Alpha Project 9mm revolver


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BCRider
January 24, 2014, 06:53 PM
Looks like my moaning and crying for a moonclip 9mm revolver finally paid off. I just got off the phone with a local dealer and I'm getting one of the newly imported Alpha Project 9mm revolvers.

I did a search here on THR and only found one thread from 2011 about the AP guns. It said that they were coming but that was the end of it. I'm guessing that something fell through and it never worked out?

So once again it looks like poor lil' Canada trumps the US.... :D

The one I'm getting is a 4.5" barrel with a short unfluted cylinder. The slick thing is that because of the cylinder being short and set back the barrel extends back to the face of the cylinder and the amount of the barrel sticking out is more like what you'd expect from a 4" with a regular cylinder.

Fit and finish is reported to be on par with Ruger with a few nods to S&W. I shoot with this guy regularly and know him well enough that when he says something is pretty nice that he's going to underestimate it if anything. And if something is not up to snuff he doesn't pull any punches either. So when he tells me that he is quite impressed then I'm quite impressed.

The other nice thing is that it fires with our without moonclips. The video I've seen from AP doesn't show any whiskers or other tricks for grabbing the rimless grooves so I'm guessing that while it headspaces and fires without the moon clip that it may need a chop stick for extracting unless they are smooth enough to just fall out. Either way it's nice that it's an option.

More details when the transfer is finished and I pick it up sometime in the middle of this coming week. In the meantime here's a picture from the dealer's web site.

http://www.rustywood.ca/forsalepics/AlfaProj/9251CAshortcyl.jpg

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Hometeached1
January 24, 2014, 07:39 PM
Looks nice! Been looking at 9mm j-frames, or how to convert one to 9mm. Hope you enjoy it.

Clippers
January 24, 2014, 09:10 PM
Don't forget to give us a range report.

rcmodel
January 24, 2014, 09:13 PM
Quite frankly, I had never heard of them before.

How much, if you don't mind me asking?

rc

BCRider
January 24, 2014, 09:26 PM
Up this way it's going to run me $560 before our taxes. It'll be spitting distance over $600 once the dust settles. No FFL or other nonsense, just provincial and federal sales taxes. About half the price we pay for a S&W and about 2/3's the prices for a Ruger GP100.

And yes, I'll keep this updated with range reports for all the various styles of shooting from fast action delivery to slow bullseye and rested bullseye.

And being the uncontrollable tinkerer that I am it'll be shortly after the first shooting reports that you'll be seeing pictures of the insides and some basic smoothening up work.... :D

I've got a bucket load of K frame S&W's so I'll post pics of the new AP with them as a size comparison.

Kernel
January 24, 2014, 11:38 PM
Not the ugliest revolver I've ever seen. Parts of it I even like. Made in it the Czech Republic by CZ-Brno? They've cranked out a few guns over the years. Should be interesting.

TennJed
January 25, 2014, 02:10 AM
If I am not mistaken this is the CzechPoint revolvers. There has been a few threads about them under that name on the various boards. The Alpha Project is the model name. Company is CzechPoint.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/alfa-proj-revolvers

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=656034&highlight=czechpoint

BCRider
January 25, 2014, 03:24 AM
Yep, that's them.

Armed with this new name I'm STILL coming up empty for any sort of review. I see references to them being pretty good but nothing by anyone that's held one or shot one or the results.

.... I feel like I'm in Vegas right now and I've pulled the arm and watching the dials go round and round and round an............... :D

This thread may well end up being an interwebz first. An actual hands on review posted by an actual live, rumour has it, owner! ! ! !

Kernel
January 25, 2014, 02:25 PM
Found this tiny pic of the lock-work. Looks vaguely J-frameish.
http://www.targetsportsmagazine.com/js/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/files/2008/March_08/LBR_REVIEW/IMG_0004.jpg

tekarra
January 25, 2014, 05:56 PM
Looking forward to your range report.

BCRider
January 25, 2014, 06:14 PM
So am I... :D

Thanks for that picture Kernel. It's more than I was able to find.

Janos Dracwlya
January 25, 2014, 10:25 PM
Hmmm. I'm interested.

C0untZer0
January 29, 2014, 06:25 PM
No, CzechP0int USA is the importer, AlfaProj is the manufacturer:

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/9-mm-luger

http://www.strelivo-zbrane.cz/zbrane-na-zbrojni-prukaz/revolvery/revolvery-alfa-para-9mm-luger/

Also S&W just released 2 9mm Performance Center revolvers, the 986 and the 929:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_827555_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_827553_-1_757677_757677_757677_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

C0untZer0
January 29, 2014, 06:28 PM
Except you didn't get this through CzechPoint USA did you?

Because for one thing, they are completely out, and for another, they only import the 9231 - the 3" barrel version of the gun, and I asked Dan Brown 6 months ago if he would be importing other models like the 5" or 6" and he said "No"

Who imported this for you?

C0untZer0
January 29, 2014, 06:34 PM
The Alfa Proj revolvers ship with a tool, they call it a loading tube:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=190613&stc=1&d=1383172135

BCRider
January 29, 2014, 08:47 PM
Who imported this for you?

Check my location. Someone here in Canada has worked out a deal with AP to put barrels on the guns that suit our laws. The 4 inch models became 4.5's to allow them to be imported as restricted guns. Otherwise we would not see them here. No short barrel baby killers allowed for us.

C0untZer0
January 29, 2014, 10:23 PM
Oh OK - didn't see that you were in Canada. CzechPoint USA is supposed to be the exclusive importers for Alfa Proj in the U.S. so I was wondering how you got the 5" when Dan Brown said he wasn't going to import them.

I hope to hear a range report on it...

I don't know what the SA trigger is like on it, can't wait for your report.

scriptguru
April 25, 2014, 01:03 AM
Here is higher resolution photo of internals (don't own the gun, the photo is from the distrubutor's site) ;)

http://www.rustywood.ca/forsalepics/AlfaProj/sprinkitA.jpg

As I understand, this one has light alloy frame (they come in steel and light alloy).

Hm, where is the guy who promised to post a report? Hopefully he didn't hurt himself with his own gun.

BCRider
April 25, 2014, 03:29 PM
Well, I let this one slip through the cracks, didn't I? :o

I've got around 200 to 250 rounds through the pipes at this point. I'm still waiting on the shipment coming in that has the extra moon clips. AP did their part but the shipping company has had "issues" and the shipment has been en route for something like 6 weeks or more.

I'm not sure if it was me or the gun but the first 100'ish rounds produced rather "spacious" group sizes. But either the gun broke me in or the barrel burnished in nicely and it's now shooting groups that match my K frame S&W's. Which is to say that either gun in my hands is now producing roughly 3 to 4 inch size groups at 20 yards. 3 inch on my better days or with a bit of luck and more typically 4 inch thanks to the old guy eyeballs and nerves. Obviously either gun is capable of better in the right hands and guided by the right sort of eyes.

The trigger pull with the stock mainspring was only suitable for a sumo wrestler or maybe a re-incarnation of Hercules hisself..... :D A local smith got some prototypes for a replacement made and has worked out a deal with Wolff to provide springs to him that brings the trigger pull down to something similar to my K frames equipped with a Wolff spring setup. Which is to say it's VERY NICE!.

Double action is smoothing up nicely from the first few hundred rounds. It's not as smooth as my S&W's but it's quickly becoming darn close to them. A few hundred more rounds should see the gun smoothen up to where it matches my nicer S&W's for the DA mode at least.

Single action is more along the lines of the Rugers vs the S&W. The AP gun has regular sear and hammer hooks instead of the system used by S&W. So there's a slight amount of creep that mimics what I feel with my Ruger. It's not the pressure build to a no movement release like on the S&W. So for folks that primarily shoot their DA/SA revolvers in SA the Smith or a nice Colt is still the King of the Hill as far as the trigger goes. On the other hand anyone that likes their Ruger trigger would find that an AP in SA feels pretty well identical.

The gun is pretty much a size for size match with the S&W K frame guns. I've measured and the cylinder chamber diameter is the same as the K frames and my K frame holsters work well with this AP gun.

9mm ammo tends to be a little faster than typical .38Spl. So it's no surprise that the recoil on the AP is snappier than .38Spl from my S&W's. And in fact it feels more like I'm shooting +P .38's.

Here's a couple of pictures taken when I was swapping the mainspring out for the Rusty Woods Trading replacement.

First is an overall of the internals with the grips removed. You can see that it's got a more S&W inspired shaped frame instead of the "stub" used by some Rugers and other brands that fit down into the grips.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/AP2.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/BCRider/media/Gun%20pictures/AP2.jpg.html)

Close up of the internals. The lumpiness is the grease/oil that was in the gun.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/AP3.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/BCRider/media/Gun%20pictures/AP3.jpg.html)

And finally some bicycle bar tape I added to fill in a hollow at the upper backstrap. There was a low pressure spot at that location that apparently led to the gun moving and slapping my hand fairly hard. Adding this foam tape has filled in the hollow so my grip pressure is far more even over the whole contact area. This greatly led to the gun having a lower felt or perceived recoil and reduced the time to get a good sight picture for the next shot.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y252/BCRider/Gun%20pictures/AP4.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/BCRider/media/Gun%20pictures/AP4.jpg.html)

Bottom line? Well, I like it well enough that I'm in no hurry to sell it. And those that I've let shoot it apparently like it as well. Two of them have since gotten their own AP revolvers. One guy bought the same short 9mm as me and one of the others went with a 6 inch barrelled .357Mag version.

Anything else? Just ask!

Hometeached1
April 25, 2014, 05:18 PM
Glad it's working for you!
I've still not seen any in 9mm even online, but that's probably a good thing since I'd just have to buy it.:D

barnbwt
April 25, 2014, 09:38 PM
Very good to hear; lot's of people had claimed these were modern day Rohm's, but it sounds like they are a legitimate build. And let's not forget that Ruger revolvers were once regarded as rugged/rough clubs for the ham-fisted, but keep getting better every year, it seems, to the point they are approaching the same diminishing returns realm that Colt (was) and S&W are in :cool:

I like the no-fluting; makes the gun look meaner than 'just a 9mm' :evil:

"Looks like my moaning and crying for a moonclip 9mm revolver finally paid off"
Oh, yeah, there's now a 40S&W Chiappa Rhino cut for moons, as well, so I imagine there will be a 9mm one eventually (there already is a 9x21 or whatever the non-mil Euro version of Parabellum is. Paracivlium?)

TCB

C0untZer0
April 25, 2014, 09:57 PM
Dan Brown at CzechPoint USA was supposed to have the 9231 (3" barrel, steel framed, adjustable sights) by now, but they are not in stock. He was expecting them by the end of March but obviously that didn't happen.

I haven't written him to see when the new ETA is because S&W came out with the 929 and I have my heart set on that now - it's everything I ever wanted in a 9mm revolver.:)

WestKentucky
April 25, 2014, 10:09 PM
If it's like my 40sw Taurus was, it will shoot without moons but ejection comes from a stick UNLESS you use thinner brass cases that are nicely polished. The steel and aluminum cases are rough and grip cylinders where the brass doesn't grip much.

C0untZer0
April 26, 2014, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the review BTW, that was a great review.

BCRider
April 27, 2014, 03:43 AM
You're welcome. When I went looking for information on these guns I found just barely more than "zip all". So hopefully as they become more available my review will aid some folks into making their own decision.

WestKentucky, on this gun if I shoot without moonclips the empties can be easily plucked out with my fingernails. In this case the "nail extraction" is aided by the lack of any recessing. For casual target shooting that's how I do it instead of bothering with my two whole moonclips that I've got so far.

I've got some Blazer aluminium that I'll have to try to see if it sticks like you're saying the Taurus does with the alloy casings.

Cooldill
April 27, 2014, 03:54 PM
PLEASE tell me this thing comes with an internal lock!???

Imagine the piles of bodies in the streets if this thing doesn't have the God-given miracle internal lock!

Otherwise, looks like a pretty cool revo. :D

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