What lubricant for AR barrel nut?


PDA






Arizona_Mike
January 24, 2014, 01:10 PM
I just learned that common copper based anti-seize compounds contain as much as 10% graphite. Is this a galvanic corrosion concern between aluminum and steel?

I'm wondering if a graphite-free moly grease would be a better choice.

Any recommendations?

Mike

If you enjoyed reading about "What lubricant for AR barrel nut?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
sansone
January 24, 2014, 01:15 PM
I use a few drops of Rem-oil, always got some handy...
or thin (low viscosity) synthetic grease

NeuseRvrRat
January 24, 2014, 01:19 PM
Mobil 1 synthetic grease is the only grease on my gun bench

rcmodel
January 24, 2014, 01:26 PM
Army TM9-1005-249-23P says to use Molybdenum Disulfide grease.

rc

Temp430
January 24, 2014, 02:35 PM
I use Bostik's Blue Moly Never Seez. High moly content, high temp rating, ideal for joining dis-similar metals.

Arizona_Mike
January 24, 2014, 04:57 PM
Army TM9-1005-249-23P says to use Molybdenum Disulfide grease.

rc
Molybdenum disulfide particles in a lithium grease base would be great but which brands have no graphite at all?

Mike

griff383
January 24, 2014, 06:48 PM
Mobil 1 synthetic grease is the only grease on my gun bench

Same here

orionengnr
January 24, 2014, 07:17 PM
Fel-Pro C5a Anti-Seize (a ground copper in an oil suspension) looks an awful lot like the stuff we used to use on aircraft exhaust manifolds. These were multi-part manifolds made of Inconel and were used on 9-cylinder recip engines.

Needless to say, I can't get any of that good old Mil-Spec stuff (been 30-40 years since the military operated recip engines) but those engines were supercharged to 52.5 inches manifold pressure and the exhaust would come out blue at night, like a good cutting torch. Those manifolds would crack from heating and cooling (and vibration), but would come apart smooth as glass.

I use the Fel-Pro stuff on a number of components that are subject to the affects of prolonged heat and heat cycling--exhaust, brakes, wheel studs, etc., and have for years.

I have a hard time imagining that an AR barrel will experience anywhere near that degree of heat, or for anywhere near that long, let alone an equivalent number of heat cycles.

briansmithwins
January 24, 2014, 07:33 PM
Needless to say, I can't get any of that good old Mil-Spec stuff (been 30-40 years since the military operated recip engines) but those engines were supercharged to 52.5 inches manifold pressure and the exhaust would come out blue at night, like a good cutting torch. Those manifolds would crack from heating and cooling (and vibration), but would come apart smooth as glass.

But did they have aluminum and steel in direct contact?

The reason to avoid graphite is that it can set up galvanic corrosion if the barrel nut gets wet.

This grease meets the spec: http://www.skygeek.com/5067068.html

BSW

Sol
January 24, 2014, 07:57 PM
Permatex anti-seize. Contains aluminum, copper and graphite. Says it prevents galvanic corrosion and it's silver (a big plus right?)

Or find a zinc based lube.

carbine85
January 24, 2014, 07:57 PM
You can simplify the whole issue and just use some gun grease. It always works for me. Most guys don't use anything. My Rock River Arms rifle didn't have anything on the threads.

John3921
January 24, 2014, 08:36 PM
Aeroshell 33 (http://qclubricants.com/aeroshell/aeroshell33.htm)

On line, 'Skygeek (http://www.skygeek.com/70024.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_content=70024&utm_campaign=froogle&gclid=CJb6mvuXmLwCFU9yQgodSlcAKg)' is a good source.

GI_Jared
January 24, 2014, 08:42 PM
Loctite 2422

B!ngo
January 24, 2014, 11:45 PM
Mobil 1 synthetic grease is the only grease on my gun bench
Ditto. Great stuff and one can is pretty much a lifetime supply.
B

HOOfan_1
January 25, 2014, 02:20 AM
Umbrella sells much smaller quantities of the Aeroshell

https://www.ucwrg.com/materiel/miscellaneous-components/18/aeroshell-33ms-grease/

1911 guy
January 25, 2014, 05:16 AM
If you look around, there are several moly greases around that have no graphite. I'd give you a brand name, but I'm on the hunt again myself. Just wiped the last bit from a tin I'd been using for several years. It was blue and white. If that helps...

Mohave-Tec
January 25, 2014, 08:31 AM
Permatex anti-seize. It will look and act the same when my guns are found in a cave in 2112.

hentown
January 25, 2014, 05:27 PM
I use Permatex non-metallic anti-seize for the end caps of my suppressor. Made the mistake of using the stuff on a barrel nut, and the nut seized, with very little torque having been applied. I just either synthetic grease or regular old silvery or coppery anti-seize.

RFMan
January 25, 2014, 06:03 PM
I use this: http://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Honda-08734-0001-Moly-Grease/dp/B0083BWUYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390690359&sr=8-1&keywords=honda+moly+grease

orionengnr
January 25, 2014, 08:27 PM
But did they have aluminum and steel in direct contact?

The reason to avoid graphite is that it can set up galvanic corrosion if the barrel nut gets wet.

Not sure that you read (or comprehended) what I posted.

Aluminum and steel in direct contact (by definition) sets up dissimilar metal corrosion. The Mil-Spec stuff stopped it dead in its tracks.

Due to the undesirable properties associated with intense heat (remember that bit about the blue flame out of the short stacks?) the Mil-Spec stuff had no graphite.

We were admonished early on to mark exhaust cracks with permanent marker, grease pencil or chalk.
Doing so with a pencil (graphite) would ensure immediate burn-through.

That was 30 years ago, but the same principles apply today.

Newer aviation anti-seize compounds (designed for turbine engines, which operate at significantly higher temps) use sintered nickel instead of copper. I have a can of that, which I have been using for 10 years or so. I won't use it up before I pass on to my reward.

It will allow you to disassemble parts which have been through thousands of heat cycles (to and above 1000 deg C) without damage or worry.

I'm fairly certain you could buy a ~16 oz can of it for $30-50, and you could put together hundreds (or thousands, or tens of thousands) of ARs with that can.

If you need brand name info, etc, please pm me.

Talk nice, and I might put some in a 35mm film canister and send it to you.

SilentScream
January 25, 2014, 09:24 PM
The only real reason to lubricate the threads of the barrel nut is to prevent galling. Think about it for a second, how many AR owners actually heat up their guns enough to cause issues? The answer is VERY few. Military weapons with F/A capability are another story I've been using Lupus waffenfett on those rifles for a few years now with zero issues. In my time building AR's (since '98) I've used everything from hoppes gun oil to the Lupus waffenfett and Liqui-moly mil-tec I have at my shop currently. They all pretty well do what's needed.

M1key
January 25, 2014, 09:27 PM
n/a

JonB
January 25, 2014, 09:42 PM
I couldn't find any moly grease locally without buying a 1 lb or more tub. I did find Permatex ultra synthetic disc brake lube in a single use packet for $1.50 so that's what I used on the reciever extension and will use it on the barrel nut.

MistWolf
January 25, 2014, 11:53 PM
Don't use anything with copper or graphite. Graphite causes embrittlement and copper causes electrolytic with aluminum. Since copper is the cathode and aluminum the anode in this combination, it will ruin the aluminum. Boeing tech data strictly forbids using copper anti-seize with aluminum parts for this reason.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yY4uYhynwG4/SffdvraPsRI/AAAAAAAAAVY/9G3PTKovZXQ/s400/galvanic+corrosion.jpg
Some reading for those who wish to know more about galvanic corrosion
http://www.corrosionist.com/Steel_Aluminum_Galvanic_Corrosion.html
http://aluminumsurface.blogspot.com/search/label/Corrosion

Thread lube not only helps to prevent galling but reduces stiction between the barrel nut and receiver to get a more accurate torque reading. It also helps the threads mate better so they hold better. Not using grease increases the chance the threads will bind on tightening and will slip later resulting in a loose barrel nut.

You can get away with not using thread lube but it's foolish not to when considering the advantages and potential problems. Aluminum threads are easily damaged and once damaged, don't hold very well

hentown
January 26, 2014, 09:03 AM
When the barrel nut seized on me, using the Permatex anti-seize, I tore up the barrel nut, using a conventional barren nut wrench, trying to remove the nut.

Had to resort to a pipe wrench, in order to remove the nut. Fortunately, the receiver threads weren't damaged.

dprice3844444
January 26, 2014, 09:10 AM
amsoil synthetic wheelbearing grease
silicone grease available at dive shops.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
January 27, 2014, 07:27 AM
The previously stated Aeroshell 33 is the CORRECT answer

mooner
January 27, 2014, 09:22 AM
I use Lucas lithium grease

Tirod
January 27, 2014, 09:59 AM
Much ado about nothing. Use a lube to prevent galling and move on. Don't forget that the upper is anodized, the barrel nut frequently treated, it's not a situation of bare aluminum and steel in extensive contact. It's really minimal.

Who uses and stores their gun for long periods in a wet humid atmosphere?

For those crying wolf about this, check the mounting surface of your styled aluminum wheels mounted to the cast iron brake discs and tell us how much corrosion you see. Think about it, that interface gets 1) hot 2) is exposed to rain and snow salts year round 3) is a precision machined surface on both sides.

Having actually worked on cars, I see very little corrosion evident. Structural damage to the wheels is limited, they are usually clear coated, painted, or other wise treated, I've never seen one affected so badly it had to be discarded. The disc usually wears out in five years, surface rust is common but never a problem other than looks. The rotor surface gets scored and worn to the point they aren't safe to use. The hat, almost nothing.

Corrosion is really minimal, and we are talking aluminum on iron in a severe environment. I can show you pics of the rear differential on my Forester, it's scaling off iron flakes heavily due to ten years of Iowa driving by a previous owner. However, the wheel/disc interface is remarkably corrosion free. It's also tightly joined together under torque.

What antiseize to use on a rifle that will likely never see any extended field weather is really more a point of theoretical discussion. The military came up with their answer knowing that a rifle might be in a demanding environment for a year, maybe more. Our wheels are in a worse environment for ten years, maybe more.

If your Barbie is truly coming apart for the caliber of the month club, you'll get to fix your mistake. If you actually do take it down and find corrosion, post up pics. Even the M16's left with the Montagnards don't see to have that much on them, 45 years later. That anodized and parkerized joint hasn't gone to the point of having the barrel shoot off the end yet.

hentown
January 27, 2014, 11:38 AM
Best advice I could ever give anybody who's seeking advice on a forum like this: Never take advice from anybody who uses 1000 words to say what could have been said in 50! ;)

finnfan
January 27, 2014, 11:11 PM
Why use a substitute when you can get a small container of the mil-spec stuff for a few bucks?

https://www.ucwrg.com/materiel/miscellaneous-components/18/aeroshell-33ms-grease/

cfullgraf
January 28, 2014, 07:52 AM
Here is a source of a lifetime supply of Aeroshell 33MS grease at a lower cost/ounce.. It is probably good for other firearms lubrication needs.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroshellgrease8.php?clickkey=54306

redneck2
January 28, 2014, 11:04 AM
check the mounting surface of your styled aluminum wheels mounted to the cast iron brake discs and tell us how much corrosion you see.I had a Jeep Cherokee. Wheels welded themselves so tight that a tire shop destroyed one trying to get it off to fix a flat. When I took the others off, I had to use alternating penetrating oil and heat to remove them.

Now I use food grade anti-seize and have no problems.

If you enjoyed reading about "What lubricant for AR barrel nut?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!