Kahr CM9 nightmare!


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crazyjz
January 28, 2014, 05:06 AM
I thought I would post this here so that those of you who are considering purchasing a new Kahr pistol could see what you may be in for.

First, let me give you a bit of background. I'm a 60 year old LEO. The proud owned of waaay more guns than anybody needs. Been shooting since I was ten.

During the 2013 Christmas Holidays, I decided that I would purchase a Kahr CM9. Palmetto State Armory had them at a good price. After a reasonable delay, the gun arrived at my LGS. I picked it up, cleaned it and immediately took it to the range. Not bad performance for a new gun but broke the followers in both my magazines. No big deal right! Wrong!

This is where my troubles started.

I got on the computer and went to a couple of forums and discovered that this is a well known problem and that probably about half of Kahr's guns get returned for this problem. That ticked me off! Why don't they fix this at the assembly line? Go figure?

Called Kahr Customer Service and after more than two hours and a dozen efforts finally reached a real person, or at least sort of.

A young male with a British accent answered the phone. No good morning, no sorry you're having problems, nothing. He abruptly asked me for the serial number of my gun which I gave him. Then he asked me what the malfunction was and I told him. The next thing he asks me is for my email address. I gave that to him. Next thing out of his mouth is that he is sending me a return authorization and that I have to send the gun back to the factory. He said follow the instructions and send it in, it will take about three weeks for the repair to be made-and then he hung up.

Wow, all I really wanted was a couple of followers.

OK, fast forward two weeks. Thought I'd call Kahr to see where I was in line with regard to getting my gun back. The same guy answers the phone, he has an unmistakable accent. Again, he seems to be in such a hurry, like he will say whatever he can so he can hang up the phone?

I told him who I was and why I was calling. He asked me for the serial number for my gun. After I gave it to him, his response was, "we have it and we should be returning it to you soon" and he was about to hang up. I said wait- you'll be sending that back to me at my house right? He said NO. That the gun bearing that serial number had been sent by a pawn shop in South Florida and when the repair was complete, the gun would be returned to the pawn shop that sent it.

I was flabbergasted! No, wait I said, I sent you my gun, I don't know anybody in South Florida, especially a pawn shop. He said, "nothing I can do about that, that's a "Service" problem and without so much as another word, transferred me to another number and hung up the phone.

Of course nobody answered that phone. I left a message but thus far, nobody has called me regarding this screw up. There is only one phone number for Kahr. You cannot reach the Service Dept., you will only get the request to leave a message. The customer service extension will get you the angry accent guy!

I don't know how this is going to pan out. At this point, I have every reason to believe that Kahr will send my gun to some pawn shop in South Florida once they finish working on it. Amazing huh?

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silicosys4
January 28, 2014, 06:30 AM
As the owner of 3 unreliable Kahrs, good luck. Wish I could be a fan but they lost me after I spent over $1k on Kahr products without getting a properly working pistol.

So would getting the pistol back from the pawn shop require a significant drive and a transfer fee? Is it a total mixup, or did Kahr originally ship the gun there prior to your purchase?
I have a cw40 that is boxed up and waiting to go back when I make it into town to the FedEx office, and I was told by their CS rep that Kahr would send the pistol back to my home address. I'd be pretty heated if it went back to where I got it.
Between this and the CS horror stories on Kahrtalk, I'm thinking it would be a better idea to just call and see if they will send me parts.

okc-zee
January 28, 2014, 06:41 AM
Same here...Had a CM9 and a CW45 that spent more time at Kahr than they did with me...Finally traded em' both in ...and yes,their CS sucks...I just think they're worn out from all of the problems they have to deal with...I think they spend more money on return authorization fees than they make selling their product...I also know guys that own Kahrs and have no issues...guess it's the luck of the draw... if/when you call again,ask for Jay...he's a good guy...

Dean1818
January 28, 2014, 06:55 AM
The brit actually took care of me.

Kahr should do a redesign on the mag and make the slide stop spring not be exposed

Many people like the Kahrs, just not for me

I own and shoot M&Ps today

crazyjz
January 28, 2014, 07:31 AM
Kahr used to make some pretty good stuff. I wish I had gotten one of their earlier guns. At any rate, it is our responsibility as consumers to let others know when a product that previously had a good reputation takes a turn for the worse.

Right now, I would not buy a Kahr at any price. Dealing with their customer service for any reason is not worth the hassle.

If yung sung moon or whatever his name is would read these forums instead of the bottom line stock returns, he would fire a bunch of those guys and start over!

sig228
January 28, 2014, 08:53 AM
Let me know what pawn shop. I'm looking for a cheap CM-9.

If I don't like it, I will sell it back to you for a reasonable price.

:D

Tommy Cole
January 28, 2014, 09:12 AM
I have 2 pm9's and a cw9 , and after the 200 rnd. breakin period i have had no problems at all? But after reading about yalls probs i dont think i will buy another one. 3 pocket pistols is about all i can carry anyway!

bikerdoc
January 28, 2014, 09:28 AM
LGS refuses to stock Kahrs because of the above mentioned problems.

crazyjz
January 28, 2014, 09:50 AM
Sig knucklehead!

Do you seriously think that after I finally duped you into buying that pos from the pawn shop that I would buy it back?

Just kidding.

Someday, after everybody at Kahr is replaced by somebody who both knows what they are doing and gives a crap, I may buy another one. They used to build some pretty good guns.

Until then, they can line up in a circle and kiss my butt!

460Kodiak
January 28, 2014, 09:57 AM
Wow, that's a pretty bad story. I always thought Kahr was a really good company. I have no need for one of their products, but I have considered them. I will think twice in the future though.

Jim Watson
January 28, 2014, 10:03 AM
Highly variable quality and treatment.

My first Kahr, an E9, first generation economy model, kicked off its plastic front sight. They replaced it promptly and it has stayed in place. I did a little magazine "tuning" and the gun has shot reliably ever since.

My second, a CW9 with big NRA logo that somebody got in a Friends of NRA auction and almost immediately traded in for something he really wanted, has been faultless with all factory loads and most handloads.

lauderdale
January 28, 2014, 10:09 AM
I hope all might just end well, I was looking to buy one but found the Glock42. Just the wait for my XDS45 left a sick feeling in my stomach! Good Luck!

Hunterdad
January 28, 2014, 10:33 AM
That's sad to hear. I picked up a CM9 about 6 weeks ago and am living it. I hope I don't ever have to use the CS.

Madcap_Magician
January 28, 2014, 10:43 AM
I believe the general consensus is that their steel guns are quite reliable, but their polymer ones, particularly the smallest ones, are hit or miss.

wally
January 28, 2014, 01:14 PM
I discovered Kahr has EAA level of customer support when the front frame rail broke on my CW9. I had been very happy with the performance for thousands of rounds until this happened. Here is the damage:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=194173&stc=1&d=1390929171


I'll be switching to S&W M&P Sheilds soon. With all the investment in practice time and ammo with a carry pistol, I won't carry something with poor customer support.

For sure the best customer support is the one you never need to use, but if you've never broken a gun, you just ain't been shooting enough!

stogiegila
January 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
I have read about many people (too many actually) having issues with the feed ramp hitting and breaking the followers.

I have been fortunate that with 500 rounds through my CM9 I have not had any problems. I really like the size of it and it is very accurate. I wish the trigger travel was a little shorter though.

The shipping screw up is seriously bad though. Its stories like these that give me insecurities about the gun, which is currently an EDC. I wish the G42 was in 9mm but I'll just have to wait for it.

The broken guide rail is definitely something I would not have expected to see.

Come Feb I will be looking at the Remington R51

JimC
January 28, 2014, 01:38 PM
Careful what you say about Kahr firearms on Kahr Talk. I guess all the negative press and recent problems with their guns has gotten to them over there.

I just found that I have been banned!!! :what:

You have been banned for the following reason:
Negative Attitude / Brand Basher, no attempt to seek help from Kahr

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

I've been doing various gun forums for many years, this is a first for me. :D

bikemutt
January 28, 2014, 01:39 PM
First, my empathy to the OP for what he's been dragged through, that is unbelievably poor service from Kahr.

I'm a recent convert to Kahr, carrying a P9. When I decided to do this I spoke at length with my gunsmith who's an avid Kahr CW9 fan, he tried every which way but loose to talk me into the CW9, after all, why pay ~$300 more for essentially the same gun?

As much as I was inclined to agree, I made a call to a local pawnshop to see if they might have a used P9; they did, like new with box, mags etc for $100 more than a CW9, so I bought it. The pistol has been 100% reliable so far with several hundred rounds down range.

Certainly it shouldn't matter what gun a customer buys as far as customer service attentiveness, politeness and follow-through is concerned. From a quality perspective though, it seems to me with a CW9 at almost half the price of a P9, they have to be cutting corners somewhere, and not just in minor cosmetic differences.

I hope I continue to have good service from this P9 and I pray the day never comes when I have to call Kahr customer service. And as tempted as I am by what I see around here lately, which is a glut of dirt cheap CW9s, I don't think I'll be buying one anytime soon. I've been looking for an inexpensive, reliable kitchen drawer gun, think I'll stick with a used Glock.

wally
January 28, 2014, 01:56 PM
The broken guide rail is definitely something I would not have expected to see.


Its also the kind of thing I'd expect any decent company would be falling all over themselves to promptly fix and satisfy the purchaser!

Anything else just sell me the part at a fair price and I can fix it myself and be very happy!

wow6599
January 28, 2014, 02:13 PM
Its also the kind of thing I'd expect any decent company would be falling all over themselves to promptly fix and satisfy the purchaser!

Anything else just sell me the part at a fair price and I can fix it myself and be very happy!

What did Kahr tell you?

Dean1818
January 28, 2014, 02:57 PM
Marijuana is the gateway drug to other drugs

Kahrs are the gateway guns on the way to an M&P Shield :p

crazyjz
January 28, 2014, 03:23 PM
Kahr's Service Department left both an email and a phone message saying they were sorry for the problem and that it has been corrected.

This guy actually sounded like he cares.

Who knows, the jury is still out. At any rate, this is a step in the right direction.

Onward Allusion
January 28, 2014, 03:29 PM
If I am reading this correctly. . .

Why would you send the entire gun in to have a couple of followers replaced? At most, you should have sent in the mags themselves. I personally would have just bought the 2 followers. Did you have to pay shipping for the gun?

SDGlock23
January 28, 2014, 03:45 PM
I owned a PM9, a PM40, a CW40, a CW45, a CM9 and now a CM40.

I've not had any issues with them except for one, my CM40 did break mag followers. Kahr freely sent me some and they too quickly broke. I knew the barrel feed ramp was impacting the exposed plastic follower on the last and/or next to last round. Kahr sent me a box, I put the CM40 in it, they smoothed off part of the feed ramp and sent it back to my front door. They should either fix the mag so it doesn't allow so much exposed follower or fix the feed ramp on the guns.

It's never broken a follower since the fix. I know others have issues with Kahr products but aside from the broken followers I've never had a problem with any of the Kahrs I've owned.

silicosys4
January 28, 2014, 04:21 PM
If I am reading this correctly. . .

Why would you send the entire gun in to have a couple of followers replaced? At most, you should have sent in the mags themselves. I personally would have just bought the 2 followers. Did you have to pay shipping for the gun?

If the feed ramp is out of spec and is hitting the followers on recoil, the gun will just keep chewing through followers until the feed ramp is fixed, and that's a job for the manufacturer who sent the pistol out with a bad feed ramp in the first place.

Its amazing how much BS some people will put up with from those Kahrs, considering what they are meant for. When a NEW GUN has to go back to the factory before it will feed right, I'm not happy that I got a nonworking gun to begin with, and I'm certainly not going to heap praise on a gun if it begins with "well, after it came back from the factory...." It should have LEFT the factory that way the first time.

You want a $400 BNIB project gun? Your best bet these days is to get yourself a Kahr.

460Kodiak
January 28, 2014, 04:41 PM
I just found that I have been banned!!!

You have been banned for the following reason:
Negative Attitude / Brand Basher, no attempt to seek help from Kahr

Date the ban will be lifted: Never


LOL!!!! You dirty brand basher!

JimC
January 28, 2014, 07:20 PM
If calling attention to documented problems with a certain product is brand bashing, then I guess I'm guilty.
If agreeing with others that own that certain product who also have issues, then I guess I'm guilty again.
If criticizing that company for their lack of customer service as many have recently found, then I guess I'm guilty once again.
It would seem that since they moved Jay out of CS, things are headed downhill rather quickly.
I have always said, I really like my PM9 but I would really like it better if I could count on it as an EDC weapon.

torqem
January 28, 2014, 07:24 PM
get a group buy going and contact Megar or CDNN magazines. They'll fix you up, if you can get together enough people to make it worth setting up a production line.

KY Sparky
January 28, 2014, 09:25 PM
Wow, these stories are astonishing. I can understand a lemon here and there, it happens. However, there is no excuse for poor customer service.:barf: I have been thinking of getting a polymer .45 and was seriously considering the CW45. Not after reading this though. Guess I will have to stick with Glock or S&W.

Mitlov
January 28, 2014, 09:41 PM
I'm shopping for a subcompact 9mm or .380, and I've had Kahr recommended here and there, but after reading reports like this one (and others like it), I can't say I'm interested. Manufacturing defects are bad, but refusing to listen to a customer who has a clear case of manufacturing defects is a deal-breaker.

CNobbe
January 28, 2014, 10:28 PM
Sorry to hear about your issues, I've had two Kahrs, no complaints whatsoever to this point, but I think I'm more likely to buy a used one now rather than new.. :(

I thought Kahr or whoever owns them operates KahrTalk so maybe Kahr is sick of you.. :)

ritepath
January 28, 2014, 10:37 PM
Threads like this are why I ended up with a Shield in 9mm instead of a CW45. (XDs was in recall when I was in the market.)

heeler
January 28, 2014, 11:37 PM
Sorry to hear of these problems.
I have owned my PM-9 now for over two years and it has been positively 100%.Not trying to minimize a bad situation but I wonder if some of these issues are caused by massive orders/production of these firearms and the quality control people are just absent.

heeler
January 28, 2014, 11:40 PM
Mitlov...If you read brand specific forums you will see a lot of complaints about a lot of different pistols.
Makes no difference if it's a Kahr,S&W,Ruger,KelTec,etc.
I love my PM9.

snooperman
January 28, 2014, 11:52 PM
Your story is not uncommon. I have a PM9 and I refuse to carry it because I have more confidence in my Keltec PF9 then the PM9. You are "right-on" about their customer service, it stinks. I paid $650 for the PM9 and less than $300 for the Keltec OTD. I have not any problems with the Keltec and it carries easier too.

snooperman
January 28, 2014, 11:55 PM
It is true that pistols from most gun makers can have problems, but the difference is how they deal with it. Some do a good job in that respect, but Kahr does not.

heeler
January 29, 2014, 12:12 AM
Snooperman what issues have you had with your Kahr and exactly when did you buy it?
It's very distressing hearing all of this because again my PM-9 has been the stellar example to behold as far as I am concerned.

Beentown
January 29, 2014, 01:22 AM
PM9, CM9, P40, CW9 and TP9. Never an issue. Five friends have started carrying the Kahr CM9 after trying mine. One did break a follower after dropping it on the floor while cleaning mags. They were quick to help and sent a new follower. They said if another broke without dropping it they would fix the issue no problem.

If you search for problems of any brand on the net, especially brand specific forums they all have potential issues.

Hope all gets square with you firearm soon, OP.

MICHAEL T
January 29, 2014, 01:37 AM
I have a CW-9 with a loose front sight After reading this I not sure I will send in . Guess will try to fix my self.

snooperman
January 29, 2014, 08:55 AM
I had feed ramp problems with mine. It took 4 months to get it resolved and after that there was magazine follower problems.

Jitterbug
January 29, 2014, 10:42 AM
I have two PM9's, the newer model is about 3 years old and is the wife's EDC, mine is a 2003 model, which has been in my pocket as an EDC just about every day since. It's been the perfect pocket 9 for me.

Mine has over 5k rounds hers about 1500 or so.

Both are reliable, accurate and we trust them and generally run a mag or two or three every time we go shooting. Occasionally we'll run a 100+ rounds or so through them during a session.

I've been considering "upgrading" mine to the newer model which is slightly different now.

Even though I've been happy with both purchases, it's disappointing to hear what sounds like a lack of QC and customer service.

My FFL has had numerous issues with a PM9, which I had hoped was just an isolated instance.

oneounceload
January 29, 2014, 04:49 PM
Wow - I have the CM9 and have not had any issues - granted, I do not fire thousands of rounds through it, but it is in my carry rotation and I have confidence in it

wally
January 29, 2014, 04:54 PM
What did Kahr tell you?

This:
Kahr handguns returned to the factory for service or repair should be sent to:

K.A.I.
130 Goddard Memorial Dr.
Worcester, MA 01603
Attn: Service Dept.

PISTOLS SHIPPED TO THE FACTORY MUST BE SENT PREPAID. THE KAHR SERVICE DEPARTMENT CAN NOT ACCEPT COLLECT SHIPMENTS.
The Federal Gun Control Act does not prohibit an individual from shipping a firearm directly to the manufacturer for service or repair.
However, some states or localities prohibit this. If you live in such a location, please have a Federally Licensed Firearms dealer ship the gun. It will be returned to the dealer after being serviced.
IF YOU ARE A DEALER WITH A CURRENT FFL, PLEASE INCLUDE A COPY OF YOUR FFL IN THE BOX EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU RETURN FIREARMS FOR SERVICE.
HANDGUNS MUST BE SHIPPED PREPAID VIA UPS AIR OR FEDEX OVERNIGHT. HANDGUNS SHIPPED GROUND SERVICE MAY BE ASSESSED AN ADDITIONAL CHARGE OF $40.00 AND REPAIR WORK WILL BE DELAYED. Persons who do not hold a Federal Firearms License are prohibited by federal law from shipping a handgun by mail. Handguns mailed in violation of the law are impounded by the Post Office.
Enclose a letter that includes reference to the factory "Return Authorization" Number, your name, address, telephone number, and serial number and model of the firearm. Describe in detail the trouble you have experienced with your firearm, or the work you wish to have done. Stating only that the firearm "needs repair" is inadequate information. Please enclose copies of any previous correspondence. Please do not include holsters, custom grips, or accessories with any firearm being shipped to the factory for service.
Service work performed, other than approved Warranty repairs, will carry a minimum hourly charge of $65.00 plus a $25.00 return shipping and handling charge. Retain your tracking number when shipping firearms for repair. This will allow you to track the status of your firearm shipment either by phone or the website of the carrier. Please allow three weeks for the return of a handgun.
Kahr Arms ships repaired firearms via FedEx "Adult Signature Required". Please make sure the "Adult Signature Required" from FedEx is not waived for your address. If "Adult Signature Required" is waived at your address then you are responsible for any loss as a result.

Have a good day from Kahr.

Eoin Pryal.
Kahr Arms.

So ~$65 for me to ship it back to them, maybe they will replace it, maybe not, then $25 to ship it back to me.

I'll see if they offer something better after I Email them the photo of the broken frame.

Walt Sherrill
January 29, 2014, 05:20 PM
I have a CW-9 with a loose front sight After reading this I not sure I will send in . Guess will try to fix my self.

Loc-tite (or a similar material) available at hardware or auto-parts stores, will generally fix loose sights.

astra600
January 29, 2014, 06:23 PM
I got two bad nags with my new Ruger P345. Ruger sent two new mags and a prepaid package for the original mags to be returned in. The way it should be handled.

wally
January 29, 2014, 07:20 PM
Loc-tite (or a similar material) available at hardware or auto-parts stores, will generally fix loose sights.

Not so much on the CW models as the front is not dovetailed as one of the cost savings features.

You want Loc-tite 290 "wicking grade" to keep a dovetail sight in place, degreasing and heating things up before application helps.

redbullitt
January 29, 2014, 07:36 PM
My kahr p380 seems to run fine now. I would guess 600 rounds through it now, but it did hiccup a lot for the first 100 or so.

I have looked at the CW series and I think they are kinda rough, especially internally. I think this is where all these problems come in. The small autos are tight and any imperfections really show up. Mine smoothed out on my p380 thankfully.

Lots of nightmare stories for sure… You'd think the company could get its ducks in a row a bit better for quality control. It is a shame because they are nice pistols.

Rule3
January 29, 2014, 07:49 PM
I am surprised they even spoke with you if you had not put through your 250 rounds of "break in ammo":rolleyes:

I went through the Kahr song and dance with a 380 PM9 and PM45. I know the English guy well!.

I wrote several letters to Kahr Corporate Offices, Never hear a word back

Without the whole story the PM 45 went back 4 yes 4 times. I demanded a new gun the forth time. If it could break, fall out or not work I had that gun. When I got it back it worked. and I promptly sold it for a big loss.

I would rather buy 3-4 Kel Tecs than another kahr At least folks at KT are nice and no hassle sending the guns back, Kahrs are expensive and should work right out of the box,

Walt Sherrill
January 29, 2014, 09:32 PM
I had a very nice Kahr P9. I sold it when someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse (literally, too much money to refuse.)

I have a Kel-Tec PF9, one of a number of different K-T guns I've owned. I've had good service from all of them, but I find it hard to shoot the PF9 and the earlier P11 as well as I would like.

I picked up a CM9 and like it a lot, but haven't begun carrying it, yet. May not, if the stories I read here are more than just a few disgruntled owners... Troublesome discussion.

DCooper
January 29, 2014, 09:44 PM
Wow... I had no idea Kahr was earning such a bitter reputation.... I was recently considering purchasing one of their handguns but I will certainly give them no further consideration. I am so sorry for your unfortunate experiences but thank you for sharing them here to help others avoid the same fate.

Rule3
January 30, 2014, 01:02 AM
Wow... I had no idea Kahr was earning such a bitter reputation.... I was recently considering purchasing one of their handguns but I will certainly give them no further consideration. I am so sorry for your unfortunate experiences but thank you for sharing them here to help others avoid the same fate.

We are just the tip of the iceberg. It is actually to bad because when their guns work , they are very good and also accurate.It a Kel Tec does not work Oh well not that expensive When a Kahr fails and is 3 times the price well then that's an issue.

I have yet to find a true pocket 9mm that has better size and design than the PM9. The New Glock is almost the same size but a little longer. The Shield is bigger and not a true pocket gun.

Not really sure what the problem is??. They look and feel very well made.

One of my LGS will no longer sell Kahrs or Taurus. Just too many returns and unhappy customers.

Kinda like the Ruger LCP and the KT 380. The Ruger is a direct copy but more refined and much less trouble than the KT (I have both)

The KT 9mm is the right size but hard on the hand as the grip is aggressive,

Mitlov
January 30, 2014, 01:09 AM
I got two bad nags with my new Ruger P345. Ruger sent two new mags and a prepaid package for the original mags to be returned in. The way it should be handled.


Yep, and I've heard similar stories. Makes me want to do business with them. Some companies can be penny-wise and pound-foolish with their long-term business strategy, and nickeling-and-diming people on warranty issues is a classic example of being penny-wise-and-pound-foolish.

torqem
January 30, 2014, 01:14 AM
They've got this thing called a 'file". It will knock down the "aggressiveness" of plastic frames in about 10 seconds.

Jim Watson
January 30, 2014, 01:23 AM
I have a CW-9 with a loose front sight After reading this I not sure I will send in . Guess will try to fix my self.

Loc-tite (or a similar material) available at hardware or auto-parts stores, will generally fix loose sights.

When I sent mine in with the front sight kicked off, the return ticket said something like "Replaced front sight with Black Max."
Black Max seems to be a somewhat rubberized version of Loctite.
Anyhow, my sight has not kicked back off, and not off my CW9 at all.

If it does, I have a gunsmith with a dovetail cutter.


Have you not shot the latest, Walt? Test, don't depend on Internet Rumor.

Dean1818
January 30, 2014, 08:21 AM
I would jump back in on this

Of the 2 Kahrs that I had, I did have one trip back to the factory for a repair on the CM9 (They replaced the gun)

I think the vast majority of people that buy a Kahr are happy with their purchase

I even dd a poll a year ago on another board and nearly 80% had 100% trust in their gun.

The Kahr K9 that I had was 100%

The 2 reasons that I dropped the CM9 was because I stopped pocket carrying completely (digging a pocket carry out is slow when you are standing, and almost impossible when you are sitting) and secondly the LONG trigger and reset make doubletaps innacurate for me.

Kahrs ended up for me not being my choice, but its not like a Jennings.....

Walt Sherrill
January 30, 2014, 11:08 AM
Have you not shot the latest, Walt? Test, don't depend on Internet Rumor.

I've shot it some, but not enough to be confident. But, even then, I'm not sure I'd have confidence for quite a while. I had complete confidence in the P9, and might just go back to that platform. I'm becoming less and less enamored of pocket carry, for reasons others have mentioned. Or, maybe I'll move to the steel version of the smallest Kahr 9mm. If I use an IWB or belt-slide holster, the weight won't be an issue. The steel guns seem very reliable.

I've not shot my CM9 that much (maybe only three or four boxes of ammo, thus far), I much prefer it to the Kel-Tec PF9. Seems like it has a better trigger, and less harsh felt recoil.

My problems with the Kel-Tec 9mms, however, is that they subtly seem different than the other gun I own and shoot. That may be a "ME" problem, and not a gun problem. If I don't shoot a Kel-Tec 9mm for a wile, I don't shoot it well at all when I first use it again. (I discovered this in an IDPA match -- it took me the first string to really get on track. After that, I did very well.

I've had that same kind of experience with the PF9, as I try to shoot it each time I go to the range, if only a mag full or so. When if I haven't shot it for a while, the first several shots never go where they should.) That seems like a bad issue for a gun that I use for concealed carry. That issue was why I traded away my P-11, and it may be why I'll eventually replace the PF9. Both guns were reliable and accurate. Other shooters don't seem to have this problem -- so it's probably just me.

The CM9 does not give me that problem: after a long lapse (weeks) I CAN hit something smaller than the broad side of the barn. I'll try it some more.

stogiegila
January 30, 2014, 11:17 AM
Stories like this really shake my confidence in the Kahr. My CM9 has not had any issues in the 500 rounds put through it so far. I love the size and weight. The trigger could have less travel to it but that is my only complaint.

Otherwise I love the gun, but all the horror stories really makes me wonder if I want to have it as my EDC eventhough it carries great!

shootingthebreeze
January 30, 2014, 11:31 AM
I must be a lucky one. I have a Kahr .45 and .380 and they both have functioned flawlessly even after shooting a lot of ammo though them.
The Kahr .380 got a real workout last summer - no problems.

Jim Watson
January 30, 2014, 01:23 PM
I'm becoming less and less enamored of pocket carry,

I know what you mean.
I will drop a Keltec .32 or even a S&W Bodyguard in a pocket, but nothing else seems to work.
I had the use of a friend's PM9 for a while and concluded that short as it is, I would still want a belt holster. So there was no reason not to get the CW9 when it came along at a good price. I have an old E9 which shoots well, but is nearly as heavy as my Commander. You can imagine which gun goes along when I care to carry that much weight.

groundhog34
January 30, 2014, 02:17 PM
Careful what you say about Kahr firearms on Kahr Talk. I guess all the negative press and recent problems with their guns has gotten to them over there.

I just found that I have been banned!!! :what:

You have been banned for the following reason:
Negative Attitude / Brand Basher, no attempt to seek help from Kahr

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

I've been doing various gun forums for many years, this is a first for me. :D
They are moonies so they may also put a curse on you.

oneounceload
January 30, 2014, 02:40 PM
I have yet to find a true pocket 9mm that has better size and design than the PM9

Ever look at the Boberg or Rohrbaugh?

http://www.bobergarms.com/

http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/

Boberg is even developing a .45 pocket rocket

gym
January 30, 2014, 03:44 PM
The current PM9 I carry has been perfect. I had one, the first model, when they came out that sucked. I have also had Smith pistols, Colt pistols, Kel-tek pistols, Walther pistols, and several other brands that were just as bad if not worse. If you buy a couple hundred guns in 40 plus years, you are bound to get a few bad ones. "Like cars", just get rid of it and move on. Don't fall in love with things that are just machines, they will always disappoint you at some point. Anything that man builds is subject to flaws. That's why they say don't ever sell your car to your friend. Things break. Customer service is nice when it works, again you are relying on people to do what they forgot about 5 minutes after getting off the phone with you. Perhaps when you buy really expensive "stuff" you get treated a "little" bit better, but for the most part, we live in a disposable society.

C0untZer0
January 30, 2014, 04:09 PM
Don't fall in love with things that are just machines, they will always disappoint you at some point.

I love my HK P7M8.

It's just the truth, I love her.

And she's never let me down.

riddleofsteel
January 31, 2014, 12:00 AM
I have owned and sold around a dozen Kahrs. The list spans the steel and polymer models offered by the company over 16 or so years. I always thoroughly test all my handguns before carrying them. None of the Kahrs I sold were due to malfunction.
I have had to solve some problems with Kahrs mostly related to weak mag springs and worn or cracked followers. I never had any problems with Kahr customer service or parts department but I have never tried to send a pistol back to them either.
Perhaps the best comment I can make on Kahr handguns is that I recently wanted a small single stack 9mm. I bought a used Kahr P9. Hundreds of rounds later and I have had zero problems.

I have owned and fought problems with defective and poorly designed weapons from such diverse companies as Remington, S&W, Ruger, Thompson Center, and Glock. In handguns the only brands I have never seen pervasive problems with is Sig and Kahr.

YMMV

Zaven
January 31, 2014, 02:12 AM
Kahr's quality seems to be slipping. And if CS is getting shorter and more grumpy on the phone then that is usually a pretty good indicator that they are answering the phone NON STOP with issues. Not a good sign.

340PD
January 31, 2014, 12:25 PM
Possibly true, but we do not know both sides of the conversation.

Walt Sherrill
January 31, 2014, 01:09 PM
As noted earlier, I have a CM9 and am considering using it for concealed carry...

That said, my only interactions with Kahr CS have been very good, handled well by them, and quick. My used P9 (since sold in response to a good offer) had a mag release issue, and they, upon discussing the problem with me, sent me the needed part and instructions of how to do the fix. Got it a few days later. It was free.

It could be that CS has gone down a bit since then -- but their reputation in years past was always good. It could be, too, that some of their lower-cost guns are less durable, and that there is a bad apple or two in in the Kahr CS staff barrel. It also happens that people call in and expect a company to move heaven and earth for them -- and nothing less than such movements would satisfy some of THOSE types of customers.

I've had a few problems with a number of different guns, over the years, and CS has been good with all of them. Even Taurus! The only problems -- SIG and BERETTA -- was when the didn't have the needed parts in stock; there was never a bad attitude or an unwillingness to help. Beretta, I had to deal with them several times, never gave me a warm feeling, but they did what was required to get things right. (Once, with a new Tomcat, when they were first introduced, they had to replace the gun -- and it took MONTHS...)

.

flyskater
January 31, 2014, 03:55 PM
I have have over 2000 rounds through my CM9 (which I bought 2 years ago) and used it for my daily CCW. Although I never had problems with my CM9 or dealt with their CS, it is sad reading the horror stories. Having my own businesses, I believe CS is the pinnacle and extremely important in this day and age. I did buy the M&P shield last week which is a little bigger than the CM9, but at least I know that when a problem will arise, Smith will be there. In addition, supporting a company that stands behind their products and services with courtesy and dignity.

clance
January 31, 2014, 10:57 PM
I've owned a first generation K9 and still own a first generation TP9 which I traded the K9 for. The only issue that I had with the K9 was the finish was not what I would expect from a quality pistol, wearing rather quickly, and not all the edges were radius leaving sharp edges that I actual cut myself on. Other then that, my Kahrs had no issues no matter what I fed them.

http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/stmichps/DailyCarry.jpg

The only thing that I can come up with from the stories told on this thread is that those that had problems should have spent the extra money and got the top of the line Kahrs instead of going cheap with the CM/CW lines...

gym
February 1, 2014, 01:22 AM
Most pro's love them, Hickock, Nutin fancy, every ex cop I know. I believe Mass even commented positively on the guns. More than average good reviews. Mine is perfect, half a dozen friends love there's. Rare that you get a Pm9 Basher. Do the research and see what you come up with, as I said you get good and bad in every brand. I don't keep guns that don't work 100%. I just sell them or trade them back to the dealer and get something else. Right now I am on lists for 4 or 5 pistols, Out of which I will buy 2. But the PM9 goes in the pocket carry role. Life is too precious to carry a faulty pistol.

SeanSw
February 1, 2014, 03:21 AM
I had a CM9 for a month and ran less than the factory suggested 200 rounds for break in. I loved the size of the pistol. Great trigger, great accuracy, but way too many problems in a few boxes of ammo for me to waste any more time. Quite a few FTE and dozens of slide lock failures. I only ran one type of ammo but was using two separate magazines (6 and 8 rd) that were loaded down to test the first round chambering and the last round slide lock. No loading issues but basically 100% failure to lock the slide on the last round. The slide stop also bashes my thumb pretty good while shooting.

I admit, I did not give the CM9 a fair shake by not even running it through the 200 round break in period or trying a variety of ammunition. Why bother? I can't afford a variety of ammo to experiment with and chances were good that I'd have to pay return shipping a second or third time, then wait for repairs, possibly pay a new ffl transfer fee (internet rumor is that some frames were replaced causing the need to transfer it like a new firearm) then run another $60 of ammo through the gun before completing a second break in period, and then doing the same thing again with premium carry ammo. Ain't nobody got time for that.

It's a shame. The CM9 was a perfect sized ccw for me but my resources are limited and I can't assist Kahr with their R&D. I'm not bashing the company as they don't even know who I am or what my problems were. I just had to cut my losses early and move on down the line.

That said, next week I am picking up a Walther PPS as a replacement.

NWCP
February 1, 2014, 06:59 AM
I've owned my PM9 for a few years now and have never had an issue with it, or the mags. In fact it's been a well behaved deep conceal carry pistol. I would buy another Kahr based on my experience with the pistol I own. Sorry you've been having a nightmare situation.

Esoxchaser
February 1, 2014, 07:16 AM
My experience with the CM series of Kahrs. CM40, CM9, both operated just fine with 6 rd mags. Neither would feed reliably from the 7 rd. Doesn't appear Kahr is capable of resolving the issue.

gym
February 1, 2014, 01:39 PM
That's very true also, I have 1 out of 7 mags in the 7 round capacity. It is the newer one that has a black thick plastic piece for a follower, not the curved one that you normally see. It is made by Kahr and works. I have heard the 7 and 8 rounder's have problems.

skywalkrNCSU
February 1, 2014, 11:25 PM
Man, I didn't realize there were so many people who had issues with Kahrs, I have had 2 PM9's and absolutely love them. I was thinking about getting another Kahr in the near future, might be rethinking that.

gym
February 1, 2014, 11:30 PM
I saw the Cm40 on slick guns for $334, I may have to pick one up, just because, it's faster than reloading. Free shipping from Kyles
http://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/?keys=kahr&op=

gym
February 2, 2014, 12:51 AM
You know you get what you pay for. Although you save a substancial amount when opring for the cw or cm series. You really must ask yourself, what else is really missing from a $350 gun to a $650 gun. It isn't just a bit of engraving, it's more of the care that goes into doing the fitting and finishing, that can make the difference between a good gun, and a great gun. I know that if I were being paid 30% less to produce a product, it would reflect in the end result. So either pony up for the higher end gun, or prepare to have small issues that probably would be less prominent on the more costly gun., just a thought.
If you are handy and know how to fit and finish a pistol, then there should be no problem in going for the less expensive models. Also you may get one that requires no fitting. But price usually dictates quality with guns to a large degree.

Mitlov
February 2, 2014, 01:21 AM
The only thing that I can come up with from the stories told on this thread is that those that had problems should have spent the extra money and got the top of the line Kahrs instead of going cheap with the CM/CW lines...

You know you get what you pay for. Although you save a substancial amount when opring for the cw or cm series. You really must ask yourself, what else is really missing from a $350 gun to a $650 gun. It isn't just a bit of engraving, it's more of the care that goes into doing the fitting and finishing, that can make the difference between a good gun, and a great gun. I know that if I were being paid 30% less to produce a product, it would reflect in the end result. So either pony up for the higher end gun, or prepare to have small issues that probably would be less prominent on the more costly gun., just a thought.

I can't disagree more with these sentiments. If Kahr can't make a gun reliable at $350, they shouldn't be selling guns at that price point. It CAN be done; Ruger has proven that a sub-$400 (out the door) gun can be reliable. I don't expect the fit and finish of a $700 gun, but I do expect anything designed for conceal carry to be reliable.

TarDevil
February 2, 2014, 02:15 AM
I can't disagree more with these sentiments. If Kahr can't make a gun reliable at $350, they shouldn't be selling guns at that price point. It CAN be done; Ruger has proven that a sub-$400 (out the door) gun can be reliable. I don't expect the fit and finish of a $700 gun, but I do expect anything designed for conceal carry to be reliable.

Agreed. My Ruger ( <$400 ) is dead nuts reliable and accurate. Perhaps with certain brand names one should expect to pay more.

Roadking Rider
February 2, 2014, 09:54 AM
Kahr's mags and followers have always been there weakest link. Love there older pistols for overall quality but there mags suck. I carried an older circa 2009 PM9 for a few years with great results, but when I decided to sell it and move on to a new pistol I went with a different brand because of Kahr's questionable CS. Seems like the followers are hitting the lower back portion of the of the feed ramps on the Kahr's and braking them. It also seems like I've heard of this problem more on the CM9 models then I have on the PM9 models. I personally can't help but think if Kahr is having some internal problems at the moment. One person on CS ,and a problem that has been ignored and has gone on way to long has got to tell you something, and it isn't good. It's a shame really because they used to build a damn good pistol IMO.

crazyjz
February 2, 2014, 10:59 AM
Yes, after all the confusion and frustration, my CM9 made it's way back yesterday.

Put 60 or 70 rds through it yesterday with no hiccups. I look forward to wringing it out some more today. After enough rounds w/o issue, I will put it into rotation for EDC. We shall see!

I made a similar post over at KahrTalk just so the stockholder posters over there can see that I bear no grudges. Good is good, right is right and awful is still awful. Apparently a few feathers got ruffled because I posted my opinion of both the gun and the customer service.

I thought that was what forums were for!

aladdin
February 2, 2014, 12:48 PM
Good to hear they got it squared away for you.
I picked up a new cw9 to try out. It functioned fine right out of the box and very accurate. Then I found a pm9 Liked the smaller size it also is running 100 percent. The CW is gone now.
Now to get to the point. I still carry my S&W 640. I think the pm9 will be sold or traded also.

JimC
February 2, 2014, 01:40 PM
I made a similar post over at KahrTalk just so the stockholder posters over there can see that I bear no grudges. Good is good, right is right and awful is still awful. Apparently a few feathers got ruffled because I posted my opinion of both the gun and the customer service.

I thought that was what forums were for!

I got banned and can NEVER return to KT because I voiced my opinion once too often I guess. :rolleyes: I was accused of Brand Basheding!!!

I got off on the wrong foot there anyway because I refused to kiss Jock's ring the first few days I was there. :eek:

I thin Bawanna was the one that banned me though. :D

okc-zee
February 2, 2014, 03:25 PM
I got banned and can NEVER return to KT because I voiced my opinion once too often I guess. I was accused Brand Basheding!!!

I got off on the wrong foot there anyway because I refused to kiss Jock's ring the first few days I was there.

I thin Bawana was the one that banned me though.


Yeah, touchy crowd over there...lots of denial...according to them any problem with any Kahr is nothing 7 to 8000 rounds and thirty trips back to Kahr won't fix...:rolleyes: lots of newer guys over there post about mega issues with their guns and the main guys over there just keep telling them to follow the lube chart and keep breaking it in...they have a huge turnover of members but the original few guys have been there for years...

aladdin
February 2, 2014, 04:12 PM
I registered at kahrtalk and did a lot of reading there. Not a very happy or friendly site.

torqem
February 2, 2014, 04:17 PM
Sounds like a biz opportunity to me. How expensive can it be to have somebody make a proper injection mold for a mag follower that is shaped as it should be? Or a die to reshape the mag lips?

JimC
February 2, 2014, 04:30 PM
I registered at kahrtalk and did a lot of reading there. Not a very happy or friendly site.

I bought my PM9 back in 2011. I found KahrTalk somehow and read what I could about the PM9 before I purchased it.
The CM9 was not yet out. If it had been, I would have still purchased the PM9. I just like the extras that the PM9 offers, some don't and so be it.
I realized that there were a lot of hardhead Kahr owners there but that didn't bother me. :banghead:
I was never a fan boy of any specific firearm but I found that the Kahr Kool-Aid
drinkers are a tough bunch, right or wrong!
I made no friends when I kept criticizing their recommendation to "rack" your slide 500 times on a new pistol before going to the range for the first time. :what:

340PD
February 2, 2014, 05:19 PM
Response to #83
I could not disagree more. I find the members there to be very helpful. You have to understand who usually is the first time Kahr PM/CM series owner. It is usually an individual that is shopping for a small handgun and many times it is that individuals very first small handgun. Kahrs look great, they have a fabulous trigger system, and they are very accurate, if the shooter does his/her part.

What I see on brand specific forums is a few regulars that have guns that run great for them. Then you have a lot of new shooters that have no idea as how to run a very small semi auto handgun. They treat it as it it was a full size all steel gun and the usual complaint is "my gun won't feed" , "I cannot it get it to chamber while closing the slide slowly", "my slide won't lock back on the last round fired", "my gun jams while I am shooting it", I can't hit anything with it"

Sounds like a re-run from Kimbers Solo or Seecamp forums.

I am not saying Kahrs do not have problems, they do. Do they have more than other guns? Maybe.

I am a RSO and can purchase a Kahr direct from the factory at very low cost. I only own only one Kahr, a PM9. I trust it, and very often carry it.

Am I Kahr supporter? Only to the extent most of the Kahr issues can be attributed to shooter error or a simple fix by the owner. My S&W Shield along with hundreds of others, spit off the white dot front sights within a month. I elected to repair them with a drop of white out and a toothpick, as opposed to shipping my gun to S&W and posting what terrible gun S&W is making. I also followed up to make sure my gun was OK when they recalled every Shield manufactured. I wound up replacing the sights, installed a aftermarket sear and smoothed the internals to remove the famed grittiness in the Shields trigger system. The same for my XDs .45 which sat for 6 weeks before it was returned from the factory during a huge factory recall.

My point is, most small guns have their issues. Some more than others. Do your research before you purchase a gun that you feel may not live up to your expectations. If you own one, it is your choice to keep it and work through your issues with help from informative forum members, have it fixed at the factory and shoot it, or let a new owner deal with the perceived lack of, or great customer service from the factory.

If Kahr, S&W, SA, or any other manufacturers have a CS issue that is another animal, and that particular company needs to fix that issue very quickly.

Kahr is currently moving out of anti-gun NY state and building a new facility on a 620 acre site in Pennsylvania. Let's hope this move is very productive for them and their customers.

That decision alone may have me looking at a second Kahr soon.

crazyjz
February 3, 2014, 02:39 AM
I am grateful that we can all post our thoughts and opinions of various policies, products, etc. without fear of sanction. That is the premise the the internet was based on and fitting for a country such as ours.

Historically, there has always been individuals and groups of individuals who feel it is their right to push people toward the religion, politics, products that they feel is appropriate. I have no problem with that. It is their right, just as I and people like me have the right to voice our opinions.

Where I take exception is when normal, everyday people who spend their hard earned money on a product, get something other than what they paid for. When treated poorly by said companies customer service, there are few options for the common guy other than searching out other avenues for a resolution.

To explain away the deluge of broken, faulty, malfunctioning guns as being the fault and/or imagination of NEW "small gun" shooters is less than genuine.

Nearly every single negative post that I have read anywhere regarding Kahr pistols had everything to do with quality control and customer service; very little to do with the initial quality of the gun.

If a person buys anything today without first having researched it on the computer, he or she runs the risk of being disappointed. If a person goes to a couple of forums looking for information regarding a purchase they are considering, they shouldn't have to weed through the "kool-aid" drinkers.

There are NO products out there that are perfect now and have always been perfect. That has never been a bone of contention. How those manufacturers choose to handle their problems is where the difference lies.

Kahr made and makes excellent handguns! Their "current" quality control and customer service has a long way to go before reaching "excellent".

arizona98tj
February 3, 2014, 12:30 PM
I purchased my only Kahr, a new PM9, back in mid-2009. Since the 1st round, it has been a joy to shoot without any issues. I'll put at least several hundred rounds through any handgun before I decide if it is reliable for carry purposes. I have about a half dozen mags for it and they too all work well. A co-worker purchased a CM9 several months back and has enjoyed his too. He shoots it more than I do mine as I swapped my PM9 out of regular carry for a Springfield XDs45 last year. I still have my PM9 with no intentions of getting rid of it. I've not frequented KahrTalk much in the past years....but was a regular there back when I first acquired mine. It was an enjoyable forum while I was participating.

aladdin
February 3, 2014, 06:25 PM
I believe it was an enjoyable experience for you. Because you have good things to say about your kahr. The people that are having trouble get told you did not break it in properly you did not lube it correctly you are limp wristing the gun. I have no complaints with the Cw9 I had or the PM9 I still have. My opinion of Kahrs reputation is that my PM9 will be sold and I am not interested in buying another Kahr product. I have no confidence in the gun continuing to function trouble free. I have owned enough different guns over the past 30 plus years that I do not believe there you need to break it in excuse. The two Kahrs I have experience with ran perfect right out of the box. You need to break it in is just an excuse for poor quality control.

wow6599
February 3, 2014, 07:21 PM
My opinion of Kahrs reputation is that my PM9 will be sold and I am not interested in buying another Kahr product.

And then, in the same post....

The two Kahrs I have experience with ran perfect right out of the box.

Perfect. :rolleyes:

VAhuntr
February 3, 2014, 10:30 PM
I have a Kahr CS success story I'd like to share.

I had to send my CM9 back to Kahr for the broken follower issue myself. Kahr sent a prepaid overnight FedEx shipping label to my email and all I had to do was box it up and take it to FedEx. I called CS and asked about the status of my pistol and was told it was fixed and I would receive it within 3 days. I received my pistol back at my front door 8 days from the day I originally shipped it out. Keep in mind this included a weekend and shipping both ways...pretty quick turnaround, IMO.

Took it out over the weekend and fired 50 flawless rounds of 124 grain Blazer Brass. From the looks of it, Kahr took enough off the feed ramp to clear the followers under recoil.

I hope the issue is fixed as I do really like the pistol. It is the most accurate "pocket" sized 9mm I have been around.

aladdin
February 3, 2014, 11:09 PM
Quote:
My opinion of Kahrs reputation is that my PM9 will be sold and I am not interested in buying another Kahr product.
And then, in the same post....

Quote:
The two Kahrs I have experience with ran perfect right out of the box.
Perfect.

You forgot this part
I have no confidence in the gun continuing to function trouble free

wow6599
February 3, 2014, 11:13 PM
I have no confidence in the gun continuing to function trouble free

Why? Because of internet chatter?

You have had 2 firearms from Kahr that have been 100% reliable and you want to sell the PM9? Why do you "have no confidence in the gun" if it's been perfect for you?

Interweb blather.

aladdin
February 3, 2014, 11:43 PM
Why? Because of internet chatter?

You have had 2 firearms from Kahr that have been 100% reliable and you want to sell the PM9? Why do you "have no confidence in the gun" if it's been perfect for you?

Interweb blather.
I bought the Cw9 first. Then saw the smaller PM9 and liked the size better that is why I sold the CW.
My comments about them running 100 percent right out of the box was to say that if they can make some that will run with out being broken in they all should. If there are some that will not run they should be considered defective. And not use the excuse that the gun needs to be broken in.

My lack of confidence in the gun CONTINUING to FUNCTION comes from to many reports of problems with broken guide rails and the recoil springs coming apart and poor customer service.
Thank you for your interest.

SwampWolf
February 4, 2014, 02:58 PM
Where I take exception is when normal, everyday people who spend their hard earned money on a product, get something other than what they paid for. When treated poorly by said companies customer service, there are few options for the common guy other than searching out other avenues for a resolution.

To explain away the deluge of broken, faulty, malfunctioning guns as being the fault and/or imagination of NEW "small gun" shooters is less than genuine.

I agree completely. Imo, too many disappointed buyers of guns that don't perform 100% out of the box make too many excuses for issues of poor workmanship/design/material, compounded by unsatisfactory customer service. Classic case of enabling.

Big_John1961
February 4, 2014, 03:11 PM
Careful what you say about Kahr firearms on Kahr Talk. I guess all the negative press and recent problems with their guns has gotten to them over there.

I just found that I have been banned!!!

You have been banned for the following reason:
Negative Attitude / Brand Basher, no attempt to seek help from Kahr

Date the ban will be lifted: Never

I've been doing various gun forums for many years, this is a first for me.

LOL. How dare you bash Kahr.

Big_John1961
February 4, 2014, 03:14 PM
I've had two Kahrs; a P380 and a PM9. The P380 wast the biggest POS I've ever had in a gun. Even after going back to Kahr, the thing malfunctioned almost every magaizine. I dumped it. The PM9, on the other hand, has been perfect and is a really good option for a compact carry piece. It shoots great and has been flawless. Don't ask me why it's been good while the 380 sucked a$$, but it has. I just slapped some Talon Grips on it and it just locks into the hand now.

hawk45
March 11, 2014, 06:06 PM
That is a bummer man, sorry to hear. Seems like such a simple issue to fix with the feed ramps. Put the barrel in a gauge and if anything sticks out.. it's too long.

Problem is that if you do a search on any gun you will find problems. Especially the smaller ones.
XDS9s - just recalled
Shields - just recalled
Kahrs - feed ramp issue
Sig 938 - ejector issues
etc.. etc.

These days it seems a risk anytime you buy something.

gym
March 11, 2014, 07:21 PM
For every bad review on any gun, you will find an opposite review. It's like this on almost every product I ever saw, from Ferraris, to sump pumps. You take away what you find important to you and add up the good vs. the bad, and make a decision. I had a bad Kahr 18 years ago, when they started making them and we found out the "Moonies" were behind the company. I swore I would never get another one, fte, ftf etc. But I started to hear an overwhelming positive spin on the PM9. I knew an ex cop who wanted a larger gun, and I had an M&P 9C, that was just sitting around, so we swapped. I took it out and shot the heck out of it, and it was very accurate with no problems.
So, I like them know. If the slide cracks in half tomorrow, I won't like them anymore, it's that simple. It doesn't really matter what other peoples experience was, "unless it's 75% slanted to the downside, "which it's not". You need to buy the gun and find out for yourself. Otherwise you will never buy any of them, because there is always going to be someone with a story about why theirs either sucked, or how it saved the lives of Lassie, Timmy, and the family. Take the plunge, worse thing that happens is you sell it and get something else.
As far as service goes, I had the pleasure of dealing with a Health care provider who would not stop billing me, even though I hadn't received anything from them since Nov. of 2013. Even after writing the Cancellation letter, faxing and mailing it, and 3 calls to make sure they would cease and desist, they continued and told me they were going to send the $20 dollars they mistakenly billed me for, to a collection agency. "I owned one of those, it's called a "health club". I resorted to what has worked for me every time, with Brandsmart, with a Veterinarian, a Plumber etc. etc. I looked up the local Better Business Bureau, in the town they were in in GA. and filed a complaint. You may think that doesn't work, it has worked every time I tried it. The CEO of the company called me the following day, to apologize, "they told me the day before, there was no one to complain to". He asked if they stopped billing me, and refund the $20.00, if that would be a satisfactory conclusion. I agreed and that was that.
In this day and age no one wants to be listed as a deadbeat, fraudulent, company , online with the BBB. The Plumber who wouldn't come back to fix the sink he installed was crying to the builder that I ruined his business, When he told me, after $6000 dollars worth of re-plumbing my old house Kitchen and appliance installation, that he didn't have time to come back to install a special nut in the Faucet, well he came back begging, to be taken off the BBB's list. It was a 5 minute job, some people just suck. You can't give up with customer service, if they don't comply to a legitimate request, you can cause them so much grief, that it's much easier to attend to you than not to.
There is also Ripoff reports, and several more. Company's don't want to be on any of these websites, and if they did the right thing, they wouldn't have to be. But if you feel that you have a legitimate grievance, and they refuse to address it, then go ahead and tell the world about it, they will contact you, the majority of the time, and try to make things right. Just don't let them get away with blowing you off. Like my Lawyer friend always said, I take care of the one making the most noise first.

SwampWolf
March 13, 2014, 04:57 PM
Kahr's mags and followers have always been there weakest link. Love there older pistols for overall quality but there mags suck.

I've never been able to understand the "thinking" behind the idea that a pistol is fine in every respect-except for the magazines. Really? If that is the case, why in the world doesn't the manufacturer change the source for their mediocre magazines? As most people know, semi-auto pistols are likely to malfunction with mags that aren't up to snuff. Once a manufacturer becomes aware that inferior magazines are the chief cause for customers returning their pistols for a "fix", when all it takes to make the gun work properly is a proper magazine (if that is, in fact, the case), why in heaven's name would they keep shipping their pistols with mediocre mags?

This apparent "business" practice (if that's what it is) simply doesn't add up for me.

gym
March 13, 2014, 05:28 PM
I put the magazine form my 18 year old p9 in my 3 yr old PM9 and it worked perfectly. I don't understand how there can be such differences in products between different people using the same magazine and gun. Maybe the CW/CM line is not as good as the PM.
I get stellar performance and someone else gets crap from the same gun, It almost sounds like a Kimber thread.
The term "your mileage may vary" seems to be appropriate here. There are too many inconsistencies. Maybe their cheaper line is not as carefully assembled or done by a different team, everyone I know with a PM9, has had good things to say about them, I owe no allegiance to them, and have no problem being pissed off if I get something that is not working right, but in this case it's been like gold, other than their first one. Which apparently wasn't the magazine, since it runs perfectly in this gun.

hardluk1
March 13, 2014, 08:51 PM
I would think a reasonably bright person can read about what ever brand there thinking of buying. Right. If you have concerns over a company that sold 90,000 handguns of the same design last years and they read of a problem that may worry them by all means spend your dollar some where other than kahr. Glock may have sold more but no micro 9mm 40 or 45. Make sense?? If you then go ahead and buy a kahr don't turn into internet whiner over any problem you or your handgun may have. deal with it . Have it fixed and sells it or use it. I see guys that I think go forum to forum looking for a tread to complain on and do so for years. After a while there kinda funny.

Jlr2267
March 13, 2014, 09:47 PM
The occasional quality problem is excusable. Horrendous customer service is not. This is where Kahr is really going to learn a hard lesson.

CWL
March 13, 2014, 10:40 PM
I have sworn to never own Kahr again after my experience with their customer service as well.

I bought a Kahr part brand new (sealed package) from someone who had bought it from Kahr and decided he didn't need it. After I received the part, I discovered that this would not fit my K9, so I called them to swap-out this new part for the correct one for my pistol. After the guy asked me for the serial #, he said that I did not buy this part so he wouldn't help me. I even tried to ask if I could pay a restocking fee or something of the sort in order to get the right part, but his answer was "No.", it was my problem.

My service experience with other gun manufacturers (off the top of my head: Ruger, ParaOrdnance, Wilson Combat, S&W, Kimber, Kel-Tec, even HK) always been great with me getting what I needed, often for free or upgraded. kahr has been the only bad experience I have ever had and my money will never go to Kahr again.

It's obvious to me that they just don't care about the customer.

SeanSw
March 13, 2014, 11:56 PM
This was my Kahr cm9 experience.

Buy new CM9 and extended magazine. Fire 100 rounds bulk ammo and 40 rounds jhp. Experience multiple ejection failures, mag release failures, and 100% slide lock failures on both magazines. Read about all potential problems, solutions, potential customer service hassles, then lose interest and enthusiasm. Trade CM9 for S&W M&P 9mm. Continue search for a new ccw.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

hardluk1
March 14, 2014, 10:07 AM
Glad you guys found what you like.

MDI_Weapon
March 14, 2014, 12:21 PM
It sounds like Kahr pistols are certainly no longer on par with the K9 I purchased the first month they were released and that is a shame. My K9 was flawless in terms of functionality and even better (smoother) after some tuning and polishing. I liked that pistol so much I had it refinished with a custom (and very expensive) super-finish at the time (a modified matte hard chrome of some sort).

Like a complete idiot, I gave it to my wife for her birthday and we ended up getting divorced a mere five months later which concluded a 16+ year marriage. That is also a shame...as I still miss the K9 from time to time.

Fishbed77
March 14, 2014, 12:50 PM
It sounds like Kahr pistols are certainly no longer on par with the K9 I purchased the first month they were released and that is a shame.

My 2012-production CM9 has been flawless.

Several thousands rounds so far of a wide variety of JHP and FMJ jacket rounds. Never a malfunction, even during the "Kahr break-in period" (FYI -all mechanical devices have a break-in period).

MDI_Weapon
March 14, 2014, 01:08 PM
My 2012-production CM9 has been flawless.



Several thousands rounds so far of a wide variety of JHP and FMJ jacket rounds. Never a malfunction, even during the "Kahr break-in period" (FYI -all mechanical devices have a break-in period).


My point was they now seem to be a mix of hit and miss - in the past, their reputation was almost entirely "hit" and almost never "miss". Based on the threads I have seen across several forums, many of the CMs are duds out of the box and, in light of Kahr's past, that is somewhat disappointing.

JimC
March 14, 2014, 01:29 PM
IMO, I think it is safe to say that you either get a good CM or PM pistol or you get a bad one.
I don't consider my PM9 a really bad one but it has suffered from:

Magazines that split down the two back seams during the initial range session (2)
Broken followers (3) Not all at the same time but all three within 300 rds.
Failed recoil assemblies (2)

Everything was taken care of by Kahr CS in one way or another but the pistol had to go back to them twice at their expense.

I consider this unacceptable from a pistol that has an MSRP of $958.00.

I still have it. I won't even try to sell it. I would never buy another Kahr pistol based on my experiences.

I have warned other shooters FTF that they should avoid them and I give them my documented reasons why.

gym
March 14, 2014, 01:49 PM
108 posts with no real direction other than the same people trying to convince others that a certain gun is no good, I wrote about this before, you stated your unhappiness, don't dwell, just because a few people come back with a different view, it's monotonous, You should buy a different gun if you don't like the one you have.
At any given time someone's pistol will fail or break, do we then hate every gun made? Eventually they will need something If you shoot them enough. On top of which, these mirco hi powered guns, were never made to fire every week with plus P ammo for a few hundred rounds, regardless of what anyone says. They are made to save your life when you can't carry a full size gun. They aren't range guns, and I fire a few magazines through mine, Perhaps a box of 50- 75, every 2-3 months, and clean it well, after which I would put it in my pocket and shoot my other larger guns. You really can't expect these guns to stand up to thousands of rounds, that's not what they were made for.
Most of these guns even recommend recoil spring changes every thousand rounds or once a year, "not this one", but that should tell you that things wear out faster when you make them miniature size. You get it running perfect and use it to save your life, not as your only gun.
You should know this stuff if you have been carrying for more than a year or two. The same goes for changing parts or magazines, use the proper magazine and ammo that the pistol manufacturer recommends, not some extended one that they made as an afterthought. They rarely work properly. They are Boutique guns, made for deep concealment, 12-17 oz guns are not going to take the infinite amount of controlled explosions that some people are subjecting them to, you can't have it both ways.
I haven't seen a micro compact gun that worked properly when used on a daily basis for target practice in all the years I have been doing this. You want to shoot a lot, get a compact size gun, minimum 20 oz., glock 26 or M&P 9c, not a Solo, or a Kahr , or any of these little mico mini guns. They are a "last resort" weapon. Not for Home Defense or Range work. They are pocket guns, made to save your life when you can't carry a larger firearm, they are not made for combat, they are made to get you out of a life and death situation between 0 and 25 feet, other than that, you need a larger gun. If you are shooting 25 yards with a 3inch gun, it's just wasting ammo, if a person is trying to kill you they won't be 75 feet away, if they are you are going to have a hard time explaining why you had to shoot them, when you could have gotten away from the scene.

nonsequitur
April 28, 2014, 07:27 PM
Other than a weapon failing to deliver, what other nightmares can happen in an intense emergency situation? I can think of a few: Phone not dialing, fumbling with the keys while trying to leave, gears misbehaving, door lock fail, EMT vehicle failing to start. That list can go on and on. It is always nice to know that you can depend on your equipment in time of dire need. I am still trying to get mine to work consistently since purchasing it. 600 rounds in the first break-in attempt, 300 more in the second. It is in the shop right now, 2nd trip, (nose diving and ftf). I am seriously thinking about cutting it into pieces when it returns. I tried hard to like that kahr.

Walt Sherrill
April 28, 2014, 09:52 PM
It is in the shop right now, 2nd trip, (nose diving and ftf). I am seriously thinking about cutting it into pieces when it returns. I tried hard to like that kahr.

That's typically a failed mag spring. It happens with other guns, too. It's can be pretty common with sub-compact gun mags and with some hi-cap mags -- if you keep the mags fully loaded when you're not carrying the gun...

(I had 6 kahr P-9 mags fail almost all at the same time -- in a gun I sold to a fellow participating on a local forum. He wanted his money back, as he had no confidence in the gun. I bought it back, replaced the springs, and later sold the gun for a much better price. The subsequent buyer had NO PROBLEMS with mag failures to feed, etc.)

Good quality springs can die in two ways -- by being worked to excess, or by being kept compressed -- but that will generally only happen IF, as the springs are worked or compressed, they are pushed to their elastic limit. Many mag springs and some recoil springs ARE NOT pushed to their limits, they have built-in reserves , and those springs live longer.

I think this is something we're all going to hear more about as gun designers keep making smaller guns that hold MORE rounds. Something has to give: there's no room for the standard springs in those shorter slides and grips...

Rohrbaugh recommends replacing the recoil spring ($5) on one of their R9 models (R9S) every 200 rounds. That's a pretty short spring life, but it's also a pretty short spring -- doing EXACTLY what it was designed to do.

The mag springs in a full-size gun with standard mags -- perhaps a 7-round mag in a 1911, or 10-round in a 9mm Beretta -- will probably live longer than the gun owner; springs in a 15-18 round mag [either 9mm or .40] won't live as llong -- and if they're stored fully loaded, they'll live even less long. Check the Wolff Springs website's FAQ area for more info on this.

ritepath
April 28, 2014, 09:54 PM
I thought sig made the nightmare series of sidearms.

gym
April 28, 2014, 10:05 PM
That's good to hear Walt, I just fired all 6 of mine and all of them worked perfectly. Sometimes you just leave those "spares" in the drawer loaded up just in case. I took them all out and shot 2 boxes through them. They have been used maybe 6 times each, "except the 2, I carry, and the one in the gun". But that is exactly what I was saying, these mini 9's are finicky, and have to be tested a couple times a year, "at least". I think that is why the 380 kahr has so many hit and miss guns. The new ones are supposed to be really good, but let's face it, the parts are tiny, and the 380 is a snappy round.
They need constant reliability checks, mine has been perfect for 2 years that I have been carrying it, but I clean the heck out of it and lube it even when not shooting it. I even buff out any marks where there is metal to metal contact.
The barrel has been polished to a mirror finish, along with the feed ramp, and the angle on the extractor was cut at a steeper angle by Kahr. It is pretty much as smooth as silk .

C0untZer0
April 29, 2014, 12:03 AM
I bought the Korean made Glock magazines and I could not load them. I could only get 10 rounds in the 17 round magazine. I thought I'd get more in the 33 rounder - bit no luck - just 10 rounds that was it.

So I loaded the mags as much as I could and let them sit for a day, The next day, I unloaded them and re-loaded them.

I was able to get 17 rounds in the 17 rounder and 26 rounds in the 33 round mag.

And here is the difference between a new Rohrbaugh R9 spring and one that's been shot 200 times:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=181423&stc=1&d=1363391622

xtphreak
April 29, 2014, 12:14 AM
Have a CW45.
Love it.
Accurate.
Recoil not an issue.
2 spare mags, both work, as does the original.
Likes ball ammo better than HP, it's Ok, I carry a .45, reliability is critical and because it pokes a big hole without expanding, I don't carry HP.
1) a big hole is beter than a small hole.
2) a hole where you intended it is better than somewhere else.
3) it has to make a hole every time the trigger is pulled, as long as I do my part.


Oh
I like my Sig 938 too

Walt Sherrill
April 29, 2014, 09:47 AM
So I loaded the mags as much as I could and let them sit for a day, The next day, I unloaded them and re-loaded them.

I was able to get 17 rounds in the 17 rounder and 26 rounds in the 33 round mag.

And here is the difference between a new Rohrbaugh R9 spring and one that's been shot 200 times:


Coil spring will almost ALWAYS take a "set" -- i.e., compress slightly -- when first put to work. Put a brand new recoil spring in any gun, shoot it for a box or two over the next week or two, and then measure the spring, and you'll see a noticeable difference in length. You can do the same thing with mag springs, but it's a bigger hassle to disassemble the mags than taking off a slide.

And Glock mag springs, even for after-market mags (like the Korean ones) are notorious for being difficult to compress. That may be one of the reason you so seldom hear of Glock mag springs failing: they're made of tougher stuff. <Grin> Getting one of those mag loaders would maybe let you get 31 rounds in the 33 round mag. <Bigger grin>

As regards the R9 spring: how "soft" is the used spring compared to one that has a relatively low round count? I would have expected it to shorten somewhat.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Rorhbaugh wasn't being very conservative when they suggest 200 rounds as the projected service life... I also would expect the spring to function a bit longer.

(If it were my gun, I'd be trying to use the old spring at the range -- until the gun no longer functions properly -- if I felt the need to practice with the gun. I wouldn't use the old spring for "carry." Using the old spring would save you a little money, and you'd learn very quickly what sort of margin for error you've got.


.

the duck of death
April 29, 2014, 05:44 PM
Delete

C0untZer0
April 30, 2014, 10:40 AM
When my R9 spring reached 200 rounds it went in the garbage so there would never be a possibility of it going back in the gun.

I've thought that with an older spring the R9 would probably function with soft shooting loads like the 115gr Blazzer Brass and Federal Guard Dog, but it is a $1200 gun that I didn't want to experiment with.

There have been folks who have shot their springs way past the 200 round mark and have had no problems, that's great, kudos to them, but like I said, I didn't want to experiment with my R9, and I didn't shell out 1200 bucks for an R9 to put it through a torture test to prove it's toughness to the world.

Springs are a bit of a problem now because the Rohrbaughs have sold the company and are re-locating the manufacturing equipment to South Carolina, and during the move, springs are not available.

I always meant to buy 5 or 6 springs but I didn't get around to it.

Some people have contacted Wolff, but IMO, unless someone can come up with a bulk order, Wolff doesn't have any plans for making the R9 recoil springs.

Hopefully when they get setup in SC springs will become available again.

Walt Sherrill
April 30, 2014, 11:33 AM
... but like I said, I didn't want to experiment with my R9, and I didn't shell out 1200 bucks for an R9 to put it through a torture test to prove it's toughness to the world.

Makes sense, it's your gun and your money.

That said, I doubt that there'd be any damage from using a weakened (or slowly weakening) recoil spring -- as the recoil spring's function isn't to protect the frame from recoil, but to load the next round and close the slide. When it gets too weak, it doesn't do those two things well and it gets thrown away.

Modern guns made with good steel or alloys (or polymer) just don't fail from recoil battering.

1911Tuner, a sometime participant here, has shown a number of us that a .45 being shot without a recoil spring doesn't die, and the shooter can barely tell the difference -- until it's time for the next shot.

As you suggest, Wolff probably won't be all that interested until it knows there's more than a temporary market for another line of springs...

(That said, I'll bet there are some coiled hammer springs that would do the job...)

C0untZer0
April 30, 2014, 01:18 PM
Modern guns made with good steel or alloys (or polymer) just don't fail from recoil battering.

1911Tuner, a sometime participant here, has shown a number of us that a .45 being shot without a recoil spring doesn't die, and the shooter can barely tell the difference -- until it's time for the next shot.

I've been thinking about this.

I can see how an all-steel gun will survive this. But gun designers have learned that they don't need the tensile strength of steel in every part of a gun - especially the frame.

The frame on the R9 is aluminum. I think it stands up OK to the forces that are applied to it, but I don't think it was designed to survive the slide coming back at full force.

I think a Boberg XR9-S or an MK9 would be fine, I don't think a DB9 or an R9 would survive it - but it is just my opinion.

Walt Sherrill
April 30, 2014, 02:25 PM
The frame on the R9 is aluminum. I think it stands up OK to the forces that are applied to it, but I don't think it was designed to survive the slide coming back at full force.

You may be right -- but it will take someone more knowledgeable about gun design and metallurgy than most of us here to really address this question properly.

But, I'll make a point that IS important: the recoil spring's function is NOT to protect the frame from recoil or slide battering, but to make the slide load the next round and close the action.

A lot of people worry about frame battering, etc., and use add-on devices like buffers, but for most guns, I think it's a misplaced concern. Whether it's an issue with an Aluminum-framed R9 is unknown, but I understand your wariness. The only place I've seen or heard of damage to frames has been with guns shooting hotter ammo than they're designed to use, or older guns that may not have gotten proper heat treatment, etc. The guns damaged by hot ammo tend to have a lot of problems, and it's not limited to frame issues.

I often carry a Kel-Tec PF-9. It also has an aluminum frame under a polymer covering (which can easily be taken off.) I would argued that the PF9 frame is even LESS substantial than the R9 frame. I haven't heard a lot of horror stories about PF9 frames failing, and there are a LOT of them in use.

Since the R9 isn't a gun you'll be shooting for fun (or often), doing what you're doing is NOT a problem and not particularly costly, either.

C0untZer0
May 1, 2014, 12:31 AM
After I made my statement about the Boberg, I did some checking and found this video of Arne Boberg firing the XR9-S without a recoil spring, he calls it "flip firing":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbmVjvlDPK0

Quote from Arne:

the XR series does not use a recoil spring... the spring that runs the length of the slide is simply a slide return spring. you could toss it in the trash and shoot the pistol the rest of your life, you would just need to slap the slide forward manually.

in the XR series, the recoil is being absorbed by the lift mechanism and the rotating barrel mechanism. these are FAR more efficient at absorbing energy than a simple heavily packed recoil spring and a bunch of extra weight on the slide could ever do. that is how we are the softest felt recoil .45 and 9mm subcompact out there!"

leadcounsel
May 1, 2014, 04:19 AM
It seems like the prices of Kahr have come down over the years, so perhaps QC has diminished??

I know about a decade ago I had a friend with two different .40 caliber Kahr models, both of which were so plagued with problems they were dumped back in Kahr's lap permanently.

I never seriously considered Kahr due to that. But in the last two years, I came into some great deals on used Kahrs. They are 9mm, and I've shot two of the three, and the two functioned perfectly. Kinda nervous about them all now after reading this thread.

Hometeached1
May 1, 2014, 07:39 AM
I have been interested in the all steel Karh's mainly because I prefer all metal, but the CM/CW price has caught my eye.

After reading this thread it makes me appreciate my J-frame a lot more. Now I know there many bad things about J's, like heavy triggers and low capacity being foremost among them. Now if I ever get a Karh it will most likely be a used PM series, but I'll more likely to get a Shield.

railroader
May 1, 2014, 10:33 AM
I just my kahr cm9 back from kahr yesterday. It broke two followers on mags. They covered shipping both ways and it took about two weeks. They worked on the feed ramp. Hopefully problem solved. Great little gun, accurate and eats everything.

C0untZer0
May 1, 2014, 11:02 AM
railroader when did you buy your CM9?

I am picking mine up today, I'm hoping I don't have any problems with it.

boricua9mm
May 1, 2014, 02:15 PM
Two weeks ago I picked up a used, blemished (B-marked frame) CM9. That's 3 strikes against it right off the bat. I got it from a local store for $340 out the door. Probably could have done better had I gone home first and done more research, but then again, that gun would have been gone and I prefer to put my hands on a gun first rather than buying online these days.

The lil' booger runs! I don't know the round count, but I've run 300 rounds so far of various ammo without any issues, to include some PDX1. Very light recoil, and very accurate at 7 yards (haven't shot it any further out). The recoil characteristics are surprising, especially considering its size. In fact, contrary to the discussions here I'm pretty sure the stout recoil spring setup is what contributes to its low recoil. It certainly doesn't need that much help closing the slide and chambering a new round.

I like it enough that I gave it brushed flats, added a trijicon front sight and got a Desantis Superfly for it.

I bought the gun as something to bridge the gap between my usual pocket carry Glock 26, and my Seecamp. This CM9 delivers. I don't mess with the extended mags; I only use the 6-rounders.

http://www.ricanhavocproductions.com/oldsite/images/cm9.jpg

railroader
May 2, 2014, 01:01 AM
railroader when did you buy your CM9?

I am picking mine up today, I'm hoping I don't have any problems with it.
I bought it in the middle of February.

oneounceload
May 2, 2014, 12:55 PM
because the Rohrbaughs have sold the company and are re-locating the manufacturing equipment to South Carolina, and during the move, springs are not available.


Not finding anything on this; have a link?

oneounceload
May 2, 2014, 12:57 PM
my usual pocket carry Glock 26,

You must have some BIG pockets!

C0untZer0
May 2, 2014, 02:16 PM
Not finding anything on this; have a link?

No official announcement, no link.

Just rumor.;)

boricua9mm
May 2, 2014, 03:19 PM
You must have some BIG pockets!

When it comes to non-work related clothing, if the pants/shorts don't have generous pockets, I don't purchase them. I use a custom gun belt no matter what I'm carrying. Been toting the G26 this way for 10 years now. In tighter fitting pants, or when I'm not allowed to carry, there's the Seecamp.

The CM9 fits nicely between the other two in terms of size and concealability.

shoen1200
May 2, 2014, 03:46 PM
boricua9mm,

What does "I like it enough that I gave it brushed flats" mean???

boricua9mm
May 2, 2014, 04:18 PM
"Brushed Flats" vs. Beadblasted Stainless. Beadblasted finishes are created in a blastic cabinet with some form of media, such as aluminum oxide or glass beads. Brushed finishes are sorta the middle ground between matte finishes and mirror polished.

Brushed finishes are created either with a wire wheel or, in my case, an abrasive paper such as a fine grit sandpaper used for auto body work. I used 800 grit and 1000 grit automotive paper on a wooden block to give the flat sides of the slide a moderately shiny finish. In the photo above, you can see it has a shine, but it is not a mirror shine.

The CM9 comes standard with a beadblasted finish. I find that while it looks good when it's new, beadblasted finishes show scratches very easily, and the only way to correct them is to beadblast the component all over again. Brushed finishes are easy to touch-up and maintain with fine grit sandpaper. On top of that, it has been my experience that beadblasted finishes are more prone to rust, as it consists of tons of microscopic hills and valleys for moisture to gather in.

Basically, I like my CM9 enough that I was willing to take the block and sandpaper to it. If I didn't like it, I would have kept it original so I could sell it downstream much easier. ;)

JERRY
May 2, 2014, 04:41 PM
life is too short to spend hard earned money on a 50/50 gamble of a gun.

fxstchewy
May 2, 2014, 04:50 PM
I want to dislike my CM9 because of all the bad i have read about it so i can trade it off but every time i shoot it i am surprised by how easy it is to shoot and i have not had a failure of any kind or a busted follower.
I guess i got a "good one" :)

Pier23
May 2, 2014, 05:55 PM
This is certainly sadly different than my experience with Kahr CS. I had breakin issues with a Kahr KP380, and the tech was wonderful. Immediately sent a replacement recoil spring, listened to my issue, discussed ammo and breakin, possible limp-wristing, all the stuff you do.

This was maybe three years ago, however....

JERRY
May 2, 2014, 06:06 PM
there is a british accented person identifying himself as Ian/Ion. he does not have the disposition to be in customer care, if they even practice that at Kahr.

that said, my PM9 has been mint since day one.

gym
May 2, 2014, 09:48 PM
Jerry you may have just gotten a jerk when you called. I had a leak in a 5yr old sink Over $1000.00 and I called the company and got a guy who didn't really want to spend the time figuring out what model I had, so he sent me the wrong parts, when I called back I got a wonderful woman who spent 20 minutes making sure she sent me the right parts, even had me pull it up on the computer, so 2 completely different experiences from the same company.
I believe it's quite common these days, I am not comparing guns to sinks, just people in CS, vary from person to person. Maybe you just got a bad one.
And honestly unless you have a problem with something, it's great. So if I call Kahr tomorrow "if something went wrong with my gun", and wasn't happy with the response, it would change my opinion also. That's just a natural reaction, everything is great until it isn't.

silicosys4
May 3, 2014, 12:18 AM
there is a british accented person identifying himself as Ian/Ion. he does not have the disposition to be in customer care, if they even practice that at Kahr.

that said, my PM9 has been mint since day one.

Ahh...Ian and I have had a few conversations. He does seem rather curt. I suspect he is working some long hours at Kahr customer service these days and is a little tense.
Dealing with people all day who are P.O'd that their brand new gun doesn't work must be a thankless job.

JERRY
May 3, 2014, 09:22 AM
Ahh...Ian and I have had a few conversations. He does seem rather curt. I suspect he is working some long hours at Kahr customer service these days and is a little tense.
Dealing with people all day who are P.O'd that their brand new gun doesn't work must be a thankless job

at least hes getting paid, unlike the saps who spent hard earned cash to buy a gun that doesn't work....

C0untZer0
May 3, 2014, 09:32 AM
Just picked up a CM9.

I've manually racked the slide 260 times as of this morning.

Rcheli1
May 3, 2014, 09:56 AM
I considered kahr when I made my 9 mm purchase but luckily a friend let me know that they tend to have quality issues. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Ben86
May 4, 2014, 06:50 PM
Is the gun busting the followers?

C0untZer0
May 4, 2014, 08:43 PM
In some cases yes.

The problem can be fixed though.

xtphreak
May 5, 2014, 10:24 AM
It seems like the prices of Kahr have come down over the years, so perhaps QC has diminished??

I know about a decade ago I had a friend with two different .40 caliber Kahr models, both of which were so plagued with problems they were dumped back in Kahr's lap permanently.

I never seriously considered Kahr due to that. But in the last two years, I came into some great deals on used Kahrs. They are 9mm, and I've shot two of the three, and the two functioned perfectly. Kinda nervous about them all now after reading this thread.

It's the internet
It's a bitch thread
You're gonna find mostly folks bitching in a bitch thread
Makes a product look worse than it may be
YMMV

Ben86
May 5, 2014, 12:00 PM
I have never had a problem with my pm9. I have owned it for about 3 years. I hope they make this problem right, the pm9/cm9 is one of the few true pocket 9mms out there.

C0untZer0
May 6, 2014, 02:06 PM
I just took my magazine apart to make sure that the magazine wasn't installed backwards (it was) and I discovered that the follower was broken - I haven't even taken my CM9 to the range yet - I was just working my way through all the prep work that is recommended on the KahrTalk forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=198048&stc=1&d=1399395609

Djay
May 6, 2014, 02:07 PM
Wow! That is a really sad commentary on the state of Kahr service.

I bought an early Kahr K9 from them during their early years as a company. I called Kahr after having trouble holding the slide in the correct spot for slide removal. A very nice fellow told me he used a plastic spacer for take down. He sent me his personal fabricated spacer! (They now offer a commercially made one.)

Their early years customer service was exemplary. Sad to learn of your poor "current era" service.

oneounceload
May 6, 2014, 10:21 PM
Just picked up a CM9.

I've manually racked the slide 260 times as of this morning.

Why? If you go to the Kahr forums and follow the sage advice about checking the magazine springs, you should have no issues

JohnBT
May 7, 2014, 08:27 AM
"because the Rohrbaughs have sold the company and are re-locating the manufacturing equipment to South Carolina "

I heard they were moving production to North Carolina, but maybe that was just the new owner's mailing address - Remington's mailing address.

C0untZer0
May 7, 2014, 10:31 PM
Why? If you go to the Kahr forums and follow the sage advice about checking the magazine springs, you should have no issues

Jocko's sage advise is to rack the slide manually a numerous times.

#4. Now, with an empty gun and no magazine, rack the slide numerous times, this will help recoil spring set without the bang thing happening. Hand racking never replaces the actual "bang" thing but it does not hurt a thing either.

He didn't say to rack it 260 times, but manually racking a firearms shouldn't hurt it. I actually got all the way to 500 before I went to the range. I posted elsewhere that I ran 100 rounds of "NATO" ammo through it and only had one small problem - the slide didn't lock back on an empty mag, but I think my thumb was pushing down on the slide stop. I'm not counting that as a malfunction.

Having a piece of plastic fall out of the magazine can be a little disconcerting, but bottom line - my CM9 functioned well in its first outing.

Arizona_Mike
May 8, 2014, 03:31 AM
Now I feel bad because my PM40 has been absolutely flawlessly reliable. Accurate and low recoil too.

Mike

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