General Consensus on KEL TEC PF-9


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loose noose
January 18, 2014, 06:05 PM
Seriously considering carrying a sub compact 9mm instead of my .380. I've looked at the KEL-TEC PF-9, and reviewed several numerous you tubes, and it seems like a toss up as far as actually purchasing one.( due to reliability) Some Yea and others No go. I'd like to see what you folks have to say. I'm familiar with the Ruger, however I don't like the safety on a DAO semi auto or the loaded chamber indicator. I really haven't found any quite as concealable as the PF9. Any suggestions would be very much welcome.

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BigWoolyBanjo
January 18, 2014, 06:17 PM
I wanted more caliber for pocket carry than my P3AT, so I bought the PF9 and a Galco pocket holster. It's a little larger than the P3AT, but still conceals fine in a front pocket.

It's very reliable (as long as you don't put anything Winchester in it), and I trust my life with it.

It's definitely not pleasant to shoot at all. But, there's a trade off between concealability and pleasure to shoot.

At $300 you can't go wrong trying it!

-Jeff

celem
January 18, 2014, 06:41 PM
Seriously considering carrying a sub compact 9mm instead of my .380. I've looked at the KEL-TEC PF-9, and reviewed several numerous you tubes, and it seems like a toss up as far as actually purchasing one.( due to reliability) Some Yea and others No go. I'd like to see what you folks have to say. I'm familiar with the Ruger, however I don't like the safety on a DAO semi auto or the loaded chamber indicator. I really haven't found any quite as concealable as the PF9. Any suggestions would be very much welcome.

I have a kel-tec p3at that just came back from the factory repair service. I think the problems with Kel Tec stem from reports by people who have a lemon. That is the problem they either produce a great one or a lemon. The good news is that if you get a lemon they will make it right at no cost. My pistol had to go back to the factory twice before they got a right. Now it is perfect no failures, shoots like a gem 100%. So if you buy one don't worry, they will make it right.

Nom de Forum
January 18, 2014, 07:13 PM
Mine work great. YMMV. The top of the grip/beaver tail is so rough it abrades the web of my hand. I fixed that with self-adhesive synthetic grip material the name of which I don't remember. If you buy one, you may want to buy another. One to shoot for proficiency and one to carry. These guns are not very durable so I don't fire my carry piece very often or much. Their lack of comfort and durability is more than made up for in concealment comfort. The price is reasonable for what you get.

MICHAEL T
January 18, 2014, 07:21 PM
Love mine over 500 trouble free rounds It a bit of a bear with +P but I stay mainly with the 115 gr HP. Read a lot of people complain about the heavy 140 gr ammo.

MedWheeler
January 18, 2014, 07:22 PM
Mine is my EDC and has been since April of 2010. Not a pleasant piece to spend extended sessions firing with, but it's definitely a carry-oriented piece. Mine has seen maybe 500 rounds, and has had no malfunctions. It was used when I bought it, though, so I cannot speak for its performance prior to it becoming mine.

TennJed
January 18, 2014, 07:28 PM
good, dependable carry gun. No frills and not refined. Kinda "feels cheap" to me, but the one I owned preformed great

JB357MAG
January 18, 2014, 07:32 PM
Mine was a complete horror show.

There are better choices for a bit more money.

Kahr CM9.

Jimmy

loose noose
January 18, 2014, 09:01 PM
I've shot a buddy's PF9 about a year ago I don't believe the recoil was all that bad, however he hadn't shoot it that much, and neither did I. I was wondering about the durability more than anything else.

I would think 500+ rounds thru it would be an indicator of its durability, as it definitely isn't a range gun per se. I know I can pick up a new in the box for right at $240 plus tax, at the lgs I work part time at. I haven't paid that little for a firearm in quite some time.

Any way I thank all of you who replied.

wlkjr
January 18, 2014, 09:36 PM
I liked everything about it............until I shot it. I couldn't get mine to function and didn't reload at that time. Had I been more patient, I might still have it. Sold it to purchase a Nano and feel it was better choice.

sig228
January 18, 2014, 09:48 PM
Had one, was very reliable but not fun at all to shoot. Too much bite for me and trust me, thats a lot for me to say since recoil rarely bothers me. Not quite as bad as 357 in a snubbie, but certainly not a gun to take to the range for an all day shoot. It is probably the thinnest 9mm out there and concealed very well. So if you want a gun to be carried a lot and shot very little, its perfect. Btw, ignore all those stupid youtube videos putting this one down. I ended up trading mine for a Ruger Mark III. Now that's fun.

snooperman
January 18, 2014, 10:17 PM
I have the pf9 and have over 2000 rounds through it. Mostly my reloads and Winchester & Remington ammo through it. I do not recall any jams with this gun. For the money it is a good carry gun. It is not a pretty gun but it does what it was designed for very well. A good gun for the money from a company that stands behind their products with excellent customer service. I also have a Kahr PM9, which is more than twice the price of the Keltec pf9, and trigger is excellent. The Keltec is thinner and lighter in weight and conceals better for me than the Kahr in waist-band holster or pocket. Both are equally reliable but I prefer the Keltec over the Kahr. The Keltec pf9 recoil is sharper but it does not bother me as I shoot it frequently here at my farm range. I carry 115 gr Speer Gold Dots in it and trust my life with it. I also carry a 380 Ruger LCP in the summer as well or as back-up. I have shot many different 9mm "pocket" guns here at my range from relatives and friends and all are good guns. But , for the money, I like the PF9 the best. Good luck in your search. Snoop

GBExpat
January 18, 2014, 10:37 PM
I bought my PF9 in Aug'07 and carried it almost everyday for 6 years. With pinky extensions on the mags, an inner tube wrap on the grip and a Northwood replacement trigger, I found it to be light, flat, accurate, reliable and comfortable to shoot. Prior to the Northwood trigger installation it was all of those things but not as comfortable to shoot. ;)

In Aug'13 I bought an XDs45 and that is now my regular carry piece, but I still often swapout the XDs45 for the PF9 when leaving the house, dependent upon what I am wearing and/or where I am going.

TanklessPro
January 19, 2014, 01:22 AM
Recoil is a beast. The group I shoot with have named them " the devil gun". It is not a range toy for most. Now for the good parts. It conceals very good because of the thin width. It goes bang every time.
Funny thing is everyone in the group has one. :D

Cowboybebop
January 19, 2014, 02:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YZ3j_Rf1DI

With that said - Nutnfancy raves about them.

snooperman
January 19, 2014, 08:36 AM
Whatever you do, stay away from foreign ammo. A friend bought a PF9 and had problems with his gun. He was using ammo made in Brazil, I believe MagTech, and also Korean stuff. Stay with Winchester, Remington, and Federal as their brass is made for it. Or buy reloads with that brass. I have shot many small autos and own them. Three things to do, 1. Keep them cleaned and well lubed 2. Use good ammo-"the good stuff" not cheap junk 3. Use a very firm grip when shooting. If recoil is a problem, get a good pair of shooting gloves or put a Pachmayr grip sleeve on it.

bigfatdave
January 19, 2014, 08:54 AM
Mine is reliable with various common HP loads and brass-case ball ammo.
(I've never tried steel/Al cases)

It isn't a "fun gun" to shoot, in fact it is a snappy little bastard, particularly with defense loads. I'm not particularly recoil averse, either. And I like slim pistols.

It isn't a target gun, but the sights are workable and you can learn the trigger with some practice.

I got the Twisted Industries .22lr conversion, which allows practice with less recoil.

Some people have reported horror stories, I believe them but have not experienced it. I have various KT products and mine all work.

Bottom line - they're affordable, light, and need some testing to establish reliability.
They're also a bit overspecialized, treat them as carry guns that you shoot once in a while for proficiency, not range toys. Some need a bit of external dehorning on the polymer parts, mine didn't.

Addendum to bottom line - it turns out that I can easily conceal much more gun than the pf9, so I rarely carry it, except when I want a pocket gun.

snooperman
January 19, 2014, 10:37 AM
I also carry a 357 magnum snubby revolver, the Colt Magnum carry, and it kicks far more than the PF9, that I have. When shooting these guns I usually limit the number of rounds at the range to 30-35 at a time , once a month or so. "Shoot little but carry a lot".

loose noose
January 19, 2014, 10:44 AM
Cowboybehop, I saw that video, didn't think too much of it, as the manner in which the second guy was holding the firearm. Note he was guiding the left side of the slide with his left index finger, therefore impeding the recoil of the slide when firing, if the target were shown I'll bet all of the rounds he fired went off to the right. JMHO. But that is one of the several negative you tube videos I was referring to in my opening statement. Thanks any way for your input.

Alex918
January 19, 2014, 11:23 AM
I know a few guys that have one and they love it. No problems with theirs.

bannockburn
January 19, 2014, 11:49 AM
I had one a few years ago and while it was fairly well made and reliable, it was just a bit too large for pocket carry. I ended up trading it for a P3AT and have been very satisfied with its performance.

SIGLBER
January 19, 2014, 12:01 PM
Had an early one with problems. Kel Tec is a great company though. They go out of their way to make things right. Once fixed good to go. Have owned 2 P32's, P3AT, PF9, and still own a Chrome S2K. Had to have some work done on the PF9. But again fixed. Local LEO used his P-11 to get a pitbull off a little girl here awhile back. He trusts his life to it daily. Now have the Ruger LC9.
Most of the pocketable 9's have long DAO triggers for safety. I don't mind them because I started off with DAO revolvers. If you want something with a different trigger probably the SIG P938 would be something to look at. They've had their share of problems though and are pricey compared to sme of the other guns. Like I said most of the little 9mm's are DAO. Hope you find a good fit for your needs.

loose noose
January 19, 2014, 02:46 PM
Think I'll go down tomorrow morning and buy that PF9 at my LGS. I do believe I'm going to enjoy it. Especially with the customer service everyone claims it has. Even with tax OTD it should run under $300.00 as I've already been told $240.00 + tax.

I'll keep ya all informed of what I think about it, I've got about 200 rounds of 115 grn. Federal, as well as Winchester ST HP, and a bunch of reloaded 115 grn. ammo that I reloaded a few years ago for my Beretta 92fs. I'll go down and test all of that stuff and let ya all know what I think. Again I thank everyone of you for your input.

351 WINCHESTER
January 19, 2014, 02:52 PM
If you get one that works you should be good to go. If you get a lemon, they will make it work (most of the time). A good friend bought a new k/t .380 and after 2 trips to Cocoa the gun still jammed. The sad thing is he traded a perfectly good p32 for the .380.

HexHead
January 19, 2014, 02:58 PM
It has a proven track record.

RBid
January 19, 2014, 04:54 PM
Had one a couple years ago. 204 failures to extract in 500 rounds fired. Contacted Kel Tec. They sent me a new extractor. I dumped it. That is the only firearm I've had a FTE with.

ddc
January 19, 2014, 07:04 PM
Mine has been completely reliable through approximately 350 rounds or thereabouts.
It's seen American Eagle 124, Federal 9BP 115, Speer Gold Dot 124, S&B 115, and my own Montana Gold 124 FMJ loads.

The rear strap does rough up the web/palm area of my hand and when at the range I don't put much more than a couple or three mags through it.

The trigger is on the rough side. I might get the Northwood trigger at some point.

I have a Rohrbaugh R9 and a Kahr MK9. Between the two of them the PF9 doesn't get carried much but I do carry it on occasion.

Between the three just mentioned I shoot the MK9 quite a bit better than the other two.

bill.l.johnson
January 19, 2014, 09:42 PM
I've had a P-11 for 5 years and about 7-800 rounds though it. Never had a FTF or FTE in all the time. i keep it lubed and I polished the ramp and all rubbing parts and I believe that has helped. For $ 300.00, I can polish the burrs and smooth it out a bit. :)

gym
January 19, 2014, 09:48 PM
There is a current thread on a topic which asks what your worse gun was, "or something like that", read that thread, the gun you are considering is mentioned more than any other, "and it wasn't even about that gun".

skoro
January 19, 2014, 09:57 PM
Been carrying mine for five years now. Nice compact, lightweight pocket piece. As others have said, it's not a range pistol. It's a good inexpensive SD piece. Mine's been flawless.

Nom de Forum
January 19, 2014, 10:04 PM
There is a current thread on a topic which asks what your worse gun was, "or something like that", read that thread, the gun you are considering is mentioned more than any other, "and it wasn't even about that gun".

Do you have a link cause I don't see it. My first guess is that people with that opinion have unrealistic expectations for a pistol like the PF-9.

gym
January 19, 2014, 10:10 PM
Biggest disappointment, under general discussions

Nom de Forum
January 19, 2014, 11:47 PM
There is a current thread on a topic which asks what your worse gun was, "or something like that", read that thread, the gun you are considering is mentioned more than any other, "and it wasn't even about that gun".

Gym,

I did not make a count total of all pistols mentioned. But I did of the PF-9. Eight posters commented negatively in a thread consisting of 116 posts. Two of the posters complained they had accuracy problems (appear to be user problems) with one of those complaining it hurt to shoot (what else would your expect). The other 108 posts are filled with complaints about guns from Ruger, S&W, Glock, H&K, SIG, etc., many of which cost 2 and 3 times as much as a PF-9. Most of the negative posts on the PF-9 I think were made be people who did not make much of an effort to resolve the problem with Kel-Tec. Considering the excellent reputation Kel-Tec has for customer service on their very inexpensive products I have to discount the value of the one customer service complaint made in the thread. Every gun maker makes lemons and some of the most expensive gun makers have far worse customer service than Kel-Tec.

Loose Noose,

The Kel-Tec is a good gamble. Go for it.

MedWheeler
January 20, 2014, 12:21 AM
Nom de Forum writes:

I did not make a count total of all pistols mentioned. But I did of the PF-9. Eight posters commented negatively in a thread consisting of 116 posts. Two of the posters complained they had accuracy problems (appear to be user problems) with one of those complaining it hurt to shoot (what else would your expect).

Actually, I found only seven (230RN posted twice in that thread because he was answering another poster.)

Also, one of the posters that complained of accuracy issues admitted that the friend to whom he sold it shot it better than he had.

As you mentioned, hardly testament to the PF9 being disfavored more than any other make in the "worst gun" thread.

gym
January 20, 2014, 01:16 AM
You are correct, that was not a thread directed at the Kel-tec, but if you choose to find more info on this subject, you can do a search here for more specific threads on that subject. I am sure that if you choose to do that, it will give you ample cause to question that weapon, as I said it has been over discussed here on many occasions, and since it isn't anything I am interested in, I can only tell you that it has been run into the ground here many times.
There must be a hundred threads on this gun, http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=667126&highlight=kel+tec+problems, here is one, if you do enough research you will find that for there to be that much controversy about the gun, it can't be a good sign. They also made some that wouldn't fire the 147 grain round, something about sizing of the barrel or some such nonsense. I stay away from guns that have that much negative baggage, also my life is worth having the most reliable gun I can find. That one isn't nearly in that category. Kahr, S&W, Glock, Ruger, there are so many good reliable proven guns without even getting into the sigs H&K's, Kimber, Colt, or other expensive ones, that it just is not worth getting something that isn't s close to 100% as possible.
honestly I would rather carry a 5 shot revolver that I know will work if I have to use it, and did do that in the early 70's -90's. If I were looking for a carry gun now the Shield is a good little gun for under $400.00 that is much more reliable, or a pm or cm9, Glock 26, Sig 290, etc

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 01:41 AM
You are correct, that was not a thread directed at the Kel-tec, but if you choose to find more info on this subject, you can do a search here for more specific threads on that subject. I am sure that if you choose to do that, it will give you ample cause to question that weapon, as I said it has been over discussed here on many occasions, and since it isn't anything I am interested in, I can only tell you that it has been run into the ground here many times.

I agree there have been many threads here, at TFL, and elsewhere making complaints. The thing is the PF-9 is hard to shoot accurately, is unpleasant, and is a not very impressive looking little pistol. Intuitively manly men think they should have no problems shooting it and when they do, ego defense mechanisms go into overdrive. I have seen this happen at the range more than once. I wonder how many of the complainers realize that 40 years ago the PF-9 would be considered a near miracle of reliable power in a small, light, inexpensive package and if you got one with problems you would think nothing of getting fixed. Even today they are incredibly thin, lightweight, and inexpensive. It would be worth it to have to send it back to it back to Kel-Tec twice to get one that performed flawlessly.

toivo
January 20, 2014, 02:00 AM
My objective assessment:


Like the size and weight. Very easy to carry.
Not much fun at the range. Raw skin: ouch. Wear a glove if you want to shot a lot. Not any harder to shoot accurately than most defense-type pistols.
The slide on mine rattles from side to side. Not a big deal, but annoying.
Mine had two warranty issues: badly peened slide that was replaced by Kel-Tec (shipping me a new slide) and a light-strike misfire issue that was resolved by shipping the pistol back to them.
Mine is ammo-sensitive. It doesn't like 115-grain, especially Winchester White Box: constant failures to extract with that ammo.

I'm pretty much on the fence. Mine works now, but is one of the more ammo-picky pistols that I own. I use it as a fanny-pack carry gun when hiking and mountain-biking. I only carry 147-grain ammo in it, because it has never failed with that.

gym
January 20, 2014, 11:22 AM
As I said this is not the gun you want to risk your life carrying. 40 years ago most gun people would have seen it as junk, we already had small guns that didn't work , "even back then".

welshdude
January 20, 2014, 12:10 PM
The P11 weighs more, is shorter, thicker and carries 3 more rounds. Having shot both I'd rather have a P11. It's almost as concealable and round count may or may not be important to you, but it is to me. Still, for the money one would be hard-pressed to find as good a buy in 9mm. Certainly, if one was to cross my path and the price was right I'd get it for sure. They've been out long enough to have a proven track record.

Btw, both are incorrigable hand beaters. :p Not for the range except for maintaining proficiency.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 12:37 PM
As I said this is not the gun you want to risk your life carrying. 40 years ago most gun people would have seen it as junk, we already had small guns that didn't work , "even back then".

Gym,

If that were true in the 1970's nobody would have been buying Colt 1911s and S&W 59s. They often had the same things said about them that is being said about the PF-9. :D By the way we did not have locked breech 9mmP pistols the size of a Kel-Tec in the 1970s. That is why it would be considered nearly miraculous. We didn't have them in .32ACP or .380ACP in Kel-Tec size either. You should buy a PF-9. Even if it needs fixing (probably will not), once it is fixed, nothing else in 9mmP is going to be so cheap, light, thin, and comfortable in your pocket holster. I have absolute confidence in mine being reliable enough to use to defend my life.

snooperman
January 20, 2014, 12:43 PM
I have a Kahr PM9, it has been back for repair once and their customer service stinks. I paid $650 for it. I had a S&W Shield, it had a recall , and cost more than the Keltec pf9. A friend has a Rohrbaugh r9 , paid $1050 for it and it just went back for repair. Just because you pay more today does not mean you will get a gun without some problems. If you want "SIMPLE" without problems get a knife and forget semi-auto pistols. All gun companies produce guns that have problems PERIOD.The Keltec PF9 that I have is as good as any other I have and better than most. It is a CCW NOT a range gun. And the company has an excellent customer service.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 12:46 PM
I would rather carry a 5 shot revolver that I know will work if I have to use it, and did do that in the early 70's -90's. If I were looking for a carry gun now the Shield is a good little gun for under $400.00 that is much more reliable, or a pm or cm9, Glock 26, Sig 290, etc

All of which are much more bulky, heavy, and expensive than a PF-9. Ammo sensitivity? Why care? Find out what works and use it. Out of gun this size, at the near contact ranges it would be used, ammo selection is not going to make that much difference. I've got 125HPs in mine and it works great.

loose noose
January 20, 2014, 03:44 PM
Well with all the hype about the PF9, I finally went out and purchased the arm. I had my choice of 3 of them. I chose the blued slide and the tan grips. $257.95 otd.

Next I went home and cleaned it up a bit, ran a patch thru the bore, put a little CLP on the slides, and wiped the innards down some with CLP.

Took it down to my local range, which is less than 3 miles from where I live, and proceeded to test fire that little gun. I took slightly over 300 rounds, however, I fired right around 100 rounds of a variety of ammo. Fioche, Federal, Winchester, Hornady Critical Defense, and some older hand loads I had.

I noted the recoil not to be so severe, however it was knocking the crap out of my trigger finger, no matter how I positioned the pad of my finger. (big fingers) I did find the gun to be very accurate with all of the rounds I fed it, including the Hornady Critical Defense loads that I would end up carrying here shortly. I could keep all the rounds in the thoracic cavity on a NRA TQ15 silhouette target at 10 yards. Which is the maximum distance I would engage an adversary any way as a civilian.

At 15 yards I was able to hit the silhouette in the 4 ring 4/8 rounds with the other 4 hitting in the thoracic cavity, after taking careful aim and slowly squeezing the trigger after each shot.

I only shot 16 rounds of the Critical Defense ammo due to the cost, and 16 rounds of the WW Silver tip ammo. I also shot 24 rounds of the Fioche, 24 rounds of the Federal, and 16 rounds of my hand loads, using 147 grain copper jacketed round nose. Those were the only 147 grn bullets I used.

Needless to say I didn't have any fte, ftf, or any hang ups at all. I do believe this little weapon will become my faithful companion this summer. Now if only I could find an additional magazine for it at a reasonable price I should be good to go.

wally
January 20, 2014, 04:00 PM
Like the price, but the way it fits my hand, its my second least fun pistol to fire (first is my S&W SC 360 Scandium .357 with 158gr loads). Mine has been reliable, but its not seen a lot of use.

I'd agree the Kahr CW9 or CM9 would be well worth the extra $75-100.

gym
January 20, 2014, 04:29 PM
Nom I had one, and I am pretty handy with guns for 65 years, I could not get that thing to shoot 2 days in a row. That's when I started doing research, "as a trader, I know how to search". I found more problems with that gun, to the point that I just gave up on it ever working right. The KTOG forum has hundreds of workarounds for problems with these guns, any gun that has that many things that need to be done to get it to be reliable is not something I would carry to protect my life with.
There were one run that were actually sized wrong and would only fire the 115 grain rounds. I went through all this debating about this gun years ago, I don't want to waste another minute on that POS gun. If you want to trust your life to a gun that has had more negative things said and written about it than any other I can remember, go ahead. But please don't assume that what I said I just dreamed up.
Your life is worth more than that. And I never said you have to spend a lot of money to get a good gun, but if you really spend a few days pulling up articles about the Keltek fiasco you would think differently. Everyone had one, at one time, now it's rare. I have carried a gun with a license for 44 years, and that is the biggest POS I ever found.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 04:53 PM
Nom I had one, and I am pretty handy with guns for 65 years, I could not get that thing to shoot 2 days in a row. That's when I started doing research, "as a trader, I know how to search". I found more problems with that gun, to the point that I just gave up on it ever working right. The KTOG forum has hundreds of workarounds for problems with these guns, any gun that has that many things that need to be done to get it to be reliable is not something I would carry to protect my life with.
There were one run that were actually sized wrong and would only fire the 115 grain rounds. I went through all this debating about this gun years ago, I don't want to waste another minute on that POS gun. If you want to trust your life to a gun that has had more negative things said and written about it than any other I can remember, go ahead. But please don't assume that what I said I just dreamed up.
Your life is worth more than that. And I never said you have to spend a lot of money to get a good gun, but if you really spend a few days pulling up articles about the Keltek fiasco you would think differently. Everyone had one, at one time, now it's rare. I have carried a gun with a license for 44 years, and that is the biggest POS I ever found.

I started buying Kel-Tecs about 10 years go and am aware of the running debates on several forums. Most of us (thousands of people) have not had a bad experience so that must be what keeps Kel-Tec cranking them out.

I have no doubt you know what you are doing in regard to your own needs and preferences for meeting those needs. Sorry you had such a bad experience. I would never argue with you that having confidence in what you carry trumps what other people think you should carry.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 04:56 PM
Like the price, but the way it fits my hand, its my second least fun pistol to fire (first is my S&W SC 360 Scandium .357 with 158gr loads). Mine has been reliable, but its not seen a lot of use.

I'd agree the Kahr CW9 or CM9 would be well worth the extra $75-100.

Between the pain, the cylinder face erosion, and the "Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me" look, I quickly decided the PF-9 was a better choice for me than my S&W SC 340.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 04:58 PM
Congrats Loose Noose! Mission accomplished, I am egressing the A.O.

snooperman
January 20, 2014, 07:29 PM
Loose Noose, enjoy your PF9. I also use Hornady Critical defense in mine for carry too. Keep using good American ammo and it will be fine. You are tougher than me, as I rarely shoot that much at one time. It is the best carry nine for the money, and the trigger slap is the only negative I see, but it does not bother me as I only shoot about 30-35 shots in a session. Good shooting, Snoop

loose noose
January 20, 2014, 08:54 PM
Snoop, it wasn't the recoil, it was what it was doing to my trigger finger. I think if Kel Tec did something in regards to making the trigger guard a little bigger, I do believe that would alleviate the problem.

I plan on taking it out again real soon, I do like that little gun and contrary to what a few here have said negatively I believe it is a keeper. I have a lot of more expensive guns I can carry CCW, but I feel confident with carrying this one 4 months (hot summer) out of the year, due to it's conceal ability, and the power of a 9mm over a .380.

Most shootings occur within 21', with 2 or less rounds being fired, I'm certain I can depend on that piece for that.

I also noted how easy it is to load the magazine with 7 rounds + 1 in the chamber. Sure do wish I knew where I could purchase an additional magazine.

sig228
January 20, 2014, 09:01 PM
Think I'll go down tomorrow morning and buy that PF9 at my LGS. I do believe I'm going to enjoy it. Especially with the customer service everyone claims it has. Even with tax OTD it should run under $300.00 as I've already been told $240.00 + tax.

......so......photos?

wlkjr
January 20, 2014, 09:06 PM
As for customer service, since I was not the original owner, I would have had to pay the shipping back to KelTec which was about $50-60. I was not willing to spend that much more for a gun that still might not have functioned to my satisfaction. It was my choice, so I sold it to buy the Nano. It was a better fit for me and I have not had any issues with it.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 11:24 PM
As for customer service, since I was not the original owner, I would have had to pay the shipping back to KelTec which was about $50-60. I was not willing to spend that much more for a gun that still might not have functioned to my satisfaction. It was my choice, so I sold it to buy the Nano. It was a better fit for me and I have not had any issues with it.

Let me be the first to recommend that nobody buy a used Kel-Tec. The expense of a new one is so low it is not worth the risk of buying a used one. Unless of course you get to test fire it after a thorough check for wear and tear under the slide and in the action. Whoever is selling it should also be practically giving it away.

I have no experience with it, but the Nano looks to be a good gun. I hope you enjoy good luck with it.

MedWheeler
January 21, 2014, 07:55 AM
Gym, if you spend time on any forum dedicated to a specific make, and do it for many of the makes you mention, you'd likely come away thinking no one knew how to make a reliable, smooth-shooting gun.

I was horrified at the reviews and opinions I found when specifically searching out forums on both the Kahr and Kimber lines. But, I recognize that owners of these guns (well, any guns, actually) who have no problems with them and post about that are far outnumbered by those who do have issues with them and also post.

You wrote:

They also made some that wouldn't fire the 147 grain round, something about sizing of the barrel or some such nonsense.


That was due to the angle of the feed ramp, which was too steep, and was corrected in later versions. There are few gun makers who always "get it right" the first time (as I recall, even the Shield had some teeth-cutting issues.) I give you that about the feed ramp to help you in educating others about the make's problems.

Oh, and forty years ago, the Glock line would have been seen as crap, too.

gym
January 21, 2014, 11:40 AM
Ok take a survey and see how many people would trust their life to that gun as their carry, then tell me I am misinformed, or drop it.
The thing that annoys me, is when someone asks for opinions on something, and then wants to argue about it.
You asked for a consensus, if you didn't want one and all you wanted to hear were positive things, "about anything", then you shouldn't ask people what they think. This is an ongoing problem here. Somehow we are supposed to know what you want said and just say that. It doesn't work that way, if you asked for opinions, "which is basically what you did", then you read through them and make a decision on your own, not tell the people who were kind enough to respond , that you don't agree. Who cares if you agree or not.
Go over to AR-15 and read what their consensus is, "if you are so inclined" then tell the guys who don't like the gun why they are wrong.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_5/38_.html,
Or take the information and make your decision and that is the end of it.

jrdolall
January 21, 2014, 12:24 PM
I bought a PF-9 a few years ago from a pawn shop. Used for around $200 OTD.

I immediately began having light strikes with the gun. Probably 3-4 per magazine where the pin hit the primer but wouldn't fire the round. Multiple different types of ammo and it would usually fire when I tried to run the same round back through the gun.

I took it back to KT in Cocoa and was told that it had a P-11 barrel in it. I am looking at the work order that they gave me when I picked up the gun a few hours later.
"Replaced frame, extractor screw, trigger bar, trigger assembly, ejector, ejector pin, barrel, magazine catch and hammer block".
They had to change the serial number of the gun. They didn't charge me a dime for any of the owrk and remember that I bought it second hand from a pawn shop so who knows what kind of Bubba work was done on it.
It has well over 1k rounds through it since the rebuild with no issues until 2-3 weeks ago when I had a FTF using some reloads. It ran through that bag of reloads with no other issues.

It was a bear to shoot when I first started but the mag extension and a Hogue rubber grip make it much more comfortable. I can easily run through 50 rounds at a range session without any problems with recoil. The trigger requires practice but I am reasonably accurate with moderate firing speeds.

It works for pocket carry but is a bit larger than I like so I normally carry a 380. In cargo pants and khakis it is fine but in most of my normal jeans it is a tight fit in the pocket. That is of course an individual issue and your pockets may be bigger.

I have a P3AT that has been 100% perfect and a PMR 30 that is perfect unless I fill the magazine completely and then it tends to jam up. KT makes good quality guns and their CS is 2nd to none.

snooperman
January 21, 2014, 12:28 PM
Gym, since you are so obsessed with " bad-mouthing" the Keltec PF9, why don't you take the survey here on the high road. If this gun was as bad as you say, it would not be as popular with the conceal carry public. They would have gone out of business . The fact remains , it is very popular and quite reliable and sales of it indicate that is true.

snooperman
January 21, 2014, 12:43 PM
GYM, I live about 75 miles from Keltec, here in Florda, in a farming area. I have my own range here at the farm and shoot 3 days a week. I have been to Keltec and they are adding more square feet to their facility. Hardly a sign that their products are not selling. Many of the guns are very difficult to get such as their new shotgun and the 30 shot 22 magnum pistol. Some of their guns such as the LCP and PF9 have been copied by Ruger. This is a company that has innovation as a cornerstone since its beginning. I find the charges you are making about the PF9 , lacking evidence and challenge YOU to prove them.

gym
January 21, 2014, 01:16 PM
They make other guns that are fine He asked about that one, I already answered your question. I am happy you are happy, it has nothing to do with the experiences that you or I had. Overall I found it to be unacceptable, why can't you understand that just because you like something doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you. I have been in these debates before, they always end up the same way. Most of the "veteran shooters" stay out of them "which I should have done". If you like your gun then that is all that matters, I don't have to agree with you. If you want to trust your life to a gun, that let's just say has had it's share of critics, then that's your business, I don't care.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/chris-dumm/long-term-gun-test-update-kel-tec-pf9/

Nom de Forum
January 21, 2014, 01:33 PM
I don't think Gym has anything he needs to prove to anyone. He stated his opinion and experience, we analyzed, evaluated it, disagreed with it, and should respect his right to it. He is not forcing his opinion on us and he is not expecting us to agree so give the guy a break.

tomrkba
January 21, 2014, 01:35 PM
Hmm...I shoot several thousand annually in training alone. How does the gun hold up for 5,000 rounds?

snooperman
January 21, 2014, 02:27 PM
GYM,you have continued for 3 days with the same diatribe about "this is not a gun (pf9) that you want to trust your life to". Really. Where is the evidence that such as statement is valid. As a farmer ,I would call it plain old BS.

snooperman
January 21, 2014, 03:05 PM
Give me a break, Gym's rant is not just an "opinion" it is far more than that and he will be called out on such statements , unless he can provide the evidence to back them up. My 2 cents

gym
January 21, 2014, 03:30 PM
. Go peddle your wares someplace else, I have politely answered the ops question, I don't know who you think you are, but really no one I have any interest in further communicating with. This is becoming an abuse of forum rules.

Nom de Forum
January 21, 2014, 04:53 PM
7.......6......5.....4....3...2..

JWH321
January 21, 2014, 07:57 PM
I have a PF-9. Its reliable, but very uncomfortable to shoot. I replaced the trigger with an aluminum version which made it much, much better. I added a Pachmeyer (pachederm) grip, and that helped, too. The little squares on the handle make it feel like a bunch of rocks, even through the grip. Overall, its just not a fun gun.

I did have some firing pin issues awhile back, but apparently they redesigned the pin, and I have not had a problem since I got the new one.

skt239
January 21, 2014, 08:13 PM
I've wrestled with the idea of getting a few different Kel Tec's over the years but never went through with it. Getting over the roughness of the gun is what's difficult to me. I will say that I did like the triggers on the P3AT and PF9 that I fired when I was trying to decide between those two and the LC9 and LCP. I ended up choosing none of the 4 and went with a CW9. They do make some very interesting rifles and shotguns. At least they claim to make them; outside of gun rags and YouTube videos, I've never seen one.

wally
January 21, 2014, 08:59 PM
I'd agree the Kahr CW9 or CM9 would be well worth the extra $75-100.

I will retract this, it seems Kahr is not standing behind these. Mine was great until the front right side frame rail broke. They expect me to pay shipping,. Puts them in the EAA class customer service wise.

Kahr handguns returned to the factory for service or repair should be sent to:

K.A.I.
130 Goddard Memorial Dr.
Worcester, MA 01603
Attn: Service Dept.

PISTOLS SHIPPED TO THE FACTORY MUST BE SENT PREPAID. THE KAHR SERVICE DEPARTMENT CAN NOT ACCEPT COLLECT SHIPMENTS.
The Federal Gun Control Act does not prohibit an individual from shipping a firearm directly to the manufacturer for service or repair.
However, some states or localities prohibit this. If you live in such a location, please have a Federally Licensed Firearms dealer ship the gun. It will be returned to the dealer after being serviced.
IF YOU ARE A DEALER WITH A CURRENT FFL, PLEASE INCLUDE A COPY OF YOUR FFL IN THE BOX EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU RETURN FIREARMS FOR SERVICE.
HANDGUNS MUST BE SHIPPED PREPAID VIA UPS AIR OR FEDEX OVERNIGHT. HANDGUNS SHIPPED GROUND SERVICE MAY BE ASSESSED AN ADDITIONAL CHARGE OF $40.00 AND REPAIR WORK WILL BE DELAYED. Persons who do not hold a Federal Firearms License are prohibited by federal law from shipping a handgun by mail. Handguns mailed in violation of the law are impounded by the Post Office.
Enclose a letter that includes reference to the factory "Return Authorization" Number, your name, address, telephone number, and serial number and model of the firearm. Describe in detail the trouble you have experienced with your firearm, or the work you wish to have done. Stating only that the firearm "needs repair" is inadequate information. Please enclose copies of any previous correspondence. Please do not include holsters, custom grips, or accessories with any firearm being shipped to the factory for service.
Service work performed, other than approved Warranty repairs, will carry a minimum hourly charge of $65.00 plus a $25.00 return shipping and handling charge. Retain your tracking number when shipping firearms for repair. This will allow you to track the status of your firearm shipment either by phone or the website of the carrier. Please allow three weeks for the return of a handgun.
Kahr Arms ships repaired firearms via FedEx "Adult Signature Required". Please make sure the "Adult Signature Required" from FedEx is not waived for your address. If "Adult Signature Required" is waived at your address then you are responsible for any loss as a result.


Looks like after a lot of Kahr practice and years carrying I'll soon be switching to the S&W Sheild.

Glad I didn't pick up that Kahr CW380 I'd seen at the gun show Saturday, I wanted to see if they would stand behind their product. Seems not, so I'll skip this.

Guns small for their caliber really need excellent customer support!

rtz
January 21, 2014, 10:11 PM
The new Kel-Tecs are better:

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f95/has-anyone-bought-new-pf9-since-august-2013-a-258848/

wally
January 22, 2014, 11:40 AM
Hmm...I shoot several thousand annually in training alone. How does the gun hold up for 5,000 rounds?

Good point, but Kahr is not supporting theirs, my CW9 front frame rail broke after probably 6000+ rounds (~2000/year, ~3 years old) and they demand I pay to send it back so they can look at it :(

Kel-tec pistols may break more often, but they fix it without hassle when it does!

snooperman
January 22, 2014, 12:18 PM
Wally, I had the same experience as you with my Kahr PM9. Their customer service just plain stinks. S&W just had a recall on the Shield but S&W has an excellent customer service and so does Keltec. Most gun companies produce some guns that do not work well for one reason or another. The dfference is how they deal with this matter.

torqem
January 22, 2014, 12:29 PM
all pocket 9's are highly stressed. the springs need to be replaced often. if you shoot it a lot, stick with cast lead rd nose bullets, at 800 fps. really mild, easy on you, easy on the gun. Find them used, $200 each, and buy a pair. Don't shoot the ccw gun much at all. Practice with the other one.

loose noose
January 22, 2014, 01:03 PM
My only complaint of the PF9 is the way it throws the ejected cases, no rhyme or reason, and being a reloader that does make a difference. It definitely throws the empty casings quite a ways. BTW mine is an S series, had to test fire a revolver I did an action job on, and took the PF9 along and fired another 48 rounds thru it. It fired all 48 rounds without a hitch. Sweet little gun if I do say so myself.

I finally ordered straight from the factory 2 additional magazines the other day. Noted Natchez, Midway, Midsouth, Cabelas, and Bass Pro Shops, to al be on back order, and significantly more expensive than going to the factory. I'm beginning to like KEL TEC more and more every day.

jrdolall
January 22, 2014, 02:01 PM
My only complaint of the PF9 is the way it throws the ejected cases, no rhyme or reason, and being a reloader that does make a difference
I rigged up a screen and shoot on a large piece of green outdoor carpet when I want to make sure I collect brass in my outdoor range.
Compared to the Makarov pistols the PF-9 puts the brass back in the box for me. Those Maks can and do throw brass 50 feet or more.

snooperman
January 22, 2014, 02:40 PM
Loose Noose, I am glad to hear you are happy with your new purchase. I have 2 Keltec guns and like them. Their customer service is first rate and for the money so are their guns.

justice06rr
January 23, 2014, 02:32 AM
I think the problems with Kel Tec stem from reports by people who have a lemon. That is the problem they either produce a great one or a lemon. The good news is that if you get a lemon they will make it right at no cost. My pistol had to go back to the factory twice before they got a right. Now it is perfect no failures, shoots like a gem 100%. So if you buy one don't worry, they will make it right.

The problem with Keltec pistols is that many of them may come out from the factory new and already have issues.

I bought a brand new PF9 from a gunshop a couple years ago and it was plagued with issues. It was unfortunate because I really liked the small size and profile of the pistol and it was perfect for pocket carry. Ultimately I decided to sell it because it was unreliable, and this was new from the factory!

IMO Keltec needs to improve its quality control. That would be more beneficial than having to use their warranty when your gun breaks. it is better to have a fully functioning gun out of the box, than have to return it for service/warranty before it becomes reliable.

snooperman
January 23, 2014, 08:39 AM
"IMO Keltec needs to improve their quality control". Yes, but that could be said of many other gun companies including Ruger, who had 2 Recalls, S&W recalls, Kahr ,and Taurus , to name a few. With the way new guns are manufactured , most companies just do not put much time and money into quality control. SIG and H&K seem to be much better at it then others.

gym
January 23, 2014, 05:27 PM
If you must have one,
http://centerfiresystems.com/keltec-pf-9.aspx

bigfatdave
January 24, 2014, 11:43 AM
Decent price
Odd color

rhinoh
January 25, 2014, 03:09 AM
Mine was a complete horror show.

There are better choices for a bit more money.

Kahr CM9.

Jimmy
Exactly! One of the very few guns I've sold was my PF9...I've been very happy with my two Kahr CM9's.
Note I am not a KelTec hater as I have two P3ATs, a P11 and two Sub2000's.

snooperman
January 25, 2014, 08:26 AM
I have a Kahr PM9 and had problems with it, FIF, and FTE cases. I paid $650 for it, so paying more does not get you a better gun. Not only that , Kahr has one of the worst customer services in the industry. I have a Keltec PF9 that I paid less than $300 and it has been 100% reliable. The Kahr has a better trigger and that is it. You also have a life time warranty with Keltec, not Kahr. And Keltec has one of the best customer services. Shoot good American ammo in the Keltec and it will perform. The new S series have all the kinks out of them. Also the keltec is thinner and lighter and easier to conceal in a pocket or IWB holster. That said, all gun companies make guns that have problems. The difference is how they deal with it. Ruger, S&W, Keltec, and Taurus are at the Top. Kahr, SIG, H&K are at the bottom.

Cocked & Locked
January 25, 2014, 12:21 PM
I bought this one new a few years ago for $240 OTD. I've never had a problem and have shot various ammo from some made in Slovakia and the remainder USA made. Never any kind of malfunction...yet.

Bullet weights have been 115, 124 and 147 grain. The 124's have been Rem. Golden Saber +P and Winchester NATO. The 147's have been Winchester Silver Tip standard velocity and Cor-Bon +P.

I carry it often in hotter weather. I like it so well that I have five magazines for it.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/403297839.jpg

bigfatdave
January 25, 2014, 06:25 PM
trigger hurts my finger

I've read reports of adding heat-shrink tubing to the trigger, to widen and pad it.

Personally, it doesn't bother me, but I rarely run high volume through mine (except with the .22lr conversion kit on it!)

Cocked & Locked
January 25, 2014, 06:41 PM
I'll try that heat shrink tubing...thanks!

bigfatdave
January 25, 2014, 06:45 PM
You're welcome!

Tell us how it goes, I've been curious about it for a while.

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