Is this the most Annoying Anti-Gun Statement?


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Sgt.Murtaugh
January 30, 2014, 10:34 AM
I hear it all the time and it makes me wanna slap the person:

"you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense"

I've heard variations but it's obviously the same talking point...

It's such a dumb statement I don't even know how to respond.

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silicosys4
January 30, 2014, 11:04 AM
To me the most annoying anti gun statement is:
"I support the 2A BUT....."

Arkansas Paul
January 30, 2014, 11:05 AM
"I support the 2A BUT....."

I think that is my most hated too.
Although the one in the OP is really annoying too.

medalguy
January 30, 2014, 11:09 AM
I've seen FBI figures somewhere that refute this nonsense but I can't remember where I saw them. Anyone know?

Midwest
January 30, 2014, 11:12 AM
I hear it all the time and it makes me wanna slap the person:

"you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense"

I've heard variations but it's obviously the same talking point...

It's such a dumb statement I don't even know how to respond.
Were did they get that figure from? Piers Morgan?

bigbayou87
January 30, 2014, 11:20 AM
Its like saying you're more likely to drown your self or a loved one if you own a swimming pool...

Sgt.Murtaugh
January 30, 2014, 11:29 AM
Its like saying you're more likely to drown your self or a loved one if you own a swimming pool...
yea exactly... or you're 43x more likely to die in a car wreck if you have a car.

Midwest
January 30, 2014, 11:29 AM
To me the most annoying anti gun statement is:
"I support the 2A BUT....."
I find that most annoying as well.

TUBBY1
January 30, 2014, 11:41 AM
The best response to any of them I saw on an earlier thread, laugh heartily and say " that's a good one" as your walking away.

TanklessPro
January 30, 2014, 11:48 AM
To me the most annoying anti gun statement is:
"I support the 2A BUT....."
Agree to that

Telekinesis
January 30, 2014, 11:50 AM
"you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense"

Several years ago I actually looked at the study that made this claim (the Kellerman study IIRC). It was so filled with holes that it wouldn't have even passed muster as a freshman's undergraduate project. It suffered from multiple issues in methodology and had a good bit of selection bias. Even worse the study kept changing its story so much that even people who were inclined to believe it (on an academic level) had to admit that it wasn't valid. I believe the number was changed 3 or 4 times.

To me the most frustrating thing is gun owners who will throw everyone else under the bus as long as their bolt rifle and shotgun are safe.

My parents used to be like that, they were fine with me owning a shotgun, but couldn't see why I'd want a semi-auto rifle, a pistol, or a CCW and made sure to tell me I was wrong for having them every chance they got. Well, about a year ago during the scare, they came running to me asking what AR they should buy, wanted recommendations on pistols, and then got CCW permits.

316SS
January 30, 2014, 11:50 AM
Them: "I support the 2A, but you are 43 times more likely to be killed with your own gun than use it against an attacker. Plus, no one needs an AR-47 to hunt deer. They have one purpose, and one purpose only, to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time."

Me: "Have you ever had an original thought in your entire life?"

I had virtually this exact conversation with my BIL years ago. Now he owns some property, several guns, and I don't hear this kind of thing from him any more. He's a smart guy, so he figured it out on his own.

GEM
January 30, 2014, 11:58 AM
I don't see why I need a 30 round clip of cop-killer bullets to take my five year old son hunting (or something close to it).

From bloviating Morning Joe Scarborough.

Skribs
January 30, 2014, 12:01 PM
The problem is most of the studies are biased. For example, looking at the number of "kids" killed by firearms usually involves people under 25 and a lot of the stats come from gang territory.

Then again, a lot of pro-gun studies are biased, too, through a combination of selective text and the fact that "NRA Survey" is more likely to be answered by Pro-2A individuals.

I agree with Silicosys: "I support 2A, BUT..." is the most annoying. It's like saying "no offense, but..." and then proceeding to insult the person with immunity because you said "no offense." How about "I support 3A, but I think our soldiers should require quarter in certain times." How about "I support 1A, but not if you're (insert religion of person you are talking to here)." How about "I support 1A, but not if you criticize the government." The amendment either exists in its entirety or we have failed as a people to control our government.

buck460XVR
January 30, 2014, 12:05 PM
I've seen FBI figures somewhere that refute this nonsense but I can't remember where I saw them. Anyone know?

Results showing the same have been published off and on over the years by various organizations, mostly those involved in heath care and medicine.


Here's a link to one just published.....http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/20/study-finds-people-with-guns-more-at-risk-for-suicide-and-homicide.html

Inebriated
January 30, 2014, 12:16 PM
"You don't need an assault rifle to yadda yadda yadda..."

FBI stats show that RIFLES in general account for 300-some of the guns used in homicides each year for the last 2 or 3. If ALL of them are "assault rifles", it's still about a half a percent, if I remember correctly. It shows that no one has done any research at all. And that's fine for the hardcore anti's, I know that research isn't even a concern, they just want them gone. But for normal people to sit back and parrot what the MSM is saying, without any attempt at verification, or hell, even the slightest bit of skepticism, it's enraging.

AlexanderA
January 30, 2014, 01:26 PM
To me the most annoying anti gun statement is:
"I support the 2A BUT....."

Bingo. This has become a mantra for practically every anti-gun politician. Who do they think they're fooling? I have more respect for those few who come right out and say we should repeal the 2nd Amendment. But of course that would never happen and they know it.

Schwing
January 30, 2014, 01:29 PM
Meh...

I just keep voting and taking people to the range to shoot.

PiratePenguin
January 30, 2014, 02:28 PM
"you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense"

This comes from misreadings/misunderstandings of several studies that have been conducted on firearms and death rates.

Suicide

The suicide figures frequently quoted suffer from a significant amount of selection bias, because they only look at "successful" suicides. If you look at suicide attempts, things change.

Firearms are not the most popular way of committing suicide, despite what some people would have you believe. Ten times as many people try to poison themselves or OD. Three times as many people use a blade. What firearms do have that other methods do not is a high success rate.

A study performed by the Harvard School of Public Health found that "The higher rates of suicide among gun owners and their families cannot be explained by higher rates of suicidal behavior". Gun owners are not more likely to attempt suicide, but they are more likely to succeed.

Conclusion: Buying a gun will not make you suicidal if you are not already. If you are suicidal, stay away from firearms.


Homicide

Several of the studies frequently quoted (and re-analyzed in the metastudy mentioned in the Beast article linked by a previous poster) have major problems with the methodology.

The Kellerman study, for example, counted all instances of firearm homicide, whether they had been committed with the gun kept in the home or not. It turns out that less that 15% of the firearms homicides being counted fit that description, which significantly lowers the risks.

Other studies ignore many potential confounding factors, such as involvement in crime. One study found that 71% of gunshot victims had been previously arrested and 64% convicted. Another study found that 60% of homicide victims had drug violations on their record. When you control for factors like these—and I assume you're not involved in the drug trade!—the added risk of owning a gun shrinks even more.

Unfortunately, explaining the problems with the studies doesn't easily fit in a soundbite, so you'll exhaust most people's attention span before you convince them.

Drail
January 30, 2014, 02:34 PM
Just tell them that if they drive an automobile they are 43 times as likely to die in a crash. Just common sense.

alfon99
January 30, 2014, 04:32 PM
This comes from misreadings/misunderstandings of several studies that have been conducted on firearms and death rates.

Suicide

The suicide figures frequently quoted suffer from a significant amount of selection bias, because they only look at "successful" suicides. If you look at suicide attempts, things change.

Firearms are not the most popular way of committing suicide, despite what some people would have you believe. Ten times as many people try to poison themselves or OD. Three times as many people use a blade. What firearms do have that other methods do not is a high success rate.

A study performed by the Harvard School of Public Health found that "The higher rates of suicide among gun owners and their families cannot be explained by higher rates of suicidal behavior". Gun owners are not more likely to attempt suicide, but they are more likely to succeed.

Conclusion: Buying a gun will not make you suicidal if you are not already. If you are suicidal, stay away from firearms.


Homicide

Several of the studies frequently quoted (and re-analyzed in the metastudy mentioned in the Beast article linked by a previous poster) have major problems with the methodology.

The Kellerman study, for example, counted all instances of firearm homicide, whether they had been committed with the gun kept in the home or not. It turns out that less that 15% of the firearms homicides being counted fit that description, which significantly lowers the risks.

Other studies ignore many potential confounding factors, such as involvement in crime. One study found that 71% of gunshot victims had been previously arrested and 64% convicted. Another study found that 60% of homicide victims had drug violations on their record. When you control for factors like these—and I assume you're not involved in the drug trade!—the added risk of owning a gun shrinks even more.

Unfortunately, explaining the problems with the studies doesn't easily fit in a soundbite, so you'll exhaust most people's attention span before you convince them.
Guns are not the most popular way of commiting suicide, but if someone really wants to commit suicide, there is no way you can stop him. There are hundreds of ways of killing yourself. If he has a gun he would probably use it to kill himself, but if he hasn't got one, he could jump off a highrise. Or maybe poisoning, or blade.

torqem
January 30, 2014, 05:00 PM
It's not a case of mere "annoyance", it's a deadly threat to your life and liberty, actually. Whether or not the speaker knows it does not change what it is.

316SS
January 30, 2014, 09:19 PM
Just tell them that if they drive an automobile they are 43 times as likely to die in a crash. Just common sense.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was quite a bit more than 43 times more likely.

texasgun
January 30, 2014, 09:36 PM
"Nobody needs [fill in type of gun] to hunt deer"

Midwest
January 30, 2014, 09:41 PM
Guns are not the most popular way of commiting suicide,
Or committing murder......


Most of the serial killers didn't use guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims

The top 3 serial killers in the U.S. used other methods.

ChCx2744
January 30, 2014, 09:51 PM
The only people that should have guns are cops and soldier guys.

Guns go off by themselves and kill people all the time. My mom told me that she was killed 10 times by a gun going off by itself.

Anyone who has a gun is crazy.

ConstitutionCowboy
January 30, 2014, 09:52 PM
The question I find most annoying is, "What do you need a gun for?" I respond with, "I don't know why I need a gun - but I'll be damned if I ever get caught without one!"

If they follow up with, "What the h... does that mean?" I answer, "I won't know why I need a gun until the need does arise. 'Till then, I'm prepared."

Woody

Skribs
January 30, 2014, 10:02 PM
The answer to "are you expecting to be attacked" is "no, but I'm not expecting a fire either and I have a fire extinguisher."

HexHead
January 30, 2014, 10:13 PM
I cringe when I hear the words "common sense" or "reasonable".

Guy B. Meredith
January 30, 2014, 10:39 PM
There are a lot of problems with these "stats" and we need to STOP dealing with them in their own context as if that was any part of reality. I am really tired of this bigoted dreck.

"XXX times more likely to shoot yourself or be shot by a family member than for self defense." Interesting if firearms are used only for self defense and killing family members. They aren't. Nor for hunting.

We really need to get the message across that a huge (HUGE) number of rounds are fired for totally non lethal competition for each one used in hunting, defense, suicide or criminal pursuit. I haven't sat down and researched the figures, but it would be in the thousands of times as much volume for competition compared to other non military uses.

As far as the relative danger of a firearm in the house, instead of loaded "stats" try simple math. Take the best numbers you can find for the number of domestic firearms homicides (a figure I saw from the DOJ was around 280 in the year studied. 2012?) and divide that into the number of gun owning households with family, partners or whatever. The result should be that a firearm is about 10,000 times more likely to be used for competitive shooting or not at all as used against domestic partners in any given year.

"Guns are only made for killing" shows an incredible ignorance of the market in competition firearms and ammo which is definitely NOT made for killing as a primary purpose.

As for "you don't need...". Since when has need become a valid criteria? The market is awash with things we don't need but don't get in the way of people who want them. Try cabbage patch dolls for one.

And then there are "gun nuts are just a bunch of fat old white men" and "it's all about genital envy":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTrutPuAbdc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTuk4DbT6q0

People who want to restrict actions of responsible people need to have a constant deluge of reality thrown at them non stop.

HammsBeer
January 30, 2014, 11:28 PM
If they want to pick and choose what the 2A grants you, then see if they are ok with you picking and choosing what the 1A grants them. Not many people are willing to have restrictions on their free speech.

Oh, and swimming pools kill more young children than guns. Maybe we should ban swimming pools? http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2013/09/29/how_common_are_child_gun_accidents_666.html

mrdeltoid
January 30, 2014, 11:39 PM
It is possible that the odds of a gun being use against you or a family member are higher than it being used against an intruder. BUT that is only because you are around the gun more often than the intruder.

I would also say that I am more likely to cut myself with one of my own kitchen knives than I am to stab an intruder with it.

Faulty reasoning taken out of context. That's all it is.

Guy B. Meredith
January 30, 2014, 11:41 PM
Intruder/domestic thing includes suicides which are roughly half of all firearms homicides. The fact that more intruders are scared off than shot should be something to celebrate.

Rusty Luck
January 30, 2014, 11:52 PM
I don't know about the most annoying but this thought process/line of thinking (without knowledge) is beyond annoying. Too many reasons to shake my head.

“This is a ghost gun,” Senator de Leon begins, holding an unloaded rifle in his hands. “This right here has the ability with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Thirty magazine clip in half a second.”

LINK to the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iJmFEv6BHM0

Roons
January 31, 2014, 12:11 AM
"common sense"

ngnrd
January 31, 2014, 12:19 AM
Compromise.

Twiki357
January 31, 2014, 12:37 AM
Are there any “Anti” comments that are not annoying?

Skribs
January 31, 2014, 12:42 AM
Are there any “Anti” comments that are not annoying?

One, that Sam brought up in another thread recently. "Don't bring gun control up right now, it's a dead issue."

Glocktogo
January 31, 2014, 01:52 AM
"you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense"

"You know every time you open your mouth, God is 43x more likely to kill a kitten?" :neener:

Kurt S.
January 31, 2014, 01:57 AM
The famous "43 X blah blah" statement may not be the most annoying, but it's on the list for being the dumbest. And the most easily refuted.

steelerdude99
January 31, 2014, 07:58 AM
This line (or lie) irks me most: "90 percent of Americans want expanded background checks on guns".

Midwest
January 31, 2014, 08:25 AM
I cringe when I hear the words "common sense" or "reasonable".
That is # 2 on my list as most annoying anti-gun statement

Armymutt
January 31, 2014, 08:43 AM
This line (or lie) irks me most: "90 percent of Americans want expanded background checks on guns".

When I hear this one, I ask if they are in favor of slavery, reject the right of women to vote, etc. Most of the abhorrent activities in our past that are now legal were favored by the majority.

I also like the whole "what militia are you in?" My response - "Do you believe that only all men are created equal?"

Pilot
January 31, 2014, 09:40 AM
"Nobody needs [fill in type of gun] to hunt deer"
This is a consistent mantra of the anti gun establishment. Remember, Gov. Cuomo saying "You don't need ten bullets to kill a Deaaah"? They want to brainwash the public into thinking the 2A is about hunting while nothing could be further from the truth.

Just more lies from the statists. The 2A is to specifically protect US from THEM.

MedWheeler
January 31, 2014, 11:16 AM
The original assertion is that "one is 43 times more likely to be killed with their own firearm (or have a house-mate so killed) than to use it to kill an intruder."

Now, even if that is true, and it may well be, it does not take into consideration the possibility of using one's firearm to otherwise stop an intrusion without the intruder being killed. Those types of incidents outnumber intruder-killed ones thousands of times to one.

JustinJ
January 31, 2014, 11:28 AM
you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense

Whether it is 43x more likely or 10x I don't really care. My right to defend myself and my loved ones is not to be limited by the irresponsible actions of others.

herrwalther
January 31, 2014, 12:52 PM
Most recently, the most annoying anti 2A statement is "common sense solutions" or some variation of those words. My common sense says stay away from the second Amendment. Enforce the laws already in place.

tarosean
January 31, 2014, 12:53 PM
The musket comment is the one that chaps me most..

Stevie-Ray
January 31, 2014, 01:26 PM
"I support the 2A BUT....."
I always annoy them right back by interrupting and saying "....No buts; you either support it or you don't!" Pisses them right off.

I've generally got an answer for every idiotic factoid and anti-gun sentiment. Comes from a lot of practice when I was working.

Crowcifier666
January 31, 2014, 04:52 PM
Most recently, the most annoying anti 2A statement is "common sense solutions" or some variation of those words. My common sense says stay away from the second Amendment. Enforce the laws already in place.

^ This. There is crime because the laws are not enforced to their full potential. If ALL laws were enforced even 25% more than they are now, I guarantee you much more than half the country would be "criminals". That said, I went 20 over the speed limit today...:D Not saying more enforcement is a good thing, but, maybe we should focus on enforcing the laws instead of creating new laws that won't stop any crime.

Cee Zee
February 1, 2014, 01:19 AM
I think it's probably pretty close to being true that you are 100% more likely to shoot a family member if you own a gun or have access to one. And again almost 100% of car fatalities occur among people who ride in cars. And almost all airplane deaths occur when people ride in them.

You can cook statistics to say anything you want. All you need is a good loaded question like, "Do you support gun control or do you think we should just go ahead and shoot all babies?" All the poll companies use loaded questions. All of them. Seriously how it is that they know how often guns are used to repel intruders? No statistics are kept on that. How do they know how many people own guns and which ones own them? Who keeps those records?

Do they really think murder will go away if we get rid of guns? I guess they've never seen the effectiveness of a bow and arrow or a knife or a sword. People have been killing each other since Cain and Abel. They don't need guns to do it. Bombs are quite effective. So are rocks thrown from catapults and trebuchets not to mention burning oil, traps, snares, feeding people to the lions, the rack, guillotines, rolling rocks down big hills, and the all time favorite of many - fire. Set someone's house on fire while they're asleep and there's a good chance they will die.

They can't eliminate evil from the world. But then they don't really want to.

Bezoar
February 1, 2014, 01:26 AM
so the following is more logical.


1. if the dog doesnt get let out at 2 am, hes going to poop on the new carpet.

2. if the dog doesnt get fed, hes going to eat the chicken on the counter

3. if your not feeding the dog or letting it out to poop, your not a good dog person.

cuervo
February 2, 2014, 06:02 PM
Whenever I see "you can't yell fire in a theater" as an analogy for gun control, I know that the person making the statement lost the argument before it even began.

For the "43x" argument, at least the person is trying to use logic from a study on the topic. You can then bring up how that study as been criticized and even its author, Kellerman, admits that number is taken out of context.

jerkface11
February 2, 2014, 06:06 PM
Whenever I see "you can't yell fire in a theater" as an analogy for gun control, I know that the person making the statement lost the argument before it even began.

Just point out that you aren't trying to plink in a a theater either.

torqem
February 2, 2014, 09:40 PM
How about we all just tell them "You'll take my guns at the cost of your life, and then I 'll hunt up your buddies, too"?

Carl N. Brown
February 2, 2014, 11:06 PM
I think the 43x jurisdiction had 37 suicides with gun, 1 home invader killed with gun and five gun homicides/accidents.

Akita1
February 3, 2014, 05:18 PM
"Nobody needs [fill in type of gun] to hunt deer"
Nobody needs a whiny little b*tch either, yet there they are in front of you spouting ignorant nonsense.

It's always ignorance, sometimes chosen ignorance!

guitarguy314
February 3, 2014, 05:52 PM
Silicosys4:

To me the most annoying anti gun statement is:
"I support the 2A BUT....."

This, a thousand times this.

kvtcomdo
February 5, 2014, 05:06 PM
Results showing the same have been published off and on over the years by various organizations, mostly those involved in heath care and medicine.


Here's a link to one just published.....http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/20/study-finds-people-with-guns-more-at-risk-for-suicide-and-homicide.html
And they have been refuted nicely.

HKVP70Z
February 5, 2014, 05:28 PM
Several years ago I actually looked at the study that made this claim (the Kellerman study IIRC). It was so filled with holes that it wouldn't have even passed muster as a freshman's undergraduate project. It suffered from multiple issues in methodology and had a good bit of selection bias. Even worse the study kept changing its story so much that even people who were inclined to believe it (on an academic level) had to admit that it wasn't valid. I believe the number was changed 3 or 4 times.

To me the most frustrating thing is gun owners who will throw everyone else under the bus as long as their bolt rifle and shotgun are safe.

My parents used to be like that, they were fine with me owning a shotgun, but couldn't see why I'd want a semi-auto rifle, a pistol, or a CCW and made sure to tell me I was wrong for having them every chance they got. Well, about a year ago during the scare, they came running to me asking what AR they should buy, wanted recommendations on pistols, and then got CCW permits.
That sounds like what the NRA did a few years ago, it's okay as long as we are exempted. (Disclose Act 2010)

Teachu2
February 5, 2014, 06:03 PM
Guns are not the most popular way of commiting suicide, but if someone really wants to commit suicide, there is no way you can stop him. There are hundreds of ways of killing yourself. If he has a gun he would probably use it to kill himself, but if he hasn't got one, he could jump off a highrise. Or maybe poisoning, or blade.

My father was a PO when I was a kid, and he'd occasionally take me with him when he got called out in the evening hours. He got called to ID a parolee that had straightened out a large safety pin and stabbed himself in the heart - 43 times! "Safety pin", huh?

I went with him enough to know, at a deeply personal level, that I wanted to avoid drugs, alcohol, prison, and women who were missing teeth....

tomrkba
February 5, 2014, 07:10 PM
I love it when they trot out their "2A cred".

"I grew up with guns, shooting a 22 and a shotgun with grandpa. I went hunting once but never killed an animal."

They are all the same: they push sporting and hunting guns and follow it with "I support the Second Amendment but..."

RetiredUSNChief
February 5, 2014, 08:09 PM
I hear it all the time and it makes me wanna slap the person:

"you know you are 43x more likely to use that gun against yourself or a loved one than you are on an intruder or in self-defense"

I've heard variations but it's obviously the same talking point...

It's such a dumb statement I don't even know how to respond.

My response?

"Prove it."

Most people can't even cite their sources. And when they do, then they've opened up the field for ME to cite MY sources.

;)

Carl N. Brown
February 5, 2014, 08:18 PM
But you are several times more likely to to hang yourself dead from the closet rod with a tie than use it to garrot a home invader.

DeadMoneyDrew
February 6, 2014, 12:47 PM
But you are several times more likely to to hang yourself dead from the closet rod with a tie than use it to garrot a home invader.

You're also more likely to be shot with your own gun if you own a gun than if you don't own one. :-)

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 04:30 PM
I don't find them annoying. It's just simple math.

If we could miracle away all the guns in the world, nobody would ever be shot by one again. This is a true statement but it is pretty simplistic and doesn't actually say much. Removing guns does nothing about the types who would use them against another person.

Spats McGee
February 6, 2014, 05:40 PM
I find LOTS of the statements about numbers annoying. "You're 43x more likely . . . " or "There are X thousand people killed every year . . . "

I'm more concerned about WHO gets killed than HOW MANY people get killed, and making sure that neither I nor my loved ones become part of the How Many.

Clean97GTI
February 6, 2014, 05:45 PM
You could easily turn it around and ask them how many gang bangers would be left alive still plying their trade if guns were outlawed.

Spats McGee
February 6, 2014, 05:59 PM
You could easily turn it around and ask them how many gang bangers would be left alive still plying their trade if guns were outlawed.
Answer 1: I'm not concerned with keeping gang bangers alive. I'm concerned with protecting my family.
Answer 2: More of them than if guns are not outlawed. After all, gang bangers will have guns whether they're legal or not.

DonP
February 7, 2014, 01:36 PM
Any politician running for office that starts a sentence with ... "I've been a hunter, so you can trust me to support the 2nd amendment" is lying through his capped and whitened teeth.

pinehtr
February 7, 2014, 05:06 PM
My father in law is a NRA member and a hunter. He don't think anyone should have a
Modern sporting rifle. His words-I don't want a gun that looks like that. Drives me nuts.

goon
February 7, 2014, 08:28 PM
Defeatist speech from our own side...

"It's only a matter of time until they ban your XXXX. Hope is lost! The sky is falling! Dig my grave because the RKBA is finished!"

And I just saw this one (a little less dramatic than my interpretation) yesterday in a conversation here.

So you all better send me all your AR's and AK's... because they're just going to ban them anyhow. Probably toss in any Tavors out there too. Add the M-1 Carbines and Garands while you're at it just in case. Stop wasting your time fighting it... hope is lost.

P5 Guy
February 8, 2014, 02:42 PM
Do you really think you can take on the army ?
Well it is a darn bit harder to do with just pitchforks and clubs :what:

cammogunner
February 8, 2014, 09:28 PM
when people say you dont need an ar-15 to hunt.. but if that isint bad enough the people saying it are BUNNY HUGERS so i dont see why they preach to you about it

Tom609
February 8, 2014, 10:17 PM
For most comments made by antis, I've learned that responding with logic just doesn't work. I usually cut to the chase by saying, "let's face it, if you were really being honest you'd admit that what you'd really like to see are all guns banned." To which they usually will admit "you're probably right." I then tell them in a friendly and non-judgmental tone that all they have to do is get 2/3 of the states to vote to amend the Constitution and I end the conversation there. It's similar to a discussion on abortion. You will never get the other person to move off their position.

goon
February 9, 2014, 12:00 AM
when people say you dont need an ar-15 to hunt.. but if that isint bad enough the people saying it are BUNNY HUGERS so i dont see why they preach to you about it

Lots of hunters don't see why you need an AR when "you can't use it fer huntin' !" Not all hunters get that the Founders of this nation didn't waste valuable space in our nation's founding documents to ensure that they could go blast ducks and geese a few times a year.

When someone slings the "you don't need that because you can't hunt with it" argument at me, I respond with "who gives a damn about hunting?"
I'm generally seen in jeans, worn boots, flannel, and sporting several months worth of unruly beard. All that's missing is the copenhagen ring (I don't chew). Since I look the part, they're caught off guard when I hit them with that. Sometimes they walk off in a huff, sometimes they just stand there dumbfounded that I've attacked their "right" to go kill a turkey.
Either way, I kind of don't care. If they want gun owners to be divided, then by God, I'll go right ahead and divide myself from them.

Kaeto
February 9, 2014, 04:14 AM
My dad thinks AK and AR style rifles should be banned "because they attract the wrong kind of people". He also thinks all guns should be limited to 3 rounds total (even revolvers) because duck hunting shotguns are.

RetiredUSNChief
February 9, 2014, 07:03 AM
^^^^

Huh. But I'm not concerned about being attacked by ducks when I'm carrying concealed.

76shuvlinoff
February 9, 2014, 08:33 AM
"So I suppose you think you should be able to have nuclear weapon too."
I just look at em say "Of course."

But I am not sure that pisses me off as much as,
"What are you afraid of?"
Secretly what I am really afraid of is I can't walk away fast enough to avoid choking them.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
February 9, 2014, 09:33 AM
To me it has to be the " people shouldn't be allowed to own those guns, they are just built for killing".

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