Background check to pick my gun up from gunsmith?


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Ironclad
January 22, 2014, 09:37 PM
I took a used rifle bought at a big outdoors store back on a warranty issue. They sent it off to a gunsmith for repair. They finally got it back this week and my wife went to pick it up. I didn't figure that they'd give it to her anyway, but they told her not only that I have to pick it up myself, but they have to run another NICS check on me. Not that it really matters to me, but is this actually a legal requirement? I am in West Virginia.

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Gaiudo
January 22, 2014, 09:50 PM
Not only do you not have to have another background check, your wife can also pick it up for repairs. I've no idea what they're talking about.

ETA: my bad. From 478.124 Firearms transaction record:
That a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition made of a firearm delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing when such firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received.

Looks like your wife would have required a NICS, but not you.

Ironclad
January 22, 2014, 10:30 PM
I know that's true in general, I was just wondering if there was a West Virginia state law about it or something. I just figured for their own liability reasons they would at least want to give it back to me instead of my wife, so I can't come back later and say it never got to me.

Kp321
January 22, 2014, 10:38 PM
The person who left the gun for repair can pick it up, no questions. If anyone else picks it up it requires a 4473 and background check.

JRH6856
January 22, 2014, 10:56 PM
As I understand it, if you take the gun in for repair or ship it directly to the gunsmith (which you can do because he has an FFL) there is no need for a NICS check. But if you take it to an FFL and he has to send it to another FFL, the transfers must be entered in the bound book of each FFL when possession changes. This breaks your "owenership" (for lask of a better term) and you must do a 4473 and NICS to receive the gun.

newfalguy101
January 22, 2014, 10:59 PM
Not only do you not have to have another background check, your wife can also pick it up for repairs. I've no idea what they're talking about.
Nope.

The guy who dropped it of wont have to do a 4473 or background check as its being returned to the SAME person who dropped it off.

His wife would have to do a 4473 and background check since she did NOT drop it off.

Gaiudo
January 22, 2014, 11:28 PM
In the future just have them mail it directly back to you. No need to go through an FFL for repairs.

Arizona_Mike
January 23, 2014, 12:20 AM
Unless there is a state issue he can pick it up without a Form 4473. She can pick it up for him with a Form 4473.

From the ATF web page (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html):
Q: Is an ATF Form 4473 required when a gunsmith returns a repaired firearm?
No, provided the firearm is returned to the person from whom it was received. [27 CFR 478.124(a)]
Right from the Form 4473 (http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf) itself:
If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.
Mike

Gaiudo
January 23, 2014, 12:34 AM
never mind... answered my own question.

NavyLCDR
January 23, 2014, 11:41 AM
As I understand it, if you take the gun in for repair or ship it directly to the gunsmith (which you can do because he has an FFL) there is no need for a NICS check. But if you take it to an FFL and he has to send it to another FFL, the transfers must be entered in the bound book of each FFL when possession changes. This breaks your "owenership" (for lask of a better term) and you must do a 4473 and NICS to receive the gun.
Your understanding would be in error. FFL #1 logs the firearm into their bound book as being received from Joe Snuffy (for the sole purpose of customization or repair). They log it out as going to FFL #2. FFL #2 logs the firearm into their bound book as being received from FFL #1. After the customization or repair, FFL #2 logs the gun out as being returned to FFL #1. FFL #1 logs the gun in as being received from FFL #2, and logs it out as returned to the original owner.

During an audit, the first set of entries for the gun can be matched to the second set of entries for the gun and it can be established that the gun was returned to the original owner it was received from, in compliance with 27 CFR 478.124.

My wife (at the time, now ex) took a handgun to a large retail chain store to return to the manufacturer for warranty repairs. We asked, "Is this going to be a problem that she does not have an ID card or driver's license to prove she is a resident of this state when the gun comes back?" They replied, "No problem at all, no paperwork is required to returnt the handgun to her." They sent it off to Taurus, who returned it to the store, who returned it to my ex wife, even though she could have actually bought the gun from them because she could not prove she was a resident of the state the gun store was in.

natman
January 23, 2014, 11:54 AM
The shop is mistaken, except in the unlikely event there's some state law in the way.

It's perfectly OK to return gunsmithing guns to the owner directly without a 4473. In the shop where I worked we kept a separate bound book for gunsmithing jobs with two lines for each gun. One line was owner to gunsmith and the second was gunsmith to owner. This made is easy to track where a gunsmithing gun was and kept the transactions with no matching 4473 separate.

NavyLCDR
January 23, 2014, 12:48 PM
In fact, woudn't it be illegal for the gun store to do a NICS check for a transaction that did not require one?

Carl N. Brown
January 23, 2014, 01:01 PM
Some states have a firearms background check that goes through the state police first for local wants and warrants then through the NICS.

Arizona_Mike
January 23, 2014, 02:32 PM
In fact, woudn't it be illegal for the gun store to do a NICS check for a transaction that did not require one?
I had a very confused shop owner do a NICS on an in-line muzzle loader once "because it has a serial number". :banghead:
It was Florida in the '90s so there was no state issue. He was just very confused.

Mike

stevek
January 23, 2014, 07:30 PM
Not a requirement here for the owner to have a check done to return their own firearm, as long as the person that dropped it off is the same person that's picking it up.

Ironclad
January 23, 2014, 08:20 PM
Hmm. I'll have to bring this up when I go to pick it up. It always bugs me when companies go above and beyond the legal requirements. Like trying to card my friends and family who are with me when I buy ammunition or beer.

NavyLCDR
January 23, 2014, 11:07 PM
Hmm. I'll have to bring this up when I go to pick it up. It always bugs me when companies go above and beyond the legal requirements. Like trying to card my friends and family who are with me when I buy ammunition or beer.

The exact regulation you want is on page 63 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

[27 CFR] 478.124 Firearms transaction record.
(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
or licensed dealer shall not sell or
otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently,
of any firearm to any person, other
than another licensee, unless the licensee
records the transaction on a firearms
transaction record, Form 4473: Provided,
That a firearms transaction record, Form
4473, shall not be required to record the
disposition made of a firearm delivered to
a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or
customizing when such firearm or a replacement
firearm is returned to the person
from whom received.

Neo-Luddite
January 23, 2014, 11:54 PM
While no law may obligate them to do so, some shops do this as a matter of policy and run an NCIS before returning the weapon. If this doesn't suit you, go elsewhere I guess. It's a liability issue in someone's mind it would seem.

Landgroove
January 24, 2014, 12:36 PM
In CA, if the gun is put on ...consignment.... it is DROS'ed when picked up if not sold.

:cuss:

dogtown tom
January 24, 2014, 12:46 PM
Landgroove In CA, if the gun is put on ...consignment.... it is DROS'ed when picked up if not sold.
Federal law requires a 4473/NICS when an unsold gun is returned to the owner from being consigned.

Arkansas Paul
January 24, 2014, 01:21 PM
Hell I sent a gun to Smith and Wesson for repairs and they sent it back to my house via FedEx with nothing but a, "Its fixed. Sorry for your trouble."

Seems that would be much more risky than picking up in person.

Bubbles
January 24, 2014, 04:42 PM
The shop is mistaken, except in the unlikely event there's some state law in the way.
There is no state law in the way, the OP can go pick up his gun without a 4473/BGC.

heyjoe
January 24, 2014, 07:47 PM
Neo-Luddite While no law may obligate them to do so, some shops do this as a matter of policy and run an NCIS before returning the weapon. If this doesn't suit you, go elsewhere I guess. It's a liability issue in someone's mind it would seem.
Yesterday 11:07 PM

in that case that policy should have been made clear to the op when he brought them the gun to work on, rather than hitting them with that when it is time to pick up the gun after it has been worked on.

Neo-Luddite
January 25, 2014, 03:46 PM
heyjoe: Exactly: if the smith/FFL requires a NCIS on pickup as their policy they need to clarify that up front.

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