Homicide close to house - Need concealed carry.


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Junior27
January 19, 2014, 01:55 PM
Hey everyone,

This is my first post, so please bear with me. Also, I'm sorry if this has already been a topic or thread!

Well, here is the story: I live in a small country town, with a very small population (heck, we just got our first stop light in the county last year). However, just last week, only yards from my property line, a man shot and killed a neighbor woman (she was stopped at a stop sign and he randomly decided to shoot her). This whole incident shook our little town to the core, and has made me decide to purchase a concealed carry weapon for myself. With that being said, I am extremely short (5'4), and am worried about carrying too large of a handgun.

I was looking into the Ruger LCP, Taurus 738 TCP, and the Glock 26. I would really like to purchase the Glock based on reliability and customer service, but when I looked at them they seemed fairly thick.

Any other gun suggestions (I have done a fair amount of research, but any other recommendations would be great), holster types, and advice would be great.

-John

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chris in va
January 19, 2014, 02:46 PM
Hate to say this but you may have to travel a ways to a gun range that rents a few different handguns. After you take a preliminary safety course, rent as many as you can and find out what works for you.

I personally hate those little guns. My long fingers just can't get a decent grip and they kick like a mule. My smallest CC gun is a Kahr K9.

The hot thing right now is the Remington R51. It's not out just yet, but looks very promising. Quite a unique design.

BTW go ahead and put your location in your profile so we can get a better idea of your local laws. Every state is different.

And welcome to THR!

JohnBiltz
January 19, 2014, 02:48 PM
I don't have a problem carrying a Glock 26 from when I get up to when I go to bed every day. Nor do a lot of others. Saying that, it does seem to bother a lot of people. Here is the thing about carrying; its different for everyone and almost everyone gets it wrong at first regardless of research. I also think you are better off to start too big because its easier to go smaller than to go bigger. Its what you get used to.

Thompsoncustom
January 19, 2014, 02:51 PM
Ya I find glock to be worse for carry than full sized 1911's because of the mag well thickness. There are a ton of options out there now everyone has a compact carry line, so find a gun show and go play with all of them you can and see what "You" like best.

Mike1234567
January 19, 2014, 02:53 PM
I can't (won't) advise you on a specific firearm but I'll congratulate you on making the choice to buy one for self-defense. The truth is though... you're highly unlikely to need it in your neck-o-the-woods. That's the good part.;)

98Redline
January 19, 2014, 02:54 PM
You are going to get lots of input on this thread.

When it comes down to it, the best gun for you is one that you will carry. Many first time carriers get too worked up in the caliber, or "best gun" scenario and purchase something that ends up to be too large for them to carry comfortably. To this end it gets left at home more than it gets carried. A gun that is left at home is of absolutely zero use to you if you need it. First rule of gunfighting: Have a gun.

Will this be your first gun? If so, I would recommend a revolver over an autoloader. Why? The revolver is the simplest firearm to operate for a beginner(aim and pull trigger, access situation and repeat as necessary). You don't really need to worry about clearing jams, or failure to return to battery, etc... Not that it is an inherent issue with semis, just one less thing to think about. When you get more comfortable both with carrying the gun and shooting, adding a semi to the mix can be a good thing (I personally carry a semi) but, if you are not familiar with the operation then a revolver might be a better bet, for now.

I will certainly not tell you what you need to carry, only give some friendly advise.

Revolvers I would suggest:
Ruger LCR in either 357 or 38
One of the Small Frame S&W (J-Frame) guns in 357 or 38

While easy to operate, one of the chief complaints about revolvers tends to be the width of the cylinder. For some people, and particularly for small framed individuals like yourself, it can make it either uncomfortable or more difficult to conceal. (I still recommend the revolver until running a semi is completely 2nd nature to you).

If you have your heart set on a semi:
Ruger LCR: Reliable and a good gun (my every day carry). Tiny and in a good pocket holster can be carried most anywhere. The down side is the 380 round in this diminutive pistol has a surprisingly snappy recoil.
A Ruger LC9 would be another good option.
The Glock is a good gun. If it works for you, then go with it. I find the Glocks a bit too thick for comfortable CCW but you may find differently. I agree with Thompsoncustom above, I can carry a much larger 1911 more comfortably than a Glock, but that is just me.
I would steer clear of the Taurus. Taurus guns seem to be hit or miss. Some perform well, are reliable, and never give their owners a lick of trouble. Others are simply awful, with reliability or accuracy issues. Couple that with some pretty horrendous customer service and you have a recipe for a very unhappy owner.

The other recommendation is that you should budget for a decent holster. Many of the comfort complaints that beginning carriers have is related directly to a crappy holster. A good holster can make the difference between having something jamming into your ribs all day long and barely noticing the gun is there.

Lastly, you need to dress appropriately. By this I mean making sure that you have some extra room in your waistband if you are going to carry IWB (inside the waist band). If your jeans are a bit snug now, putting even a compact gun in there with it's holster is not going to help the situation. I normally recommend at least an extra inch. If the pants feel loose without the gun, they will feel right when the gun is carried.

Pilot
January 19, 2014, 02:59 PM
Welcome to THR, lot of great info, and folks here. For me, mid compact versions of larger service pistols work well, and are concealable with a good BELT, and holster. I usually carry a CZ-75D PCR, but others in that size range are good guns to, such as the Sig P228/P229, Walther P99, Glock G19, HK P30, etc. You're going to want to practice, right? These will enable easier, more pleasant practice, better accuracy, higher capacity, and ease of shooting well.

That all being said, if you still want a slimmer gun, several sub compact 9MM's have come on the market. The Walther PPS, S&W Shield, Sig P938, XDs, an as others have said, the R51 will be out soon. All these are pretty accurate, relatively easy to shoot, and easily carried.

el Godfather
January 19, 2014, 03:03 PM
I think you are in for a utility gun so I will suggest the following considering the information you provided and first reaction partial to Glock:

Glock 36 .45
Glock 27 .40
Glock 26 9mm

However, I would bring your attention to two that I think will be awesome pistols for you. Try and see which you like better in:
H&K P2000Sk
Or
Walther PPS

JN01
January 19, 2014, 03:03 PM
It will depend a lot upon your particular needs- your hand size, how you dress (makes a difference on what you can conceal), how you intend to carry it, how a particular gun subjectively feels in your hand, sensitivity to recoil, experience with various types of actions, etc.

If you are inexperienced with handguns, you probably should get some professional instruction (even if it is a one day class) before you carry one for self defense. If you opt for a semi-auto, learning how to put it into action and clear stoppages will be a bit more involved than a revolver is.

Mike1234567
January 19, 2014, 03:03 PM
I won't recommend to you... but will let you know... my personal choice for CCW is a Ruger LC9 w/ laser. It's very small and thin so I can just keep it in a pocket of my blue jeans.

J-Bar
January 19, 2014, 03:09 PM
What shooting experience do you have? What guns are you used to shooting?

I also applaud your decision to protect yourself. But if you have not done a lot of shooting, seek some training from a reliable authority, and become acquainted with both revolvers and semi-automatics in a variety of calibers. Hopefully you will find one that "just feels right" to you, and you will have answered your own question.

Whichever handgun you choose, I suggest you also try using a laser sighting device. I added a Crimson Trace grip to my wife's carry gun and it has increased her confidence a great deal. Unfortunately, some undesirable encounters take place in the dark...and the laser sight can give you an edge, even if it is just psychological.

Mike1234567
January 19, 2014, 03:22 PM
The "psychological aspect"... for me it's... I'll never hurt anyone who's not trying to hurt me or innocent others... but I'll be damned if I let nut-cases hurt me or innocent others unprovoked.

I'll always feel comfortable carrying something like a Ruger LC9 on my person. Something bigger... maybe not. That's the absolute truth. As others stated, if you won't carry it ALL THE TIME then it ain't worth a flip because it'll be at home when you need it most.

EDIT (EXAMPLE): MY Ruger SR9c will NEVER be carried on my person though I DO carry it in my vehicle and on my property. Vehicle carry and property carry are FAR CRIES from CCW because concealability is either easier or unnecessary... at least that's the way it works here in TX.

torqem
January 19, 2014, 03:31 PM
Just slip a Kahr CM9 into a kydex front pants pocket holster. Load it with CorBon's 100 gr jhp load, which is 1300+ fps and 400 ft lbs, and You'll be fine. Practice with 125 gr, 800 fps handloads, so you don't beat up the gun. Or get a CW9 as a "practice-spare. It's a bit larger than the CM9, on both ends. I made a set of "chaps" with a big pocket, so that I could practice pocket draws with the CW9 and the Airsoft, which is too big for a regular pocket.

hartcreek
January 19, 2014, 03:33 PM
You need to find someone or a place to rent and then shoot. First off you need to know how recoil sensitive you are. Then you need to figure out what fits your hand and your technical side which will mean picking a wheel gun or auto that fits YOU.

No one else can make that choice for you.

torqem
January 19, 2014, 03:43 PM
lugging around big, heavy clunkers inhales, guy. I did it for a decade, and mostly hated it, even tho I love guns and love being armed. Nearly everyone that you just point a gun at will cease and desist, you can count on it to a large degree. Misses change a lot of minds, and so do poor hits. A mere" 380,with solid hits, changes more. Until recently, however, 9mm ammo was cheaper and easier to find.

jsab9191
January 19, 2014, 04:04 PM
I'll Agree with Pilot Post#7 . Walthers PPS, S&W Shield, and XDS all guns that you can shoot and are concealable.

Junior27
January 19, 2014, 04:33 PM
Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the great replies, I have written down literally all the guns suggested on here, and plan to rent them at a shooting range. I am also going to try some others out, and talk to a few of my buddies who own small arsenals. Looking into handgun safety courses and things like that right now.

As to what firearms have I used? Pretty much any hunting firearm; be it a .22 or a flintlock. Sadly, I have never had the need to carry a handgun, never thought I would need to. I will keep you all updated with how things go!

Thanks again for all the replies!

krupparms
January 19, 2014, 04:34 PM
Not knowing your shooting experience makes it hard to tell someone what gun to choose. You said you had done some looking already, the Glock 26. As you found that to be a little thick for you,why not try something like the Kahr pistols or the Beretta Nano. They are much thinner! They can be slipped into a pocket or carried in a GOOD holster. I would look at holsters at several of the local gun shops. Also some extra magazines & a magazine carrier. Also,no matter your skill level you should always get as much training & practicas you can! Welcome to THR & good luck with your choice!

Mainsail
January 19, 2014, 04:42 PM
Welcome. There is a place when you sign up in your profile to include the State where you live. That can be important to know if we're going to give you advice.

JohnBiltz
January 19, 2014, 04:43 PM
There are two widely separated philosophies of carry. 1) The most important thing is to just have a gun. 2) I'm carrying a gun because I may have to fight with it so I want a gun that is best to fight with. You will see people carrying full size service pistols and they make it work. Most people though fit somewhere in between. I think the sweet spot are the subcompact versions of service weapons. Guns that while fairly easy to conceal are still easy to handle and fight with. I don't want to be hauling a G17 around Phoenix in the summer. But if I'm in a fight I want a gun I can shoot well in a decent caliber with a reasonable capacity that I've practiced with a lot. And that is not one of those tiny .380s.

red rick
January 19, 2014, 05:29 PM
I'll Agree with Pilot Post#7 . Walthers PPS, S&W Shield, and XDS all guns that you can shoot and are concealable.
I agree with this post and will add the Ruger LCR revolver .

Walkalong
January 19, 2014, 05:32 PM
Please learn all about gun safety, and then practice, practice, practice. Get comfortable with your gun.

See if there are any gun classes locally.

Hometeached1
January 19, 2014, 05:42 PM
Welcome to THR! don't over look the mid size handguns like a Glock 19, very good size. Also recommend what ever you get practice a lot, dry and live fire. Look at some of Massad Ayoob's books, they are very good.

md2lgyk
January 19, 2014, 05:50 PM
I have a number of small carry guns, in calibers from .32ACP to 9mm. My favorite is a J-frame S&W revolver.

JWH321
January 19, 2014, 06:08 PM
+1 to the above post.

For someone just starting out with carrying a handgun, its very hard to beat a j-frame or LCR type revolver (I have a 637-2). Its very small, requires almost no technical training to operate, and will go bang simply by pulling the trigger.

There are MANY, MANY weapons which will do things better, but to allow a shooter to become proficient in the shortest amount of time, a revolver simply works.

gym
January 19, 2014, 06:52 PM
Small revolver, as mentioned, 5 shot, brand name, like S&W. Perhaps a front night site or a laser grip, and a good holster. An hour or two of training would go a long way in helping you decide, good luck, bad things happen to good people.

CZ223
January 19, 2014, 07:19 PM
when buying a handgun for carry. I will list a few of these in order of importance, at least to me.
1) Reliability-Your first choice was a Glock, so you are on the right track.
2) Size-small guns are easy to carry, but hard to shoot well. Large guns are hard to conceal but generally are easier to shoot well.
3) How do you dress-This may sound odd but has a lot of bearing on how you carry and therefore what size gun you can carry. If you are a jeans and T-shirt kind of guy who can wear a cover shirt un-tucked you can carry just about anything in either inside the waist band,AKA IWB, or outside the Waist band, OWB. If you wear a suit jacket all day then the same applies. If you work in an office and wear a shirt and tie but no jacket, you may be restricted to one of the smaller guns such as the LCP.
4) Holster choice- This is where a lot of people make a big mistake. They pick out an appropriate sized gun that is reliable and they get a cheap holster. Cheap holsters don't distribute the weight very well and make carrying uncomfortable. Often, they quickly decide that carrying is too much of a Pain in the buttocks, and quit. Do your research and get a good one the first time. It may not work out the first time but keep on trying till you find the right kind combination of gun /holster. Remember Good leather and good guns command good resale prices so, even if you change your mind, you can get a lot of your money back.
5) Belt-A good belt will go a long way to distributing the weight of a gun properly so you can carry comfortably.
6) Training and practice- I put these together because good training and good practice go well together but some can't find or afford good training while others can't dedicate a lot of time or money to practice. I believe that a lot of practice including dry fire and drawing your weapon from concealment can make you proficient in shooting and weapons handling. It will not train you to be a gunfighter.
7) Caliber-notice that this is far from the top of the list but I am still a bigger is better kind of guy. A 380 is better than nothing, a 9mm is better than a 380, a 40 is better than a 9mm and the 45 reigns supreme. Actually, I don't think there is anything wrong with a 9mm and I think that the Glock 23 in 40 S&W might possibly be the perfect combination of size, capacity and power. Still, I carry a commander sized 1911 all day for a few reasons but the biggest is that I have a great holster for it, a Milt Sparks VMII and I don't have one for the Glock yet.

Let me finish by saying this, I am only two inches taller than you and a little on the heavy side. I carry a Kimber Eclipse Pro in a Milt Sparks VMII all day every day for 8-12 hours. I wear an untucked shirt, open in the front, over another shirt even in the summer with shirts. The IWB holster helps break up the outline of the gun and no one knows I am carrying till I want them to. I won't tell you which gun to buy but if you decide on the glock look hard at the 19/23. I firmly believe that if you can conceal a 26/27 you can conceall a 19/23.

Mat, not doormat
January 20, 2014, 02:59 AM
My basic advice for newbies: forget about trying to find the perfect gun, the one that speaks to you, for a while. Until you've got a good foundation under you, you're just not going to be making informed decisions, no matter how much you read about it.

So, since you aren't looking for the holy grail anymore, your life just got a lot easier. Go to the gun store and get yourself a Glock 19. That's a little smaller than the full sized 17, but still big enough to be easy to shoot. They're cheap, common, light, and can be reasonably expected to run out of the box. Get a few extra mags, a belt, a good holster, and about a thousand rounds of ammo. With your local range's resident instructor, put about 250 rounds through it, making sure it runs, and that you've at least got a general idea of the fundamentals.

Now go take a real class with it, a la Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Louis Awerbuck or the like. Learn to fight with it.

Then carry it for six months or so. By this time, you'll have a much better idea of what you want in a gun for the long haul. The G19 might do it for you, or you might have a list of complaints. Either way, you'll be ready to start splitting hairs to find the perfect one.

chris in va
January 20, 2014, 03:55 AM
A 380 is better than nothing, a 9mm is better than a 380, a 40 is better than a 9mm and the 45 reigns supreme.

What? A little humor?:rolleyes:

PabloJ
January 20, 2014, 04:02 AM
Hey everyone,

This is my first post, so please bear with me. Also, I'm sorry if this has already been a topic or thread!

Well, here is the story: I live in a small country town, with a very small population (heck, we just got our first stop light in the county last year). However, just last week, only yards from my property line, a man shot and killed a neighbor woman (she was stopped at a stop sign and he randomly decided to shoot her). This whole incident shook our little town to the core, and has made me decide to purchase a concealed carry weapon for myself. With that being said, I am extremely short (5'4), and am worried about carrying too large of a handgun.

I was looking into the Ruger LCP, Taurus 738 TCP, and the Glock 26. I would really like to purchase the Glock based on reliability and customer service, but when I looked at them they seemed fairly thick.

Any other gun suggestions (I have done a fair amount of research, but any other recommendations would be great), holster types, and advice would be great.

-John
If the victim was armed the outcome would most likely be the same.
Buy something small in biggest caliber you can handle well. Large stuff is next to worthless because it limits choice of carry mode.

guyfromohio
January 20, 2014, 05:43 AM
Look at the Walther PPS....very slim and light.

carbuncle
January 20, 2014, 06:59 AM
I would add to the chorus encouraging checking out several guns at a range, and suggest the list should include the Walther PPS and PPQ, Smith & Wesson Shield and M&P Compact, Ruger LC9, and Glock 26 and 19. All are 9mm guns, and I suggest exploring both the compact and subcompact models as everyone is different in the perceived value proposition for carry guns: I love the PPS for it's thin frame, which is an issue for me based on my body type, but many swear by the Glock 19 and find it no problem to carry and conceal. Ultimately, choose the gun you will want to carry and enjoy practicing with.

hentown
January 20, 2014, 08:10 AM
I'm always curious when a newbie posts a thread like this and gets eleventy-zillion different recommendations. What does he know when the thread finally peters out that he didn't know before he started the thread?

Best advice I could give to any newbie seeking advice on a forum like this: Don't take advice from a guy who uses 1000 words to say what could be said in 100! :cool:

Having said those pearls of wisdom, I'd just add that I carry a G26 daily and bought one for my daughter and one of my sons. If I thought we'd be better served with something else, I'd buy something else.

gym
January 20, 2014, 10:30 AM
Newbie= Revolver+ good holster+ training, as I said before.

sauer1911
January 20, 2014, 12:21 PM
It is my humble opinion that if you have a gun for self defense/home protection, you should spend ALOT of time learning to use it.

I go to IDPA matches as often as I can. This is the closest to actual real life shooting situations you can get. They are well organized, well run, and very safe.

If you keep a gun, you must get as good and as safe as you possibly can be. I hope to god you never have to use it, but if you do, be as good as you can be.

be safe.

Deaf Smith
January 20, 2014, 04:26 PM
Hey everyone,

This is my first post, so please bear with me. Also, I'm sorry if this has already been a topic or thread!

Well, here is the story: I live in a small country town, with a very small population (heck, we just got our first stop light in the county last year). However, just last week, only yards from my property line, a man shot and killed a neighbor woman (she was stopped at a stop sign and he randomly decided to shoot her). This whole incident shook our little town to the core, and has made me decide to purchase a concealed carry weapon for myself. With that being said, I am extremely short (5'4), and am worried about carrying too large of a handgun.

I was looking into the Ruger LCP, Taurus 738 TCP, and the Glock 26. I would really like to purchase the Glock based on reliability and customer service, but when I looked at them they seemed fairly thick.

Any other gun suggestions (I have done a fair amount of research, but any other recommendations would be great), holster types, and advice would be great.

-John
What ever you get.. get it now and get that CCW.

And then get some training and lots of practice. I mean lots!


Deaf

Mat, not doormat
January 20, 2014, 05:07 PM
Best advice I could give to any newbie seeking advice on a forum like this: Don't take advice from a guy who uses 1000 words to say what could be said in 100! :cool:
.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Hometeached1
January 20, 2014, 06:05 PM
The SIG 239 is a very good pistol for someone with smaller hands.

easyg
January 21, 2014, 02:58 AM
Here's my 2 cent's worth...

Finding the right weapon for you is going to take both time and money.

You're going to buy revolvers and auto-loaders, and you're going to sell or trade revolvers and auto-loaders.

You're going to buy many different holsters, and you're going to sell or trade many different holsters.

You're going to buy all kinds of belts and articles of clothing and accessories, and you're going to sell or trade all kinds of belts and articles of clothing and accessories.

You're going to discover certain "truths", and you're going to learn that certain "truths" are not necessarily so "true".


Enjoy the journey.



But just know that once you start carrying a firearm, you will never be happy not carrying a firearm.

Torian
January 21, 2014, 06:34 AM
Hey everyone,

This is my first post, so please bear with me. Also, I'm sorry if this has already been a topic or thread!

Well, here is the story: I live in a small country town, with a very small population (heck, we just got our first stop light in the county last year). However, just last week, only yards from my property line, a man shot and killed a neighbor woman (she was stopped at a stop sign and he randomly decided to shoot her). This whole incident shook our little town to the core, and has made me decide to purchase a concealed carry weapon for myself. With that being said, I am extremely short (5'4), and am worried about carrying too large of a handgun.

I was looking into the Ruger LCP, Taurus 738 TCP, and the Glock 26. I would really like to purchase the Glock based on reliability and customer service, but when I looked at them they seemed fairly thick.

Any other gun suggestions (I have done a fair amount of research, but any other recommendations would be great), holster types, and advice would be great.

-John
Well, I can tell you what I went with:

A Browning Hi Power is a great medium sized carry gun, with a slim profile that may be more comfortable in your hands if the glock was too thick. They come standard in 9mm, which is a great caliber to start with...manageable recoil..and high capacity. There are many guns to choose from...but for CCW I often come back to the Hi power.

Regarding the fact that you are NEW to the gun owners club: no...you do NOT need to get a revolver just because you are new to the gun world...nor do you need LOTS of training/practice...but some is recommended. You are not looking to be an professional shooter, instructor, or law enforcement professional. A little common sense can go a long way...and I'm sure you've been applying it in various aspects of your life up until now anyways. Here are a couple examples of that common sense:

1. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you intend to fire it
2. Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction at all times
3. Don't point the gun at something unless you intend to shoot it
4. Always treat a gun as if it is loaded
5. If someone hands you a firearm, check / clear it yourself, don't assume they have

Find a friend who is familiar with firearms, and have them take you out to the range for some familiarization. It's not complicated...point..aim...shoot. Some people on the first day of shooting are better than some of us who have been shooting for years...no bad habits! If your CCW process doesn't include it already, get familiar with the laws concerning it...where you can or can't carry, whether your state has the "Castle Doctrine" etc.

Don't forget about a good holster either. The right rig and a comfortable draw can be as important as the weapon itself. Once you pick the gun, we can help you along there as well.

If you have kids in the house, you may want to consider a method for locking / securing the firearm. Gunsafes can be an expensive option, and most of us don't invest in one right off the bat. Let us know if you need advice here as well.

HGM22
January 21, 2014, 06:49 AM
I don't conceal carry, but if I did I'd probably go with a Ruger LCR or S&W M&P Shield. I like the idea of the LCR being able to be fired actually inside a pocket. The shield is nice and thin too.

There are plenty of guns out there though.

ATLDave
January 21, 2014, 10:01 AM
If this will be your first venture into putting loaded pistols into holsters, please be aware that the holstering process is one of the most high-risk activities that one can do with a pistol without breaking safety rules. People with lots of experience and training get AD/ND's during the holstering process. Here's a story I read this morning in my local paper about a police chief doing it to himself. http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/indiana/e-indiana-police-chief-accidentally-shoots-self/nct2d/

Teachu2
January 21, 2014, 06:21 PM
I carry a Glock 26 most every day. I shoot it as well as a Glock 19, and far better than a Ruger LC9. I carried full-size 1911s for three decades. And the thinest gun I own for cattying is a S&W Shield in 9mm.

All of that has very little to do with you and your choice. You will have to find what you are comfortable with. My wife wanted a Ruger LC9 very much - "It's PERFECT" she gushed - right up until she shot it. Fired three rounds, set it down, and was done with it. Holding it isn't the same as shooting it - so, if at all possible, shoot some before you choose.

If that's not possible, buy a Shield 9mm. It's slim enough to carry, fat enough to hold and shoot well, and easy to sell if'n you hate it.

Mike1234567
January 21, 2014, 07:02 PM
RE Ruger LC9... I'm an average man with average hands and not in the best of health. An LC9 is very easy for me to shoot and control. A large pistol is certainly more comfortable and I love my SR9c but I won't carry it on my person all the time like I will something like an LC9. If it's not with me it does no good at all.

tomrkba
January 21, 2014, 07:52 PM
The absolute best action you can take right now is to attend a two day defensive handgun class. You do not need to own a gun; gun schools have them available for rent. The reason is if you are not a dedicated handgunner, you likely do not know what you need in a defensive gun. A defensive course will show you what is necessary and what is not.

I do not know your skill level with handguns. It sounds like you are rather new (meaning you haven't fired 10,000 rounds in the past year or two). On demand, can you quickly shoot two ten round groups at two different targets 15 yards away and and keep all shots within three to four inches? Can you hit a 3x5 note card, slow fire, at 25 yards on demand? If you do a double tap, do both rounds consistently hit within one and a half inches of each other at seven yards? If not, then a small handgun is not what you need because they're not good learning guns. Purchase a mid to full sized gun. You can buy a small gun later.

That said, if you have to have a gun NOW, then the default choice is a Glock 19 with night sights. The gun is a great balance between sight radius, weight, capacity, size and so forth. It is easy on the hands and the magazines are durable. The guns are reliable and shoot well. They need not be modified other than to change the sights.

Do not fool around with 1911's or revolvers. Do not purchase a snubby revolver under any circumstances. Revolvers require quite a bit of dedication to master shooting and reloading. Revolver instructors are difficult to find and do not attend a class with an instructor who doesn't know them. If you must have a revolver, buy one with a four inch barrel (I like the Ruger GP100 over the S&W revolvers for a variety of reasons). 1911's are another level dedication that requires you know what you are doing (google 10-8 Performance and read the duty 1911 articles for a glimpse of the "fun" 1911 guys have). Stick with service guns from Beretta, SIG Classic P-Series (P220, P225, P226, P228, P229, P239, P2022. Avoid P250, P224, P290, P227 (too new)), HK, Glock, Springfield, S&W and Kahr. There are other brands that are good, but these stick out as the top brands.

You should have no trouble concealing a Glock 19. Get a holster with good forward cant to mitigate printing out back. Buy a gun belt and two single magazine belt holders (DeSantis FTU holders work well). If you insist upon a small gun, then the Glock 26 is an excellent choice. I find mine to be very accurate and you can use Glock 19 mags with them.

Glock 26 with Glock 19 magazine and A&G Grip Adaptor
http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb425/tomrkba/firearms/semi-autos/glock26/glock26-800x600.jpg


RE: Remington R-51

It is a new gun and there are bound to be bugs. Do not be a beta tester. Wait two years before purchasing one. For defense, buy something with an established track record. I have jumped on the bandwagon too many times only to wish I had that $500-600 back.

Mat, not doormat
January 21, 2014, 08:02 PM
TomRKBA nailed it, said what I was trying to. Take heed!

fanchisimo
January 21, 2014, 10:19 PM
I have to agree with Torian, a self defense class is not a bad idea, but hardly necessary. I have never had one, and am pretty much self taught. I spent a lot of time watching videos about proper stance, grip, and other various shooting techniques. Be sure to practice when you're at home with a cleared pistol. While I would love to have the time and be able to afford to shoot 10k rounds, that's not realistic at $.30-.40 a round and school/work. So in summation, be sure to practice as best as you can.

Some slimmer grip pistols that I would recommend:
Ruger SR9c or SR40c (what I currently carry)
CZ75 P07 (has a really comfortable grip)
M&Pc

I would also recommend an Alien Gear holster. Mine has been great and costs far less than other similar holsters.
www.aliengearholsters.com

Happy shooting.

Torian
January 21, 2014, 11:05 PM
If you feel in danger, the absolute best action you can take right now is buy a gun...RIGHT NOW. Go to the gun store, and see what feels good in your hands. Want to learn how to drive? Get in the car and start driving. Worry about "training" at a later date.

Tomrkba: 10,000 rounds in a year or so? I don't think I've shot 10,000 rounds of handgun ammo in the last 10 years. Where do you come up with these numbers?

Mastrogiacomo
January 21, 2014, 11:26 PM
I've always felt that if you can't conceal a Glock 26, you have no business carrying. I say that at 5'2" and 125. What's most important is how the gun feels to shoot and whether you can practice comfortably. Glock 26, S&W 36, SP101, Sig 239, used S&W 3913, S&W 908, are all great choices...and it's all in how you carry it. Don't limit yourself.


Laura

JoeH
January 21, 2014, 11:39 PM
I'm 5' 5"
The Glock 26 works great for me

hentown
January 22, 2014, 08:10 AM
[QUOTE][Quote:
A 380 is better than nothing, a 9mm is better than a 380, a 40 is better than a 9mm and the 45 reigns supreme.
What? A little humor?/QUOTE]

Seemingly, but apparently replete with a plethora of ignorance, also. :evil:

Mike1234567
January 22, 2014, 10:42 AM
...

kvtcomdo
January 24, 2014, 12:06 AM
Your 1st handgun should be a revolver.

The Ruger LCR or SP 101 or a S&W J frame revolvers would be my 1st choice.

Idiot proof, utterly reliable and if you become interested semi auto's can be considered but require a level of interest and training that few are ready for.

It seems sexy and seductive to go for the latest and greatest semi auto but: do you know how to clear a jam? They wil occur and one must be prepared for it @ the worst possible time. A revolver just says "pull the trigger again" and BANG it goes off.

Recommend a 357 mag and carry 38+P.

Just my $.02

Derry 1946
January 24, 2014, 09:35 PM
Welcome to The High Road. There's certainly been a lot of sound advice on this thread. The auto vs. revolver debate is timeless. You can find examples of either that will readily conceal on a compact frame with a proper holster and a quality belt, and suitable attire. I usually carry a .38 sp 6-shot revolver for its simplicity, reliability, and ease of operation. At what I believe are relevant distances, I get good results with it at the range and with some rudimentary drills. I am no ninja, but I practice regularly. I would add only that I believe that situational awareness is the best defense against unpleasantness. Avoid dangerous situations as best you can (poorly lit areas; late night liquor stores...) and keep alert. So many people walk around with their noses in their phones! Keeping your eyes open will cut down on being taken by surprise.

Welcome again, and be safe.

Derry

tomrkba
January 24, 2014, 10:05 PM
Tomrkba: 10,000 rounds in a year or so? I don't think I've shot 10,000 rounds of handgun ammo in the last 10 years. Where do you come up with these numbers?

I am looking at his or her level of dedication to pistolcraft. 10k rounds is easy to do. The round count is not the point; anyone can turn cash into brass. Someone who is willing to attend courses, buy reloading gear, spend the time reloading and dry fire several times a week is far more prepared than someone who has not done any of that. How can anyone honestly say otherwise?

In a recent "Level 2" style course, some "advanced" shooters were:

1) Pointing the muzzle at their belly/hip when holstering.
2) Changing their grip to holster the gun by placing the thumb under the tang of the weapon and fingers over the top of the slide.
3) Shooting one foot groups or larger at seven yards.
4) Demonstrating incorrect grip, trigger finger placement and complete lack of follow through.
5) Using malfunctioning guns that could not get through a magazine without jamming.
6) Flinching and/or anticipating recoil.

The instructor corrected them, of course. Some of them were hopeless, but others cleaned up their shooting quite well.

Of course, many of these guys claimed decades of experience and recited their years of military or police service, awards and so forth. Their targets reflected their actual experience level.

How far is the OP willing to go?


If you feel in danger, the absolute best action you can take right now is buy a gun...RIGHT NOW. Go to the gun store, and see what feels good in your hands. Want to learn how to drive? Get in the car and start driving. Worry about "training" at a later date.


I generally disagree with this, but urgency may dictate such an action. However, doing so can be very dangerous to a person who has no handgun experience at all. It is their right; however, and I support it on that basis alone. It is also their responsibility to do things properly as safely as possible.

Go to the gun store, and see what feels good in your hands

This often results in a bad purchase. They have a gun, but they have no idea what attributes they need other than the bullet will exit the muzzle and another shot will be available. It will likely be a gun "sold" to them by the gun store employee because that was the special that week or old stock that needed to be moved (I've watched it happen before, and I'll watch it happen again. I just give them the card of a local trainer and hope they take a class).


I have to agree with Torian, a self defense class is not a bad idea, but hardly necessary. I have never had one, and am pretty much self taught. I spent a lot of time watching videos about proper stance, grip, and other various shooting techniques. Be sure to practice when you're at home with a cleared pistol. While I would love to have the time and be able to afford to shoot 10k rounds,


The purpose of defensive pistol training is to impart baseline knowledge, skills and attitude necessary to increase the odds of success in the fight on the street and in court. Additional training will improve those skills while adding new ones, or refreshing skills that have become stale. It will teach the shooter his or her capabilities with the gun and gear while instilling confidence.

Basic proficiency in target shooting is not the same as knowing combat shooting, tactics, shooting from retention and other positions, rapid or burst fire (controlled pairs, double taps, hearts-n-minds, zippers), malfunction clearance, proper reloading techniques, drawing while moving, shooting while moving, handling the police, handling witnesses, finding a good defense attorney, force on force, legal issues, gun and gear selection, awareness, proper practice (and dry fire) and a bunch of other skills I didn't list.

The fast way to acquire baseline proficiency in many of those skills is in a two to five day defensive handgun course. I spent my first three years of handgunning as a "self-taught" shooter. I was on a very long plateau with my skills and I couldn't get past it. I attended Firearms, Research and Instruction, Inc's "Level 2 Handgun" course. Steve Silverman halved my group sizes and doubled my speed in two hours of range time after two hours of lecture. The rest of the course was tactics, handling the police and so forth. He instructed me in methods for proper practice and gave me a practice regimen. My skills vastly improved in the six months between courses.

It may not be "necessary", but it certainly makes quite a bit of sense to attend training regularly. Besides, there's a secret weapon: training is fun!

Mitlov
January 24, 2014, 10:28 PM
As a relatively new shooter myself, I thought I was looking for something along the lines of a J-frame. Until I shot one. The short sight radius, snappy recoil, and long-and-heavy trigger made it unpleasant to shoot and very difficult to shoot accurately. Since it was both painful and frustrating to shoot, I'm not sure how much practice I'd have gotten out of it had I actually bought one.

Of the guns I've shot, I've found a 1911 an absolute pleasure to shoot and build skill with, but too big to be a conceal carry gun. The Ruger LC9 obviously wasn't as fun as a 1911, but it was just as concealable as a Smith & Wesson J-frame, cheaper, far easier to shoot accurately, and not at all painful to shoot (in my opinion).

My biggest take-away was trying out several guns before buying anything. I nearly up and bought a Ruger LCR (similar to the J-frame) before I went with a friend to a gravel pit to try out his selection, and what I thought I'd love I hated, and vice versa.

WinThePennant
January 25, 2014, 11:19 AM
My gut feeling is that you'll like the S&W Shield (9mm) or the Springfield Armory XDs (9mm).

They are both spectacular carry guns that are ideal for people with smaller hands and body size (you offered that you are 5' 4").

CZ223
January 25, 2014, 01:41 PM
7) Caliber-notice that this is far from the top of the list but I am still a bigger is better kind of guy.

A 380 is better than nothing, a 9mm is better than a 380, a 40 is better than a 9mm and the 45 reigns supreme.

Actually, I don't think there is anything wrong with a 9mm and I think that the Glock 23 in 40 S&W might possibly be the perfect combination of size, capacity and power.

Still, I carry a commander sized 1911 all day for a few reasons but the biggest is that I have a great holster for it, a Milt Sparks VMII and I don't have one for the Glock yet.

It seems that some of you chose to focus only on the second sentence, which was tongue in cheek, as pointed out in the third sentence. If you had read the third sentence you would see that I believe the 9mm and the 40 S&W are perfectly suitable for defensive carry. I also believe that the 380 is minimal for the job but usually beats a sharp stick in the eye. I gave both my daughter and my wife an LCP so they could always have a gun with them. I also gave my daughter an LC9 because I believe the 9mm is a much better round than the 380 and it is small enough that she might actually carry it.

Given a choice between the 9mm and the 40 S&W in the same size package, I will choose the 40 each and every time. I know this because I have a Glock 19, a Glock 23 and , a Glock 32. When carrying one of these for self defense I always take the 40 with 2 less rounds than the 9mm.

I believe the 40 S&W is at least equal to, and maybe a little better than, the 45 ACP. Still, I choose to carry a 4" 1911 with 9 rounds of 45 in the gun, and another 16 on my hip, for a few reasons. The first of which is, I shoot the 1911 better. Not a whole lot better, but a little. It is the gun that shoot in IDPA matches, and that makes me more proficient with it. Second, the 1911 is a little thinner, though it weighs almost a full pound more than my Glock 23, loaded with 14 rounds of 40 S&W. Third, and this may be the biggest reason, I don't have a great holster, like my VMII, for it yet. When I do, I am sure that I will carry it more often.

Why didn't I mention revolver calibers like 38, 357 etc? Because I don't consider small, concealable revolvers, a good choice for a newbie. I know that runs contrary to what a lot of you believe , but that is my opinion. First, small revolvers often have lousy triggers and lousy sights. Shooting a small revolver well, or any small gun for that matter, takes a lot of practice. Second, capacity, if you are limited to five or six rounds you had better be able to shoot the gun well. Even with their lousy triggers I think the nod goes to the LCP, Kel-Tec 380, LC9 and the Kel-Tec 9 for their extra few rounds. Third, concealabality, It is my belief that a flat semi-auto is much easier to conceal than a revolver. I will admit that it is much easier to use a revolver than an a semi-auto. In fact, if the OP were asking for a home defense handgun, my first choice would be 4"-6" revolver in 357 mag/38 special. But, these guns, like the S&W 686, have better triggers, better sights, longer sight radius and, more weight, which make them more shootable. Flame on.:evil:

CZ223
January 25, 2014, 01:50 PM
I wish I had read Mitlov's post before writing my last post, it might have saved me some time. He is absolutely right.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 25, 2014, 08:01 PM
I live in a very small rural area. I understand your situation. I have had a concealed carry for a few years now. My area was a safe place but is now more and more overrun with drugs. My area now has crime, murders and more drugs than you can shake a stick at. Go get training and then get your CCW. Make sure to train with it. Without training the CCW permit will do you no good. I have seen trained people panic and not be able to hit a car door sized target at 25 feet. Practice,practice,practice.....

RussellC
January 25, 2014, 10:26 PM
I live in a very small rural area. I understand your situation. I have had a concealed carry for a few years now. My area was a safe place but is now more and more overrun with drugs. My area now has crime, murders and more drugs than you can shake a stick at. Go get training and then get your CCW. Make sure to train with it. Without training the CCW permit will do you no good. I have seen trained people panic and not be able to hit a car door sized target at 25 feet. Practice,practice,practice.....
Lot of wisdom here. When it happens, adrenaline dumps, mind wants to freeze, mag empty before you realize you are shooting, fine motor skills disappear on you. Prepare for this situation!

stevek
January 25, 2014, 11:15 PM
Just something to consider, the Walther PPS, and for that matter H&K, require a different motion/muscle memory for magazine changes from Glock, S&W M&P etc. If carrying for personal defense, it might be best to NOT mix and match without extensive training...

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 25, 2014, 11:53 PM
I have a handgun in reach at ALL times. Two things I learned throughout my career. 1. Always know what can go wrong will, so practice,practice, practice. I am talking blindfolded jams and magazine exchanges. Running a half mile as hard as you can to have a friend setup pop up targets somewhere to scare the crap out of you. 2. The best laid plans work great until the first drop of adrenaline pumps or the first round is fired. Then it goes back to training..practice...practice..practice.. I know I sound like a broken record, but it is a number 1 hit. Shoot any firearm you have available and practice different things. Try your best to get you adrenaline pumping and practice hard then. Did I ever mention how I wish Atropine was legal for training..lol j/k...well sorta.

788Ham
January 26, 2014, 12:38 AM
Post #51 had some sage advice, he beat me to it. Checkout the Ruger SP 101 revolver, 2" or 3" barrel lengths , .357 mag. A medium weight revolver, easy to conceal outside the waist carry mode. Can practice with .38 Spl loads, easier to control until you get proficient with it, then like has been said numerous times, practice, practice, practice ! In a pancake style holster, it will be out of sight, no one will know its there but you. Welcome to THR !

Torian
January 26, 2014, 12:45 PM
I am looking at his or her level of dedication to pistolcraft. 10k rounds is easy to do. The round count is not the point; anyone can turn cash into brass. Someone who is willing to attend courses, buy reloading gear, spend the time reloading and dry fire several times a week is far more prepared than someone who has not done any of that. How can anyone honestly say otherwise?

In a recent "Level 2" style course, some "advanced" shooters were:

1) Pointing the muzzle at their belly/hip when holstering.
2) Changing their grip to holster the gun by placing the thumb under the tang of the weapon and fingers over the top of the slide.
3) Shooting one foot groups or larger at seven yards.
4) Demonstrating incorrect grip, trigger finger placement and complete lack of follow through.
5) Using malfunctioning guns that could not get through a magazine without jamming.
6) Flinching and/or anticipating recoil.

The instructor corrected them, of course. Some of them were hopeless, but others cleaned up their shooting quite well.

Of course, many of these guys claimed decades of experience and recited their years of military or police service, awards and so forth. Their targets reflected their actual experience level.

How far is the OP willing to go?




I generally disagree with this, but urgency may dictate such an action. However, doing so can be very dangerous to a person who has no handgun experience at all. It is their right; however, and I support it on that basis alone. It is also their responsibility to do things properly as safely as possible.



This often results in a bad purchase. They have a gun, but they have no idea what attributes they need other than the bullet will exit the muzzle and another shot will be available. It will likely be a gun "sold" to them by the gun store employee because that was the special that week or old stock that needed to be moved (I've watched it happen before, and I'll watch it happen again. I just give them the card of a local trainer and hope they take a class).




The purpose of defensive pistol training is to impart baseline knowledge, skills and attitude necessary to increase the odds of success in the fight on the street and in court. Additional training will improve those skills while adding new ones, or refreshing skills that have become stale. It will teach the shooter his or her capabilities with the gun and gear while instilling confidence.

Basic proficiency in target shooting is not the same as knowing combat shooting, tactics, shooting from retention and other positions, rapid or burst fire (controlled pairs, double taps, hearts-n-minds, zippers), malfunction clearance, proper reloading techniques, drawing while moving, shooting while moving, handling the police, handling witnesses, finding a good defense attorney, force on force, legal issues, gun and gear selection, awareness, proper practice (and dry fire) and a bunch of other skills I didn't list.

The fast way to acquire baseline proficiency in many of those skills is in a two to five day defensive handgun course. I spent my first three years of handgunning as a "self-taught" shooter. I was on a very long plateau with my skills and I couldn't get past it. I attended Firearms, Research and Instruction, Inc's "Level 2 Handgun" course. Steve Silverman halved my group sizes and doubled my speed in two hours of range time after two hours of lecture. The rest of the course was tactics, handling the police and so forth. He instructed me in methods for proper practice and gave me a practice regimen. My skills vastly improved in the six months between courses.

It may not be "necessary", but it certainly makes quite a bit of sense to attend training regularly. Besides, there's a secret weapon: training is fun!

Tom, you are clearly far more into shooting at a much more intense level than I've ever been. I respect that. If that's what you feel that YOU need, and you have the money, time, and effort to put into it...then go for it. I also echo that for the OP. Although...since the OP has no experience to draw from, I feel compelled to reiterate mine. I can also tell you that you have shot far more than I....and this is coming from someone who carries a rifle and a handgun as duty weapons in multiple combat zones around the world.

If the OP is worried about his life being in danger, then my FIRST thought is addressing that need, and training is secondary. The universal constant here is that the man needs a firearm to defend himself. I'm an strong advocate of our citizens exercising their 2nd amendment rights with ZERO strings attached. When we start imposing training and qualification requirements (as some states have already done), we are creating barriers to gun owners exercising their rights. Elite professional training using thousands of rounds is hardly a requirement to be proficient with a firearm. Fun...maybe...beneficial...certainly....a requirement...absolutely not. A recommendation for sure...but far too over-hyped for my taste. If he wants it, then I'd say go for it, but I won't push anyone into training that wants to carry a weapon for personal protection.

Ala Tom
January 26, 2014, 07:06 PM
I think you need to study all this advice and then do some thinking. It is not a bad idea to get a gun soon if it will give you some piece of mind. But if you have other people living with you, consider that they could get hurt by a gun, especially if they are little people.

You can probably find lots of safe places to shoot for practice (a field near a steep hill that will stop your bullets, etc.) An indoor shooting range where you can shoot targets at a distance of 25-35 ft is a good place. The best place would be a range where you can rent guns to try. Your local sheriff would be a good person to recommend a shooting range or area. He is also the person who will grant you permission to carry a concealed gun. Try various guns until you find one that you like.

Your threat is very poorly defined. Some guy shot a woman driving a car at a stop sign. (You only have one of those signs in your county? Sounds like an easy place to avoid!) Why did he do that? what makes you think he'd shoot you? "Random" shootings are pretty rare.

Don't think you need a really small gun just because you are smaller than a football lineman. Many people of average size or smaller can carry a gun concealed. I looked at very small guns, sometimes called "mouse guns" and settled for a medium-small gun. I concluded that 1) you need at least a 9 mm cartridge for adequate protection. 2) You need a gun with some heft so it does not jump out of your hand. I rented and fired several guns including the Glock 26 you mentioned. I found it hard to shoot accurately but concluded maybe I could shoot better with a lot of practice. Then I shot a Ruger SR9c and found I could shoot it accurately with very little practice. It felt great in my small-medium size hand. When I had the money and was ready to buy one, I found they had also a SR40c which cost only a few dollars more, was exactly the same size as the 9c and shot the Smith&Wesson .40 cal load which was much more powerful than the 9 mm. I am very happy with this choice.

Once when I was told a jealous stranger was coming after me with a gun, I strapped on the Ruger SR40c. (I had the concealed handgun permit for my state.) I did not know the people involved, but felt better with the gun concealed on my waist. Well, "better" is not the right word. I felt nervous because having a gun on your waist for real is a big responsibility. Anything you do with the gun outside its holster can get you in serious trouble. You can shoot only if you are clearly in danger from an armed person.

BLB68
January 27, 2014, 02:12 AM
Horse escaped barn. Need barn door latch.

Just because there was a shooting doesn't mean there's an urgent need to get armed. My advice is to take it slowly enough to do it right. Start with a basic class, then hit a rental range, as others suggested.

Also, you'd be surprised at what someone who's 5'4" can conceal. Err on the side of getting a gun that you can shoot well over going for the smallest size possible.

For caliber, I suggest 9mm. It's still the least expensive centerfire pistol round available, which means you can afford more practice. The power level of all service calibers is on par, and it's not a very high level. You'll likely need to put multiple hits on target with any handgun, and the 9mm will provide faster, more accurate follow up shots, especially for a beginner.

Finally, work on your situational awareness and social skills to avoid having to use the thing if at all possible. Don't be taken in by sob stories, or snuck up on while fueling your car or bringing in your groceries. Don't get into unnecessary verbal altercations that could escalate. Avoid any kind of road rage, whether your own or others' if at all possible. Learn the laws for your area, and more importantly, how they are actually enforced.

Good luck. Stay safe.

Tirod
January 27, 2014, 09:39 AM
BLB68 has just touched the surface of what is the real truth.

Had the OP been armed and even aware the incident could happen, he may have been totally unsuccessful in preventing it. We don't know the cause of the shooter's problem, maybe it would have reduced the odds of shooting the other person by half because he would now have two targets to choose from.

If you get shot first, your gun will be no good. If you have to walk thru life assessing each footstep as if you are on combat patrol, you will be adding to the breakdown of polite society. We don't need paranoid extremists ready to whip out a gun at the first mistaken sign of armed aggression.

And yet that is exactly what some propose should be done as a "professional" answer. Well, no.

What has really happened is the average soul no longer gets even polite respect in the mass attempt by ourselves to socially climb over each other's back to prove we are better. It's what I call the "jockstrap" mentality. Everybody talks about how they are better than the other guy. Nobody gives a rat's donkey about how the other guy is constantly belittled and emasculated by life around him. He drives a lame car, dresses like a homeless illegitimate, cannot talk, look, or do anything successful. His supervisor's berate him and never compliment him on his work ( a universal fact these days, ) his female companion send subtle cues he's a failure, his kids if any never brag about their dads accomplishments and keep their mouth shut.

Something in the fabric of his life breaks down beyond his limit - his self esteem gets stomped one too many times - and he incorrectly(?) blames society around him as the cause. Sure, it might be completely true he's a loser. Go ahead, rub it in his face every day.

You never will be able to tell when he happens by with a gun to end his suffering. And it might be to start someone else's. Why not? Nobody gave him any consideration.

Arming up won't fix it. At best you have a 50% chance of walking away, regardless. About now most are starting to get their blood pressure up, elbows flexing to beat their chests, jump on the keyboard, and explain what a CCW Commando they are and how their choice of gun will reign supreme in some story they fabricate justifying it all.

Nope. The gun is as much a talisman as carrying a lucky rabbit's foot to ward off evil. I didn't invent the idea, just read it this morning on another thread here.

First, it will make no difference what gun or what caliber, how you carry it, how many hours of training, if you are LEO, prior military, or not. You have to see it coming first, and that takes having an paranoid attitude that somebody is out there to get you at any minute. Anything less is weak and will lead directly to your death.

Is that a healthy attitude? Nope. Sorry. I'm calling the gun bunnies out on that. It's as sick as the guy trolling for someone to shoot - it IS trolling for someone to shoot. It's why cops have to have extensive psych testing in the better LEO academies, the city doesn't need a shooter in the ranks. Same as the military, "Send me to the war zone" is usually a sign Command has an future atrocity to deal with. Not good.

Just signing up for carry means you have likely reduced your risk in gaining the attention of a shooter. They are looking for the truly helpless to prey on, if you look capable they sidestep for a weaker victim because it sends a bigger message. It's retribution and terrorism all rolled into one, "You failed to protect me, therefore I will make you all regret it."

Buy all the guns you want, it won't change the crappy way people treat each other out in public, or how they trash talk coworkers, or cut someone off in traffic/drive distracted on the smart phone. It won't stop them making snide remarks about how others dress or what their social status is. We as a people in America are now so conditioned to stratify ourselves according to material wealth that it's no wonder some go off the deep end. The game was too much, we pointedly made them the losers.

The problem is that we are creating the problem, not fixing it. Another gun won't, it really won't have much affect either way. What we need to do is give each other some space.

For a good example of the kind of public trash talk we indulge in, check a lot of threads right here. We might call it High Road, explain what that really means and everybody checks out. It would be too lame to admit it.

Mitlov
January 27, 2014, 11:25 AM
Just because there was a shooting doesn't mean there's an urgent need to get armed. My advice is to take it slowly enough to do it right. Start with a basic class, then hit a rental range, as others suggested.


I personally agree with this. When I got interested in beginning to conceal-carry, after shooting a bunch of handguns a friend had and realizing that a lightweight snubnose is extremely difficult to shoot accurately, I got a gun for range use and started training there. I've got the CHL but I'm not going to start carrying until I feel I can both operate the weapon instinctively and shoot it accurately. Just my feelings on the issue.

BLB68
January 27, 2014, 11:36 AM
I've been kind of under the weather, so I forgot to add: Get as much training as you can afford. Others already covered that point well, though. As tomrkba points out, a little bit of quality training can go pretty far. It's good to establish good habits early on.

welshdude
January 28, 2014, 03:07 AM
Around this time last year my wife and I decided to obtain our CCPs as there have been a rash of inexplicable shootings of late in the area in which we reside. Like you we live as rural as one can get, but frequently find ourselves having to make trips into 'town'. We're well armed in regards to our house, so that's not an issue.

As a completely inexperienced gun owner I purchased a Kel-Tec P11 at a local gun show. Paid more than I would now, but as it's had over 400 flawless rounds w/very little maintenance it's earned it's keep. I'd never fired a HG bfore in my life and only put 20 rounds through it before our CCP class.

They're inexpensive, but as solid a 9mm as you'll find. One can purchase one used from a private individual for as little as 225.00, but they usually run from 250-350 w/extra mags, holsters, ammo, etc as part of the deal(s). 9mm is just about the cheapest, most readily available round out there nowadays. Be forwarned. They're not range guns or safe queens. They're utilitarian, functional and a little weighty for a polymer pistol.

Another Kel-Tec getting alot of run these days is the PF9. It's slightly longer than the P11, but thinner and lighter. They're both double-action only triggers w/t PF9 at 7 lbs and the P11 at 9 lbs. The advantage in a DAO trigger w/a stout pull is less likelyhood of accidental discharge and one can carry one 'in the pipe'. They're both 'point and shoot' pistols. Racking the slide or fooling w/a thumb safety in a high-stress life/death situation is the LAST thing with which one needs to be concerned. The PF9 is 7+1 and the P11 is 10+1.

Anyway, as others have suggested try as many as possible at gun ranges, personal friends' hgs, etc. Weigh the virtues and limitations of all. Check out Hickok45 or Sootch00's video reviews on youtube of various hgs. They're well versed, entertaining and educational. When one starts to investigate the number of options there are in CCWs it's easy to get a case of sensory overload.

Afa revolvers the Ruger LCR in .22 mag is a pretty good SD round, but expensive. Better off w/a .38 or .357 in the same size revolver. Easier to find ammo. The S&W 'hammerless' small frames are really good as well. They're very small revolvers, but are huge when compared to many semi-autos in .380 or 9mm.

All the best in your search and welcome to THR.

justice06rr
January 28, 2014, 03:23 AM
Glock26 should work well for you. Good luck in finding one and be safe.

Fiv3r
January 28, 2014, 08:29 AM
I was in a similar frame of mind when I became interested in carrying a firearm. My place of business was broken into and set on fire. They never caught the culprit.

I actually started carrying an 870 shotgun in a case into work most days as I work late often and my family owns the business. That was impractical.

I soon went out and purchased an SR9 and several hundred rounds of ammo. I got some rudimentary training from a customer of mine who is an NRA handgun instructor.

After about 2 weeks I felt comfortable enough to carry the gun and shoot it well.

Welding Rod
January 28, 2014, 10:09 PM
My advice is to get a gun that you will have confidence in when you unexpectedly and abruptly find yourself believing that you very well are about to be involved in a life and death encounter.

If this happens the last thing you want occupying your mind is regret at not having brought enough gun.

The pocket gun that brings a nice comforting feeling when it is not needed, can bring loads of remorse when you suddenly, honestly, believe that it is.

PabloJ
January 28, 2014, 11:11 PM
I don't want to buy another caliber and want night sights on new slim gun so I'm looking very hard at Walther PPS. I don't seem to remember recalls on handguns made in Germany and sale price of $550 seems pretty reasonable. I would take real hard look at that model gun.

mike28w
January 29, 2014, 12:26 PM
What do you mean "only 5'4"" ?? You've got 2" on me ! :) I've owned and carried handguns for years.
I agree with many of the thigs that other folks have written, but from a short guy's perspective:
It's not so much how tall you are but how large your hands are. The lighter the gun, the more recoil you'll feel and the harder it is to shoot accurately. It's always a trade-off.
It's always in your best interest to handle and shoot ( if possible) guns that you are considering. My own experience has been that no matter how many times that I've tried to like Glocks ( great design), I could never find one that would fit my hand. For concealed carry , I've had good luck with the Kahr PM9, Smith&Wesson M&P compact 9mm, Springfield XDs 45.... I suspect that the S&W Shield would be a nice little gun to carry but don't have one. Most of my carry guns are 9mm ( I work in an operating room....I can't see any real difference between 9mm wounds and 45.)
If you get a smaller gun, you need to be willing to practice regularly. It's a skill that evaporates with time. Take at least one course, more is better. If you carry a 9mm....buy good quality self defense ammo...NOT full metal jacket.

The gun that this short guy with small hands has settled on ??? Kahr PM9 loaded with Gold Dots 124gr +p.
A kahr P9 ( polymer) or K9 ( metal) , both are slightly larger and heavier would be better for a beginner.

Be safe, mike

PS: have you noticed that we all seem to give long answers.......it's not an easy topic to discuss....

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