Most powerful reasonable caliber?


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sbaker10
January 18, 2014, 07:56 PM
What is the most powerful caliber that you either own or have shot that is still reasonable when it comes to recoil, and cost to shoot?

I'm considering adding a large gun to the collection just in case I go large game hunting or give into the urge to see a coyote explode but I don't want something that costs 5$ a shot to shoot or knocks me down. The answer will be different for everyone so I am curious, personally for me I think it might be a 300rum, never shot one but its under 2$ a shot and a mosin nagant hardly kicks for me when wearing a jacket so I think I could stand shooting 10-15 rounds of 300 rum

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Esoxchaser
January 18, 2014, 07:58 PM
.308

joed
January 18, 2014, 08:02 PM
Oh boy, you just opened a can of worms. But since you asked, to me it is my Remington 700 in .25-06. Owned it for 37 years and have used it for everything up to bear. It isn't a punishing cartridge to shoot either. Light bullets for varmint hunting and hearier for medium game.

Robert
January 18, 2014, 08:02 PM
Well I hunt with a 375H&H Mag and have shot a 404 Jeffery and a 470NE. Only the recoil on the 470 was what I'd call stout.

sbaker10
January 18, 2014, 08:04 PM
Kind of curious to see what everyone thinks, I may go with a 30-06 just for the availability of armor piercing rounds and such but part of me thinks if I am going to go big i might as well go for a 300 RUM or thereabouts as neither is likely to get much more than a box of shells through it a month and it would be kinda fun to have a cannon around.

redneck383
January 18, 2014, 08:13 PM
I have a .30-06 and it's great, especially the fact that rounds are easily afforded and everywhere. But I won't lie, there's definitely a .300 Win Mag in my future. A friend of mine has shot .300 RUM quite a bit and says recoil is no big deal, but he's also 6'5 and about 300 pounds. Pretty much any of the rounds mentioned so far will put a coyote into low orbit.

eldon519
January 18, 2014, 08:13 PM
I've got a .35 Whelen which fits that description pretty well.

49willys
January 18, 2014, 08:18 PM
If you reload,338win mag is a heavy hitter.It has a bit of recoil,but not so much that it isn`t shootable at long range sessions.

mljdeckard
January 18, 2014, 08:20 PM
cost, power, and recoil are all subjective.

Do you have a job you don't think can be done with a 30-06?

Gordon
January 18, 2014, 08:24 PM
.375 H&H : kicks like a 12 ga. and hits like 2 30-06.:D

sbaker10
January 18, 2014, 08:31 PM
@mldeckard, not at all, I just want something bigger than my .223 for long range hits, I used to own a 30-06, sold it because I was 70lbs lighter then and had no use for it, now I can shoot one comfortably so I may buy one so I can shoot the old armor piercing surplus,

But as neither would be shot at the range all that much other than to keep in practice anything I can shoot without breaking my shoulder or taking a mortgage per box of shells would work, I don't particularly like coyotes and they are a nuisance here but I don't like them running off after they have been shot at extreme ranges so thats part of the reason for a bigger gun, the other part is I just want a cannon

jmr40
January 18, 2014, 08:34 PM
Most people consider the 30-06 to be the most powerful round that anybody should be able to master. Just for fun lets run some recoil numbers. I'll use this site.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

And run some numbers on some common 30 cal chamberings. I'll keep the guns weight at 8 lbs and use 180 gr bullets.

300 RUM, 3250 fps, 37 ft lbs recoil
30-06, 2800, 21
308, 2650, 17
300 wsm, 3000, 25
300 wm, 3100, 31

I've never shot a 300 RUM, but have owned the others. I've owned 30-06 the longest, have several 30-06 rifles I like and ain't getting rid of them. But for me the 308 and 300 WSM bracket the 30-06 and are the best choices to me.

The 30-06 just doesn't offer that much more performance in relation to the added recoil over a 308. With lighter bullets the velocity difference is even closer. The 300 WSM will all but equal 300 WM, but with recoil almost exactly 1/2 way between 30-06 and 300 WM. The extra recoil of the 300 WM is just not worth the added speed to me. Same with the 300 RUM. Around 30 ft lbs of recoil is all I want, and less is better.

Truth is the 308 will kill anything I'll ever hunt with ease. The bigger rounds only add a bit of useable range.

J_McLeod
January 18, 2014, 08:47 PM
I'd say 30.06 ought to be able to do whatever you want to do with it.

Elkins45
January 18, 2014, 08:48 PM
45/70 in a modern action with full-power loads qualifies, and has the added benefit of being reasonably common.

I have a 375 Ruger. I mostly shoot cast bullets out of it, so it really isn't being used up to its power potential.

rcmodel
January 18, 2014, 08:53 PM
I don't like them running off after they have been shot at extreme ranges so thats part of the reason for a bigger gun, the other part is I just want a cannonA 30-06 with 110 or 125 grain varmint bullets will kill coyotes DRT as far as you can see them.

If they are running off after a solid hit it's because of your bullet choice being the wrong choice.

That being the case, a .300 RUM won't kill them either.

BTW: Armor percing bullets are not good for use on any kind of game if you want DRT kills.

rc

gdcpony
January 18, 2014, 08:54 PM
Sorry, the biggest gun I have any desire to own is a 7x57. It does everything from elk down and kicks less than a 30-06. The biggest isn't always the best. My .243 will turn a 'yote inside out pretty well as does my .257Roberts and .308. No need to go bigger really.

I took out a guy to shoot his 338Lapua because of all the hype I had heard about it. He claimed 1000yds is easy and it turns deer inside out. Hmm... He had never shot a deer and the flinch he had made me wince. On his challenge after I gave him some shooting advice, we went head to head- my old Mauser (.257Roberts) vs his 338. At 700yds he was at 25% hitting, I was at 75% on a 12" gong. I won't say when he stopped being able to hit the clay pigeons. I guess the shooter matters more.

I would look at 6.5's if you are looking for long range work as they work awesome for that. The 30 calibers pack more punch, but tend (not 100% I know) to be less precise. Bigger than that? In North America I don't see how you need it.

Now, if you want big, powerful, and low kicking, you are asking the same as a guy wanting mechanical work cheap, fast, and good. They usually say pick two of those. So which two are most important to you? Recoil and big tend to leave actual power down. Big and powerful will kick hard.

Now the firearm will do some to mitigate recoil, but that costs money. Big muzzle brakes and a heavy gun. Other recoil absorbing technology is available, but it costs.

Just putting some thoughts out there for you to consider.

Edit: It seems 'yotes are on your menu. Longest range 'yote I ever took was 800yds with a .243Win. Dropped it right there. (I am afraid though that it was the second shot that hit him). I would definitely look into the .260Rem as a great round for your purposes.

Welding Rod
January 18, 2014, 08:59 PM
Depends if you are talking about for "shooting" or for hunting.

For hunting only one or maybe two rounds are fired, that answer would be greatly different than for "shooting" where 100 - 200 rounds may be shot in one session.

For hunting I would say .375 Ruger / .375 H&H.

For shooting I would say .308 or 30-06.

sbaker10
January 18, 2014, 09:19 PM
I'm not afraid of recoil like I said a mosin nagant is mild to me. That being said after the input here I am leaning towards a 30-06 the 110 grain bullets travel at 3400 fps which should drop them plenty dead. I wasn't going to shoot anything living with ap bullets by the way I just shoot a lot of old steel so it would add to the fun factor.

I'm thinking something like a .375 HH might pass right through a yote or even a deer and expend very little energy inside it making it less lethal than a 30-06

sappyg
January 18, 2014, 09:22 PM
What is the most powerful caliber that you either own or have shot that is still reasonable when it comes to recoil, and cost to shoot.

30-06/ 308 is as far as I care to venture. You can buy factory ammo for less than $1 a round and load your own for ~.50 a pop. It's rare to need more power than they can deliver. They are popular for a very good reason.
I don't consider the 300 rum reasonable by a long stretch. It's too uncommon to be reasonable to any but a reloader. If you're looking for more boom boom try the 300 WM. Ammo is more than moderately available and can be found for $2 a pop.

rcmodel
January 18, 2014, 09:23 PM
I'm thinking something like a .375 HH might pass right through a yote or even a deer and expend very little energy inside it making it less lethal than a 30-06

And you would be exactly right.

Speed kills coyotes, not massive slower bullets.

A 22-250 or .220 Swift is a coyote killing machine!!!!!

rc

Lj1941
January 18, 2014, 09:31 PM
I will go with a 35 Whelen which punished me the worst of any I have shot. I also have shot a 7 MM Weatherby but the 35 punished me the worst. This was from a bench which is always worse for me. I don't nomally feel or remember the recoil when shooting at game.

Jcinnb
January 18, 2014, 09:34 PM
My 8mm mauser shooting 200 grains is a pretty powerful round. Sure, there are more powerful, whatever that really means, but I feel good with it anywhere I am likely to be!

nathan
January 18, 2014, 09:45 PM
I have my Remngton 700 in 25 06 . It is perfect for whatever moves four legged in the State of Texas.

Savage99
January 18, 2014, 10:24 PM
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/480x318q90/c/547/tas5.jpgThe 7mm Rem. Magnum was developed by guide and gun writer Les Bowman who observed that most shooters could not shoot the 300 magnums well and a cartridge like the 7mm RM was the maximum for most.

The 30-06 is the worlds greatest rifle cartridge and it's about all most of us can endure for BG hunting.

The 300 Win. Mag. is a little too much for me to enjoy in a 8.5 lb. rifle.

I used the .358 Win with 200's for most of my life for woods hunting.

I had a .378 Weatherby for a while. I sold it when I realized that it was going to hurt me.

For 200 yd. position target shooting I did well with the 6mm Rem. International.

Some of my BG hunting rifles from top to bottom.

8X57, 30-06, .358 Win., .358 Win.

dprice3844444
January 18, 2014, 10:27 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=741113&p=9303734#post9303734

Revoliver
January 18, 2014, 11:05 PM
.300 win mag is my limit for shooting more than a handful of rounds in one session ETA: both on the shoulder and the wallet. And even then I'm not quick to touch them off in a hurry.

Would like to give the 7mm rem mag a shot one day.

Bill50
January 18, 2014, 11:39 PM
I'm over 6 feet tall and 250 lbs. I've never shot a gun that had anough recoil to bother me.

I would stay in the .30 non-magnum range for rifles, the 20-12 gauge range for shotguns, and the 9mm-.45 range for handguns.

Every adult male and most females can shoot one, the ammo is cheap and plentiful (or used to be), and you can shoot a couple hundred rounds in a day without pain.

Anything larger is just for fun.

As a bonus, you can kill anything on Earth with good shot placement from the rifles. The first British exploeres used to kill Elephants with .303.

TexasPatriot.308
January 18, 2014, 11:51 PM
I am edging on 60, have hunted with 7mm mags .264 mags at most, in my part of Texas, don't need any of that, I stick with .308 at max, 7mm-08 and .22-250. don't need or want no shoulder bruisers, got friends that shoot em and they are flinching when they pull the trigger. I own lots of guns, but my next will be a .257 Roberts, low recoil, just what I want, will still keep my .308s handy though. don't need nothing else or need to prove I can handle anything else....the young guys can have the mags, ultra mags etc......have fun.

MachIVshooter
January 18, 2014, 11:56 PM
Depends if you are talking about for "shooting" or for hunting.

For hunting only one or maybe two rounds are fired, that answer would be greatly different than for "shooting" where 100 - 200 rounds may be shot in one session.

This.

I don't find the recoil of my 7.5 lb 8mm Rem Mag (calculated 42 ft/lbs with my loads) bothersome for a few rounds of sighting in, but I certainly wouldn't want to get beat up with 100+ shots off the bench in a day.

For long bench sessions, the 15-25 ft/lbs produced by a sporter weight rifle in .25-06/.270/.280/.308/.30-06 is all the more I want to put up with.

RPRNY
January 18, 2014, 11:59 PM
FWIW, in my opinion, most people cannot shoot any of the 30 cal and larger magnums with any reliable degree of accuracy. In view of this, 30-06, .308 and, 45-70 for large bore, are the most powerful reasonable calibers for those without the extensive training required to shoot hotter 30 cal plus magnums well.

Inebriated
January 19, 2014, 12:00 AM
If .30-06 won't kill it, then it probably shouldn't be killed. Obvious caveats apply.

Warp
January 19, 2014, 12:20 AM
7.62x54R

But .308 and 30-06 come immediately to mind.

LAGS
January 19, 2014, 12:27 AM
I built a 35 Whelen, and that seems to fit the bill.
But one build I would like to do sometime soon is a 450 Marlin Caliber on a Mauser Action.
It is a 45/70 with some real Boot behind it.
Same with the .358 Winchester, the Whelens baby brother.

powder
January 19, 2014, 07:52 AM
7.62 x 51

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10TBNF

.300 WM

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail-historic.asp?fid=001B&cid=035&tid=007

I always get a "kick" out of the guys saying ..." nobody can shoot Xx rifle..." with whatever qualifier they need to add. It's a big planet. The .338 would be nice but as the OP stated ammo price is a consideration, and IIRC it's about 30% more than .300WM, and generally not as findable off the shelf.

Corn-Picker
January 19, 2014, 08:15 AM
Sbaker, you might want to look at the 308 again. The 30-06 has inexpensive ammo, but the 308 has ammo that costs even less. The 30-06 has a lot of ammo options, but the 308 has more. Take some time looking at the ammo selection Midwayusa.com, the 308 has more options and less expensive options, especially when you start looking at lighter bullets.

I bough some 140 grain 308 ammo for $0.50/round on the internet a few months ago, I don't know anywhere that sells 30-06 that cheap.

nathan
January 19, 2014, 08:22 AM
The 7.62 x 54 R surplus is plentiful and doesnt cost much . It is also enough to kill anything under the sun

MachIVshooter
January 19, 2014, 10:58 AM
I always get a "kick" out of the guys saying ..." nobody can shoot Xx rifle..." with whatever qualifier they need to add. It's a big planet.

I don't see "nobody" being claimed.

Having said that, you can't beat physics, and no matter what kind of beefcake you are, you're gonna have to hold a big boomer tighter than a moderate mid bore if you don't wanna be scope-eyed, which will negatively affect accuracy.

I'm not a little guy, and I'm a very seasoned rifle shooter. Still, I don't shoot my 8 Mag as well as my .25-06, and I don't shoot my .375 RUM as well as the 8 Mag. The reason is very simple; I don't wish to gash my brow with a scope, so I pull them in tighter and tense my body more as recoil goes up.

I would put a $100 bill on the table and wager a bet that any man, no matter how big & macho, would find the same results with rifles of equal mechanical accuracy. Only a dishonest man would walk away with the money by deliberately throwing shots with the lighter recoiling rifle.

powder
January 19, 2014, 02:16 PM
I don't see "nobody" being claimed.

Having said that, you can't beat physics, and no matter what kind of beefcake you are, you're gonna have to hold a big boomer tighter than a moderate mid bore if you don't wanna be scope-eyed, which will negatively affect accuracy.

I'm not a little guy, and I'm a very seasoned rifle shooter. Still, I don't shoot my 8 Mag as well as my .25-06, and I don't shoot my .375 RUM as well as the 8 Mag. The reason is very simple; I don't wish to gash my brow with a scope, so I pull them in tighter and tense my body more as recoil goes up.

I would put a $100 bill on the table and wager a bet that any man, no matter how big & macho, would find the same results with rifles of equal mechanical accuracy. Only a dishonest man would walk away with the money by deliberately throwing shots with the lighter recoiling rifle.
LOL! Yeah right, whatever you say there cowboy.

It's A LOT like the the motorcycle debates: "Nobody needs/ can handle THAT much power in a motorcycle, when all you need is Brand Xx with Xx cc engine."

"Big and macho", "beefcake"?; If you don't like shooting big bore rifles because they hurt you, then just don't do it-this ain't no pissing match. I always get a kick out of guys, telling other guys, ..." you don't need that much rifle, because..." It's hilarious.

The physics of what? You hold ANY firearm incorrectly and you're possibly going to get SOMEbody hurt!

gdcpony
January 19, 2014, 02:27 PM
LOL! Yeah right, whatever you say there cowboy.

It's A LOT like the the motorcycle debates: "Nobody needs/ can handle THAT much power in a motorcycle, when all you need is Brand Xx with Xx cc engine."

"Big and macho", "beefcake"?; If you don't like shooting big bore rifles because they hurt you, then just don't do it-this ain't no pissing match. I always get a kick out of guys, telling other guys, ..." you don't need that much rifle, because..." It's hilarious.

The physics of what? You hold ANY firearm incorrectly and you're possibly going to get SOMEbody hurt!
Oh you had to bring bikes into it! I have bikes from 250cc to over 1000cc. You can handle them rather well. But last track day I attended was a very tight track. My little CBR250 cut corners around liter bikes all day long. Only a trained track rider with a 954 stayed with me. Coaches said it was like watching a dance with us. Me in tight with precision and him using his power on the straight to keep me off him, but not able to pass me if I was ahead either.

I stray from the conversation though. Sorry.

Bigger guns take no more skill to shoot. They are simply more punishing to use. That is why many will shoot the lighter kickers and leave their bigger guns at home. Then they sight them in and go hunting. Not saying you can't handle them, just that they will not likely be your most pleasant choice.

Mike1234567
January 19, 2014, 02:29 PM
I don't hunt... don't need to but would if I had to. Of the rifles I've owned... it'd be .30-06 Sprg for the win.

LRShooting
January 19, 2014, 02:33 PM
Well not to be overly specific, but 308 all the way. Plenty of power, lots knockdown, and cheap. Being a 30 cal, it is probably one of the most versatile rounds available. I mean, they even make varmit specific ammo for .30 cal, yet also stuff thatll take down N. Americas largest game. Also, like I said, really cheap for what you get. Not as cheap as .223, but cheaper than almost any other round. Mainly due to the fact that not only are the Mil-surp cases and reload supplies cheap and abundant, but the pressure on .308 rounds is low. This translates into a longer barrel life and case life. Ballistic coefficients are high, allowing for good long range accuracy (1000 yards and still reasonably be accurate without extremely fancy rifles). Power is excellent and is even greater if your careful in matching ammo to your intended use. Punch through steel or blow up a ground hog, whatever you wanna do. Now, alot of guns will do most of this stuff anyways, but for the cost to power ratio, not much else comes to close in a overall comparison. Just to make sure I don't offend anybody though, I said not much, but there are exceptions....:neener:

Mike1234567
January 19, 2014, 02:41 PM
^^^ Yes and even factory-loaded .30-06 can be downloaded to just below .30-30 ballistics. I can't think of a more versatile cartridge, especially with factory-loaded ammo, than .30-06.

buckhorn_cortez
January 19, 2014, 02:45 PM
A lot of this depends upon how the rifle is setup. Rifle weight, whether you have a muzzle brake and a recoil system on a large caliber make an enormous difference. If a large caliber gun is setup for minimal recoil, it can be no more punishing than shooting a much smaller caliber.

Plastikosmd
January 19, 2014, 02:55 PM
' Bigger guns take no more skill to shoot. '

I agree with everything you said but this. I think it does take more skill to ignore what is coming at you when you pull the trigger. I have to work much harder to shoot my heavy kickers well. Same with a flintlock due to the flash (for me.) It gives u one more thing to think about in a long list. I still shoot the bmg or the 338 lapua just as well as my lighter kickers, lighter kickers are easier.

Russian Hammer
January 19, 2014, 03:41 PM
Biggest one I own is a 458 Lott which I find very enjoyable to shoot, I could easily shoot a box in one session because my wallet is usually hurting before my shoulder. Largest caliber I've shot is 505 Gibbs and it was definitely stout but not uncomfortable and I'd like to pick up a cz550 in that caliber. I'd like to try some of the really big ones just for the hell of it like 600ok and such.

savanahsdad
January 19, 2014, 04:09 PM
Another vote for a WSM I have a 7mmWSM and it did need a muzzle brake installed , but I'm running hot 160gr rounds through it, however ammo is slim picking for that WSM, if you don't handload then I vote 270WSM or 300WSM I think for the OP this would be the best pick based on the fact HE said he wanted a big Canon that would not cost him $5 a round , and if those two have to much kick , then he could have a brake installed on it, my 7mmWSM kicks like my 270win's

Robert
January 19, 2014, 05:53 PM
.375 H&H : kicks like a 12 ga. and hits like 2 30-06.
Exactly. If you can shoot a 12ga you can shoot a 375H&H. One world, one caliber.

back40
January 19, 2014, 06:18 PM
375H&H. One world, one caliber.

little tidbits like this make me want to pull the trigger on the safari express i have my eye on right now. i still can't seem to find an m70 alaskan.

for the lower 48, the 30-06 is about as versatile as they come, and do most anything that needs doing. but the .375 sure sounds like a must have in my book.

Badlander
January 19, 2014, 07:49 PM
My big gun is A 45-70 One of my most fun shooters. You can load it to your own tolerance level.

Agsalaska
January 19, 2014, 08:19 PM
30-06 for me. I have no desire to regularly shoot anything bigger than that. I certainly would if I was going on a specific hunt that required something bigger, but not on a regular basis. My 30-06 is a real killer.

Fleetman
January 19, 2014, 08:24 PM
I shoot a .458 Lott and use .458 Win Mags as plinkers....I much prefer the recoil of a Lott to my .338 Win Mag and several of the other fast mid-bores. Truly punishing is my .30-378.

WVRJ
January 19, 2014, 08:40 PM
I would have to go along with the 35 Whelen guys.I got one 2 weeks ago,and shot a few load development groups with it today.225 Sierra's were turning all but 2700 FPS on the chrono,and were in the 1 to 1.5 inch range for 5 shots.It's a 700 Classic,but I put the pretty wood stock in the box and installed a synthetic that has the weight at 7 lbs,12 ounces.I was mighty grateful for a Leupold with plenty of eye relief.I also have a 300 Win mag,but it's recoil is not as heavy as the Whelen's by a good margin.I wouldn't want to do 100 plus rounds in an afternoon with either.Bigger calibers,heavier bullets are for sure harder to master than more mild ones.It takes a lot of skill and concentration to handle them well.As far as power,there's not too much that a 308 can't handle.The last whitetail I shot with mine couldn't have died faster if it was struck by lightning,and it was at 450 yards according to the rangefinder.But the next one's gonna be with the Whelen.Kudos to you guys who can hang on to the 458's,505's,etc.I have shot a lot in my years,and i don't know about handling the real big rounds.Maybe I need to eat some more taters n beans.

Russian Hammer
January 19, 2014, 09:22 PM
I shoot a .458 Lott and use .458 Win Mags as plinkers....I much prefer the recoil of a Lott to my .338 Win Mag and several of the other fast mid-bores. Truly punishing is my .30-378.


I agree with this, I find a 300 weatherby fairly unpleasant to shoot, but the 458 Lott isn't painful at all and very enjoyable. I noticed a lot of people new to big bores will let the gun jump up and slap them in the face, contributing to their dislike of large calibers.

d2wing
January 19, 2014, 09:48 PM
30-06 anything else is a pretender. .308 is a choice but almost as good isn't as good. 7MM is near perfect but more expensive to shoot. The 45-70 is pointless. That was proved over 100 years ago. The battle of San Juan hill was the last time the military made the mistake of useing inferior slower cartridges . According to the Alaska DNR the most effective round other than 3 or 4 huge bone crusher magnums, against Brown bears is the 30-06. 308 was way down the list and the 45-70 was way below that. Nothing says lack of power and range than a black powder cartridge.

eldon519
January 19, 2014, 10:03 PM
The 45-70 is pointless.

I dare say this proves your opinion pointless.

RPRNY
January 19, 2014, 11:04 PM
Yeah, the 45-70 is pointless. Imagine trying to hunt like, I don't know, maybe buffalo, with such a useless cartridge. It would never work.

MachIVshooter
January 19, 2014, 11:29 PM
If you don't like shooting big bore rifles because they hurt you, then just don't do it-this ain't no pissing match.

Did I say I don't like to shoot big boomers? Did I say they hurt me? I think not. I simply said that I can't shoot them with the same degree of accuracy as a lighter recoiling rifle for the simple reason that they require more muscle tension to deal with the recoil.

Have you ever fired a 7 pound .375 Ultra Mag with a scope? With my handloads, it comes back at 26 FPS with 82 ft/lbs of recoil-roughly four times that of a .30-06. Yeah, I can handle it. But I can't (nor can any other normal human being) settle into it and focus on breathing and trigger squeeze like you do with a smaller cartridge when you have that kind of energy coming back at you with a small metal ring aimed directly at your ocular socket. If you do, you're gonna get cut, maybe worse.

Your remarks suggest to me that you have limited experience behind heavy recoiling guns and fancy yourself tougher than the rest. I'll let you in on a little secret: There are a lot of members here with a whole lot of trigger time behind dangerous game rifles, many of them a lot more than I have. I promise you that we're all chuckling at anyone who claims they can shoot a firearm with severe recoil as well as one with light to moderate.

The offer is open; I will supply the range, the rifles and the ammo. If you can group as well with the .375 RUM as something .30-06 or less under the same shooting conditions (and not a lead sled or other recoil mitigating device), I will give you crisp $100 bill. Fail, you pay for the ammo consumed and start a thread here admitting it.

Nom de Forum
January 19, 2014, 11:39 PM
30-06 anything else is a pretender. .308 is a choice but almost as good isn't as good. 7MM is near perfect but more expensive to shoot. The 45-70 is pointless. That was proved over 100 years ago. The battle of San Juan hill was the last time the military made the mistake of useing inferior slower cartridges . According to the Alaska DNR the most effective round other than 3 or 4 huge bone crusher magnums, against Brown bears is the 30-06. 308 was way down the list and the 45-70 was way below that. Nothing says lack of power and range than a black powder cartridge.

Yaaaa, the 45-70 is pointless......

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/luposafaris1.html

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/luposafaris2.html

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/luposafaris3.html

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/luposafaris4.html

Only a small sampling of the 45-70's pointlessness.

Nom de Forum
January 19, 2014, 11:47 PM
What is the most powerful caliber that you either own or have shot that is still reasonable when it comes to recoil, and cost to shoot?

I'm considering adding a large gun to the collection just in case I go large game hunting or give into the urge to see a coyote explode but I don't want something that costs 5$ a shot to shoot or knocks me down. The answer will be different for everyone so I am curious, personally for me I think it might be a 300rum, never shot one but its under 2$ a shot and a mosin nagant hardly kicks for me when wearing a jacket so I think I could stand shooting 10-15 rounds of 300 rum

Why not start with the largest and most versatile classic you could reasonably be expected to handle well. Get a .375 H&H with a stock that fits you well and a good recoil pad. You will not enjoy shooting it from prone but every other position will be fine.

B!ngo
January 19, 2014, 11:57 PM
To me, it quickly comes down to .308 and 30-06. From a lot of parameters:
Balance between range and cost
Balance between capability and availability
Balance between recoil and energy
And so on.
And for me, and I suspect many others, if you compare the two remaining rounds, .308 would come out on top.
It's just simple, reasonably priced, widely available, lots of assistance if you reload, modest recoil in many/most long guns.
There are many cases where it's not the right or best choice but it's a fine choice in so many instances that it's my choice in this class of cartridge.
After going with the .308 and using it some, if you find many cases where it just seems inappropriate, then you'll know what else to buy. But I doubt you'd ever dump the .308 system.
Now jumping a level (or a few levels) the .338 Lapua is quite interesting, but it fails in many of the 'balanced' parameters test. Many :) And to be honest, my knowledge of the Lapua systems is book learning only. But hey, one can dream!
B

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 12:13 AM
The offer is open; I will supply the range, the rifles and the ammo. If you can group as well with the .375 RUM as something .30-06 or less under the same shooting conditions (and not a lead sled or other recoil mitigating device), I will give you crisp $100 bill. Fail, you pay for the ammo consumed and start a thread here admitting it.

Hot damn! Sounds like great masochistic fun! I'd give you a crisp $100 bill just to let me try if we are talking 3 shot groups from prone unsupported and I can start with the .375 RUM. I think I could do it under those conditions. I have every confidence that after shooting the .375 RUM my brain would be so rattled I'd flinch so much my .30-06 groups would open up enough to win back my $100. :D

Andrew Leigh
January 20, 2014, 12:28 AM
I don't see "nobody" being claimed.

Having said that, you can't beat physics, and no matter what kind of beefcake you are, you're gonna have to hold a big boomer tighter than a moderate mid bore if you don't wanna be scope-eyed, which will negatively affect accuracy.

I'm not a little guy, and I'm a very seasoned rifle shooter. Still, I don't shoot my 8 Mag as well as my .25-06, and I don't shoot my .375 RUM as well as the 8 Mag. The reason is very simple; I don't wish to gash my brow with a scope, so I pull them in tighter and tense my body more as recoil goes up.

I would put a $100 bill on the table and wager a bet that any man, no matter how big & macho, would find the same results with rifles of equal mechanical accuracy. Only a dishonest man would walk away with the money by deliberately throwing shots with the lighter recoiling rifle.

Hmmm I think that in general you may be correct but let me say that owning a .375 has made me a better shooter. It has taught me to be more circumspect with shooting position and grip.

I regularly bench 30 rounds with max loads. As I approach 25 rounds I start feeling fatigued and the fun wanes a little. Now only take 20 odd to the range

Strangely I developed a flinch with the 30-06 some years ago, the .375 I don't flinch and thought that I had solved my flinch problems. Well it turn out that I still flinch with the 30-06, the mind is a powerful thing. My flinch is not associated to recoil but to rifle for some odd reason.

You can shoot heavy calibres well. Here is a 7mm group at 100m or .24MOA. 300gr. Accubonds at 2 500fps.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m582/CZ550/_375-and-7mm-Group.jpg

Back to the OP.
Cost is relative but I think that a 9.3mm fits the bill. A nice heavy hitting cartridge that shoots well, has managable recoil for it's punch and is a joy to shoot.

I was never a believer in heavy calibres subscribing to Ruark's "Use enough Gun" policy, not too much but enough. Having bought a .375 (could not say no to the price) I can tell you that I get immense joy from shooting the heavier calibre. It has nothing to do with macho but with the pleasure of owning a range of guns that one can master. In fact were my rifles to sold due to unfortunate circumstances the last to go would be the .375

savanahsdad
January 20, 2014, 04:25 AM
30-06 anything else is a pretender. .308 is a choice but almost as good isn't as good. 7MM is near perfect but more expensive to shoot. The 45-70 is pointless. That was proved over 100 years ago. The battle of San Juan hill was the last time the military made the mistake of useing inferior slower cartridges . According to the Alaska DNR the most effective round other than 3 or 4 huge bone crusher magnums, against Brown bears is the 30-06. 308 was way down the list and the 45-70 was way below that. Nothing says lack of power and range than a black powder cartridge.
Sierra GameKings .308 (30cal) = $28.00 per 100, Sierra GameKings .284 (7mm) =$28.00 per 100, ?

30-06 is at the top of the list , and 308win is way down the list ??... please tell us what is in the middle of that list ? it would have to be 60fps slower than the 30-06 and 50fps faster than the 308win , if there ever was a cartridge we didn't need it would fall right in there,

45-70 pointless ??? hummm ..... true it is not a long range cartridge by todays standards and not what I'd pick for the OP but pointless , ? I think you need to stop reading the DNR flyers , we just had a thread on here that addressed what cals have taken more deer , and all the post said the same thing , no way to tell as the DNR and/or Fish&Game don't ask what you shot it with

Inebriated
January 20, 2014, 04:33 AM
30-06 is at the top of the list , and 308win is way down the list ??... please tell us what is in the middle of that list ? it would have to be 60fps slower than the 30-06 and 50fps faster than the 308win , if there ever was a cartridge we didn't need it would fall right in there,

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

.30-06 did better than .308 due to being able to shoot 220gr bullets.

The 45-70 is pointless. That was proved over 100 years ago. The battle of San Juan hill was the last time the military made the mistake of useing inferior slower cartridges . According to the Alaska DNR the most effective round other than 3 or 4 huge bone crusher magnums, against Brown bears is the 30-06. 308 was way down the list and the 45-70 was way below that. Nothing says lack of power and range than a black powder cartridge.
Whatever you say.

And for the record, that DNR study was done in 1983, before .45-70 had many bullet options.

caribou
January 20, 2014, 04:35 AM
If you cant kill it with a 30-06, you should hide.

Vincent Price
January 20, 2014, 04:55 AM
as usual the answer (imho) begins with "it depends..."

my first Rifle was a Mauser k98 in 8mm Mauser. The recoil was just fine.
my second rifle was a Savage 114 .30-06. That gun was just a horrible bitch. The Barrel was too short and the stock was a terrible fit for me.

Barrel Length, weight of the gun, weight of the bullet, and very importantly how the stock fits the shooter is just as important as the caliber.

having said that a .308/8mm Mauser/.30-06 is enough for practically everything except maybe bears.

The rule of thumb for hunters around here is "use the most powerful caliber/gun that you can comfortably fire with precision 10-20x in a row." With a BIG emphasis on the second part of the sentence. Shot placement is infinitely more important than the caliber used.

I freely admit that I'm rather recoil-shy so I sold the savage and got a .308 with a heavy barrel. Absolutely the right decision for me.
While not everyone is such a delicate specimen as I am there is often (not always!) some machismo involved. A lot of guys simply won't admit to themselves that they are shooting far too big a caliber and that they are flinching with every shot.
That can create a catch 22 situation. Because they flinch they don't get a good shot. So they can't drop the deer or hog on the spot. So they get a bigger caliber because "the hogs where I hunt are just too tough to drop with a <insert caliber here>."
We call that a case of magnumitis and people are rarely cured;)

savanahsdad
January 20, 2014, 05:49 AM
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

.30-06 did better than .308 due to being able to shoot 220gr bullet

And for the record, that DNR study was done in 1983, before .45-70 had many bullet options.
thanks for the link , I would have never known that a 30-06 had more power than a 300win mag :what: what a joke , and they list the 30-06 over the 7mm rem mag, and the 300 Wby mag.:rolleyes: and the 300H&H didn't even make the list and no 270win but they put the 44mag on the list :scrutiny: I shoot a lot of 44mag and 270win , there is no way a 44mag will do more than a 270win, or a 300win mag , I think the USDA had some misinformed 30-06 fanboys working on this and yes USDA Forest services not the DNR !

eldon519
January 20, 2014, 08:05 AM
I just read that USDA report. Interesting that one of the .45-70 loads out penetrated the .460 Weatherby but got ranked near the bottom.

1948CJ2A
January 20, 2014, 08:39 AM
I don't find the recoil of my 7.5 lb 8mm Rem Mag (calculated 42 ft/lbs with my loads) bothersome for a few rounds of sighting in, but I certainly wouldn't want to get beat up with 100+ shots off the bench in a day.


I'll add to MachIV and say that my 8mm Rem Mag stoked with 200gr Accubonds is about the threshold for me. I can fire off a few rounds but shooting 10-20+ isn't my idea of fun. It has noticeably more recoil than my 300 Wby Mag.

That said I've read a few times over the years that the 7mm Rem Mag is usually the benchmark for recoil sensitivity.

ironworkerwill
January 20, 2014, 10:22 AM
.243 WIN will go the distance. .284Win will too, with AUTHORITIE! The latter is a bit harder to find brass. 6.5-284 is also a good option Lapua makes the brass (that can also be sized up to .284). The 30-06 can be made to do all sorts of tricks and the brass is everywhere.

MachIVshooter
January 20, 2014, 10:26 AM
Hot damn! Sounds like great masochistic fun! I'd give you a crisp $100 bill just to let me try if we are talking 3 shot groups from prone unsupported and I can start with the .375 RUM. I think I could do it under those conditions. I have every confidence that after shooting the .375 RUM my brain would be so rattled I'd flinch so much my .30-06 groups would open up enough to win back my $100.

Haha. Probably true. I have shot that rifle prone a couple times, it ain't fun. It's not too bad off-hand, getting pretty borderline from the bench. Prone just hurts, since you can't move with it.

I've shot a lot of big bores that actually have higher free recoil energy; it is the recoil velocity of that .375 that makes it particularly harsh. A 300 gr. Sierra BTSP @ 2,970 FPS produces a very sharp recoil impulse in a sporting weight rifle.

I'll add to MachIV and say that my 8mm Rem Mag stoked with 200gr Accubonds is about the threshold for me. I can fire off a few rounds but shooting 10-20+ isn't my idea of fun.

I'm right about there with ya. After the 3rd or 4th 5-shot group from the bench, I'm not really enjoying it anymore. Mine is a standard walnut stocked 700 BDL. I do love the round, though. I, too, use the 200 gr Accubonds. Haven't chronographed that load yet, but I get 2,965 with Sierra 220 grain pills and 3,315 FPS with 180s from the 24" barrel, so I expect the 200s are doing right about 3,100. Very flat shooting cartridge!

Hmmm I think that in general you may be correct but let me say that owning a .375 has made me a better shooter. It has taught me to be more circumspect with shooting position and grip.

I don't doubt that. Remember, though, the the .375 H&H is a pussycat compared to a lot of the medium and big bore magnums. Not saying the recoil is light, but it's quite a bit more tolerable than many on account of the relatively low operating pressure and correspondingly lower muzzle velocity. An 8 lb .375 H&H will only tap you with about 40-45 ft/lbs @ ~20 FPS.

Nom de Forum
January 20, 2014, 11:15 AM
it is the recoil velocity of that .375 that makes it particularly harsh. A 300 gr. Sierra BTSP @ 2,970 FPS produces a very sharp recoil impulse in a sporting weight rifle.

Yup, speed kills the hunted and the hunter.;) A Mk V in .378 is the most unpleasant rifle I have ever shot, more so than a .338 Laupa or a .50 BMG.

Remember, though, the the .375 H&H is a pussycat compared to a lot of the medium and big bore magnums. Not saying the recoil is light, but it's quite a bit more tolerable than many on account of the relatively low operating pressure and correspondingly lower muzzle velocity. An 8 lb .375 H&H will only tap you with about 40-45 ft/lbs @ ~20 FPS.

That is why I recommended to the I.P. to go with the .375 H&H. If your going to go for heavy, a 102 years of use has shown this cartridge to be manageable by most men. A .30-06, .375H&H, along with a .22LR and 12ga, will well handle about every situation most people will ever find themselves facing.

Arizona_Mike
January 20, 2014, 12:17 PM
I own a Whitworth Express Rifle in .458 Win Mag--I got it cheap from a Taxidermist who won it in a raffle at a big trade show in the early '90s and shot it twice and decided to never shoot it again. I pretty much shoot reloads exclusively. I may never make it to Africa or Africa might not be there when I do. It's is neither light nor handy. For anything in the US (including bear), I'd probably go with my Brockman's Super Guide Gun with hot .45-70 loads. The gun is so light and the recoil is oddly low, even uncanny, compared to the external ballistics.

Mike

PS. I see you are looking for Coyote hunting at "extreme range". I don't think any of the .458s fit that bill although you want a cannon and I jokingly refer to my Brockman as a mortar :D Have you looked into the .338 Lapua in a Savage 110? I plan to own one eventually as a more practical alternative to the BMG.

slumlord44
January 20, 2014, 05:34 PM
To me the .30-06 and .308 are close enough ballistic to almost be interchangeable. Either will handle anything in North America with the proper loading. For Coyotes a .223 or .222 Remington is plenty. The problem with a lot of suggestions is ammo availability and costs.

d2wing
January 20, 2014, 08:52 PM
I was wrong about the 45-70. I forgot that it was right below the .308. I have the paper copy somewhere that lists different ratings and is several pages long. I believe that report is based on observed results and bullet tests. Some rounds are not included because they are not in common use. And some bullets did not do as well as you would expect because they are not designed for the specific task. Penetration to the vitals and expending massive energy around the wound channel. Some bullets get there but either pass through or just stop without blowing any organs up. But there are lots of choices none are really wrong. Sometimes I remind myself that our forefathers killed big game with arrows and spears.

Cocked & Locked
January 20, 2014, 09:27 PM
I would have to go along with the 35 Whelen guys. I got one 2 weeks ago...It's a 700 Classic,but I put the pretty wood stock in the box and installed a synthetic that has the weight at 7 lbs,12 ounces. I was mighty grateful for a Leupold with plenty of eye relief.

I also have a 300 Win mag,but it's recoil is not as heavy as the Whelen's by a good margin.I wouldn't want to do 100 plus rounds in an afternoon with either.

I'm right there with you on the .35 Whelen. I find the .300 Winchester Magnum Remington 700 to be a pussycat in the recoil category as compared to my 700 Classic .35 Whelen.

Bullet weight has something to do with it I'm sure. 225 grain Nosler and Barnes in the Whelen -vs- 165 & 180 in the .300 magnum. I eventually put a pre-fit Limbsaver recoil pad on the Whelen...tamed the beast.


The .35 Whelen would should've been named .358 Whelen Express...sounds as impressive as it actually is. At least to me. :scrutiny:

Beast

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/17383006/375630574.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/17383006/375630575.jpg

Pussycat

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/17383006/351306330.jpg

clance
January 20, 2014, 09:49 PM
Three calibers come to mind for what type of shooting/hunting you implied.
1.) 375 H&H Mag.
2.) 35 Whelen
3.) 9.3x62 Mauser

All 3 can be chamber in excellent and proven action of the Mauser 98.

eldon519
January 20, 2014, 10:36 PM
Cocked and Locked, that's a really handsome .35.

Cocked & Locked
January 20, 2014, 10:51 PM
Thank you Sir

Cheers
January 21, 2014, 12:53 AM
Consider the 7mm08

bad_aim_billy
January 21, 2014, 06:12 PM
What is the most powerful caliber that you either own or have shot that is still reasonable when it comes to recoil, and cost to shoot?

.30/06 is the limit for recoil I can handle. If they open up a grizzly season down here and I ever get to hunt them, I would use my .308 with a good bullet and call it good.

Mike1234567
January 21, 2014, 07:08 PM
.308 Win on grizzly?? You're a braver man than I...

Hangingrock
January 21, 2014, 08:19 PM
In my Masochist days I had a 338Win, 375H&H, and 416REM those days are past. The 30-06 is now what I have.

fragout
January 22, 2014, 09:20 AM
To me, it quickly comes down to .308 and 30-06. From a lot of parameters:
Balance between range and cost
Balance between capability and availability
Balance between recoil and energy
And so on.
And for me, and I suspect many others, if you compare the two remaining rounds, .308 would come out on top.
It's just simple, reasonably priced, widely available, lots of assistance if you reload, modest recoil in many/most long guns.
There are many cases where it's not the right or best choice but it's a fine choice in so many instances that it's my choice in this class of cartridge.
After going with the .308 and using it some, if you find many cases where it just seems inappropriate, then you'll know what else to buy. But I doubt you'd ever dump the .308 system.

===================================================================

I'm in the same boat as the above.
One thing to add is the fact that both cartridges can be had in a wide variety of different rifles, with a tad more options chambered in 308.
Pick the best rifle that works for you in either, and you could hunt anything on this continent. ( It's already been done with both)

anothernewb
January 22, 2014, 09:35 AM
while I can handle 30-06 and a .338, I don't necessarily want to shoot them all day.

First off - I'm going to put reasonable into a reloading sense, meaning multiple efficient powders and inexpensive components. Now again, the .30 cal stuff is the most ubiquitous my any standard, and therefore the cheapest.

But - given the "reasonable" term meaning not necessarily the cheapest, and power being what I can shoot in relative comfort repeatably, If I was to choose - it would be a 6.5 sweede or a 7mm-08.

Running the numbers, using the 30-06 as a "killing standard" and as a standard of the average persons shooting comfort limit - both have about 90% of the energy of a 06 at about 66% of the measured recoil, given a similar gun.

This, of course also assumes typical varmint to large deer type game. If I was out after bigger stuff - probably a .338 in a nice solid, heavy gun for me. I'll deal with lugging 10# to save my shoulder. Flinching on the shot - no matter what you are shooting - isn't likely going to put much meat on your table at the end of the day.
But like many others have already stated - the .308 does almost the same thing, yet utilizes many of the same components as it's larger sibling. Which is why I have a .308 first, and will finally buy my own 6.5 or 7-08 within a year.

powder
January 22, 2014, 10:22 AM
Did I say I don't like to shoot big boomers? Did I say they hurt me? I think not. I simply said that I can't shoot them with the same degree of accuracy as a lighter recoiling rifle for the simple reason that they require more muscle tension to deal with the recoil.

Have you ever fired a 7 pound .375 Ultra Mag with a scope? With my handloads, it comes back at 26 FPS with 82 ft/lbs of recoil-roughly four times that of a .30-06. Yeah, I can handle it. But I can't (nor can any other normal human being) settle into it and focus on breathing and trigger squeeze like you do with a smaller cartridge when you have that kind of energy coming back at you with a small metal ring aimed directly at your ocular socket. If you do, you're gonna get cut, maybe worse.

Your remarks suggest to me that you have limited experience behind heavy recoiling guns and fancy yourself tougher than the rest. I'll let you in on a little secret: There are a lot of members here with a whole lot of trigger time behind dangerous game rifles, many of them a lot more than I have. I promise you that we're all chuckling at anyone who claims they can shoot a firearm with severe recoil as well as one with light to moderate.

The offer is open; I will supply the range, the rifles and the ammo. If you can group as well with the .375 RUM as something .30-06 or less under the same shooting conditions (and not a lead sled or other recoil mitigating device), I will give you crisp $100 bill. Fail, you pay for the ammo consumed and start a thread here admitting it.
Nope, what YOU were saying was that guys like me, who enjoy the shooting challenges of large rifles are within a group of certain adjectives; beefcake, macho, bla blah blah....making monstrous ASSUMptions about who/what you are talking with.

You can try and change it up, and manipulate anyone you like, don't make any difference to me that you prefer small bore rifles. It's no reflection on your manhood, or anybody elses'.

BTW-People fictionally "chuckling" at other people on the interwebs, used as a basis of some sort of a debate point, for more of your one-uppers ? Get over yourself.

It's a fun interwebs conversation about rifle calibers, and you're taking it personally-find your meds and step away from the keyboard.

eldon519
January 22, 2014, 11:53 AM
Powder, I guess you didn't exactly chuckle but you did get a "kick" out of other people saying it is impossible to shoot such and such caliber....when no one had said anything like that up to that point in this thread. I'll refer you to post #34. You introduced this side topic, and I don't even think you know what you are arguing anymore since your posts are wandering all over the place.

rdhood
January 22, 2014, 04:00 PM
.308

Sav .250
January 22, 2014, 04:11 PM
Sounds like that`s a bucket-list item. Buying(possibly) something by committee doesn`t mean you`ll like the out come.

It`s more of a challenge to do your own home-work. You know what you want. :)

Flatbush Harry
January 22, 2014, 04:14 PM
While I consider my go-to rifles .308 Win, .30-06 Sprg and 7mm RM depending on the hunt, if I'm backing up a friend or nephew, out comes my .375 H&H. With 260-270gr bullets, it matches the ballistics of a .30-06 with 180gr bullets out to 250 yards. It'll stop anything I'll ever hunt and when I practice, I shoot 20-40 rounds without problems. My musket is a Rem 700 XCR II in a B&C stock with full bedding block and I've scoped it with a Zeiss 3-9x40 Z-Plex in Leupy QR bases and rings.

Great rifle, great load...and one in which I have total confidence out to 250 yards anywhere.

FH

fragout
January 22, 2014, 04:56 PM
deleted..........

powder
January 24, 2014, 04:07 PM
Powder, I guess you didn't exactly chuckle but you did get a "kick" out of other people saying it is impossible to shoot such and such caliber....when no one had said anything like that up to that point in this thread. I'll refer you to post #34. You introduced this side topic, and I don't even think you know what you are arguing anymore since your posts are wandering all over the place.
You referenced my post at #34, in helping to highlight my point?

I'm not going post by post, "calling out" folks who won't shoot anything larger than .Xxx caliber-because it's nothing of a personal affront in the first place, other than to the goof-ball who wanted to range challenge for a $100 bill but could not articulate well enough to clarify WHAT his actual point is/was. LOL!

T.R.
January 24, 2014, 06:16 PM
35 Whelen hits hard but recoil tolerable. Bigger and faster cartridges kill no better yet recoil much harder.

TR

tuj
January 25, 2014, 05:36 PM
why no .50BMG? While I don't shoot big-bore myself, I've talked with a number of guys in my club who do, including the 50 and they seem to love it. You can reload it for I guess about $3/rnd or buy commercial for $5-6, but you don't shoot that many rounds in competition anyway, so that doesn't seem too bad.

Recoil? Well a lot of these guys are shooting heavy bench guns or rail guns so I don't think it matters too much to them, but I have no personal experience. Supposedly out of a Barret with a muzzle brake, it feels about like a slug from a 12ga.

And clearly it puts all .30cal magnums to shame. :-)

silvermane_1
January 25, 2014, 11:39 PM
another vote for 7.62X54R.

Cee Zee
January 26, 2014, 04:28 AM
If you really want to see a coyote explode for not a lot of money buy yourself a 12 ga. shotgun and some hardcast slugs for it. In particular I'd suggest the Brenneke Black Magic Magnum 3" slug. It's 600+ gr. traveling at 1500 fps. You can buy them for less than $2.25 a round. And trust me they will blast a big hole though a coyote. For example if you choose a head shot there likely won't be any head left.

Of course these rounds kick like a mule. You can't have powerful, cheap and low recoil all in the same round. Life just doesn't work that way. Your best bet is a 30.06 with 220 gr. bullets IMO. They will do some serious damage and won't hurt your shoulder for more than a few days and they're cheap compared to many of the big magnums.

Rick R
January 26, 2014, 11:51 AM
I haven't seen the OP return to this thread in a while, wonder if he decided to take up tennis. :evil:

From what I read in his original query, I'd say that the .300 RUM is a good candidate for the lower 48. I don't own one but shot a co-workers while helping him sight it in for deer season one year. Recoil is stout but not oppressive. There is the added benefit that Remington offers it in their "Managed Recoil" series so you can have the ballistics of the -06 or the RUM in the same rifle without reloading.

The draw backs are that it's only commonly available from Remington as I don't know if the other big ammo guys load for the RUM, and neither ammo or rifles are exactly cheap.

I've got a custom .416 Remington that I shoot from prone when the mood moves me and can to through a box of 350gr TSX hand loads in a single setting way too fast. If the rifle fits recoil can be managed.

Mike1234567
January 26, 2014, 12:16 PM
I haven't seen the OP return to this thread in a while, wonder if he decided to take up tennis. :evil:

Can you blame him? I mean... a tennis ball is 2.63 caliber!!

Grassman
January 26, 2014, 12:22 PM
.557 T Rex:evil:

xtphreak
January 26, 2014, 06:24 PM
thanks for the link , I would have never known that a 30-06 had more power than a 300win mag :what: what a joke , and they list the 30-06 over the 7mm rem mag, and the 300 Wby mag.:rolleyes: and the 300H&H didn't even make the list and no 270win but they put the 44mag on the list :scrutiny: I shoot a lot of 44mag and 270win , there is no way a 44mag will do more than a 270win, or a 300win mag , I think the USDA had some misinformed 30-06 fanboys working on this and yes USDA Forest services not the DNR !

I just left Prudhoe Bay AK and over the year of rotations, had a lot of discussions with Alaskans who have shot BIG browns.

I read the study in question and will say this.

Some of the more powerful rounds tested ranked lower due to excesive fragmentation and loss of penetration.

Also a criteria was what forest workers could handle recoil-wise if they weren't big or firearms experienced.

.30-06 was ranked highly for being managable by smaller less experienced shooters recoil-wise,
Being available in pump, or semi,
Having greater magazine capacity,
Getting the job done with the right bullet.

Brown's skull is thick and sloped and rounds you'd think will do well just won't penetrate.

For one of these guys, he shot an 800 lb brown charging with a .416 Rigby in the chest with no stop.
The third round was just above the left eye and she fell about 8 feet from him.
I watched the video his girlfriend shot.
Hyperventilating to say the least.
Oh, the first shot was to scare her away.
His CZ holds 3 rounds.

He hunts browns every year and said a lot of newer calibers weren't on the list from 1983, but smaller faster bullets won't stop a big grizzly as fast or as well.
YMMV

Nom de Forum
January 27, 2014, 02:36 PM
I just left Prudhoe Bay AK and over the year of rotations, had a lot of discussions with Alaskans who have shot BIG browns.

I read the study in question and will say this.

Some of the more powerful rounds tested ranked lower due to excesive fragmentation and loss of penetration.

Also a criteria was what forest workers could handle recoil-wise if they weren't big or firearms experienced.

.30-06 was ranked highly for being managable by smaller less experienced shooters recoil-wise,
Being available in pump, or semi,
Having greater magazine capacity,
Getting the job done with the right bullet.

Brown's skull is thick and sloped and rounds you'd think will do well just won't penetrate.

For one of these guys, he shot an 800 lb brown charging with a .416 Rigby in the chest with no stop.
The third round was just above the left eye and she fell about 8 feet from him.
I watched the video his girlfriend shot.
Hyperventilating to say the least.
Oh, the first shot was to scare her away.
His CZ holds 3 rounds.

He hunts browns every year and said a lot of newer calibers weren't on the list from 1983, but smaller faster bullets won't stop a big grizzly as fast or as well.
YMMV

An interesting rifle/cartridge choice for a thin-skinned, even if heavy boned, sub-1500lb predator. He used a rifle with limited magazine capacity due to a very large cartridge diameter, shooting a cartridge designed for thick skinned, even heavier boned, dangerous game weighing far more than any bear. The decisive shot was placed where a cartridge with half the KE and bullet weight, a third the recoil energy, and a size making it possible to carry twice as many rounds in the rifle, would have been just as effective. I am not suggesting he would be better off with a .30-06, but something with a little less power and girth than a .416 Rigby would seem to be a better choice. It is my understanding that .375H&H and 45-70 are the most popular of the calibers over .338, and .300WM and .338WM are the most popular of all the heavier .30-06 cartridges.

d2wing
January 27, 2014, 04:49 PM
There are lots of contenders but the 30-06 is the most logical. The logical step up would be the 7MM Rem Mag. Or the .300 Win Mag. I don't know why some think a 150 yard cartridge is good for much. I can shoot 600 yards and hit a man size target. I want a rifle to be able to do that that much and still be able to kill anything on this continent if needed. Elephant guns and black powder guns are fine for some folks but they won't do what I like. They hurt more and do less for what I want. I am a rifleman.

PJSprog
January 27, 2014, 05:34 PM
For me, I think the .30-'06 is at the top of the reasonable scale, and for all the reasons already delineated in previous posts.

Although, I really like my 7x57 Mauser, as it seems to have just the right amount of "umpf" without punishing my shoulder (or back) ... especially with handloads.

blue32
January 28, 2014, 03:50 PM
12ga

varanid
January 28, 2014, 05:38 PM
the largest rifle caliber I've shot is 30-06 and it was manageable in a decent sized gun. I've also shot a .50 AE that a friend has, and it was more doable than I thought--but that might have been the muzzle brake helping!

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