point I forgot in my original post about the mag release at the bottom. Good
to hear the manufacturer is trying to address it. It appears he is getting
valuable feedback from you. A smart manufacturer or individual should always look for constructive criticism.
As I stated earlier, I'm still interested but not yet convinced enough to
make a purchase at this time. That said, I will forward to your future posts
on this matter.

Best wishes.

762x51
March 31, 2004, 04:24 PM
Thanks Jiml3. I'll have to go back and find it.

Marcus
March 31, 2004, 10:10 PM
Chris,don`t sweat it. Afterall you let me try your .454 S. Redhawk which I got a real "kick" out of! ;) The guns in the pic are a P-32 (my Dad`s) and a P-11 (mine). :) Marcus

P95Carry
March 31, 2004, 10:24 PM
Thx Marcus .. now I come to think of it ... that P-11 was on the bench you were using when we shot together. Not having owned or shot one .. seems to leave me a tad lacking!!:p

Amazing thing is .. and I have a P3AT ... at a glance, I'm danged if I can tell it or the P-32 apart ..... incredible!

Great day eh .... :)

seanmc42
April 7, 2004, 05:20 PM
Does the 12.8 oz. weight include the (empty) magazine?
I was just comparing the R-9 to it's next closest competitor: The Kahr PM9.

Differences:
Length: 0.1"
Width: 0.018"
Height: 0.3"
Weight: 3.1 oz. / 1.2 oz. depending on the answer to above question.

Note that the R-9 is smaller in every measurement above; the difference is going from an R-9 to a Kahr PM9.

Considering Kahrs have an excellent reputation, are these minor differences worth the difference in $$$ ? I would think the most important of the above would be the weight, with height coming in 2nd. and 3.1 oz would mean a lot more than 1.2 oz.

Just an observation.

[EDIT]:
Obviously, if the weight DOESN'T include the mag, then I can't compare the weights, since I don't know the true empty weight of the R-9.
What I did was compare the empty weights WITHOUT the mags ... almost as good...

Wildalaska
April 7, 2004, 05:43 PM
Spoke to Eric yesterday and I have a "demo" coming up to me this week, if any of ya want to stop by the shop here in Anchorage and handle it :)

Aint for shooting though, its a display...

Here are directions for most of you guys...

Drive to Dawson Creek British Columbia. Get on the Alaska Highway and drive the 1500 miles to the Alaska border. Theres a pay phone there, call me before you drive the remaining 300 miles. If ya stop only for gas you can make it in 2 days.

WildbringanemptybottleanddontspillAlaska

seanmc42
April 7, 2004, 05:55 PM
Hey - I'm near the Northern border of WA - that's not TOO far ;)

P95Carry
April 7, 2004, 05:59 PM
if any of ya want to stop by the shop here in Anchorage and handle it Now there's an invitation guys! Just drop by to see ... WildI'malwayspullingyourlegsAlaska'' ....LOL



Sean ... that weight is mag out. I am not over familiar with a Kahr ... but know of the PM9 being real small. I'm not going purely by comparisons and yeah the R9S is right up there with cost ... but I have fallen for this lil baby and hopefully it will be all I expect. The limited trial I put it thru so far leaves me with no disappointment.

seanmc42
April 7, 2004, 06:40 PM
Aha!
The rohrbaugh site (http://rohrbaughfirearms.com/) shows an image with the gun being weighed - weight WITH empty mag is 14.3 oz!
So, that means the weight difference is actually 1.6 oz.

So, now that we have nailed down the measurement differences, what are the differences in price?

I think I saw something about the R-9 being in the ~$950 range - I assume that's MSRP, and not street price?

What are PM9's going for? I think they're on the order of $300 less...

That a lot of ducats for 1.6 oz. + the .0.018 " + ...

Sprout
April 7, 2004, 07:59 PM
Round here the PM9 seems to be going for $500+

Marcus
April 7, 2004, 10:48 PM
Having shot a Rohrbaugh once (only 5 rounds) and a PM9 (a couple dozen rounds) I`d say they perform much the same. Both have quite a bit of recoil and muzzle flip for the caliber. They feel totally different though. The PM9 is top heavy and has a thin,flat grip that to me doesn`t have much feel. Overall quality is fine. The Rohrbaugh is balanced better with more weight in the hand rather than over it. The grips felt pretty good for a tiny gun,a bit meatier. The overall quality looks and feels truly excellent. That said I find my P-11 much easier to shoot well despite the fact that the trigger is nowhere near as good. Of course I have over 9,000 rounds through this one... Recoil is much more tolerable and if I manhandle it I can rip off pretty accurate rapid fire. Of course it`s quite a bit bigger and too large to be a true pocket pistol (for me anyway). Marcus

Jiml3
April 8, 2004, 01:52 PM
To respond to the question of price, Rohrbaugh is going for $900.00
and the Kahr PM9 is going for $540.00. That's actual price from one of the more reasonable gun shops on Long Island, NY where both guns come from. The Rohrbaugh for the present time anyway will be holding the high price tag.

sgt127
April 8, 2004, 02:12 PM
Hmmm. I have a PM9. I only shoot non +P in it. I am absolutly impressed with its form, function and concealability. I'm not sure the R9 actually has any real advantadge over the PM9, the dimensions are so close. But, for some reason, I really want the R9. I don't know if its the "I have one and you don't" thing, maybe I just like the idea of a really well machined piece of metal over an injection molded piece of plastic...Every time I decide to order one, I take a few deep breaths, wait a week, shoot the PM9 and carry it and the urge fades again. I don't think I can really justify getting one to replace the PM9, but, more power to you guys that can, it certainly appears to be a very well made piece of machinery with associated pride of ownership.

(I think I said about the same thing about a Chris Reeve Sebenza a few years ago on Bladeforums....Wound up getting one anyway and love it, best folding knife I've ever owned.....Sigh)

P95Carry
April 8, 2004, 02:29 PM
Sgt ... I vacillated a while but went in with both feet! I don't have a PM9 .. just a P3AT .. and that is, for what it is, a useful tool. But still not what I want for ultimate pocket carry.

I have always been in engineering and I think that has much to do with my admiration for the R9 .... it also helps me understand why the cost is so high .. the R&D costs are I can guess with some certainty ... astronomic!

Mine is soon to be on the way .. just slightly delayed whilst they implement a small mag alteration. Once I have it here ... I intend when I can find/make the time ... to try and do a fairly exhaustive range test and then a report. Hopefully some chono info too and as objective an analysis as I can ..... which should hopefully help any fence-sitters.:)

SodaPop
April 9, 2004, 01:50 PM
Its kinda funny how I can invite two guys to a gathering, and get to meet Mr. Rohrbaugh, and never get to fire any of their firearms.


Kinda says something about me doesn't it.:( ;)

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