Remington 870 or Mossberg 500


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alfon99
January 18, 2014, 09:50 PM
Hi, Im planning on getting a new shotgun, It must come with a 3 inch chamber and i've come to this decision: Mossberg 500, or Remington 870. I'm almost new to shotguns, I only had a few side by sides.

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ColtPythonElite
January 18, 2014, 09:52 PM
Either will work just fine. IMO, the biggest decision is picking while safety you like better.

rcmodel
January 18, 2014, 10:07 PM
Why must it come with a 3" chamber???

Not ever needed for 99% of all shotgun applications!
(Unless you must use steel shot for duck / goose hunting)

rc

Tolkachi Robotnik
January 18, 2014, 10:10 PM
Both work very well and have a long enough history. There are some advantages of the finer models, and the cheaper versions are a little rougher. If you are well adjusted to tang safeties you will want the 500. If you are not, the Maverick 88 has a safety near same as 870, is really a Mexican Mossberg 500.

matrem
January 18, 2014, 10:14 PM
Why must it come with a 3" chamber???


Isn't that what Remington and Mossberg offer?
Do they still offer 2 3/4" chambers?

rcmodel
January 18, 2014, 10:20 PM
Probably is.

But you can buy an older 870 Wingmaster when they were still excellent quality for less money then a new Express costs!

rc

alfon99
January 18, 2014, 10:24 PM
Both work very well and have a long enough history. There are some advantages of the finer models, and the cheaper versions are a little rougher. If you are well adjusted to tang safeties you will want the 500. If you are not, the Maverick 88 has a safety near same as 870, is really a Mexican Mossberg 500.
Yes, I am well adjusted to and prefer tang safeties over button safeties.

matrem
January 18, 2014, 10:55 PM
Yes, I am well adjusted to and prefer tang safeties over button safeties.

I believe that's the only difference worth mentioning between the two.
I "learned" the Remington cross bolt safety, and that's that.
Once Mossberg started using dual slides, been just a matter of opinion as to your favorite.

alfon99
January 18, 2014, 11:05 PM
I believe the mossberg 500 has a 6 shell magazine capacity vs the 4 shell capacity in the 870. Anyway that's not at all important.

dromel
January 18, 2014, 11:46 PM
Being a left handed shooter, I find the Mossberg tang safety much easier.

Strahley
January 18, 2014, 11:54 PM
Can't go wrong with either, but I myself prefer the 870

MinnesotaFats
January 19, 2014, 01:16 AM
870 express or mossberg 500? ill take the 500, the barrel seems less rust prone compared to the express on mine. now 870 wingmaster or mossberg 500? wingmaster wins everytime imo.

Jaymo
January 19, 2014, 01:37 AM
I'm a southpaw. Mossberg wins.

I have an 870 Express 20 gauge 3".
It's ok. Nothing special.
It won't cycle 3" shells through the mag, even though it's a 3" gun.
Been that way since it was new, and the shop had a "no returns" policy,
like all gun shops I've seen.
I could send it back, but with the quality problems they're having these days?
I saw a brand new 870 express 12 gauge at the LGS a couple of years ago.
It had a good bit of rust in the chamber.

If I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't have bought a Remington.
I would have bought another Mossberg. None of mine have ever failed me.

savanahsdad
January 19, 2014, 02:20 AM
I looked at both and went with the neither and got the Mossberg 835, over bore 3 1/2" it will eat everything I feed it :)

KenRHill
January 19, 2014, 02:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L933NTU6Czk

If you decide you like the Mossberg 500 and if you are looking to save a little bit of money, you might look into the Mossberg Maverick Model 88. I did a video review and shoot of this gun a little while ago, and I also own a Remington 870. For the price a Mossberg Maverick really is not that bad.

Seb1981
January 19, 2014, 03:42 AM
I have an 870. I love it and I've never had any issues with the thousands of rounds that I've pumped through it. It's like the glock of shotguns. It will shoot no mater what(at least for me). I have honestly heard more than my fair share of people say the same about the mossberg. I had one friend of the many people I know with them have an issue. For some reason or another the gun would randomly misfire. At first we thought it was the round but examining the round we found that the pin would occasionally not hit the primer. As this was his home defense gun he wasn't willing to risk his life on a maybe so he took it back to the store and bought an 870. He has since had no more issues.

PabloJ
January 19, 2014, 04:07 AM
Why must it come with a 3" chamber???

Not ever needed for 99% of all shotgun applications!
(Unless you must use steel shot for duck / goose hunting)

rc
Probably because one can shoot 2&3/4" shells out of it most steel loads are 3" and most pump guns with 2&3/4" barrels come with fixed choke and no choke tubes.
Pick the one that comes with choke tube barrel, means of attaching light source and means of attaching shotgun scope or dot sight. Remember tapped receivers are nice because Weaver bases are about $7 per set.

jmr40
January 19, 2014, 08:24 AM
No reason to handicap yourself with an older gun that comes with 2 3/4" chambers and fixed chokes. The newer guns are better, older guns are far overrated. It is true that you will use 2 3/4" shells 90+% of the time, but when you need 3" shells, you will need them and be glad you have a gun that will shoot them. That, and interchangeable chokes make the gun far more versatile

The Mossberg 500 is a decent gun. The Remington 870 is the gold standard by which all shotguns are judged. It comes with a steel receiver vs aluminum is better balanced and will hold up much longer to hard use and abuse.

Ash
January 19, 2014, 09:06 AM
I disagree, the 870 won't hold up any better than a Mossberg - mine is churning 3" duck loads 40 years long now, even with the single action bar. That Mossberg replaced my Remington 870 Express (bought in 1996 new) because my dad preferred the steel receiver of the Remington. The receiver differences are a false comparison as the Mossberg locks into the barrel while the Remington locks into the receiver. Receiver construction is irrelevant when comparing them as a result (except that my 870 rusted easily when hunting ducks in Louisiana rice paddy blinds). There are other details one could argue, like the lifter or the ejector when detailing the designs.

But it really is Ford or Chevy. They both are solid performers. Using and owning both, I found I prefer the 500. Others like the 870. We both seem to shoot the ducks or rabbits just fine.

jaguarxk120
January 19, 2014, 09:35 AM
Ash, I must have a different Model 870 than you had, as the bolt locks into the barrel extension.

But then mine is a mirror image of the standard 870, it is the left hand model maybe it's different.

Ash
January 19, 2014, 09:52 AM
No, the bolt locks into the barrel extension. Brain fart on my part. But, the receiver construction remains irrelevant.

eastbank
January 19, 2014, 01:09 PM
moosbergs are fine for field or some time clays game guns, but for long term use in either its not a rem 870. if you have trouble with any firearm,return it to the factory or factory warrenty gunsmith and get it fixed. the only parts i have replaced in any rem 870 i have owned was a few firing pins and a few extractors and metal magizine follower(when i first buy them) and i own quite a few in all gages from 410 to 3.5" super mag. i still shoot a early rem 870 TB that has many thousands of shells thru it(i wish i kept better track of the amount). i did buy a new barrel that has the RC,and had it factory reblued. and i can still sale it for as much as i paid for it many years ago. if your talking about field use the safety issue is a non issue as you will have plenty of time to get either safety when a rabbit or bird takes off, now if it a defence gun i,ll listion to you as that may make a difference in life and death. eastbank.

heavydluxe
January 19, 2014, 09:24 PM
I recently bought a Mossberg 535 pump - it's a 500 that accepts 3.5" magnum shells. I want to do some waterfowl hunting and friends suggested getting a gun that will take the bigger loads even if you never wind up using them.

I compared the Mossie to the comparable 870 (SuperMag, I think)... They felt similar. The Mossberg was lighter, and I imagine that might lead to a little more recoil impulse. But I actually liked the tang safety, slide release, and other 'ergos' on the Mossberg better.

I'm betting that, between these two shotguns, you can't go wrong. They're the definitive shotguns for a reason. Good luck.

MinnesotaFats
January 19, 2014, 09:30 PM
like other folks have said, the 870 express' finish seems more rust prone. someone mentioned the fact that the 870 has a steel receiver compared to the 500s aluminum receiver but that isnt at all a selling point for remington because neither have been known to fail. it may make sense to bring that up as far as reblueing purposes go i suppose.. also i highly disagree with the above statement about the 500 being not designed for long term use as a field or clay gun compared to the 870. why would that make any sense? i must have read that wrong cause its not true.

alfon99
January 19, 2014, 09:47 PM
Is there a mossberg 500 combo? with rifled barrel and smoothbore.

MinnesotaFats
January 19, 2014, 09:54 PM
yes there is a combo.

d2wing
January 19, 2014, 10:11 PM
Yes I have a Mossberg combo and I like it. I have had a few of each 500 and 870. The Mossberg is lighter and I had problems with the safety on one falling apart. Also early ones with 1 bar could bind. The 870s wer stone reliable. No problems ever. In new, both are good guns and proven real reliable with lots of parts and service for both. They handle about the same except for a slight weight difference unless you have a higher grade 870 they used to make. Those had slim straight stocks and were lighter for upland game.

eastbank
January 19, 2014, 11:49 PM
long term field use is relitive, one man may fire 4 boxes a year in ten years thats 40 boxes and other fires 2 boxes a year for ten years thats only 20 boxes over 10 years ,so you can see what i mean about normal long term field use. most members at the gun clubs i shoot trap,five stand and sporting clays with shoot 300-400 a week. i now run four progressive presses,three mec,s and a old texan, it takes about 10 minutes to load a box shells. i know about 50-60 men who shoot these clay games very well and a lot more by sight and there was one moosberg being used, a silver reserve o/u and it didn,t make the season, for singles at trap i use a browning BT-100. eastbank.

Ash
January 20, 2014, 06:04 AM
Of course, Mossberg hasn't made a single bar 500 for 40 years now. I have one that never binds, but that was changed a long time ago. And a Mossberg Silver Reserve isn't the same in any way as a Mossberg 500. As to clay, I had a client who was a shotgun king and he used a Remington 1100 (his was skeet).

Mossberg isn't high brow enough for competition but that has nothing to do with utility or longevity. My single bar is 40 years old still ticking with ducks and rabbits. It has no rust problem and works and works and works with loads far more violent than softies used in sport (not to degrade sport as actions get worked far more in competition). Nothing has ever broken on it. It has never failed (no short stroking, nothing).

Mine is from experience, having owned both Remington and Mossberg. I like them both. There is nothing more rugged about the Remington action than the Mossberg action. They both have features than users can claim as advantages (try replacing the ejector on an 870). But deciding which one is more rugged lies within the realm of angels dancing on a pin head.

eastbank
January 20, 2014, 07:54 AM
i make my judgement on what people use where the most shells are fired and the clay games is a good place to start, if a shotgun is going hold up there it will also hold up in the field and give the ower several life times of field use. and i,m glad your moosbergs work for your use, but t i have not seen any moosbergs at the clay games used by any regular shooters i know. when you get into the clay games you soon know you are going to have a firearm that will handle the load and last. i am the second owner of this winchester 97 and bought it off the first owner who bought it in the 40,s,as you can see its in ex condition and i don,t think he shot a box of shells a year hunting, now its one of the older shotguns i shoot when we have classic gun day at the trap range. be safe and enjoy your hunts, eastbank.

Ash
January 20, 2014, 08:13 AM
Fine. The US military uses the Mossberg in preference to the Remington. Combat beats sports. But, having been in clay shoots (with a Remington 870) the reason you don't see Mossberg's has more to do with snob factor than anything else.

Having owned both, they are both fine. Neither of mine have broken.

We can do this all day long. Angels and pins.

eastbank
January 20, 2014, 08:58 AM
you are wrong, its not snob value. its what works for the large amount of shells fired. if the gun would last shooters would use it. and the shotguns are put out on bid, if five guns pass the tests the government takes the lowest bid. not dancing on a pin,just stating a fact,the moosbergs are not used at the clay games, do you think shooters would not use a less costly gun if it worked as well as a gun that cost more? you can,t make a moosberg into something its not by just saying it is. eastbank.

oneounceload
January 20, 2014, 09:08 AM
The reason you do not see Mossbergs in clay games is that except for trap singles, the others are two target games, and working an unbalanced clunky pump is not as conducive to getting a good score.
For hunting and SD, a pump will work somewhat decently, but even in those applications, different types are still better choices. A pump is a jack of all trades, master of none gun that works in a somewhat acceptable manner.

BigBL87
January 20, 2014, 09:48 AM
Is there a mossberg 500 combo? with rifled barrel and smoothbore.

Yep, they have quite a few different combos. A big reason I'll soon be buying a Mossberg is that I can get a Field/Home combo (28" vent ribbed w/ interchangeable chokes and 18.5" smoothbore for HD) to cover my main purpose of home defense and my secondary of occasional clay shooting.

miles1
January 20, 2014, 09:53 AM
No reason to handicap yourself with an older gun that comes with 2 3/4" chambers and fixed chokes. The newer guns are better, older guns are far overrated. It is true that you will use 2 3/4" shells 90+% of the time, but when you need 3" shells, you will need them and be glad you have a gun that will shoot them. That, and interchangeable chokes make the gun far more versatile

The Mossberg 500 is a decent gun. The Remington 870 is the gold standard by which all shotguns are judged. It comes with a steel receiver vs aluminum is better balanced and will hold up much longer to hard use and abuse.
Agreed the rem870 express is better.........As long as the one you pick up doesnt rust easy d/t poor coating or isnt picky with ammo and you dont mind spending an extra $100 dollars to find out.

BigBL87
January 20, 2014, 09:53 AM
you are wrong, its not snob value. its what works for the large amount of shells fired. if the gun would last shooters would use it. and the shotguns are put out on bid, if five guns pass the tests the government takes the lowest bid. not dancing on a pin,just stating a fact,the moosbergs are not used at the clay games, do you think shooters would not use a less costly gun if it worked as well as a gun that cost more? you can,t make a moosberg into something its not by just saying it is. eastbank.

You do realize that a high number of shots are fired from a gun as part of Mil Spec testing, right?

oneounceload
January 20, 2014, 10:09 AM
How many are fired?
Upwards of one million? Half million? One hundred thousand?
Just curious.

eastbank
January 20, 2014, 10:10 AM
double post.

eastbank
January 20, 2014, 10:37 AM
yes i do and i know they take the lowest bid, and i also know that just because a gun is to be used in combat doesn,t mean it will be fired thousands of times. the m-16 i carried in VN was humped to death not shot to death. we do have a few men who use pumps in the doubles clay games, several of them use rem 870,s and one of them shoots in the low to mid 40,s at sporting clays(he beats me every time).a few model 12,s and ithaca 37,s bring up the rear. here,s what RUDY ETCHEN did with a remington 870, a hundred strait doubles in 1950 and again in 1982 with the same 870 at the grand american., could he have done it with a moosberg? maybe. i can only say your are more than welcome to come shoot with us any time,we are a layed back crew and have fun.eastbank.

alfon99
January 20, 2014, 12:01 PM
Bought the maverick 88. They didn't have mossberg 500 or remington 870. So I decided to get the maverick because it was cheaper, but still works like the mossberg 500. I bought a combo, 18.5" barrel and 28" barrel. 18.5" for home defense 28" for hunting.

MinnesotaFats
January 20, 2014, 03:05 PM
The last thing i have to say is this. the op never said anything about the best gun for clay games. the fact that people are comparing "moosbergs" to a better suited o/u for clays is completly off topic to the op's question. its the 500 or the 870. not the 500 vs the 870 vs what people are using at clay games. so my point is this, if you were to take both the 870 and the 500 and put equal amount of rounds through each, i personally dont believe the 500 will fail first. maybe neither would have any failure of any kind after 15000+ who knows. eastbank if you can show me evidence of the 500 not performing as well as an 870 over extended use anywhere, ill pawn my 500s today.

dprice3844444
January 20, 2014, 04:01 PM
you mean there are other shotguns other than remington 870?

alfon99
January 20, 2014, 04:27 PM
The last thing i have to say is this. the op never said anything about the best gun for clay games. the fact that people are comparing "moosbergs" to a better suited o/u for clays is completly off topic to the op's question. its the 500 or the 870. not the 500 vs the 870 vs what people are using at clay games. so my point is this, if you were to take both the 870 and the 500 and put equal amount of rounds through each, i personally dont believe the 500 will fail first. maybe neither would have any failure of any kind after 15000+ who knows. eastbank if you can show me evidence of the 500 not performing as well as an 870 over extended use anywhere, ill pawn my 500s today.
Agree, I was going to use it for ducks anyway.

eastbank
January 20, 2014, 05:01 PM
moosberg made several trap shotguns, in the 70,s they made a 500 aptr pigeon grade trap model(71-75) and one in the mid 80,s a 500 hi-rib trap model(disc 86). price range was 350.00-400.00, not much less than a remington 870 trap shotgun and the moosberg trap shotguns are collector items now as not many survived the rigors of shooting large amounts of ammo. the only difference between the field 870 wingmaster and the 870 wingmaster trap gun is the stock, barrel and finish, all other parts are the same and all parts between the trap and field will interchange. one thing for sure the 870,s hold there value much better than a moosberg 500, if you buy a 870 and use it for ten years and sell it you will not lose any money and may make some.eastbank.

200Apples
January 20, 2014, 06:35 PM
.
Please pardon me for I am feeling troll-ish. :D


rcmodel

But you can buy an older 870 Wingmaster when they were still excellent quality for less money then a new Express costs!


Hear! hear! I reply to one's question, "Remington 870 or Mossberg 500"? with this single image:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Z63R/Mobile%20Uploads/20131229_193835_zps0597d2b9.jpg


:-)

Dr. Sandman
January 20, 2014, 06:43 PM
I think the op should decide and then post a 500 words essay on why they picked what they picked.

alfon99
January 20, 2014, 07:01 PM
I think the op should decide and then post a 500 words essay on why they picked what they picked.
I ALREADY PICKED IT, AND BOUGHT IT I bought the maverick 88 combo with a 18.5" barrel and a 28" barrel. Why? I had decided to go for the mossberg 500, and they didn't have the mossberg 500, just maverick 88 combo. There weren't remington 870's also, and I still prefer the maverick over the 870, so I bought the maverick. It's a bit ugly but it serves it's purpose and for much less than the remington. I also have 2 ejectors and more magazine capacity.

BigBL87
January 20, 2014, 07:40 PM
I ALREADY PICKED IT, AND BOUGHT IT I bought the maverick 88 combo with a 18.5" barrel and a 28" barrel. Why? I had decided to go for the mossberg 500, and they didn't have the mossberg 500, just maverick 88 combo. There weren't remington 870's also, and I still prefer the maverick over the 870, so I bought the maverick. It's a bit ugly but it serves it's purpose and for much less than the remington. I also have 2 ejectors and more magazine capacity.

No need to yell. ;)

Sounds like you got the Maverick version of what I'll be ordering. The 500 with those 2 barrels has been hard to find for me, glad you were able to find it.

oneounceload
January 20, 2014, 07:44 PM
you mean there are other shotguns other than remington 870?

Yep - you'd be surprised at all of the high quality guns out there

alfon99
January 20, 2014, 07:55 PM
No need to yell. ;)

Sounds like you got the Maverick version of what I'll be ordering. The 500 with those 2 barrels has been hard to find for me, glad you were able to find it.
I was not yelling, I just wanted to make sure you see it clearly ;)

Fred Fuller
January 20, 2014, 08:48 PM
Even here, as hard as we try, a significant number of people seem to just read the thread title and then post. Sorry, but it seems to be in intertubes thing.

Congratulations on the new shotgun, I hope it serves you well for years to come. Do be careful with it, you don't want to have an ND with anything but especially not a shotgun. Any new shotgun needs wear marks more than it needs any other accessory, so shoot it as often as you get a chance. As Dave McC used to say - BA/UU/R. Buy ammo, use up, repeat.

Carter
January 20, 2014, 09:01 PM
Much prefer the 500. They cycle smoother than the 870s I have shot and it is what I happen to own so....

Fishbed77
January 20, 2014, 09:30 PM
870 or 500?

Neither!

M590A1 ;)

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_1225_zpsf51fd058.jpg

BlueSmoke14
January 20, 2014, 09:52 PM
I know this is about the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500.......but any shooter (especially if your are on a budget) should take a hard look at the H&R 1871 Pardner Pump Protector. Receiver made by Hawk Industries...in yes China. Robust and reliable. Barrel made by Remington. Assembled by Americans.

Here is what I like about the Pardner Protector;

1. Steel Receiver.
2. Metal Trigger Guard.
3. Heavy Walled Barrel.
4. Positive Cross Bolt Safety.
5. Effective Recoil Pad.
6. Sling Swivel Studs Installed.
7. Robust Reliable Action.
8. 5 + 1 Capacity.
9. Composite Stock
10. Reasonable Price.

I've been testing mine with various loads and have the results posted at www.facebook.com/PardnerProtector

One thing that really impressed me was how perfectly the barrel is regulated. Throws slug to point of aim at 25 yards.:)

Uniquedot
January 21, 2014, 12:42 AM
How many are fired?
Upwards of one million? Half million? One hundred thousand?
Just curious.

It's not a high round count as stated, but rather only 3000 rounds. I don't know why anyone would consider that a high round count, but I've seen it referred to just as that in many posts all over the place. I know the OP has already made a purchase, but I'll still throw in my two cent opinion which is that the Mossbergs are guns that generally work and last, but are still the absolute lowest quality pump guns made.

I sometimes think those giving opinions on them have never owned or used finer pump guns like the model 12, Ithaca 37, or 870 wingmasters etc. I also don't know why people keep referring to the 500's safety as a tang safety as it's not near as convenient or as fast as a tang safety. The best aluminum framed pump in my opinion was the 1300, but I do still have one of the Mossberg 500's and intend to keep it and use it until it or I breakdown whichever comes first.

Uniquedot
January 21, 2014, 12:47 AM
but any shooter (especially if your are on a budget) should take a hard look at the H&R 1871 Pardner Pump Protector.

I had a guy try to give me one (in a trade) that he hadn't even used, but I wouldn't take it because of where it was made. I have since regretted not taking it as I don't think I've ever heard anything negative on these guns other than the fact that some folks find them a bit heavy.

Dr.Rob
January 21, 2014, 01:03 AM
That model 88 is a sturdy performer. Practice with it and enjoy it, take good care of it and keep it clean and it will last a lifetime.

NMPOPS
January 21, 2014, 05:11 AM
"you are wrong, its not snob value. its what works for the large amount of shells fired. if the gun would last shooters would use it. and the shotguns are put out on bid, if five guns pass the tests the government takes the lowest bid. not dancing on a pin,just stating a fact,the moosbergs are not used at the clay games, do you think shooters would not use a less costly gun if it worked as well as a gun that cost more? you can,t make a moosberg into something its not by just saying it is. eastbank."


Can you not spell? Or is it part of that snob factor that you keep calling Mossbergs "Moosbergs"? As far as "games" go most guns that are used in games i.e. IPSC make lousy carry guns. I would much rather rely on my Mossberg than some fancy game gun.

NMPOPS
January 21, 2014, 05:26 AM
Fishbed77

The 590A1 is a great gun, but it's still a 500. The action is standard 500 !

Uniquedot,

I have used and fire many rounds in 870s, great guns, love em!. Was my police issue weapon for 18 years. I have used the Ithaca M37, it was my issue shotgun for several years til I got an 870. Had a lot of feeding and ejection problems, was not reliable. When in the Army in the 70's I got to use the military Winchester M12 beat up but serviceable.

All that said I have also owned a shot a Mossberg 500 now for a few years now and can find no fault with them. Don't see why they won't last every bit as long as an 870.

Ash
January 21, 2014, 06:27 AM
There is a bit of a disconnect here. You cannot be reliable and made to last and be the "absolute lowest quality made". That crown belongs to Smith & Wesson, Kessler, or Noble shotguns.

Regardless of competitive shooters, the gritty conditions of field work are a superb test of the usefulness of any shotgun, and the 500 just plane works. Rise up on a flight of ducks or geese in freezing, wet, muddy conditions and take one or two. Do so consistently for years. Judge the equipment accordingly. I don't care if others don't like them. It matters more to the peppered duck that the shotgun didn't freeze or gum up from gumbo mud in a Louisiana rice paddy.

Said Remington worked, too, but it rusted easily.

eastbank
January 21, 2014, 07:27 AM
if you drop any firearm in the mud it will need cleaned and how many shells do you shoot in a day duck hunting,10-20? for that amount i could get by with a smith&wesson,noble or kessler. i have shot my 870 over 600 rounds between a good cleaning and it took all of 15 minutes to clean, take the barrel off remove two pins,drop the trigger group,pull the beech block and clean and reassemble. we will just have to agree to disagree. ford,chevy buick, pontiac they will all get you accross town, take your choice. eastbank.

Fishbed77
January 21, 2014, 11:29 AM
Fishbed77

The 590A1 is a great gun, but it's still a 500. The action is standard 500 !

It's not a 500. Look at the side of the receiver! It clearly says M590A1!

<Of course I'm aware it's the same action. Hence the smug little smiley! ;)>

MCgunner
January 21, 2014, 12:19 PM
If you are not, the Maverick 88 has a safety near same as 870, is really a Mexican Mossberg 500.

MEXICAN?! Eagle Pass is in TEXAS, son! Now, admittedly, the workers are probably from Piedras Negras, just sayiin'. :D

Dayum Yankees......:rolleyes:

oneounceload
January 21, 2014, 01:34 PM
But some of the parts ARE made in Mexico..... ;)

MCgunner
January 21, 2014, 05:31 PM
Hmm, so are Fords. :D

BTW, isn't the Partner pump made in China or something?

I don't know, ain't getting involved in another Mossy vs 870 thread. :rolleyes: Just had to stick up for Eagle Pass. :D

tnxdshooter
January 21, 2014, 06:15 PM
I'm partial to the Mossberg 500.

Here is mine.

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o685/dsclaiborne35/2013-10-10162053_zps49410792.jpg (http://s1338.photobucket.com/user/dsclaiborne35/media/2013-10-10162053_zps49410792.jpg.html)

Uniquedot
January 22, 2014, 12:00 AM
All that said I have also owned a shot a Mossberg 500 now for a few years now and can find no fault with them.

My opinion that they wont last as long as an 870 or other steel framed gun is simply based on observation as I have never kept one long enough to see if I could wear it out. First the action bars are pretty flimsy compared to and 870 (and others) which allows the slide action tube and forearm to twist considerably which allows them to contact the frame and wear on it at angles. If you break them down and inspect them you will also note that the bolt lock wears on the inner aluminum frame and there is always aluminum powder and sometimes small chips to clean out of them. The trigger group is extremely simple and easy to repair which is a plus, but I also feel the safety is not as durable as a crossbolt (my opinion only) and it's not as fast as a rear or front mounted crossbolt unless it's operated before the gun hit's the shoulder.

I saw a thread where a guy had the detent ball come out from under his safety when the button broke and it jammed under the shell latch and when he operated the slide it ripped the bottom of the frame off on that side of the gun which would have only damaged a part or scored a steel framed gun.

I do think the dual extractors are a plus on the Mossbergs due to the junk ammo on the shelves of big box stores though. Back in the days of black powder and later on with waxed paper shells dual extractors were almost a necessity, but when plastic shells with genuine brass heads came on the scene the dual extractors lost their appeal. The Mossberg really hangs on to spent shells remarkably well and they are slightly faster to reload which may be a plus to some. I have one now that has the spring loaded action bars which quiets up the rattling, but does nothing for the twisting (Mossbergs have extremely loose tolerances compared to anything else I'm aware of) and I bought a turkey barrel and HD barrel for it and have been quite pleased with this one. I'd like to find an older maverick with a metal trigger group to add a spring loaded action slide tube to due to it's Winchester safety location.

Sheepdog1968
January 22, 2014, 01:01 AM
It's a Ford versus Chevy type thing. The two biggest differences are the locations of the safety and where the shell lifter resides when you reload. Either is a great proven design.

1911 guy
January 22, 2014, 04:02 AM
The stocks are made differently. Try both and see which shoots better for you. Either one will give you a lifetime of use with a little care.

Read page one and posted. Then I see you bought the Maverick. Decent shotguns, hope you enjoy it and get many years of hunting with it.

Ash
January 22, 2014, 05:30 AM
As to longevity, I've a 40 year old single-action bar Mossberg that still keeps ticking with no broken parts. The only thing I changed out was the barrel in favor of one with removable choke tubes for steel shot. The original barrel works just fine still.

eastbank
January 22, 2014, 09:32 AM
this rem 870 with a barrel code of CWW is over 63 years old and the only thing added were a barrel with rifle sights and another barrel with RC to shoot trap with. the extra barrels are much newer than the shotgun and fit perfictly. the gun has never had a part replaced or ftf or fte. eastbank.

BigBL87
January 22, 2014, 09:47 AM
So, even though he already made his purchase and seems happy with it, I'll just add that I think what can be gathered from this thread is that there really isn't a right answer to the question. Everyone has their opinions and experiences, and either is a good shotgun. When it comes down to it for me, I'm getting a Mossberg because of the safety location and the price that I can get a field/home barrel combo at. That being said, if I could get a Remington 870 Wingmaster for around the same price, I'd have a lot more to think about. I saw it posted once that "870 Wingmaster>Mossberg 500>870 Express" and while that isn't an end all statement, its kind of how I view it based on what I've researched on the Rems and Mossys. Honestly, I'd be happy with any of the three in my hands.

firenfishook
January 22, 2014, 02:04 PM
Mossberg 500 no doubt about it. I have a 96 with many, many rounds through it. Still performs flawlessly. Plus I really prefer the tang safety

gamestalker
January 22, 2014, 04:10 PM
I've never had to repair any 870, can't say the same for Mossy's....

Several hard years of use and my 500 was having one problem after another. Same conditions, but many, many more years of hard use, I'm still waiting for anything to go wrong with any of my 870's including a early 70's Wingmaster, maybe some day?

GS

MCgunner
January 22, 2014, 04:59 PM
As to longevity, I've a 40 year old single-action bar Mossberg that still keeps ticking with no broken parts. The only thing I changed out was the barrel in favor of one with removable choke tubes for steel shot. The original barrel works just fine still.

Back in 1980 I traded a guy out of a "Revelation 310". It had a C Lect choke on it. I bought a new Mossberg 500 screw in choked barrel for it just for the new steel shot laws. That old gun was SO slick, practically pumped itself. I bought new wood for it that I ran across cheap in Shotgun News. A previous owner had apparently broke a stock or something, stock colors didn't match. I didn't care much for the corn cob fore stock, anyway. Then, I got the hots for a new 500 camo about 1992 which I still have and sold the Revelation. Should have kept it. No doubt it'd still be shootin'. But, I have another Mossy I picked up a couple of years ago, a 535. This one is tight, no slop in the fore end which is one of the gripes some have of the 500s. It's a dandy shooter.

I have to shim Mossberg stocks to get them to fit. They don't fit out of the box for me. Mossberg actually offers shim kits, but I'm cheap, just cut pop bottle plastic and did it by trial and refit.

dak0ta
January 22, 2014, 07:02 PM
How does the Nova/Supernova fit in?

matrem
January 22, 2014, 07:38 PM
Seein as the OP didn't include that one, don't suppose it fits into this thread at all.

As good as Benelli semi autos are, their pumps aren't anywhere close to there IMO.

BigBL87
January 22, 2014, 08:15 PM
How does the Nova/Supernova fit in?

Probably above the price range. That's why I didn't/am not considering it in addition to the price of additional barrels.

paintballdude902
January 22, 2014, 08:21 PM
i think the 870 feels more solid, thanks to the steel receiver vs the aluminum receiver of the 500...

other than that do you like a cross bolt safety or a tang safety?

BigBL87
January 22, 2014, 08:27 PM
The receiver is a tradeoff, being aluminum makes it quite a bit lighter. I wasn't sure about it but the more reviews/opinions I've read I don't think the aluminum receiver is much less durable if it is at all.

MinnesotaFats
January 22, 2014, 11:39 PM
^ correct. some may notice more felt recoil but as far as durability neither are prone to fail.

Ash
January 23, 2014, 05:42 AM
Nor does the receiver construction affect sturdiness. Indeed, the aluminum will actually be more rigid than the steel.

BigBL87
January 23, 2014, 07:58 AM
Nor does the receiver construction affect sturdiness. Indeed, the aluminum will actually be more rigid than the steel.

I was actually going to make an analogy using something I know very well, which is softball bats. One of the least durable "performance" metal bats manufactured today is made of steel, and alot of very durable ones are made of aluminum. A lot depends on the alloy, prep, treatment, etc. in determining which is more durable. There are also different kinds of "strength" when it comes do metal, some more desirable in different applications than others.

eastbank
January 23, 2014, 09:31 AM
moosberger copied the lock up of the rem 870 pump,the bolt locking up into the barrel extension and with out that the moosberg would not be a long term firing shotgun. don,t believe it? before rem (1950) did it there were not too many aluminum pump shotguns around. the only aluminum recievered shotgun i liked was the super light weight ithaca 37 and then only for field use. and remington and browning do make LT weight steel shotguns that come very close to the aluminum recievered shotguns. but if you are a hunter and some time clays shooter then moosberg may be the shotgun for you. no one says the moosbergs are not good guns for the field, but please don,t try to tell me how they will last for a life time of shooting other than hunting, where they may be fired 2000-3000 times in a life time 40-50 years, i personly know of several rem 870,s, win model 12,s and ithaca 37,s that shoot that amount of shells a year. eastbank.

MCgunner
January 23, 2014, 09:51 AM
Steel is heavy, affects balance. If you LIKE a heavy, slow shotgun with a butt heavy balance, that's not a problem I suppose. One of the best handling PUMP shotguns of all time is the Ithaca 37 featherweight. The Mossberg and the Winchester are pretty light, muzzle balanced and work better for me than a heavy gun. This is one of the few things I don't like about the Browning BPS, its heavy and sluggish handling. Still a good gun, but when those early morning teal are buzzing in, it's a bit slow.

Anyway, if you HATE Mossbergs with all your being, stay away from 'em, all I can say. I won't rule out another Wingmaster some day if I found a cheap one I wanted, but I don't really need another pump and I don't care for 870 ergos. If I were to get another pump, probably be a BPS 10 for goose hunting.

If you hate something as bad as eastbank seems to, I'm sincerely glad its a mechanical object and not a person.

200Apples
January 23, 2014, 11:02 AM
.
Take it easy on ol' eastbank. He's alright. He just has his opinion. As others mentioned, Ford or Chevy; take your pick. Even eastbank hisself said, "we will just have to agree to disagree. ford, chevy, buick, pontiac they will all get you accross town, take your choice." Sounds pretty good-natured to me. So he likes to use the word "moose" a lot. lol.


As for fundamental metallurgy? Keeee-righst! how things are a-changin'. Ford is going to sell the 2015 F150 with a body made of aluminum. They've tested the configuration long-term, and offroad.

Used to be that in tubing of the type used to fabricate high-end bicycle frames, aluminum had a shorter fatigue life than steel. Steel may be more resilient, but with ever-evolvin alloys technology, these new mil-spec aluminum alloys (of the type used by Ford for the new truck) are tough material indeed. I do realize that both Remington and Mossberg shotgun receivers are machined from a billet (at least Remington is), and that they're not tubing per se; I just wanted to toss that latter info into the mix.

Good thread.

:-)

eastbank
January 23, 2014, 12:24 PM
i don,t hate any firearm and if i could only get a moosberg,thats what i would use. i only say a moosberg will not be my first or second choice for my types of shooting and the amount of shells i like to shoot.for every 100 shotguns you see that are used to shoot large amounts of shells,there may be two moosbergs and that should tell you some thing if you realy think about it. its like buying a low end ford truck for hauling type writers and trying to haul two tons of bricks every day for years. if you do, you had better belong to AAA as you will be needing a tow. eastbank.

200Apples
January 23, 2014, 02:18 PM
.
hey, you old co0t. I'm a Ford guy.

:neener:

:D

eastbank
January 23, 2014, 02:50 PM
no insult intended to moosburg or ford truck owners., just buy the right tool needed to get the job done. if it will do what you expect it to do, fine. eastbank.

PJSprog
January 23, 2014, 02:59 PM
I have had one of each for many years now, and both are holding up just fine. Either one would be a fine choice. The real difference, in essence, boils down to your preference regarding the safety, as others have already noted.

Uniquedot
January 23, 2014, 06:01 PM
Indeed, the aluminum will actually be more rigid than the steel.

Surely you don't actually believe that? I mean after all the aluminum receiver has hardened steel parts sawing away at it every time the action is worked. If you think aluminum is as durable as steel just make an aluminum saw and try to cut a steel frame in half with it. After the teeth are completely worn away without scratching the receiver you can then take a steel saw and cut through an aluminum frame with it in about 60 seconds. As posted previously a tiny detent ball jammed under the shell latch on an aluminum receiver and broke the frame when the action was worked...that ain't gonna happen with a durable machined steel receiver.

Ash
January 23, 2014, 07:29 PM
Rigid, rigid. Yep, that's what I meant. Believe? Nah, I know.

It's called experience. I actually have experience with both Remington and Mossberg. Field use is just as legitimate a use of a shotgun than playing games. There is no pretending when one notes that a Mossberg is a durable, reliable shotgun. It is simply a fact. I know. I shoot both.

eastbank
January 23, 2014, 07:52 PM
field use was the first use of the shotgun and the games came later, but the games let you enjoy your shotgun year round and will make you a better field shot most of the time and most games are shot at a relaxed pace with good company. and as i like to hunt and shoot year round, i want a shotgun i know will take the wear and tare of year after year shooting and i know the moosberg is not that shotgun for me, take the time and shoot your moosberg at the clay games for few years,i know you will get to like them. i know i did and i started in the 60,s. eastbank.

Ash
January 24, 2014, 05:46 AM
I've shot skeet numerous times. I like it just fine and while trap seems to be a good game to mimic rabbit hunting I never really got into it. I even enjoy informal clay shooting with a bolt-action .410. It never got me going enough to invest the money in the shells to get really great at it. I always look at the target loads and think about buying steel shot or heavy field loads I could use for rabbits. The times I have shot have shown how it's easy to see how folks would really get into it. I'm more a soloist and prefer kayaking or hiking or hunting with just a couple of guys in a blind or across a field.

As to the Maverick, they are great guns, too. The OP should be well served with it. The Kessler/Noble/Smith & Wesson pumps are the only ones I can think of that were really just junk.

eastbank
January 24, 2014, 08:45 AM
the S&W was to be a cheap shotgun sold to police dept,s,well it was one of them and that was not to be a police shotgun. i knew a officer who was issued one for his police car, it was so bad he got permission to use his own pump shotgun. i found trap is good pratice for riseing birds over dogs. i never had problems with rabbits. grouse and wild doves are a whole other problem for me. eastbank.

Uniquedot
January 24, 2014, 01:27 PM
It's called experience. I actually have experience with both Remington and Mossberg.

I own and use both also and one thing I can say about the light weight Mossberg is that it's an absolute pleasure to shoot with low recoil loads when it's wearing it's 18.5" thin wall barrel.

MCgunner
January 25, 2014, 09:46 AM
Surely you don't actually believe that? I mean after all the aluminum receiver has hardened steel parts sawing away at it every time the action is worked.

Probably why the action becomes so smooth after a while. I know it don't hurt the gun, seen 40-50 year old Mossy's rollin' right along shooting down ducks, geese, doves, whatever. That old Revelation M310 I had (single slide bar Mossberg 500) was SO slick! Now, after over 20 years, my 500 is there, too. :D

Uniquedot
January 25, 2014, 10:19 AM
I got hold of a well used 500 and compared it to my newer one so as to track down the wear that made it slicker and found that it was actually the ejector! I always made the assumption that it was the elevator that gave them the jerky feel.

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