Just Can't Trust my PM9 for EDC


PDA






JimC
January 29, 2014, 06:51 AM
I bought my PM9 NIB in 2011.
After thinking I had a pistol that was not subject to breaking followers, Mine broke 3 in the course of 300+ rds. I contacted Kahr and after some debate about who was going to pay to send it back, they agreed to send me a pre-paid return label.
Jay at Kahr made it clear that this was a one time exception.
They reworked the feed ramp and replaced a broken follower.
After getting it back, I fired a total of 220 rds. thru it on two separate occasions with no problems at all but, I still did not trust it for my EDC gun.
Fast forward to this past Monday. I was headed to my gun club and decided to take the PM9 along and run a 100 rds. thru it and give it another chance to make me feel comfortable. It had not been fired since 6.2013.

After only 37 rds. of WBB 115 gr. FMJ and this is what I found...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_1392_zpsb77f16fc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/KobraCarry/media/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_1392_zpsb77f16fc.jpg.html)

:fire:

Yes, the nut only came unscrewed but the point is, this is suppose to be a pistol for self protection that is suppose to work when called upon.

Yes, it can be screwed back on and hopefully kept tight with Loctite but IMO that is a Band-Aid that is unacceptable for a EDC gun.

I emailed Kahr CS twice and attached the photo. I asked that the recoil assembly be replaced under my 5 year warranty. I've heard nothing yet. :banghead:

If you enjoyed reading about "Just Can't Trust my PM9 for EDC" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
snooperman
January 29, 2014, 07:42 AM
Your complaint is too common from a company that makes guns in the U.S. Most gun makers have guns that have problems , S&W recall of the Shield, Ruger recalls etc. The difference is how they respond to the problems. Kahr gets an "F" for customer service. I also have a PM9 that is a POS and do not carry it, I carry the Keltec PF9. Keltec has a great customer service. So does S&W, Ruger, and Taurus.

PabloJ
January 29, 2014, 08:01 AM
When it comes to mass production items it might be wise to bypass such made in USA in favor of those made and assembled in Germany. This "developing country syndrome" is getting little long in the tooth by now. Though as original poster points out it's CCW weapon so perhaps it should be fired many hundreds of times.

19-3Ben
January 29, 2014, 08:04 AM
When it comes to mass production items it might be wise to bypass such made in USA in favor of those made and assembled in Germany. This "developing country syndrome" is getting little long in the tooth by now.

So you're saying American guns are inherently unreliable? Before the dog pile begins, I just want to make sure you're actually saying that. And for that matter, are you also saying German guns are inherently reliable?

JimC
January 29, 2014, 08:06 AM
These are two of my 5 mags on day one, 7.18.2011, with my PM9.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_2447_680x510_zpsd04237b8.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/KobraCarry/media/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_2447_680x510_zpsd04237b8.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_2446_680x510_zps1f0d5a8c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/KobraCarry/media/Kahr%20PM9/IMG_2446_680x510_zps1f0d5a8c.jpg.html)

Kahr took the gun back and POLISHED BARREL. REPLACED MAGS. LUBED. TEST FIRED GOOD. According to the tech service work sheet.

They have also replaced one other recoil assembly early on.

I have been asked why I keep the PM9 if it is so much of a problem? I really want to like and trust this gun and, I have too much invested in it to sell it. I would rather it took up a little space in my gun safe.

hentown
January 29, 2014, 08:08 AM
This is a sad commentary on an American-made, relatively expensive pistol. My youngest son's former g.f. bought just that pistol for her first handgun. No fun to shoot at all, to me. She should have bought a G26, instead. :cool:

BTW, isn't this the company that's owned by the son of the Moonie-in-Chief?

340PD
January 29, 2014, 09:08 AM
Jim. You have been all over the internet with your myriad of Kahr problems. I agree you have an issue, but for Gods sake dump that gun. You have been unhappy with it for two years. You also seem too lazy to screw the retainer back on with a drop of loctite.

Keep it in your safe? What for? You hate that gun and the company that made it.

Move on and pick up a Glock, S&W, or Sig. They never have issues.

Vodoun da Vinci
January 29, 2014, 09:15 AM
Keep it in your safe? What for? You hate that gun and the company that made it.

Move on and pick up a Glock, S&W, or Sig. They never have issues.

Life is too short to depend on a pistol that dun't work or satisfy...maybe even shorter if you try and defend yer life with it. I don't think any current pistols are "perfect" but certainly we have to keep looking when stuff like this become chronic.

I have thousands thru my G26 at this time - not one single failure of any kind. Not one. Pretty much the same with my Beretta Px4 except the sights were not shooting to POA - which I just got fixed with new sights.

VooDoo

JimC
January 29, 2014, 09:34 AM
Jim. You have been all over the internet with your myriad of Kahr problems. I agree you have an issue, but for Gods sake dump that gun. You have been unhappy with it for two years. You also seem too lazy to screw the retainer back on with a drop of loctite.

Keep it in your safe? What for? You hate that gun and the company that made it.

340PD,

Not true, I don't recall being "all over the Internet with my myriad of Kahr problems". I never stated that I hate it or Kahr in general, those my friend are your choice of words.

I won't take a loss like I will with what I have into the gun. I will keep it to remind myself of what a bad choice I made.

The nut has been screwed back on with Loctite applied. ;)

I'm not a Kahr fan boy like you and the other followers on Kahr Talk. I call it like I see it and they, Kahr, has dropped the ball on many of their pistols and their CS.

I guess I'm a Brand Basher for posting the truth...:what:

snooperman
January 29, 2014, 11:02 AM
Right-on JimC, you should bash them for the gun you got and their sorry customer service. We deserve better, and we should hold them accountable for the products they make, if we expect them to improve.

texagun
January 29, 2014, 11:17 AM
Sorry to hear about all your problems. I would try calling them on the telephone rather than relying on emails which tend to get lost. I bought a new PM9 in 2006 and it has been 100% reliable and amazingly accurate for such a small gun. Sure hope you get your problems worked out.

hardluk1
January 29, 2014, 12:30 PM
Looking for someone to tell you to sell it?? Sell it !! Do what you want. I have never had a bad firearm .

wow6599
January 29, 2014, 12:38 PM
Man, there has been a lot of Kahr bashing over the past week or two.

My PM9 has never let me down, and the CM9 I bought my wife never let me down. I guess I'm one of the very select few who has a gotten the good ones :rolleyes:

wally
January 29, 2014, 01:05 PM
My PM9 has never let me down, and the CM9 I bought my wife never let me down. I guess I'm one of the very select few who has a gotten the good ones

No you probably just haven't shot it enough.

I can forgive "infant mortality" failures if they make it right (paying shipping both ways to fix it). But I can't forgive not supporting one when the frame breaks :(

Here is the broken front frame rail on my CW9 It had been problem free for thousands of practice rounds until this happed.

Stuff breaks, so I'm not upset that it broke, Im upset that they are offering EAA level of customer support -- basically nothing, send it back at your expense and we will tell you how much we'll charge to fix it :(
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=194173&d=1390929171

Every gun is great when it works, everyone lets a bad gun get out, its how they take care of the bad ones that makes a particular gun worth buying or not.

I've invested too much time and money in practice ammo to carry a pistol with poor customer support. I'll be switching to S&W Shield soon.

Fact of the matter is "if you've never broken a gun, you just ain't been shooting enough!"

wow6599
January 29, 2014, 01:15 PM
Wally, I have asked this to you before in another thread (I think), but what did Kahr say to you when you reached out to them?

wow6599
January 29, 2014, 01:17 PM
Also, was the 5 year warranty up? You said you shot "thousands of practice rounds" through it, and if the the warranty is up.........what do you want from them?

Teachu2
January 29, 2014, 01:27 PM
I'd rather have no warranty from a company that stands behind their products - like Ruger - than a five-year warranty from a company that doesn't.

Of course, a large percentage of handguns don't see 500 rounds in their lifetimes. Those owners can buy anything and be perfectly happy.

JimC
January 29, 2014, 01:35 PM
Looking for someone to tell you to sell it?? Sell it !!

As I previously stated, not an option that I care to consider. ;)

Control
January 29, 2014, 02:24 PM
Good for you Jim on not selling it. I don't like to see folks mention that they are dumping a problem gun. That's dishonest in my opinion. If it's junk, don't pass the buck on to the next guy.

I had three PM9s and none worked right. Kahr replaced the gun three times. The last one I got I returned to the gunshop unopened and they gave me a refund towards something else. I spent more time on the phone and with shipping than I care to mention.

Please consider a S&W 642 or M&P340. That's where I landed. The small autos are tough to run reliably but the J frame just seems to work. S&W customer service is very good as we'll if you need them. The only issue I've ever had was with a chip in a new guns grips and they send me new ones free of charge.

JimC
January 29, 2014, 06:18 PM
Good for you Jim on not selling it. I don't like to see folks mention that they are dumping a problem gun. That's dishonest in my opinion. If it's junk, don't pass the buck on to the next guy.

You are correct and this was also a factor in my decision not to try and sell it off.

Please consider a S&W 642 or M&P340.

I've been back to my old tried and trusted G27 as my EDC gun for sometime now.

Control
January 29, 2014, 06:50 PM
G27 is a good choice. The baby Glock's are not quite pocket sized like the PM9 (unless you have big pockets) but they run!

Like you, I really wanted the PM9 to work out and tried hard to "fix it." It took me a while to accept that it was not going to work out...

I do wonder if Glock did not release the 42 (their new smaller .380) in 9mm because they could not get it to run reliably in 9mm at that size. I would love to be proven wrong and for them to release a Glock 42 sized 9mm. It would be Kinda like a Kahr but reliable. :)

460Kodiak
January 29, 2014, 06:56 PM
You have a lemon dude.... and that sucks.

I'd dump it in a heart beat, AFTER it has been sent back for repairs and returned. In fact I've dumped guns for less severe issues.

wally
January 29, 2014, 06:57 PM
Also, was the 5 year warranty up? You said you shot "thousands of practice rounds" through it, and if the the warranty is up.........what do you want from them? About three years roughly 50 rounds/week probably a bit over 6000 rounds total. Just dug up the receipt, purchased 11/13/1010.

Obviously I've spent a good bit more on ammo run through it than I did on the gun, but any quality manufacturer should be embarrassed by frame failure, warranty period or not and try to make it right, it should be worth something to them to get it back to analyze the failure if they really cared about quality.

Any other "wear parts" they can just sell me and I'd be happy, but the frame is the gun and a rip-off to ship back if you have to pay (and aren't an FFL). It'll cost them like $10 to Email a prepaid return label from FedEx or UPS. like S&W, Ruger, Kel-Tec, Charter Arms, etc. has done for me in the past. It'll cost me like $65 as an individual :(

tomrkba
January 29, 2014, 07:16 PM
S&W replaced the frame on my friend's 1911...after he had fired 45,000+ rounds through it. It was a one time deal though.

Kahr took care of my K9, but that's because it had the NATO barrel.

Joespapa
January 29, 2014, 07:33 PM
Jim. You have been all over the internet with your myriad of Kahr problems. I agree you have an issue, but for Gods sake dump that gun. You have been unhappy with it for two years. You also seem too lazy to screw the retainer back on with a drop of loctite.

Keep it in your safe? What for? You hate that gun and the company that made it.

Move on and pick up a Glock, S&W, or Sig. They never have issues.

Better still, get a REVOLVER!

wow6599
January 29, 2014, 08:31 PM
Just dug up the receipt, purchased 11/13/1010.

Then they should fix it at no cost to you. I would raise hell......ask for the supervisor in charge; tell them to look at some of the pics / threads here on THR. Don't give up.

I am a big Kahr fan, but if they don't honor their warranty, then they are not a company anyone should do business with. To me, it doesn't matter if you ran 600, 6,000, or 60,000 rds through it - it's under the warranty your given when you bought it.

I'm a PM9 owner and hope you keep trying to get it resolved. Please update if anything changes.

gb6491
January 30, 2014, 09:45 AM
Stuff breaks, so I'm not upset that it broke, Im upset that they are offering EAA level of customer support -- basically nothing, send it back at your expense and we will tell you how much we'll charge to fix it
I understand being upset with having to foot the shipping costs (have had to do it myself with several different firearms), but am I understanding this correctly in that Kahr hasn't seen this pistol yet to make a determination if the repair is covered under warranty or not?

For the record, I like Kahr pistols. I had some issues with my CW45, but once those were worked out (didn't send it back) it's been rock solid. The CW9 has been good to go from day one (though I did buy it used). Now that said, I do think Kahr customer service and Kahr magazines could stand improvement.

Regards,
Greg

wally
January 30, 2014, 01:47 PM
Then they should fix it at no cost to you. I would raise hell......ask for the supervisor in charge; tell them to look at some of the pics / threads here on THR. Don't give up.

I may eventually but right now I've got more important things on my plate, my Mon has been taken ill, possibly terminal, too soon to be sure. :(
I'm just killing some time at the moment during the wait for more test results to come in.

JimC
January 31, 2014, 01:33 PM
I just received an email response from Matt @ Kahr Arms CS.
He is sending a new recoil assembly out to replace the one that failed in my PM9. :D

orionengnr
January 31, 2014, 09:59 PM
I've had my PM9 since 2005 or so. It still works just fine.
Mine's recoil spring assembly has never come un-done. Maybe I'll take it apart and put a drop of Loc-Tite on it. Probably not, though.

I've been around long enough to have seen both the ejector rods and the strain screws on revolvers come unscrewed and cause the revolver to either tie up or fail to fire. Threaded fasteners can come un-done. It doesn't happen often, but it happens. That's why they invented Loc-Tite.

I also have a P45 that I bought about a year after the PM9. It, too, works fine. Had a PM45 briefly, and it worked fine too--a friend still owns it.

My LGS just today told me that I will soon be receiving the CW380 that I've been awaiting for quite a while. I'm looking forward to trying it out.

JimC
February 1, 2014, 07:52 AM
The retaining nut on the CM and PM9 recoil assemblies coming loose or flying off and not being found is a well documented problem on another Kahr specific forum.
I never thought I would have that problem with mine due to the number of rounds thru my PM9 and changing the unit out as per the recommendation of Kahr CS if the gun was used as a EDC gun. They recommend every 1200-1500 rds. if a EDC gun.
Followers breaking is another well documented issue. By Kahr paying to have guns sent in and modifying the feed ramp it is admitting to the issue IMO.
I had to send my PM9 in earlier this year for this after breaking three followers in 300 or so rounds.
They are now experiencing guns failing to fire when the trigger is pulled ALL the way to the rear. Trigger bars that are too long?
As a retired LEO firearms instructor, armorer and very experienced firearm user, I would never recommend the use of Loctite to resolve an issue such as this when it comes to an EDC gun.
Replace the part and rely on the new part or take the gun out of service.

Fleetman
February 1, 2014, 09:40 AM
I have and carry a PM45....probably has over 2k rounds through it and I've never had any type of malfunction.

plateshooter
February 1, 2014, 09:42 AM
The retaining nut vanished on my CM9 too. I emailed Kahr and they sent me a new recoil spring assembly. The problem was that it was too short for the CM9. I took the retainer off of it and put it on my original assembly. I used red locktite. Whatever they had on the original one was some brownish goo. Gun is back up and running again. Waiting to see what the next adventure will be with that thing. When it runs, it is a great pistol for my uses. After the feed ramp mod, broken followers, the retainer going into space, I hope I am done repairing it and can now just enjoy shooting it.

wow6599
February 1, 2014, 11:42 AM
The retaining nut on the CM and PM9 recoil assemblies coming loose or flying off and not being found is a well documented problem on another Kahr specific forum.

This is the only problem I have experienced, and it happened somewhere between rds 150 and 200......but it still ran.

I spoke with the British CS rep, and I jumped all over him. He said I could go to their website and order a new one, I told him BS - he could send me one free of charge.

I had a new one in a few days.

Potatohead
February 1, 2014, 12:08 PM
Just dug up the receipt, purchased 11/13/1010.


1010? I'd say your warranty is up:neener:

krupparms
February 1, 2014, 12:22 PM
I have a PM9. It only has about 300rds thru it. The magazines don't want to hold rounds well. After reading this I will be getting rid of it! Won't deal with companys with poor C.S.! Kahr needs to get its act together if they want to stay around!

If you enjoyed reading about "Just Can't Trust my PM9 for EDC" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!