Mauser Safety Help Needed


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carbine85
January 28, 2014, 06:05 PM
This is the bolt assembly from my Spanish Mauser 7.62 Carbine. It's a military conversion
194192
The safety can't be engaged. I can't rotate it to the safe position. When the bolt is cock the cocking piece isn't coming back far enough for the safety catch to drop into. It's almost as if the barrel of the cocking piece is too long. I wondering if someone replaced it with the incorrect part.
Are there different lengths of Mauser Cocking pieces?
The bolt rotates normally and the trigger is fine.
I just bought this for a song and a dance along with a Turkish.

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dfariswheel
January 28, 2014, 06:53 PM
Unless the bolt is improperly reassembled, the "usual" situation is either a worn, altered, or replaced cocking piece or trigger sear "box".

If the cocking piece sear area is short, OR the sear portion of the sear box the trigger is pinned into is worn or altered, what's happening is that the cocking piece is sitting too far forward.
If the cocking piece is too far forward, the safety can't pass in front of the cocking piece and cam it back.

Areas to check and possibly replace are the very front of the cocking piece sear area, and the sear area on the trigger box.

First make certain you're reassembling the bolt properly.
If so, closely inspect the cocking piece and trigger box for signs of excessive wear, alteration by "Bubba", or parts that have been replaced.

DON'T grind a bevel on the top of the cocking piece to allow the safety to clear. This exposes soft metal and the safety will very quickly wear it and get hard to engage.

Icky The Great
January 28, 2014, 07:14 PM
The safety on these has a small lip that engages the outer rear of the firing pin assembly. Make for certain that you are pacing the notched area to the top. I believe these could be reassembled upside down. I believe its your lower most piece in the picture. If it does not have a groove it may have been a part from a commercial mauser as those safety's were along the side of the rear of the action.

Icky The Great
January 28, 2014, 07:19 PM
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/Mauser-33384.htm

carbine85
January 28, 2014, 08:06 PM
dfariswheel: I'm not sure I know what the trigger sear box is. Can you explain?
I tried comparing this to 2 other Mauser and this bolt assembly is the "cheaper version"

jose wales
January 28, 2014, 08:25 PM
I have a Spanish Mauser and have had trouble when first putting it back together, but if the the safety isn't put back together right it the safety won't work. But just keep the safety latch upright when putting it back together. Make sure it goes back into the notch in the housing. I've put on a safety from a Turkish Mauser on mine and it worked but that was just for reference purposes and it worked. Good luck

carbine85
January 28, 2014, 08:56 PM
I have taken it apart and back together several times. It looks like there is only one way to do it.
I guess I have to get into the trigger assembly and see if that's a problem and maybe order a new cocking piece.

Jim K
January 28, 2014, 09:59 PM
There is only one way to assemble that bolt. The problem is either 1) the sear has been cut down (stoned, filed, ground) so it isn't keeping the cocking piece back far enough or 2) the cocking piece has been cut down so it can go too far forward or 1) and 2).

That work was done by someone trying to "improve" the trigger pull on that old rifle.

I strongly suggest not firing the rifle without installing the proper parts to correct the problem and having the gun checked out by a gunsmith. There is no way of knowing what else might have been done to that rifle and it could be dangerous.

Jim

dfariswheel
January 29, 2014, 06:39 PM
The sear "box" is part 20 on this view:

http://www.stevespages.com/ipb-mauser-model98.html

Either the actual sear area is worn or altered, or the sear area of the cocking piece, part 1 is worn or altered.

Here's some info on assembling the bolts of various Mauser rifles:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110427085548/http://www.surplusrifle.com/garand/index.asp

fguffey
January 29, 2014, 09:13 PM
This a Spanish small ring Mauser converted to 7.62/308? And someone has taken a safety from a Turkish Mauser and installed it in the small ring/cock on closed Spanish Mauser?

I ask, which Turkish Mauser?

Then there is that part about the safety not engaging. The cocking piece slides onto the firing pin, after sliding the cocking piece onto the firing pin the cocking piece rotates to lock, it is possible the cocking piece is not locking into the correct grooves on the firing pin.

To determine how far the cocking piece is required to move back to engage the safety install the bolt and close then bull the cocking piece back while trying to rotate the safety. If it is necessary to pull the cocking piece to engage the safety releasing the safety could allow the rifle to fire.

My best guess would be the cocking piece in not installed gar enough forward on the firing pin before it is rotated to lock.

F. Guffey

When the safety is installed correctly the safety will be tight when engaged, if the trigger is holding the cocking piece the safety will be loose.

carbine85
January 30, 2014, 11:28 AM
This a Spanish small ring Mauser converted to 7.62/308? And someone has taken a safety from a Turkish Mauser and installed it in the small ring/cock on closed Spanish Mauser?

I ask, which Turkish Mauser?

Then there is that part about the safety not engaging. The cocking piece slides onto the firing pin, after sliding the cocking piece onto the firing pin the cocking piece rotates to lock, it is possible the cocking piece is not locking into the correct grooves on the firing pin.

To determine how far the cocking piece is required to move back to engage the safety install the bolt and close then bull the cocking piece back while trying to rotate the safety. If it is necessary to pull the cocking piece to engage the safety releasing the safety could allow the rifle to fire.

My best guess would be the cocking piece in not installed gar enough forward on the firing pin before it is rotated to lock.

F. Guffey

When the safety is installed correctly the safety will be tight when engaged, if the trigger is holding the cocking piece the safety will be loose.

This is a Spanish .308 and if I pull back on the cocking piece a small amount (1/16" or so) I can engage the safety. The safety is worn but the cocking piece looks pretty good and it doesn't look modified.
The cocking piece is all the way forward and the back of the firing pin just barely sticks out the back of the cocking.
It sounds like I need to find some parts.

LAGS
January 30, 2014, 07:06 PM
I agree that you should first find the correct part that fits your rifle, and have it Properly Fitted to your bolt assembly.
There may be a slight thickness differance between the cam on the Spanish Safety and that on the Turk.
Sometimes one can be fitted to work in another model of a similar rifle, but you have to know what you are looking for in the proper fitting of parts, Especially a Safety.
Things like this are explained very well in the Book " The Mauser Bolt Actions, a Shop Manual " by Jerry Kuhnhausen.
It is a Book I suggest you get if you own a Mauser rifle or want to work or maintain them.
It is WELL Worth the money.

fguffey
January 30, 2014, 08:15 PM
Sometimes one can be fitted to work in another model of a similar rifle, but you have to know what you are looking for in the proper fitting of parts, Especially a Safety.

LAGS, that is the reason I suggested he pull the cocking piece back. I had no ideal it would require .0625" travel before it would engage. I have close to 40 98 type safeties and 35 cock on close safeties. It is nice to have numbers match but not at the cost of fit.

The safety can be fit to the bolt/cocking piece, fitting is not for everyone.

F. Guffey

carbine85
January 30, 2014, 08:53 PM
I can fit these parts and make them work but I needed a few other things from Sarco so I just ordered replacements and see what happens. Worst case is I spent an extra $15 and have some spare parts.

LAGS
January 30, 2014, 09:59 PM
@ Carbine 85
Just pick and choose replacement of parts is NOT the way you go about getting a rifle to function Properly.
If you do not have the Knowledge of what to look for or how the parts are actually supposed to function , then you could be creating a More Danderous condition.
Getting other parts is fine, but the trial and error method is not a smart way to do gunsmithing.
That is the Bubba Gunsmith way of doing things.
Get the Dang Book and Learn Correctly.
Or sit down with someone with Experience in this type of work.
If you had the Knowledge now, you would already know what the problem is.
And just Hither Dither grinding of parts to get them to work is Not the way to go Either.
The Book also points out examples of Bubba Jobs and how they should not be done.
We can not SEE the part in our hands , and are very limited on what we can tell you to look for, unless you already know how they should work and what to test for.
If I had the rifle in my hands, I could tell you what was wrong in 5 minutes, and the Proper way to correct the problem.
But I will not try and walk someone with limited knowledge thru something as important as work on a Safety.

carbine85
January 31, 2014, 08:44 AM
@ Carbine 85
Just pick and choose replacement of parts is NOT the way you go about getting a rifle to function Properly.
If you do not have the Knowledge of what to look for or how the parts are actually supposed to function , then you could be creating a More Danderous condition.
Getting other parts is fine, but the trial and error method is not a smart way to do gunsmithing.
That is the Bubba Gunsmith way of doing things.
Get the Dang Book and Learn Correctly.
Or sit down with someone with Experience in this type of work.
If you had the Knowledge now, you would already know what the problem is.
And just Hither Dither grinding of parts to get them to work is Not the way to go Either.
The Book also points out examples of Bubba Jobs and how they should not be done.
We can not SEE the part in our hands , and are very limited on what we can tell you to look for, unless you already know how they should work and what to test for.
If I had the rifle in my hands, I could tell you what was wrong in 5 minutes, and the Proper way to correct the problem.
But I will not try and walk someone with limited knowledge thru something as important as work on a Safety.
I appreciate your input. Buying the correct replacement parts isn't a Bubba job or Hither Dither. Regardless of experience, installing known correct replacement parts has to be a good place to start. I did order the book.

LAGS
January 31, 2014, 06:58 PM
@ Carbine 85.
I am glad you are getting the book.
It will show you what you need to know to properly Fit the replacement parts, even if the parts are Brand New, or aftermarket.
Just because something Works, Doesn't always mean it is Working Right.

But I have seen too many guys just start replacing parts until it Works, or they think it works.
But in reality, they are installing a Miss fitted part to compinsate for a problem with another part, like a overstoned Sear or something.

Learn right, fix it right , and be safe

fguffey
February 6, 2014, 09:53 AM
This is a Spanish .308 and if I pull back on the cocking piece a small amount (1/16" or so) I can engage the safety. The safety is worn but the cocking piece looks pretty good and it doesn't look modified.

Carbine85, a shooter/reloader in Michigan had the same problem with a 98. He made a measurement, I sent him 3 safeties, I sent him instructions that went something like #1 will not fit, #2 will almost fit and #3 will fit.

Same problem with bolts, there are two individuals I can call when looking for a bolt that changes the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. Most suggest purchasing a bucket of bolts and start 'trial and error'.

F. Guffey

carbine85
February 6, 2014, 10:14 AM
Quote:
This is a Spanish .308 and if I pull back on the cocking piece a small amount (1/16" or so) I can engage the safety. The safety is worn but the cocking piece looks pretty good and it doesn't look modified.
Carbine85, a shooter/reloader in Michigan had the same problem with a 98. He made a measurement, I sent him 3 safeties, I sent him instructions that went something like #1 will not fit, #2 will almost fit and #3 will fit.

Same problem with bolts, there are two individuals I can call when looking for a bolt that changes the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. Most suggest purchasing a bucket of bolts and start 'trial and error'.

F. Guffey
If the parts house ever decides to ship the parts I'm going to try both the safety and cocking piece. So far the order has made it to the warehouse

fguffey
February 17, 2014, 12:42 PM
If the parts house ever decides to ship the parts I'm going to try both the safety and cocking piece. So far the order has made it to the warehouse

Just curious, by now there should have been some movement. I have 80+ safeties, some for older cock on close and the rest 98 style. My source across town 25+ miles has 500+ 98 type safeties.There is no way I can miss, there is a problem when keeping everything period correct and then there is the matching number thing.

F. Guffey

carbine85
February 17, 2014, 06:24 PM
Quote:
If the parts house ever decides to ship the parts I'm going to try both the safety and cocking piece. So far the order has made it to the warehouse
Just curious, by now there should have been some movement. I have 80+ safeties, some for older cock on close and the rest 98 style. My source across town 25+ miles has 500+ 98 type safeties.There is no way I can miss, there is a problem when keeping everything period correct and then there is the matching number thing.

F. Guffey
I finally received the parts last week. It was the safety lever. The replacement had a wider longer bevel cut into it.

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