G2 R.I.P. Ammo


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dakota.potts
January 24, 2014, 11:21 PM
So here's an interesting concept that was shared with me on Facebook:

A new bullet from a company called G2, called the Radically Invasive Projectile.

It works much like a hollowpoint, basically a slug with 9 trocar points forming a solid circle. Supposedly the design of this 92 grain copper projectile is more efficient at penetrating objects from plywood to concrete to sheet metal, boasting 16" of penetration (from their website). As material fills up the hollow core of the round, the 9 projectiles are pushed apart from the base creating 9 distinct wound channels. There's also some talk of "acoustic shock", not quite sure what that's supposed to be or if it's real science. The bullet is all copper, containing no lead.

They also say that the bullet maintains its energy after hitting a solid object because the 8 points will cut out a hole and push it into the center of the round, allowing it to become a solid slug rather than be deflected, and preserving more of its energy.

I know there have been some super light high speed loads before (like 60 grain) with a similar idea: penetration followed by rapid fragmentation. I know that these rounds do fragment violently, but I have heard very poor things about their consistency. This round looks to be the first that I've heard of that actually modifies the shape of the projectile to make this happen.

I heard about this through a Facebook gun group and the one who told me about it said a single shot put a hog down well and did some devastating damage. I'm interested but want to see more extensive testing.

They also have plans in the future for .380, .357 SIG, .40, .45, and shotgun slugs. I don't have any word yet on the prices though.

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primalmu
January 24, 2014, 11:26 PM
I'd be more interested in this:

http://mibullet.com/

A local gun builder went to SHOT Show 2014 and posted about this company on Facebook.

rcmodel
January 24, 2014, 11:30 PM
Just what the world needed.
Another 'Magic Bullet' that defies the laws of physics.

rc

pikid89
January 25, 2014, 12:08 AM
haha, dakota im in that thread on Facebook as well...small world...im really not feeling those bullets...

TennJed
January 25, 2014, 12:13 AM
I'd be more interested in this:

http://mibullet.com/

A local gun builder went to SHOT Show 2014 and posted about this company on Facebook.



I can't imagine that can be effective. Gimmick and the company will not make it for every long

pikid89
January 25, 2014, 12:20 AM
The MIB will almost certainly be labeled as illegal in Florida and other places that have banned bolo rounds by name

au01st
January 25, 2014, 12:28 AM
Checked out the MIB. When the term "centrifugal force" is used under how it works the company loses all credit for understanding physics in my book...

primalmu
January 25, 2014, 12:32 AM
To be fair, "centrifugal" has more or less become the common term for centripetal. Everyone knows what centrifugal means, chances are when you mention centripetal you'll have to try to explain how centrifugal forces doesn't actually exist...

JRH6856
January 25, 2014, 12:35 AM
im really not feeling those bullets...

Doesn't say much for it's penetraion... :uhoh:

au01st
January 25, 2014, 12:37 AM
A fact that my high school physics teacher lamented to no end. And after years studying aerospace engineering before switching majors I have no problem enlightening people; it's one of my pet peeves.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/centrifugal_force.png

Midwest
January 25, 2014, 11:04 AM
Just what the world needed.
Another 'Magic Bullet' that defies the laws of physics.

rc
Are these those elusive "heat seeking bullets"? The politicians say they exist, but I can't locate them.

bluekouki86
January 25, 2014, 12:00 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Looks pretty nasty to me.

RaceM
January 25, 2014, 12:55 PM
Page 294 in Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary:

Centrifugal- tending to move AWAY from the center

Centripetal- tending to move TOWARD the center

Ummm.. if centrifugal force doesn't exist, why is it in the dictionary???? Inquiring minds wanna know.

steveno
January 25, 2014, 01:59 PM
so why is this bullet all that much different than the Geco BAT bullet that I believe was banned some years ago? I guess for that matter what has kept the solid copper handgun bullets from being banned? just curious

yamahawarrior89
January 25, 2014, 02:04 PM
Here is a picture and some video of it in ballistic gel. Looks frag nasty
http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/24/the-new-ammunition-that-has-gun-owners-drooling/

hardluk1
January 25, 2014, 02:41 PM
That G2 rip bullet sure would leave a mess for trama doc to try to patch up . Interesting bullet design. Bet its cheap??

JRH6856
January 25, 2014, 04:23 PM
Is this supposed to be another one of those rounds that "rips through [insert obsticle here] like a buzzsaw"? :rolleyes:

Mike1234567
January 25, 2014, 04:25 PM
Sorta reminds me of the DDupleks fragmenting shotgun slugs such as the Hexolit32.

au01st
January 25, 2014, 06:19 PM
Ummm.. if centrifugal force doesn't exist, why is it in the dictionary???? Inquiring minds wanna know.

Unicorns don't exist, but that word is in the dictionary...

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/u6l1d.cfm


Those RIP bullets look pretty cool. Wonder if there are feeding issues? I'd buy a box just to support an innovative company.

230RN
January 25, 2014, 06:45 PM
What's the "equal and opposite" force to centripetal force? :D

<nyuck-nyuck-nyuck>

Anyhow, on the RIP bullet, I wonder how well it feeds in your and my guns. Seems like there's a lot of hangy-uppy stuff on that ogive.

Their video of the full-auto is impressive, but were the guns tricked out for those rounds... or were they really using FMJ round-nosers in the video?

Sorry, but I've learned to distrust advertising claims --on all subjects, not just arms and ammo.

I might chamber one as a first round, but after that, if I have any doubts about feeding, the rest are as near to ball rounds as I can get. I do that in my new semiauto, which has fed ball rounds perfectly through 300 or so shots in both magazines. But with HP ammo prices so high lately, I don't want to go through 2 or 3 hundred of them to insure reliability.

So the first one, already chambered, is an HP (Golden Saber), the rest are good ole reliable ball rounds up from the mag. I think they used to call that "Dutch Loading." The second mag is all ball.

I'd rather use all HPs*, but I don't feel like spending a hundred or more bucks on expensive and spottily available HPs just to verify their reliability.

Terry

*At least in summer weather.

morcey2
January 25, 2014, 06:56 PM
Here is a picture and some video of it in ballistic gel. Looks frag nasty
http://thelibertydigest.com/2014/01/...ners-drooling/


from the article:


Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing


Since it defeats "all known barriers", doesn't that mean shooting it at all is too dangerous to attempt? The backstop is a "known barrier" and this will apparently defeat it. That should make the M1 Abrams tank crews nervous.

Matt

230RN
January 25, 2014, 07:09 PM
^<grin>, but I think they meant all the "usual" barriers that will be encountered in defensive shooting... "such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing."

But I, too, immediately thought of the armor belt on a battleship. :D

Like, wow, man... hea-vy.

Terry

Sam1911
January 25, 2014, 07:14 PM
mJGH7cDFw7c

Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, [pointless video of full-auto fire, signifying nothing whatsoever], buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, [serious looking dude with beard], buzzword, buzzword, hokey "hole saw" idea again, buzzword, buzzword, "acoutsitc wave" :neener:, buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, buzzword ...


Yawn.

JRH6856
January 25, 2014, 07:56 PM
[ReallyBizarreDireSeriousToneOfVoice] Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword,

The "ReallyBizarreDireSeriousToneOfVoice" sound like he is trying to sound like General Shepard in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 :rolleyes:

yamahawarrior89
January 25, 2014, 07:58 PM
Sounds like Sam is gonna buy a case haha :neener:

Glock-17ECR
January 25, 2014, 08:28 PM
I visited the site for the G2 RIP Ammunition and watched the video. It appears these will be some very deadly rounds if they hit most anywhere above the waist. The Multiple Impact Bullet from Advanced Ballistic Concepts is also a game changer when it comes to lethality from just a single shot. I know that if the single shot is accurate and put in the right place, even a .22 round can be lethal but for the sake of a panic or a SHTF situtation, both of these advanced rounds would be great to have loaded into my 17 round magazine.

DT Guy
January 25, 2014, 08:41 PM
That video is *nearly* a spoof of itself.

The thing is, this ammo COULD be great, but they'll never sell me any this way. Maybe a couple of Hornady-style guys in lab coats, comparing gel disruption and wound channels, would have worked better.

Larry

horsemen61
January 25, 2014, 08:45 PM
Yeah it looks way to gimmicky for my taste

torqem
January 25, 2014, 09:11 PM
you get all the weight (and penetration) of a #2 birdshot pellet, whoopee. Now, if the bullet weighed 60 grs and was traveling 2200 fps(9x23 Winchester), and had just 3 segments, that would be a different deal entirely

JRH6856
January 25, 2014, 11:24 PM
both of these advanced rounds would be great to have loaded into my 17 round magazine.

Just make sure they don't turn your Glock into a single shot pistol.

MrDig
January 25, 2014, 11:41 PM
I was reading at the web site that they want to introduce a shot gun slug like that:eek: If it preforms like the 9mm in the Video does that would be a gruesome site.

scaatylobo
January 25, 2014, 11:46 PM
Due to the price AND the name = I will not bother with them.

don't need more ammo [ tongue in cheek ] for the state to hassle me in a S/D shoot.

At $ 2 dollars a round ND the fact that no agency will issue them,I pass.

I love = yes LOVE to carry a round that is issue to some [ any ] police agency as it would be up to that agency to state why it was used,me = I bought them since I figured the cop's know what to use !.

btw = I still carry the ammo that is issued to my old agency for that same reason.

stressed
January 26, 2014, 12:00 AM
So it's like a mix of the old fangface and the old aguila fragmenting round, a 9mm version of the CCI.22 quik shok.

Problem being, I'd like to see real world flesh penetration with that 96 grain bullet with all the fragmenting parts. I'm thinking shallow penetration. I'll get a box and test it through a 9mm carbine of 16" bbl velocity and energy.

Yeah, birdshot from a shotgun into gel looks "devastating" too as well, but doesn't reach anything vital.

Here's an interesting idea... What if a bullet had teeth similar to a saw blade in a clockwise direction, and took advantage of the rifling spinning the bullet in said direction when fired to "saw through". Would it be deep penetrating? Anymore damage then ball? So many possibilities really.

TennJed
January 26, 2014, 12:16 AM
I visited the site for the G2 RIP Ammunition and watched the video. It appears these will be some very deadly rounds if they hit most anywhere above the waist. The Multiple Impact Bullet from Advanced Ballistic Concepts is also a game changer when it comes to lethality from just a single shot. I know that if the single shot is accurate and put in the right place, even a .22 round can be lethal but for the sake of a panic or a SHTF situtation, both of these advanced rounds would be great to have loaded into my 17 round magazine.



That multiple impact bullet is not a game changer. It is a silly gimmick, and not even a good one.

Agsalaska
January 26, 2014, 01:06 AM
I visited the site for the G2 RIP Ammunition and watched the video. It appears these will be some very deadly rounds if they hit most anywhere above the waist. The Multiple Impact Bullet from Advanced Ballistic Concepts is also a game changer when it comes to lethality from just a single shot. I know that if the single shot is accurate and put in the right place, even a .22 round can be lethal but for the sake of a panic or a SHTF situtation, both of these advanced rounds would be great to have loaded into my 17 round magazine.
Interesting 1st post to say the least.

Cryogaijin
January 26, 2014, 02:35 AM
I suspect, for it to actually work well, they'd need to make the fragments out of something denser than copper. Tungsten or tantalum would work well. As Stressed said, it is similar to how birdshot LOOKS dangerous, until you note how quickly the individual pellets slow down.

Also, we don't know if the gel in the videos was properly calibrated, so unverified gel vids aren't terribly impressive to me.

Deus Machina
January 26, 2014, 09:08 AM
Translation:

"It functions as a bullet."
"We designed it to do the exact thing other bullets are designed not to do, we're just trying to do it in a controlled manner."

Assuming the gel is correct, it looks like it could be a lethal round, but it also looks like the immediate effects might be lacking.
Also looks like it may introduce some feeding issues.

Tirod
January 26, 2014, 09:53 AM
What is it selling? Buzzsaw penetration?

Why is that any help at all? What does it do better than existing bullets - which have extensive testing, and use in the field, to back them up?

Buy some, run it thru the FBI protocol, and get back with us on that, vendor. If someone is going to establish credibility as being effective, then it should demonstrate superior performance in measurable categories that result in numbers that can and will be compared - and easily duplicated.

Anything less is hype.

In the world of macho marketing, this is known as "Dork OPs." Make it extremely visual with all sorts of useless tie-ins, claims that are actually abusive to those with intellect, and dress it up with every aspect of being a sumo wrestler product. Overbearingly masculine.

In reality it's a shill product targeted to those who assess things emotionally, not rationally.

You want a buzz saw round, show me a side of beef with a large hole thru it revealing daylight. Then shoot live targets, like hogs, side by side with conventional rounds and measure mean time to death for each. Oh yes they do - they don't talk about it, that's all.

This ad is formatted exactly the same way that Monster Trucks at the Fairgrounds! sell tickets, and it works using the same emo cues which avoid all reasoning. Works pretty good with the susceptible demographic. Same guys bolt on Flowmasters to impress pretty girls.

The girls aren't, just ask them.

If you like this product, you are being hyped. It's ok, just money, buy some and learn. After 40 years of this manipulation you see it coming and just laugh. It's all part of the fleecing of men 18-29 with raging testosterone.

Yo Mama
January 26, 2014, 10:53 AM
I want to see the actual ballistics, not just video of ballistic gel being shot.

The full auto Glock was cute. Wonder why they decided to stop looping it after the third time.

Oh, and "the future for law enforcement" part was the best. I'm sure the local PD is looking at "upgrading" soon.

Mike1234567
January 26, 2014, 11:02 AM
But, but, but... they're so kewl!!

Sam1911
January 26, 2014, 11:56 AM
The full auto Glock was cute.Oh, not just that! They even found a Beretta 93R to show off! Between that, and the fact that they have matching embroidered shirts -- I'm pretty convinced that this is a serious defensive product!

No one would have matching embroidered shirts if they weren't serious!

Double Naught Spy
January 26, 2014, 12:14 PM
I think the round shows some interesting promise, but I doubt the claimed results. It is a shame that they introduced the notion of sawtooth action (buzzsawing) with the round as that definitely makes it sound hokey. Assuming the gel tests are valid, it certainly meets SD penetration standards, but only with the core of the bullet, the petals obviously not penetrating that deeply.

Buy some, run it thru the FBI protocol, and get back with us on that, vendor. If someone is going to establish credibility as being effective, then it should demonstrate superior performance in measurable categories that result in numbers that can and will be compared - and easily duplicated.

Anything less is hype.

In the world of macho marketing, this is known as "Dork OPs." Make it extremely visual with all sorts of useless tie-ins, claims that are actually abusive to those with intellect, and dress it up with every aspect of being a sumo wrestler product. Overbearingly masculine.

I have to laugh at the repulsion of new goodies in an often old school, unwilling to entertain new ideas, stick in the mud, GOB networks, Henry Ford mentality. Heaven forbid something be new, innovative, or different. Back in the day, you would have thought pink grips were the downfall of the firearms industry, that companies would stoop so low to defile firearms in such a manner was perceived as blasphemy. This was just a product introduced at the Shot Show. There were LOTS of new products introduced at the Shot Show and as such don't have a track record of any sort either, but lots of claims.

I see lots of new ammo introduced by reputable companies that don't come with all the demands you have made. While I agree that it would be nice to see the round put through the paces by independent testers, the basic information put forth so far indicates that it would likely get through many of the FBI protocols. They are off to a good start with what is documented in their videos.

If you like this product, you are being hyped. It's ok, just money, buy some and learn. After 40 years of this manipulation you see it coming and just laugh. It's all part of the fleecing of men 18-29 with raging testosterone.

Whether or not you like this product, if you have see the ad, the you have been subjected to the pitch, just like with any other ads. Advertising is often a form of hype, regardless of the quality of the product. All of the big name companies do it to a certain extent, whether it be with what you liken to 18-29 year old raging testosterone men or anyone who wants to be like an of the big name gun gurus hocking wares for various companies or any of the companies that use guys dress in SWAT gear, famous, or pretty girls. This is all rampant in the gun industry and is a standardized form of advertising. The bottom line here is that the pitch for the product is not what does or does not make the product performance viable.

Sam1911
January 26, 2014, 12:36 PM
The bottom line here is that the pitch for the product is not what does or does not make the product performance viable.Maybe it's a kind of reverse-psychology. Make the ad video so bad that the product MUST be good?
:)

I guess I'm still unsure what it is that bullets DON'T do now, that these new rounds will do, that's something we need. The real problem is always hitting what you're aiming at, and the weak link in the chain is always going to be making sure the shooter is up to the task. So very often, new tech seems to serve as a distraction from the very great need to improve the biggest flaw in the system.

Factors in a successful self-defense shooting:
Bullet: 1%
Gun: 4%
Chance: 20%
Me: 75%

So...let's dump money and effort into that bullet...:uhoh:

Torian
January 26, 2014, 12:46 PM
YAWN.

The overall wound channel / cavitation from the round is ultimately smaller than other ballistic gel tests I've seen. I've seen 9mm and .357 SIG hollowpoints do more damage. I also question whether that gel block was even properly calibrated to begin with.

This is just a bunch of marketing BS...and all it does is get the sheep worked up into a bleating frenzy. I've already seen gun-grabbers calling this the "new black talon" or similarly themed "armor piercing rounds". I would also never want to run a bullet with that nose profile through my weapon in a life or death scenario.

Mike1234567
January 26, 2014, 01:11 PM
What I don't understand is that DDupleks isn't suing them for patent infringement.

forindooruseonly
January 26, 2014, 01:26 PM
I just wanna know if the box comes with pictures of ninjas on it. If so, I'm SOLD!

That is also the clearest, jiggliest, ballistic gelatin I've ever seen.

Erik M
January 26, 2014, 01:46 PM
reminds me of the extreme shock stuff thats been out for years. Ive watched the youtube video, impact was something else but penetration looked sub par. I will stick with my gold dots.

C0untZer0
January 26, 2014, 03:46 PM
I prophesized this way back when:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9291998&postcount=29

tarosean
January 26, 2014, 03:55 PM
I just wanna know if the box comes with pictures of ninjas on it. If so, I'm SOLD!

Ninjas were so 70's-80's man... Zombies are the new thing.

tarosean
January 26, 2014, 04:04 PM
So...let's dump money and effort into that bullet...

But that's the last bullet you'll ever need!



I guess its a good thing it shatters on impact.. That way we have no clue how many of the mini projectiles got ripped off from rifling. :evil:

hankdatank1362
January 26, 2014, 05:16 PM
But does it feature an expanding rotational cone of density mass tungsten nytrillum wave particles?



http://tinypic.com/bg8a9x.jpg

Torian
January 26, 2014, 06:14 PM
I just wanna know if the box comes with pictures of ninjas on it. If so, I'm SOLD!

That is also the clearest, jiggliest, ballistic gelatin I've ever seen.
Agreed on both:)

The motion of the gel block upon impact led me to question its proper calibration. I submit that they tweaked it to over-emphasize the impact and wound-cavity the round generates.

JRH6856
January 26, 2014, 08:08 PM
That is also the clearest, jiggliest, ballistic gelatin I've ever seen.

Jell-O stoppers?

Mooseman
January 26, 2014, 10:09 PM
I'm a little confused about the shotgun rounds. What's the point of spread after impact with a slug, isn't it pretty much game over already? If you wanted spread why wouldn't you use buckshot to begin with?

Double Naught Spy
January 26, 2014, 10:39 PM
I guess I'm still unsure what it is that bullets DON'T do now, that these new rounds will do, that's something we need.
Isn't that the case with every advertised defensive round that is supposed to be better than the others? They all claim to do stuff better than the competition, to be the best, to be the choice of professionals, or some such over-the-top claim. Each company wants to set it self aside from the rest of the pack even if in the grand scheme, their particular offering is statistically no better than a bunch of the other choices, LOL.

I guess its a good thing it shatters on impact.. That way we have no clue how many of the mini projectiles got ripped off from rifling.

Why would they rip off in the rifling when they don't contact the rifling?

torqem
January 26, 2014, 10:45 PM
The FBI "protocol" is bs for civilians. You'd be well advised not to be shooting at anyone in a car. No controlable ccw gun and load is going to do much after going thru both sides of a car, unless it's an AP rd that has very little stopping power. If you shoot into or thru a car, you'd better pray that no innocents are inside of it, and that none of your richochets hit anyone but the bad guy. I don't want a handgun bullet that penetrates more than 9" of gel, after piercing a denim jacket. It's either wasting too much of its available power, or it's too slow for repeat hits with a gun that's feasible for ccw(except maybe under a parka). :-)

BigBore44
January 26, 2014, 11:53 PM
Anyone know when/where these can be purchased? I have a spot in my safe for them. I agree they are probably going to be a novelty. But when it comes to firearms and ammo, I like novelty.

C0untZer0
January 27, 2014, 01:05 AM
I'm a little confused about the shotgun rounds. What's the point of spread after impact with a slug, isn't it pretty much game over already? If you wanted spread why wouldn't you use buckshot to begin with?

This would have one advantage over a normal slug in that it shouldn't over-penetrate.

And for people who think they might need a shotgun at ranges where shot pattern opens up to the point of some pellets possibly missing the target, this would have an advantage in that area too...

I'm surprised Lehigh hasn't made one...

I'm wondering if it's more difficult though to get a copper slug to spin than a lead slug.

stressed
January 27, 2014, 01:23 AM
I don't think it really matters what ammo you have if the guy on the other end is facing a 30+ round burst from a glock 18 or 93R, it's going to ruin your day either way. Might as well load a cocktail of all different types of rounds to amuse the coroner at that point.

BigBore44
January 27, 2014, 02:08 AM
COuntZerO,
It shouldn't be more difficult if its saboted.

Trent
January 27, 2014, 02:44 AM
Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, [pointless video of full-auto fire, signifying nothing whatsoever], buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, [serious looking dude with beard], buzzword, buzzword, hokey "hole saw" idea again, buzzword, buzzword, "acoutsitc wave" :neener:, buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, buzzword ...


Yawn.


HAHAHAHA!!!! :banghead::banghead:

Dude. Wow.

2:27, it looks like one of the "hole saw accoustic wave buzz-saw petals with deadly centrifugal force" actually bounced off the paper an instant before the clipped the video.

96 gr = ~48 grain core + 8 BUZZ SAW PETALS!!!

OK now, let's do a quick lesson on terminal ballistics so we can put this stupid cartridge to bed, where it deserves to remain forever.

If you have Approx half the weight in the petals, half in the "ultra penetrating core", each of these devastating ripsaw ballistic accoustic wave petals has approximately *6* whopping grains of weight. SIX WHOLE GRAINS OF WEIGHT.

Even if they're sending these out at 1500 fps, the ACTUAL PHYSICAL DAMAGE CAUSED BY EACH PETAL IS ROUGHLY EQUIVALENT TO MY SON'S HIGH VELOCITY AIR RIFLE WE SHOOT IN THE BASEMENT. (Or, if you want to split hairs, maybe like getting shot with eight #8 birdshot pellets).

The damage to a human being will be (approximately) like getting shot 8 times by my son's air rifle, plus a high velocity 22 long rifle hunting projectile. Since the slug in this bullet is solid copper you can kiss any expansion effects aside. It'll have about the same terminal effect as a high velocity copper jacketed hunting projectile (which does expand to about the same diameter, and has roughly the same weight).

Will it kill someone if it hits something vital? Sure! But so will a 22 hunting rifle. :evil:

As far as the other nasty effects?

Pfft.

Neeeeeext.

JRH6856
January 27, 2014, 03:36 AM
Gee, Trent. Put that way it sounds like a quick way to turn a 9mm into a .25ACP.

So you are saying it is truly "The Last Round You'll Ever Need" because if you shoot someone with it and they don't die laughing, they'll kill you?

BigBore44
January 27, 2014, 04:03 AM
One thing that I see not mentioned about this round is the "potential" to hit something vital with a marginal shot. You can see in the watermelon shot, the petals travel a fair distance even exiting the watermelon's skin. I also haven't seen what the remaining core looks like after the "petals" have disengaged. I would imagine it's not a clean break. I like the concept. I think something 230 grn in 45ACP+P WOULD be worth taking a look at more seriously. After impact, it would essentially be a 9mm after full expansion (115 grn) with 8 larger petals. THAT could be a player.

forindooruseonly
January 27, 2014, 04:37 AM
Quote:
I just wanna know if the box comes with pictures of ninjas on it. If so, I'm SOLD!

Ninjas were so 70's-80's man... Zombies are the new thing.

Oh! In that case...

I just wanna know if the box comes with pictures of zombies on it. If so, I'm SOLD!

Bexar
January 27, 2014, 05:53 AM
au01st...Yep...our college physics PhD would almost throw a student out of class if the student used centrifugal. I mean the guy got irate.

CCS3
January 27, 2014, 07:30 AM
Unicorns don't exist, but that word is in the dictionary...

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/circles/u6l1d.cfm


Those RIP bullets look pretty cool. Wonder if there are feeding issues? I'd buy a box just to support an innovative company.
I bet you know what a Unicorn looks like though. If you know what one is, it exists.

Just saying.....:D

W L Johnson
January 27, 2014, 08:00 AM
Box of 20 just sold on gunbroker for $300
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=390125688

Hudnall
January 27, 2014, 09:00 AM
The name alone promises that no cops will be allowed to carry that round! Press would eat it up!

Comrade Mike
January 27, 2014, 09:21 AM
I'll stick to good ole fashioned hollow points. Gimmick round in an industry plagued by gimmicks. This round is going to be reserved for bubble packaging at $10/4 like Glaser Safety slugs if it survives at all.

VaGunNut
January 27, 2014, 09:25 AM
Another reason for an excessive force, malicious wounding, or wrongful death lawsuit

DT Guy
January 27, 2014, 09:48 AM
I have to admit, were I expecting to be attacked by a pack of rabid aliens who shared the exact same physical structure as a balloon or a watermelon, these would be top of my list.

I'm not, though...

Larry

Sam Cade
January 27, 2014, 09:57 AM
I have to admit, were I expecting to be attacked by a pack of rabid aliens who shared the exact same physical structure as a balloon or a watermelon, these would be top of my list.

*sputter*
http://www.oldbaldguys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/wes-spit-take-300x168.jpg

:D

mesinge2
January 27, 2014, 10:10 AM
I may have to try some of this crazy stuff

http://www.concealednation.org/2014/01/the-new-rip-ammo-from-g2-research-has-us-drooling/

That's an evil looking bullet!!

http://www.concealednation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/gun-ammo-300x169.jpg

9 Separate Wound Channels!

http://cdn.bearingarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/G2R-petals-and-core.png

16″ Penetration
* Up to 6″ diameter spread
* 96 gr projectile
* 2″ grouping at 25 yrds
* 1265 FPS / 490 Muzzle Energy
* 9 Separate Wound Channels
* Precision Machined
* Solid Copper / Lead Free
* Defeats all known barriers such as sheet metal, sheet rock, windshields, plywood, heavy winter clothing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAdQa7c4d9Q#ws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD3m8jX-HdI

W L Johnson
January 27, 2014, 10:16 AM
Where's Gecko45 when you need him?

torqem
January 27, 2014, 10:23 AM
96 grs at 1265 fps is a wussy load. The Original Glaser 9mm was a 96 gr bullet, at 1800 fps. Lots more power. The 1265 fps load is 330 ft lbs, not 490 ft lbs. So they are lying on the face of it, by a LOT.

TennJed
January 27, 2014, 01:04 PM
Box of 20 just sold on gunbroker for $300
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=390125688
either a idiot bought them or someone from the company bought them to get some publicity

Mike1234567
January 27, 2014, 01:10 PM
either a idiot bought them or someone from the company bought them to get some publicity

Yeah... gotta be shill bidders. There can't be that many morons on GB.

jerkface11
January 27, 2014, 01:11 PM
Where's Gecko45 when you need him?

Probably his company.

Double Naught Spy
January 27, 2014, 01:40 PM
Another reason for an excessive force, malicious wounding, or wrongful death lawsuit

You know, not another reason, just another product name. Any bullet, caliber, gun type, etc. can be readily and easily demonized. Ask Harold Fish.

The name alone promises that no cops will be allowed to carry that round! Press would eat it up!

No, if it actually worked as a good round and the cops wanted it, it would simply be rebranded and cosmetically altered as was done with Black Talon.

One thing that I see not mentioned about this round is the "potential" to hit something vital with a marginal shot. You can see in the watermelon shot, the petals travel a fair distance even exiting the watermelon's skin. I also haven't seen what the remaining core looks like after the "petals" have disengaged. I would imagine it's not a clean break. I like the concept. I think something 230 grn in 45ACP+P WOULD be worth taking a look at more seriously. After impact, it would essentially be a 9mm after full expansion (115 grn) with 8 larger petals. THAT could be a player.

Right, but what I also see is that the petals are not likely to penetrate bone. I wonder how much would be deflected via a rib or sternal shot where maybe the core does penetrate as a 9mm cylinder (and nothing more as seen in the gel tests) and the petals get deflected away by the bone resulting in highly superficial damage by them.

I have to admit, were I expecting to be attacked by a pack of rabid aliens who shared the exact same physical structure as a balloon or a watermelon, these would be top of my list.

Have you seen the dreaded milk jug army people routinely try to defeat with ammo in order to prove its viability???? LOL

How about if you are attacked by alien nails in plywood?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2CrpJCvdY&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL3F672AA80A79CA72

Since D Dupleks was mentioned above, maybe you are worried about being attacked by Alien Pokey and Gumby variants that look like slabs of clay?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0BoPVkgVQ8

And of course we all fear the alien giant rectangular gel blobs most often seen sitting stationary on flat surfaces, usually tables of some sort, until they are blasted by somebody with a firearm. I have never seen any of these media attack a person after being shot.

JRH6856
January 27, 2014, 01:57 PM
I have never seen any of these media attack a person after being shot.

I've never seen them attack before being shot, either.

SilentStalker
January 27, 2014, 02:05 PM
Its old, and it was designed and belonged to KAC in the 80's. They sold it to this company because apparently it is hard for weapon manufacturers that are also ammo manufacturers to get government contracts. So, they had to choose which they wanted to be. Anyways its a cool concept I guess but nothing new.

Sam Cade
January 27, 2014, 02:10 PM
If this projectile was made of Tungsten-NyTrilium each petal would turn its density mass into an expanding rotational cone of Radically Invasive NyTrilium matrix particles and cause neurological collapse to the central nervous system.

#mallninjamashup

Swing
January 27, 2014, 02:14 PM
LOL! The video is almost a self parody.

tarosean
January 27, 2014, 02:30 PM
Box of 20 just sold on gunbroker for $300


I'm in the wrong business.

Comrade Mike
January 27, 2014, 02:48 PM
The other major flaw I see in this as compared to normal hollow points, what if you take a shot that isn't straight on. A 147gn 9mm would likely keep on trucking through someone's arm into their upper chest cavity hopefully hitting something vital.

This looks like it would open up immediately, spray all it's copper nonsense everywhere to no effect and stick a sub caliber 50 gn sub caliber core in their arm bone.

epoletna
January 27, 2014, 03:11 PM
Invented by the same guy who invented the self-sharpening razor.

gym
January 27, 2014, 04:10 PM
If they actually work as advertised they will be outlawed, like the talons, super vels etc were, otherwise I could start carrying a smaller caliber. Super vels got me in enough trouble 30 yrs ago. But they worked differently with a primer in the hollow point.
after Reagan got shot,with an explosive round, "or whatever they decided to call it at the time, that was the end of that.

Godsgunman
January 27, 2014, 04:18 PM
Amazingly the seller of the $300 box is selling another one with 3 days left and the bidding is already past $240! Pretty amazing how many suckers there are out there. At $15 a round it better have heat seeking and atomizing capabilities also. I'll stick with what I have, if I need more firepower I'll use the AK or 12 guage.

JRH6856
January 27, 2014, 04:27 PM
Pretty amazing how many suckers there are out there.

P.T. Barnum is alive and well and selling ammo.

gamestalker
January 27, 2014, 05:36 PM
Does anyone have any information on cost? I'll bet they are mega expensive, like probably twice that of a Barnes.

And will these, or are these offered for us reloaders?

If I can get my hands on some bullets, I'm more than willing to give them a test run, and then I'll provide the results for ya all.

GS

Bubbles
January 27, 2014, 05:41 PM
In the world of macho marketing, this is known as "Dork OPs." Make it extremely visual with all sorts of useless tie-ins, claims that are actually abusive to those with intellect, and dress it up with every aspect of being a sumo wrestler product. Overbearingly masculine.

In reality it's a shill product targeted to those who assess things emotionally, not rationally.
You realize that describes 90% of today's market...

This ad is formatted exactly the same way that Monster Trucks at the Fairgrounds! sell tickets, and it works using the same emo cues which avoid all reasoning. Works pretty good with the susceptible demographic. Same guys bolt on Flowmasters to impress pretty girls.

The girls aren't, just ask them.
Because we know there ain't no replacement for displacement. :D

If you like this product, you are being hyped. It's ok, just money, buy some and learn. After 40 years of this manipulation you see it coming and just laugh. It's all part of the fleecing of men 18-29 with raging testosterone.
And that demographic, when unmarried with no kids or mortgage, typically has oodles of disposable income to spend on the latest greatest hyped-up toys... and not just in the firearm industry.

mesinge2
January 27, 2014, 05:47 PM
I am going to buy at least one box as a friend and I can do gel testing.

wow6599
January 27, 2014, 06:22 PM
But I think everyone has missed the most important question though......... will they be effective on grizzly bear?

JRH6856
January 27, 2014, 06:52 PM
Let's rename this thread "R.I.P. G2" and then a moderator can close it and put an end to this nonsense :cuss::banghead::barf:

FAS1
January 27, 2014, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=gamestalker;9319872]Does anyone have any information on cost?/QUOTE]

About $2 per round according to this article I read the other day when I first saw it.

http://gunssavelives.net/gear/video-new-9mm-round-is-taking-the-internet-by-storm-g2r-rip/

Gun Master
January 27, 2014, 07:25 PM
Think they told Sam he's on back order ? :p

TennJed
January 27, 2014, 07:39 PM
I am going to buy at least one box as a friend and I can do gel testing.
only the 45acp.

TennJed
January 27, 2014, 08:07 PM
Box of 20 just sold on gunbroker for $300
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=390125688
Man, that mag dump with the 33 round full auto glock cost a fortune

jerkface11
January 27, 2014, 08:36 PM
Man, that mag dump with the 33 round full auto glock cost a fortune

Who says that's what he was shooting?

tuj
January 27, 2014, 08:56 PM
Jim Cirillo came up with something very similar like 20 years ago:

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/box.jpg

DT Guy
January 27, 2014, 10:39 PM
Wasn't Cirillo's stuff actually meant for (as the name suggested) bowling pin shoots, though? I though it was to eliminate those infuriating glancing hits..?


Larry

JRH6856
January 27, 2014, 10:42 PM
Wasn't Cirillo's stuff actually meant for (as the name suggested) bowling pin shoots, though? I though it was to eliminate those infuriating glancing hits..?

Yeah, and from what I can see, this G2 stuff is good for ballons and Jell-O.

Double Naught Spy
January 27, 2014, 11:20 PM
Yeah, and from what I can see, this G2 stuff is good for ballons and Jell-O.

But you have no experience with it and you are basing this on the limited information available. Fair enough, but you forgot the fruits. :neener:

If they actually work as advertised they will be outlawed, like the talons, super vels etc were

Why? How are these any different than other frangible rounds that came apart in segments like Aguila IQ that weren't outlawed?

JRH6856
January 27, 2014, 11:44 PM
But you have no experience with it and you are basing this on the limited information available.

I'm only basing it on the information supplied (I assume) by G2. If I have the wrong impression, they should have done a better job with their presentation. More likely, I am not part of their target market.

Torian
January 28, 2014, 12:21 AM
If they actually work as advertised they will be outlawed, like the talons, super vels etc were, otherwise I could start carrying a smaller caliber. Super vels got me in enough trouble 30 yrs ago. But they worked differently with a primer in the hollow point.
after Reagan got shot,with an explosive round, "or whatever they decided to call it at the time, that was the end of that.
Psst: Black Talon isn't illegal...merely rebranded as the Ranger SXT. Same bullet :)

tuj
January 28, 2014, 12:44 AM
Wasn't Cirillo's stuff actually meant for (as the name suggested) bowling pin shoots, though? I though it was to eliminate those infuriating glancing hits..?

He designed the bullets to kill.

I asked my buddy to make the nose of the cup point with the sharpest outer rim he could machine. I wanted this sharp outer rim because this was the configuration that penetrated best when striking a hard surface at an oblique angle. The sharp edge on the cup-point nose would bit into the surface when it entered at an angle, whereas the tapered surface of a normal bullet would skid off.

There were his and his partner's daily carry rounds.

Thankfully bullet design has advanced and we have bullets now like the Barnes SDX solid copper bullet that retains almost all of its weight and reliably expands after penetrating a number of different barriers.

silicosys4
January 28, 2014, 12:55 AM
In Cirillo's first shooting, as detailed in his book, he had the round nose lead .38 service loads fail to penetrate in multiple head shots.
He preference from then on was for bullets with a sharp edge so they would penetrate skulls and barriers, and those pin grabbers were the basis for his SD load that was capped with a rounded plastic nose so they would feed reliably.
He was much more concerned with penetration than expansion, from the impression I got. He was also developing a full wadcutter .45acp load that was also capped for reliability in auto loaders, but his unfortunate death put a stop to development.

gym
January 28, 2014, 12:55 AM
That may be true but if you had them in your gun and got spot checked in NYC when they came out. You were likely to be in trouble trying to prove that they were legal.

JRH6856
January 28, 2014, 01:54 AM
Psst: Black Talon isn't illegal...merely rebranded as the Ranger SXT. Same eXact Thing.

Fixed it for you. ;)

tarosean
January 28, 2014, 02:38 AM
Psst: Black Talon isn't illegal...

Actually. The esteemed leaders of San Fransisco banned it last year.

Talk about ineffective worthless laws, banning something that hasnt been around in decades.


http://www.guns.com/2013/04/16/san-franciscos-black-talon-ban-comes-a-little-too-late/

JRH6856
January 28, 2014, 03:21 AM
Actually. The esteemed leaders of San Fransisco banned it last year.

Talk about ineffective worthless laws, banning something that hasnt been around in decades.


http://www.guns.com/2013/04/16/san-franciscos-black-talon-ban-comes-a-little-too-late/
Yeah, but they covered the bases:

"It also bans the sale of any ammo “that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.” "

Comrade Mike
January 28, 2014, 03:42 AM
Yeah, but they covered the bases:

"It also bans the sale of any ammo “that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.” "


So..... They banned all hollow points? Black talon wasn't some magic bullet then, and it certainly isn't now. That damn round has more mystique and rumor to it than it deserves.

BigBore44
January 28, 2014, 03:59 AM
If they really used the word "identical", then that law is completely worthless. Because NOTHING has an exact, identical twin. It can be extremely close. But no two things are identical.

silicosys4
January 28, 2014, 04:21 AM
So..... They banned all hollow points? Black talon wasn't some magic bullet then, and it certainly isn't now. That damn round has more mystique and rumor to it than it deserves.

I shot a ruffed grouse twice with a pm40 and black talons last year. Still had to run it down and wring its neck

JRH6856
January 28, 2014, 04:25 AM
If they really used the word "identical", then that law is completely worthless. Because NOTHING has an exact, identical twin. It can be extremely close. But no two things are identical.

What's more, they didn't specify internal, external or terminal ballistics so I would assume that the performance must be identical from primer ignition until the bullet stops moving. That requires a lot of matching data points.

BigBore44
January 28, 2014, 05:24 AM
^^Exactly. In fact, it's is an INFINITE number of variables to calculate. I actually started typing a vary (pun) small list of factors that will all have to be exact. Then after about 30 variables, I realized what a waste of time it was to even attempt such a feat.

tuj
January 28, 2014, 09:06 AM
Well it comes down to how a court would interpret the wording "identical". If you used the same weight and shape bullet, same 'fragmenting' design, same velocity achieved, I would think a lower court might well find against you. But I am not a lawyer.

Cirillo tested the Black Talon in his book and it didn't perform all that well anyway.

Gun Master
January 28, 2014, 10:13 AM
Let's see now. I've got Jell-O, and all the fruits, and my nuts. Hmmm....what else do I need? Oh, I know......I forgot the G2 R.I.P. !:neener:

W L Johnson
January 28, 2014, 10:58 AM
Let's see now. I've got Jell-O, and all the fruits, and my nuts. Hmmm....what else do I need? Oh, I know......I forgot the G2 R.I.P. !:neener:
At $15 a pop (last gun broker price I saw) I think I'll take out the jello the old fashion way, eat it.

gym
January 28, 2014, 01:09 PM
If the bullet works as advertised, it would be almost impossible for a doctor to remove the fragments from someones internal organs. If a good guy was shot with one it would be a disaster pulling fragments out of livers, Kidneys, spleens etc. That's why I doubt they will be allowed to proceed with selling them to the public.

tuj
January 28, 2014, 02:16 PM
gym: you can get flechette shotgun shells. Certainly that is just as nasty.

gym
January 28, 2014, 02:29 PM
Ye I have several shotguns, but you must agree that most shootings are done by robbers or other criminals with handguns. these bullets just "from the literature" are nasty to work around. removing, like shrapnel.

jerkface11
January 28, 2014, 03:27 PM
At under 6 grains each the pieces won't make it to any organs.

Odd Job
January 28, 2014, 03:44 PM
If the bullet works as advertised, it would be almost impossible for a doctor to remove the fragments from someones internal organs. If a good guy was shot with one it would be a disaster pulling fragments out of livers, Kidneys, spleens etc. That's why I doubt they will be allowed to proceed with selling them to the public.

Bullet fragments are not routinely removed from patients unless they are readily accessible under the skin or if they are encountered by chance at surgery.
Removing bullet fragments only becomes a priority if:

1) The fragment is in a vessel and may cause a vascular incident (such as a cerebral embolism).

2) The fragment is lead and is embedded in a vertebral disc or is in a joint capsule or other place where it is in contact with synovial fluid. Synovial fluid can make lead available for distribution in the blood and ultimately result in plumbism (lead poisoning).

3) The fragment poses a mechanical hazard (such as being embedded in a joint surface).

I suspect in most cases the surgeons won't be digging for R.I.P. fragments.

W L Johnson
January 28, 2014, 03:57 PM
Bullet fragments are not routinely removed from patients unless they are readily accessible under the skin or if they are encountered by chance at surgery.
Removing bullet fragments only becomes a priority if:

1) The fragment is in a vessel and may cause a vascular incident (such as a cerebral embolism).

2) The fragment is lead and is embedded in a vertebral disc or is in a joint capsule or other place where it is in contact with synovial fluid. Synovial fluid can make lead available for distribution in the blood and ultimately result in plumbism (lead poisoning).

3) The fragment poses a mechanical hazard (such as being embedded in a joint surface).

I suspect in most cases the surgeons won't be digging for R.I.P. fragments.
If they perform anywhere near what they're advertising they will, which I seriously doubt, the only digging being done would be with a shovel.

gym
January 28, 2014, 04:50 PM
Did you see the Wound cavity that thing made? the round went through the Gel and out the other side. Having those fragments punch through vessels like in the shot of the balloon, would be incredibly nasty. I don't think those in power will allow them to be sold to the public. Not that it is right or wrong, just that in this climate, this won't get by the powers that be. IMO. I will be very surprised if they go mainstream. If you remember super Vels , which were nothing like these, but were "different". Then I can tell you a story some time about what happened to me for having them in my 380. It was costly and went on for 18 months.
Sometimes it matters not what is right or wrong, only what someone else decides is.

astra600
January 28, 2014, 06:02 PM
Considering the buzz saw effect, if the bullet was in a barrel with one turn in .5" it would probably have cut a nice hole in the balloon. That is if the petals didn't all fly off the base after exiting the barrel. With a standard 1:14 pistol barrel ratio, the only way to BS some one would to glue the cartridge to a drill.

This would then allow those in frisco to make open carry of battery powered drills with hole cutter bits illegal.

TennJed
January 28, 2014, 07:07 PM
Did you see the Wound cavity that thing made? the round went through the Gel and out the other side. Having those fragments punch through vessels like in the shot of the balloon, would be incredibly nasty. I don't think those in power will allow them to be sold to the public. Not that it is right or wrong, just that in this climate, this won't get by the powers that be. IMO. I will be very surprised if they go mainstream. If you remember super Vels , which were nothing like these, but were "different". Then I can tell you a story some time about what happened to me for having them in my 380. It was costly and went on for 18 months.


Sometimes it matters not what is right or wrong, only what someone else decides is.



Need see that duplicated with a non interested party. I agree with others here that the gel looked a little off and we have no way of verifying the composition of it

Torian
January 28, 2014, 09:27 PM
Did you see the Wound cavity that thing made? the round went through the Gel and out the other side. Having those fragments punch through vessels like in the shot of the balloon, would be incredibly nasty. I don't think those in power will allow them to be sold to the public. Not that it is right or wrong, just that in this climate, this won't get by the powers that be. IMO. I will be very surprised if they go mainstream. If you remember super Vels , which were nothing like these, but were "different". Then I can tell you a story some time about what happened to me for having them in my 380. It was costly and went on for 18 months.
Sometimes it matters not what is right or wrong, only what someone else decides is.
Yes we saw it...and yes quite a few of us believe the JIGGLY'O block of ballistic gelatin was definitely NOT calibrated to standard.

As an earlier member stated, if we are invaded by aliens that are built like liquid filled balloons or watermelons...I will definitely want that ammo.

Also...if big blocks of jello take on a mind on their own and come after you...this might work too :)

DesertRat
January 29, 2014, 09:55 AM
Hahaha. Their video is a partial take off from the '70's Six Million Dollar Man tv show intro. They zoom in and flash one of the "trocar" petals. Hahaha. They have the technology, they can rebuild the common bullet, make it better, stronger, faster!!!! Ahahahahahaha!!!!

Next, they proceed to educate us by explaining that the "...unique turbulence and center mass...." imparts a spin that stabilizes the round while en route to it's destination. Hahahahaha!!! Now that IS unique. Who would have thought to spin a bullet to stabilize it??? This entire time I was under the clearly erroneous impression that the rifling in the barrel imparted the spin on the bullet. I stand corrected! That rifling must just be there for looks.

I can't continue with ragging on this round and it's marketing because I'm laughing so hard.

Mark my word. This the G2 R.I.P. bullet will be proven as snake oil, discredited and eventually disappear.

Comrade Mike
January 29, 2014, 11:36 AM
I watched their video again. It completely failed to expand after punching through wood. So much for that sawing action.

I've also noticed that after the petals shear off the core leaves a tiny permanent cavity.

Ian
January 29, 2014, 12:25 PM
That is nearly the dumbest thing I've ever seen, and I've spent a lot of time reading about the SALVO and SPIW projects.

Shawn Dodson
January 29, 2014, 12:33 PM
I agree with others here that the gel looked a little off and we have no way of verifying the composition of it

It appears to be Clear Ballistics gelatin. See: http://clearballistics.com/

Clear Ballistics refers to it as "FBI Spec" but it's not. It seems to duplicate the penetration resistance of Type 250A Ordnance Gelatin but it does not duplicate the permanent disruption produced by the temporary cavity.

Double Naught Spy
January 29, 2014, 01:14 PM
So what you are saying, Shawn, is that the penetration results are likely valid?

savanahsdad
January 29, 2014, 01:38 PM
Psst: Black Talon isn't illegal...merely rebranded as the Ranger SXT. Same bullet :)


not the same , but close , and both are legal to own , but the SXT's are better than the BlackTalon's but the "Black Talon's " are cooler :D . the Ranger SXT have thicker jackets and larger talons , the Black Talon are faster and have better penetration but will come apart going through a car windshield , so it's not just a re-name the SXT is an improvement over the Black Talon's 194221




I'd like to see what the R.I.P.'s will do going through a windshield :uhoh:

Comrade Mike
January 29, 2014, 01:59 PM
not the same , but close , and both are legal to own , but the SXT's are better than the BlackTalon's but the "Black Talon's " are cooler :D . the Ranger SXT have thicker jackets and larger talons , the Black Talon are faster and have better penetration but will come apart going through a car windshield , so it's not just a re-name the SXT is an improvement over the Black Talon's 194221









I'd like to see what the R.I.P.'s will do going through a windshield :uhoh:


Oh I'm sure they already know what it does through a wind shield. Maybe there's a reason they didn't show that in the promo video ;)

model4006
January 29, 2014, 03:26 PM
bro it defeats all common barriers. frickin buzzsaw trocar of DEATH

R I P





(sarcasm voice)

Shawn Dodson
January 29, 2014, 03:43 PM
So what you are saying, Shawn, is that the penetration results are likely valid?

The penetration performance as depicted in what appears to be Clear Ballistics gel is probably reasonably close to properly prepared and Type 250A ordnance gelatin.

Based on what I’ve seen in the videos, when the G2 RIP bullet expands the 8 petals apparently fold back then shear off at the bases. For argument sake, let’s say the petals shear off when they fold back 90-degrees. It appears to me they simply yaw another 90-degrees or so after breaking off and penetrate base forward (backwards) because, just like a non-expanding pointed rifle bullet will yaw 180-degrees, the center of gravity is located aft of the centerline of the petal fragment.

In the immediate area where the petals detach and penetrate I expect the temporary cavity to tear open the permanent cavities crushed by the 8 penetrating fragments , which will increase localized permanent disruption (the combination of permanent tissue damage caused by both the permanent cavity and the temporary cavity). The permanent disruption is probably similar to that produced by a MagSafe bullet.

The thing that makes this fragmenting bullet different from the rest is that the base (the “disk”) penetrates straight forward after the bullet fragments and seems to achieve adequate penetration.

Other than what I’ve seen in the videos, I don’t have enough information to make a judgment one way or the other about this bullet.

The biggest risk of using this bullet is, just like with other fragmenting bullets, if it hits an arm that’s blocking its path to the torso. It’ll fragment in the arm. Those who believe this would take an adversary out of the fight should consider that FBI agent Ed Mireles was hit in the arm by a .223 during the 1986 FBI-Miami shootout. Afterwards Mireles was still able to fire multiple shots from his Remington 870 pump-action shotgun and then fire the shots from his .38 revolver that finally stopped Michael Platt and William Matix.

Speaking of shotguns, the Winchester .410 load for the Judge revolver is loaded with 3 copper-plated lead disks and 12 pieces of copper-plated lead shot. Although it probably produces more wound trauma than the G2 RIP bullet, it’s never really impressed me as a particularly effective load.

Beware slow-motion video. Fackler warned about the dramatic influence of slow-motion video in exaggerating wounding effects.

Perhaps the biggest hit against the credibility of this bullet design is the BS marketing hype. For example, how do the “Trocar angles” work when the petals simply break off and travel backwards through flesh?

W L Johnson
January 29, 2014, 04:24 PM
Just came back from a local gun shop and they said they've had people both calling and coming in asking for this ammo.
A fool and his money.......

Sam1911
January 29, 2014, 04:34 PM
Local gun shop?

Box of 20 just sold on gunbroker for $300
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=390125688

I bet those GOUGERS will charge $600 a box!








:D LOL!

W L Johnson
January 29, 2014, 07:06 PM
Looks like the anit's have caught wind of this. Love the title :rolleyes:

New 'RIP' Bullet is Designed to 'Take Out All Your Vital Organs'
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/new-rip-bullet-designed-take-out-all-your-vital-organs

herrwalther
January 29, 2014, 08:30 PM
I'd say its a gimmick. But sure, I might pick up a box or two for novelty or doing my own comparison testing.

Torian
January 29, 2014, 11:05 PM
It appears to be Clear Ballistics gelatin. See: http://clearballistics.com/

Clear Ballistics refers to it as "FBI Spec" but it's not. It seems to duplicate the penetration resistance of Type 250A Ordnance Gelatin but it does not duplicate the permanent disruption produced by the temporary cavity.

You can still properly calibrate clear ballistic gelatin, or in this case, a huge block of clear JELLO. :)

Gun Master
January 29, 2014, 11:37 PM
You can still properly calibrate clear ballistic gelatin, or in this case, a huge block of clear JELLO. :)
Make mine lemon.:)

savanahsdad
January 29, 2014, 11:50 PM
Looks like the anit's have caught wind of this. Love the title :rolleyes:

New 'RIP' Bullet is Designed to 'Take Out All Your Vital Organs'
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/new-rip-bullet-designed-take-out-all-your-vital-organs
yep another moron with a web page , " full metal jacket " lol......

9mmforMe
January 30, 2014, 06:07 AM
That clear, jiggly gelatin has a unique odor...and its best in the morning...smells like....Victory.

W L Johnson
January 30, 2014, 12:15 PM
They must be using Obama budget math or tapping into dark energy somehow.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/g2-r-i-p-ammunition-gimmick-or-godsend/
The entire 9mm projectile weighs 96 grains and is claimed to leave the muzzle at 1265fps generating 370 ft/lbs or joules of muzzle energy (they don’t say which and this figure has changed from 490 in the last 24 hours on their website) - See more at: http://www.thebangswitch.com/g2-r-i-p-ammunition-gimmick-or-godsend/#sthash.2im9vZSV.dpuf
Run the numbers yourself 96gr at 1265fps = 341ft/lb

Comrade Mike
January 30, 2014, 01:24 PM
I think the 490 is in Joules. Convenient to leave off your units to make your numbers bigger.

It's like measuring a group center to center to make it smaller ;)

W L Johnson
January 30, 2014, 01:37 PM
Closer but still off
490 joules = 361 ft/lbs

Racinfan83
January 30, 2014, 09:08 PM
Well they HAD some on ammunition depot. Sold em out in 5 minutes for $44 a box. If they come down I might get a box just because...
I doubt I would use them in any of my "defense" guns - don't want stuff blasting/fragmenting through walls - and I can see it now. The perps family sues me for shooting him with a "weapon of mass destruction" :eek::rolleyes::uhoh:;)
I think I will stick with normal SD rounds...

stressed
January 30, 2014, 11:24 PM
as dumb as the video was, look at all the publicity they are getting. Selling out everywhere

W L Johnson
January 30, 2014, 11:34 PM
Says 40 and 45 versions are coming out in the next 4-6 months

New ammo already sold out
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/new-ammo-already-sold-out

herrwalther
January 31, 2014, 02:04 PM
$44 for 20 rounds. That is some powerful novelty/gimmick.

gym
January 31, 2014, 05:35 PM
What happened to "The One", remember the guy that was on here a year or 2 ago, trying to get backing for his "new design" in Bullitt technology? Anyone follow up with that story?

Deaf Smith
January 31, 2014, 07:43 PM
I am far less concerned with 'magic' bullets than with people being able to shoot strait.

Now if one wants go buy this ammo, fine, but don't think is some kind of wonder.

People have been shot with 12 gauge shotguns and keep fighting so no fancy 9mm super slug is going to outperform that.

Learn to shoot strait and fast (and keep your eyes pealed for trouble), that is the real key.

Deaf

Crashbox
February 1, 2014, 01:52 AM
I'll take either my Speer Gold Dot 125's or the tried-and-true Federal C357B's for my .357 Magnums, thank you.

Mitlov
February 1, 2014, 03:56 AM
If I wanted to make an over-the-top media campaign for firearms that would drive fence-sitters into the "we need to start banning more stuff" camp, I'd make an ad campaign pretty similar to these R.I.P. ads. Dumb product, counterproductive advertising. Thanks but no thanks.

Wangmuf
February 1, 2014, 04:11 AM
10% gel with grid for measurement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKrLpTF-16A


Through auto glass into ballistic gel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SECOqRY5pc

coloradokevin
February 1, 2014, 04:21 AM
Just what the world needed.
Another 'Magic Bullet' that defies the laws of physics.

rc

Yep. Only needed to get to the third post in this thread for all of the information you needed about this bullet.

This thing has been floating around on Facebook for the past week or so, with everyone acting as if this bullet was akin to discovering the cure for cancer. It's just one of a thousand similar "designer" bullets that claim to do everything that no other bullet can do. It's snake oil until proven otherwise in a slew of tests they surely haven't performed.

Torian
February 1, 2014, 10:42 AM
10% gel with grid for measurement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKrLpTF-16A


Through auto glass into ballistic gel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SECOqRY5pc
Glad to see them toss the trusted and true BLOCK O'JELLO in favor of something a bit more legitimate :)

The second link however does NOT show windshield glass...which is laminated. It is likely just regular old autoglass.

I'll give them some props for the first though.

Yo Mama
February 1, 2014, 10:50 AM
I'm just waiting for the phaser guns

Shawn Dodson
February 1, 2014, 11:14 AM
10% gel with grid for measurement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKrLpTF-16A

That's not "10% gel". As mentioned earlier it's Clear Ballistics soft tissue simulant (synthetic gelatin).

Wangmuf
February 1, 2014, 03:19 PM
That's not "10% gel". As mentioned earlier it's Clear Ballistics soft tissue simulant (synthetic gelatin).
OK. I don't know the difference. Just put what their video description said.

Double Naught Spy
February 1, 2014, 05:41 PM
What happened to "The One", remember the guy that was on here a year or 2 ago, trying to get backing for his "new design" in Bullitt technology? Anyone follow up with that story?


That would be They1 with the Hypercav bullets.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=484529&highlight=drilled+hole+bullet

I believe, OOB. The claims of bullet manufacturer(s) picking up his design apparently where not real.

481
February 2, 2014, 12:13 AM
The first independent test of the RIP bullet in 'bare' calibrated VYSE 10% ordnance gelatin (complete with the clearly visible calibration BB and certainly within 'spec') has been done here (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/).

It performed in the gelatin pretty much as I'd expected it would, losing half its weight, and leaving the 0.355-inch diameter base to produce a very, very narrow, barely visible permanent wound cavity almost thirteen inches in length. The little 5 or 6 grain copper shards didn't penetrate more than 4 inches meaning that they'd be deflected easily by ribs or other intermediate obstructions. They might make a nasty surface wound, but there is a HUGE difference between "nasty" and "incapacitating".

I'll stick with HSTs, Gold Dots, PDX1s, and other premium JHPs that don't cost $2.50 per round, lose half their weight in the first four inches of travel and leave shallow little pinprick wounds.

TennJed
February 2, 2014, 01:53 AM
Too bad their target audience doesn't really care about facts

Cooldill
February 2, 2014, 02:11 AM
Oh crap! I just had to withdraw $500 from my savings account to afford a 100 round order of the new Multiple Impact™ Bullets for my Glock, I obviously need to get me some of these too or I'll be left in the dust with all the ancient dinosaur ammo they sell at Wal-Mart!

Looks like it's Ramen noodles till March... :barf:

stressed
February 2, 2014, 02:37 AM
If you could just load HE ammo, then there would be no need for any of these fancy gimmicks. But then again the ATF would frown upon that, so it probably isn't a good idea.

RetiredUSNChief
February 2, 2014, 03:36 AM
I don't buy into the buzzword hype at all, either....but I've GOT to have a box or two of these on hand as novelty items, if for no other reason than to have them before somebody outlaws them.

OK, I admit...AND so I can bring them out amongst the more liberal minded family and friends just to see what I can stir up.

:D

481
February 2, 2014, 02:33 PM
I don't buy into the buzzword hype at all, either....but I've GOT to have a box or two of these on hand as novelty items, if for no other reason than to have them before somebody outlaws them.

OK, I admit...AND so I can bring them out amongst the more liberal minded family and friends just to see what I can stir up.

:D

Yeah, once the "crazy" dies down a little, I mean, sheesh.... $250-$300 per box of 20 on GB :rolleyes:, I might get a box for the collection or 'unusual' ammo.

Strahley
February 2, 2014, 03:05 PM
Even if I knew nothing about the round itself, I would never buy them because of the name. I would hate to have to try and justify a lawful shooting in a legitimate self defense scenario where I used "R.I.P. bullets designed to inflict maximum damage and death"

May as well have "HIGH CAPACITY ASSAULT PISTOL" engraved on the gun at that point

GEM
February 2, 2014, 04:25 PM
That's been mentioned other places and is a good point. We should to stop, not to kill.

Maybe they should change the name to SIP.

Stay in Place?

torqem
February 2, 2014, 04:25 PM
uh, has anyone looked at the collector's prices for THV, original BAT or Glaser or KTW rds, lately? :-) A very small investment here is likely to be worth quite a bit later. But .22lr ammo buy/sell is a lot faster turnover of your money.

Double Naught Spy
February 2, 2014, 04:39 PM
"Stopped in Place"

gym
February 2, 2014, 04:48 PM
Naught, I kind of figured he said it to save face. The last correspondence I had with him sounded like he was trying to save face. But what the hell at least he put himself out there, more than many do.

Gallstones
February 2, 2014, 04:53 PM
I don't think I'd want to use it on anything I plan on eating.
The video is a fun watch.

Gallstones
February 2, 2014, 04:57 PM
I think that brand new, untarnished live rounds are pretty like jewelry and would collect the different kinds if I had access. I would want one round for my collection, or to make a pendant out of.

RetiredUSNChief
February 2, 2014, 09:51 PM
Yeah, once the "crazy" dies down a little, I mean, sheesh.... $250-$300 per box of 20 on GB :rolleyes:, I might get a box for the collection or 'unusual' ammo.

I ain't gonna pay those kinda prices. I'll get 'em at retail or not at all.

:)

ChCx2744
February 2, 2014, 09:54 PM
As someone already said or once mentioned:

I'd rather have a good hit with a marginal round, than a marginal hit with a good round.

These things are going to be too expensive per round for a while. While everyone else is out buying them,
I'll see Speer Gold Dots, Ranger T-Series and Federal HSTs steadily re-appearing and stock up on them. :evil:

Trent
February 3, 2014, 03:58 PM
Here's a good test on it.

psGFPRpWZ3w

Does about what I said it would do, the same damage as a 22 hunting round and maybe a few shots from my sons high velocity pellet rifle, rolled in to one.

Deaf Smith
February 3, 2014, 05:14 PM
Got an idea...

Why not just make a bullet with 1/2 ounce of PETN?

Now that would stop attacker, drugged or not, due to them being dismembered.

Deaf

Fishbed77
February 3, 2014, 05:27 PM
It looks very effective against balloons full of butterscotch pudding.

silicosys4
February 3, 2014, 05:27 PM
So basically, 7 pages later, I get out of this thread that unless you have a fully auto glock or beretta, you would be better off with an accurate .22 handgun with a magazine loaded alternately with hp's and solids....and if you have a fully auto glock or beretta, you are better off with a fully auto .22 pistol alternating solids and hp's....

:p

YeagersClaw
February 4, 2014, 03:03 AM
So are we actually saying the product is bad or just advertised pretentiously? 8 pages of jokes makes it seem to me like this bullet will never catch on.

stressed
February 4, 2014, 07:14 AM
^

Basically, the round has failed tremendously. Aftermarket test shows you can achieve the same goal with a couple of .22 rounds. I'm sure the owner was gritting his teeth for when the first independent test would be after release. So basically expect it to slowly disappear and go the way of other exotics.

Would I use it? In a 9mm Carbine on small game. But I definitely wouldn't be paying what they want to do so though.

RetiredUSNChief
February 4, 2014, 09:19 AM
Got an idea...

Why not just make a bullet with 1/2 ounce of PETN?

Now that would stop attacker, drugged or not, due to them being dismembered.

Deaf

"PETN retains its properties in storage for longer periods than do nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose. Nevertheless, it is a sensitive compound and is easily detonated by an appropriate mechanical shock."

Source: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/454067/PETN

I like the way you're thinking...now if we could just get past the mechanical shock of launching it from a gun...

:D

MtnCreek
February 4, 2014, 09:36 AM
.,...
Does about what I said it would do, the same damage as a 22 hunting round and maybe a few shots from my sons high velocity pellet rifle, rolled in to one.

The same damage as TWO .22's and we all know .22 + .22 = .44. So it turns a normal, everyday G18 into a .44.

Robert
February 4, 2014, 09:43 AM
Yeah, let's call this one done.

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