Drop in bump fire trigger


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Ryanxia
January 14, 2014, 12:47 PM
Anyone else seen this? Drop in 'bump fire' trigger. Let's you have semi auto and bump fire. 4.5lbs match trigger. NP3 coated. Like the Sig Sauer stabilizing brace it comes with a compliance letter from the ATF.
I can't wait to get my hands on one. Thinking of putting it in a 'pistol' AR with the Sig stabilizing brace. I'm sure there will be a lot of people wanting one.
Price is pretty high though.

Video of it in action on their homepage.
http://tacfirecon.com/

EDIT: This trigger + belt fed AR15 upper. :D

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lpsharp88
January 14, 2014, 01:04 PM
Now that is pretty dang cool! Like you said, it is expensive. Don't think I'd get one, but it sure is neat

clance
January 14, 2014, 01:04 PM
Ya! Already put my order in for one, suppose to be sometime in the first quarter that the begin production/shipping, can't wait!

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/stmichps/a108a128-fca8-4cf6-9ae3-5845865ad22f.jpg

And while $500 is expensive, $20,000 for a register select-fire sear group is just outrageous. Thank you GWH Bush! :cuss:

Potatohead
January 14, 2014, 01:06 PM
That's bad to the bone. Surely they will ban these. Hopefully one of these school shooters dont get their hands on one. how much is it? (I watched some of the vid but didnt click around the link)

Edit: Duh I see the price now.

lpsharp88
January 14, 2014, 01:08 PM
How does it work though? The website just says that it uses the force from the bolt to reset the trigger. So do you just keep the trigger pulled back?

Robert
January 14, 2014, 01:10 PM
I'd much rather spend $200 on a good single stage trigger and the rest on ammo or components and be able to put every single round right where I want it. Not saying it wouldn't be fun, but it does nothing for me.

Potatohead
January 14, 2014, 01:12 PM
Looks like he just holds the trigger down in the video.

Ryanxia
January 14, 2014, 01:19 PM
You can see in the video he just holds the trigger down but it does actually reset. I believe it uses the force of the buffer 'slamming home' to help reset the trigger according to one review.

Seems like it's going to be a nice trigger. I'm definitely going to try to get one to play around with it. Only thing that stinks is for now you have to use their selector switch for it to work (so I've heard) so no lefty switch for me :)

Ryanxia
January 14, 2014, 01:21 PM
I'm not sure why the mods moved this to the rifle section as I'm more interested in it being for a pistol but oh well.

Queen_of_Thunder
January 14, 2014, 01:29 PM
The complete lower is going for $990 here in a LGS

Ryanxia
January 14, 2014, 01:38 PM
The complete lower is going for $990 here in a LGS
Gouge much? lol.

Schwing
January 14, 2014, 01:44 PM
I have seen these in action and they look like a heck of a lot of fun. A couple of the guys at my local range were using one of these recently. Having said that, I noticed that they ran out of ammo pretty quick and had brass spread across 6 bays of shooters.

horsemen61
January 14, 2014, 01:50 PM
Ehhh nice and all but not for me :)

Ranger Roberts
January 14, 2014, 02:55 PM
They look pretty cool. I have a bump fire stock on one of my AK's just for fun, this tac con trigger looks like it's easier to use. I'm just afraid that the ATF will do an "about face" on their decision. It wouldn't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last!

Only thing that stinks is for now you have to use their selector switch for it to work (so I've heard) so no lefty switch for me

So I guess there would be a third position? It would have a safe, semi and auto mode?

Edit: The more I think about it, if you are dropping this trigger into a new build, check out Spike tactical. I think their lowers have markings for all three selector settings.

Ryanxia
January 14, 2014, 03:47 PM
Yes Roberts it has a 3 position selector just like the good ol days :)

From what I've read the the ATF only did an 'about face' when the designs were drastically changed from the original prototype the company sent them for evaluation. I had the same question when the Sig stabilizing brace came out.

Ranger Roberts
January 14, 2014, 04:31 PM
Yes Roberts it has a 3 position selector just like the good ol days

I'll take it!

The only reason I mention about the ATF doing an about face is because of the Atkins Accelerator. It would suck to shell out $400 bucks to have the trigger become contraband.

Rusty Luck
January 14, 2014, 04:39 PM
That is really awesome! I don't need one but I sure want one.

KansasSasquatch
January 14, 2014, 05:07 PM
If I had the money I'd be all over that, and drop it into a gas-piston POF-16. It'd be an awesome combination. Expensive combo, sure, but not near as expensive as the "real deal." It'd take deep pockets to feed it on a regular basis. But if the "match grade" semi position is nice then it would still be a good/fun option even if you rarely use the "rock'n'roll" position on the selector.

Walkalong
January 14, 2014, 05:48 PM
Fun? Yes.

Expensive to feed? Yes.

Cheaper than an NFA item? You bet!

Practical? Not particularly, at least for 99% of us.

JMHO. :)

Mike1234567
January 14, 2014, 06:01 PM
I don't need such a thing and never will. It might be fun for awhile but the cost of ammo would make the "fun factor" disappear very quickly. Semi-auto is fine with me and... from those people I've seen shooting full-auto... semi is far more accurate and "nearly" as fast. YMMV...

SeanMTX
January 14, 2014, 06:15 PM
Seems like it's getting mixed reviews at this year's Shot Show.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/14/perspective-tac-con-3mr/

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/13/impressions-tac-con-3mr-full-auto-trigger/

Sam1911
January 14, 2014, 06:21 PM
Thank you GWH Bush!Uhhhh. What the heck? :scrutiny:

Telekinesis
January 14, 2014, 06:39 PM
Maybe he was thinking of Reagan? :confused:

Sam1911
January 14, 2014, 06:57 PM
Could be. Some folks blamed him for the whole thing. Usually they don't know the whole story.

KansasSasquatch
January 14, 2014, 07:24 PM
I don't need such a thing and never will. It might be fun for awhile but the cost of ammo would make the "fun factor" disappear very quickly. Semi-auto is fine with me and... from those people I've seen shooting full-auto... semi is far more accurate and "nearly" as fast. YMMV...
Semi more accurate? Probably on the majority of rifles. But that's why I mentioned a POF-16. I don't own one but I've put enough rounds through one to know that in rapid fire most people yankin on the trigger would be less accurate than a full auto (or simulated full auto system like this one) POF-16. Out of the box those rifles feel like shooting a .22lr. Recoil is almost non existent. I may just have to mention this trigger to the owner of that POF-16, I know he was interested in a Slide Fire stock, he'd probably run out and buy this.

W L Johnson
January 15, 2014, 07:52 AM
Friend of mine pre-ordered one and it already shipped, suppose be be here in a day or two.

Lloyd Smale
January 15, 2014, 09:06 AM
id order one tomarrow if it were a couple hundred bucks cheaper.

Ryanxia
January 15, 2014, 09:20 AM
From what I've seen there is a technique to it but once you understand what that is it doesn't look too hard. Having played paintball for many years with the electronic triggers and always working your fingers to get the most shots off quickly on a very light trigger I don't think I'd have a problem picking up on this. Personally I think it's a huge leap in the right direction. Let's face it full auto is in the past, it's dead, let's move on to the next best thing. Technology will advance it and improve on it in the years to come. We've gone from hooking your thumb in your belt loop to a drop in trigger :)

I watched a range video at SHOT last night of two guys trying it out and they couldn't make it work, then afterwards they realized they had it in semi auto position :)

Mike1234567
January 15, 2014, 06:22 PM
If I ever "really" want full-auto then I'll just buy the tax stamp.

Sam1911
January 15, 2014, 06:24 PM
;) T'aint the $200 tax stamp that will get ya. It's the $15,000 - $20,000 for a transferable M-16 that will get ya.

Mike1234567
January 15, 2014, 06:45 PM
;) T'aint the $200 tax stamp that will get ya. It's the $15,000 - $20,000 for a transferable M-16 that will get ya.
Huh?????

SeanMTX
January 15, 2014, 06:55 PM
Huh?????

The guns themselves are outrageously expensive. The $200 NFA stamp is barely on the radar as an expense given the cost of either a drop in sear ($4000-$8000, and you run the risks of non-registered fakes) or a full rifle...in the range SAM1911 mentioned.

HOOfan_1
January 15, 2014, 08:00 PM
Register was closed in 1986, so civilian legal full autos are kind of rare

Sam1911
January 15, 2014, 08:23 PM
Huh?????Yeah, since the Registry was closed in '86, there are only so many full-auto guns that can ever be sold to private citizens. (Something like 400,000 legal, registered machine guns in the whole US.) Some of those, maybe 20,000 of them are M-16s that were in private hands before the registry closed. Only those 20,000 can be sold among citizens, so if 500,000 gun owners would like to buy one (let's say), there are 25 buyers standing in line to purchase each one available.

Owner one paid $1,000 for it in 1985. Prospective owner 2 offers him double his money. Prospective owner 3 says, "I'll pay $5,000." And on it goes until the pool of folks with money to spend has bought and sold back and forth to some balance point where there aren't any more buyers willing to pay any more to own one of these scarce, in-demand rifles. That balance point hovers somewhere around the $15,000+ range for real M-16s. Other designs, like the MAC-11, for example, aren't worth nearly so much to the pool of potential buyers, so they get bought and sold for more like $4,000 each. Even though most folks look at the design and consider it a $300 gun, in real terms.

Something really impressive like an original M1 Thompson that saw combat in WWII might go for more like $40,000. I've seen price tags for very scarce stuff (like a real MAG-58, precursor to our M-240) at more than $65,000.

As other said, you can buy a registered "Drop In Auto Sear" or "Lightning Link" that will make an AR-15 run full-auto for under $10,000 probably, but that's a pair of small pieces of metal and a pin, plus the registration paperwork, that cost more than some cars. And if they break badly, you're out the purchase price.

All that to say, full-auto weapons are out of the picture entirely for most of us, even if we'd be willing to file the forms and pay the tax to have a registered one. The cost to buy the scarce, hotly in-demand gun is just too high. These "fake-auto" kits are a way that the average shooter could get some full-auto trigger time without taking out a mortgage or selling his car to do it.

clance
January 15, 2014, 08:57 PM
That's bad to the bone. Surely they will ban these. Hopefully one of these school shooters dont get their hands on one. how much is it? (I watched some of the vid but didnt click around the link)

Edit: Duh I see the price now.
The current cost is $500.

jrdolall
January 15, 2014, 09:12 PM
I may have to order one. It will be cool to see how well it works. I have the bump stock and it is fun to shoot but I really rarely use it other than to demonstrate and let people try it out.

Even with Tula ammo at $.25 per round it gets real expensive real fast.

Would it be possible to make this work with a 22 conversion kit?

Ohen Cepel
January 15, 2014, 09:18 PM
Neat, but not for me.

If I'm in a bad spot and need something for defense I likely won't be standing and I'm leery about this things working in the prone. Plus, I prefer aimed fire.

Nothing against anyone who wants one, rock on.

Ryanxia
January 15, 2014, 10:27 PM
Since the bolt carrier group assists in resetting the trigger I think it would work fine in prone. That being said, I agree it's more of an enjoyment factor.

And as has been mentioned, the tax stamp is the smallest cost of an actual full auto and even then you're limited to the 'old stuff'. :)

gonefishin1
January 15, 2014, 11:19 PM
Wow I want one. Hmm lets see what kind of tax return I get lol.

barnbwt
January 16, 2014, 12:28 AM
"Let's face it full auto is in the past, it's dead, let's move on to the next best thing."
This doodad is itself evidence you are flat wrong :cool:. Using the bolt carrier (or recoil, or whatever) to positively reset the trigger is mechanically identical to what full auto does (only to the disconnector, of course), so for the ATF to bless this, in the Age of the Internet, when they know it will proliferate and be copied instantaneously, is really something new. When at the same time "wrist braces" are being accepted on pistols, pistols can be turned into rifles and back, angled foregrips are permitted on pistols, and unregistered suppressor baffles will be treated as a barrel extension/flash hider? The ATF has actually unclenched its fists greatly in the years its been without a sycophant at the helm. I also think they will have a hard time closing them again in the currently gun friendly climate (don't say it isn't; a school shooting like Newtown anywhere else would result in nothing less than widespread confiscation of most if not all firearms)

TCB

W L Johnson
January 16, 2014, 08:15 AM
"Let's face it full auto is in the past, it's dead, let's move on to the next best thing."
This doodad is itself evidence you are flat wrong :cool:. Using the bolt carrier (or recoil, or whatever) to positively reset the trigger is mechanically identical to what full auto does (only to the disconnector, of course), so for the ATF to bless this, in the Age of the Internet, when they know it will proliferate and be copied instantaneously, is really something new. When at the same time "wrist braces" are being accepted on pistols, pistols can be turned into rifles and back, angled foregrips are permitted on pistols, and unregistered suppressor baffles will be treated as a barrel extension/flash hider? The ATF has actually unclenched its fists greatly in the years its been without a sycophant at the helm. I also think they will have a hard time closing them again in the currently gun friendly climate (don't say it isn't; a school shooting like Newtown anywhere else would result in nothing less than widespread confiscation of most if not all firearms)

TCB
Tin foil hat on

The paranoid part of my brain smells a trap, they let them get out there and are waiting for someone to use one in a shooting and afterwards declare that since all AR-15s can be converted to full auto start AR-15 collecting. F&F USA

Tin foil hat off

I usually laugh at this kind of conspiracy stuff.

Ryanxia
January 16, 2014, 11:03 AM
barnbwt - it's not identical just similar. You're still pulling the trigger each time just a lot faster, you can't just get an iron grip on the trigger and hold it down like a full auto. Also the rate of fire is I believe 2/3 that of true full auto.
You're right though that this and the stabilizing brace being approved are pretty big game changers.

BP Hunter
January 16, 2014, 11:51 AM
Neat, cool. but it's like spending/burning $15 in a few seconds for....fun. But hey, if you can afford it and have not anything else to do with your money, then why not.

W L Johnson
January 16, 2014, 04:26 PM
May have a chance to try out my friends soon, he just installed it.

Ryanxia
January 16, 2014, 04:56 PM
May have a chance to try out my friends soon, he just installed it.
Take a video and share some feedback if you do.

W L Johnson
January 16, 2014, 05:40 PM
Take a video and share some feedback if you do.
Ex kept the video camera.

tyeo098
January 16, 2014, 05:47 PM
Ex kept the video camera.
She kept your cell phone?

W L Johnson
January 16, 2014, 06:04 PM
She kept your cell phone?
Plan Jane simple phone. New video camera money keeps getting spend on guns. Beside, it's a small chance anyway for me to be there.

justice06rr
January 16, 2014, 08:52 PM
If you can afford that $500 trigger, you can afford the ammo to burn.

Or just reload your ammo.

Another thing people forget, you don't always have to do rapid fire. Maybe do 3 or 4 mag dumps then go back to semi.

M2 Carbine
January 16, 2014, 09:15 PM
All that to say, full-auto weapons are out of the picture entirely for most of us, even if we'd be willing to file the forms and pay the tax to have a registered one. The cost to buy the scarce, hotly in-demand gun is just too high.
Even the cost of the gun is overshadowed by the ammo cost. My M2 Carbine burns roughly $280 a minute, or $16,800 in ammo an hour.

A few days of playing around full auto can get a little expensive. :D

stressed
January 16, 2014, 09:28 PM
I saw this, very cool. Little of topic but Question for the AR pistol guys.. since there is no real barrel limit length on a pitol, why don't you use a 14.5" M4 carbine barrel or standard A2 length barrel? You are destroying your ballistics with the 10" and shorter barrels. 9mm Carbine packs more punch then .223 with that short of barrel, not to mention the worthless blast and noise. And it would be still legal to carry of have in vehicle under ccw.

Ryanxia
January 17, 2014, 08:59 AM
I saw this, very cool. Little of topic but Question for the AR pistol guys.. since there is no real barrel limit length on a pitol, why don't you use a 14.5" M4 carbine barrel or standard A2 length barrel? You are destroying your ballistics with the 10" and shorter barrels. 9mm Carbine packs more punch then .223 with that short of barrel, not to mention the worthless blast and noise. And it would be still legal to carry of have in vehicle under ccw.
I don't believe you're destroying your ballistics with a 10" barrel. The bullet is stabilized within those 10" and I believe you're only gaining velocity for every inch you add after that.
Besides for my 'pistol' AR with an eotech 200yrds would be max anyways. (pistol w/ Sig stabilizing brace)

As to the cost of going PEW PEW PEW PEW, everyone usually wants to try it so you tell them to bring their own ammo and everybody has fun without breaking your wallet.

RussellC
January 17, 2014, 09:07 AM
There isnt much of an about face to do. The trigger is pulled each time and reset. This is not full auto, same reasoning for the slide fire stocks. They have seen these products and how they work, and they include a letter stating not in violation. To outlaw these would basically be to out law semi auto guns entirely....UT OH!

Fleetman
January 17, 2014, 09:44 AM
It does look fun.....the rate of fire seems a but slow though compared to a Slidefire stock.

Collector0311
January 17, 2014, 09:54 AM
Started a thread about these a while ago, glad to see it's still I interest to some. My buddy's wife got him one fore Xmas so when it comes in I'll try to post a review or somethin.

Saw a question a few posts back that hadn't been answered and I've got the same question.
22lr conversion? Any foreseeable problems using a .22 upper with this type of product y'all think?

If not, I'm buying bricks of it and a trigger and you won't hear from me for a while!

Walkalong
January 17, 2014, 10:16 AM
.22 LR would be fun.

W L Johnson
January 19, 2014, 01:05 PM
Okay my friend with the trigger made it out to the range.
Wasn't able to go myself but he shot some video. He says he thinks that with a little practice he should be able to speed it up a bit more. Also stated he greatly prefers this over a bump fire stock. We're going to try to get together and try out a 22 conversion kit with it since I'm the one with the kit.

Video
http://s379.photobucket.com/user/ROC_Death/media/IMG_06051_zps7792c6e0.mp4.html

stressed
January 25, 2014, 11:57 PM
Okay my friend with the trigger made it out to the range.
Wasn't able to go myself but he shot some video. He says he thinks that with a little practice he should be able to speed it up a bit more. Also stated he greatly prefers this over a bump fire stock. We're going to try to get together and try out a 22 conversion kit with it since I'm the one with the kit.

Video
http://s379.photobucket.com/user/ROC_Death/media/IMG_06051_zps7792c6e0.mp4.html
That looked the same if not slower then rapid pull of the trigger in semi auto

forindooruseonly
January 26, 2014, 01:41 AM
I'm pretty sure I can just pull the trigger that fast...

It looked downright lethargic compared to a real full auto AR.

TIMC
January 26, 2014, 09:10 AM
I had some disposable cash and nothing to do with it so I ordered one to try in my M-4gery. We'll see how she goes when it gets here.

W L Johnson
January 26, 2014, 11:50 AM
I'm pretty sure I can just pull the trigger that fast...

It looked downright lethargic compared to a real full auto AR.
Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed too, he said he thinks it'll be faster after some practice so we'll see.

Jnitti1014
January 27, 2014, 12:10 AM
I have one of these and it has the potential to be about as fast as a geissele s3g or sd3g trigger (both of which I also have). Basically if you can pull the trigger fast enough the short assisted reset along with the recoil allows simulated full auto. It's actually a good thing that it's not as fast as full auto, as I found my rmr was able to stay on target better than a full auto gun.

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