Autodefensa in Mexico


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Deaf Smith
February 3, 2014, 05:19 PM
And this is why we have a 2nd Amendment here and they don't.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com

This is the REAL news from Mexico, not the ABC/NBC/CBS soda pop.

Yes the Mexican police and Army try to stop town folks from defending their own villages.

Deaf

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CoalTrain49
February 5, 2014, 03:24 PM
And why do you think they do that? It has to do with drug money. It happened right here in NY in the early 70's. Read the story about Frank Serpico. It will tell you all you need to know about a very large corrupt police dept. It's legal to own guns in Mexico, you just can't purchase them there and you can't arm yourself outside of your home, legally. The gun laws are much more restrictive but I think the real problem is a corrupt gov't and police force.

Ryanxia
February 7, 2014, 09:27 AM
We have the Second Amendment but some states it might as well not exist for all the legal requirements. We only have it as long as we exercise it and fight for it. Take new shooters to the range, support your local/state grassroots organizations and if you haven't already join the NRA today!

JSH1
February 7, 2014, 09:34 PM
Many members of the Mexican army and police are on drug cartel payrolls.

Shadmin
February 8, 2014, 09:03 PM
It's quite crazy down in Mexico in some areas like Juarez on the border South of El Paso! You definitely want to stay away from the border areas and other known areas like Tamaulipas or Sinaloa where the cartels are fighting each other for control of the 'plazas' (narco areas). Civilians are generally forbidden to own any guns of military caliber and there is only one place (near Mexico City, DF) where you can legally get a firearm in all of Mexico and it's an army base! Civilians are restricted to one handgun (.380, .38 or .22 calibers), any rifle under .30 caliber not convertible to full auto, any shotgun 12 gauge and under with barrel length of 25" or more. This after a very complicated process where you submit all manner of ID (BC, operators license, Military ID card (liberated if male under 40), proof of income, utility bills to establish residency, criminal background check showing no convictions, issued by the state's Attorney General where applicant resides (dated no older than six months), head of household must sign a letter authorizing firearms and ammunition in the home if person is not head of household, Copy of government-issued photo identification (Voter ID Card if Mexican citizen, passport and FM2 card if foreign citizen), If weapons are requested for shooting or hunting, must submit copy of hunting and/or shooting club membership card, indicating day, month and year of the beginning and end of validation, copy of the Unique Key of Population Registry (Clave Única de Registro de Población - CURP) Analogous to US social security card and number. Upon being granted the firearm acquisition permit, fill out form and make payment of MX$95.00 (US$7.60) for Permit to Purchase Firearm, Accessories and/or Ammunition, fill out form and make payment of MX$39.00 (US$3.12) for Registration of Firearm (one form and payment per gun), contact the Directorate of Commercialization of Arms and Munitions (DCAM) by internet or in person to make payment of firearm, with all receipts and documentation, along with photo ID, appear in person at DCAM to pick up firearm. A temporary transportation permit (valid for 24 to 72hrs) is granted, which permits the owner to transport the firearm from DCAM to his or her home by personal or public transportation (ground or air).
A tourist can get a permit to take a firearm into Mexico, but it's a long complicated process and costs money with NO guarantee that you will be granted that permit! I know of several frequent visitors to Mexico who carry w/o a permit, but it's a chance they take because they would rather risk a Mexican jail and at least have a fighting chance if someone tries to kidnap them or kill them! I won't say exactly what I did, but with a pretty Mexican fiancé and a nice car I wasn't going down without a fight as Americans are often targets for kidnapping, robbery or killing depending upon the situation? Women, especially pretty young women, are in even worse shape as they can be raped or forced into sexual slavery and killed if they refuse the advances of a cartel member or gangster!

JSH1
February 8, 2014, 11:00 PM
I just got back a business trip to Juarez two weeks ago. Things are looking at lot better there with the violence down remarkably since my first visit in 2011. They only had 750 murders last year, down from 3116 in 2010. People are going to restaurants and clubs at night again and I saw a lot of new construction.

Readyrod
February 9, 2014, 10:39 AM
Spent a winter in Mexico at a Mexican girlfriends place a long time ago. The crime thing was not for the faint of heart. Pretty much all of her friends and acquaintances carried guns as far as I can tell. Don't know if any of them had permits. You always had to be really aware to keep out of trouble. Pity cause it's a great place; pyramids, great beaches, jungle, good food, excellent beer, nice architecture........ I'd love to live there but the crime thing is too harsh.

redneck2
February 9, 2014, 11:41 AM
I know a guy from Mexico, lives here now. I told him our company trip was in Cabo San Lucas. Even he won't go back. He technically owns a ranch, but the cartel moves in and took over. He got out in time

He says they come into a town and request that you work for them. If you refuse, they drag your family out in the street and shoot them, then ask the next guy down the block. He never refuses.

Tony k
February 9, 2014, 12:19 PM
Don't even get me started....These cartels make me so sick. Butchering innocent people, blackmailing ordinarily honest people in to doing their dirty work for them. These types of bloodthirsty tyrannical despots are the reason we need the Second Amendment.

By the way, they are operating on US public lands with near impunity (trashing our land and water with pot cultivation all the way up in to Oregon, Idaho, and Washington), and their culture of corruption and graft has already sprouted up here as well.

I just seems to me that these cartels represent a greater threat to our nation than jihadists. I don't understand why we aren't doing more about them.

Don't even get me started...

hank327
February 9, 2014, 12:20 PM
In Latin America its called "Plata o Plomo", Silver or Lead. You accept their offer to work for them and you get paid. Refuse and you get the lead. I have relatives in Mexico and most all the men carry pistols going by "big boy rules".

JSH1
February 9, 2014, 12:38 PM
I just seems to me that these cartels represent a greater threat to our nation than jihadists. I don't understand why we aren't doing more about them.

What makes you thing we aren't doing anything about it? We are wasting billions of dollars every year fighting them here in the USA and training / equipping countries throughout Latin America. We are doing everything except the sensible thing, taking away their market.

Carl N. Brown
February 9, 2014, 01:29 PM
JSH1: Things are looking at lot better there with the violence down remarkably since my first visit in 2011. They only had 750 murders last year, down from 3116 in 2010.

When Calderon became President of Mexico in Dec 2006, he immediately militarized the Mexican Drug War sending troops into his home state to uproot the cartels in an operation that resulted in about 650 police, military and cartel members dead and it escalated from that to thousands of extra drug war deaths per year, mostly cartel members but an increasing minority of innocent civilian deaths too.

Then in 2009 Calderon appeared with Obama in a couple of Rose Garden press events and a joint session of Congress blaming the drug war deaths on US gun laws and calling for a re-instatement of the 1994-2004 US Assault Weapons Ban. Congress was not moved.

Obama appointed Dennis Burke (credited as architect of the AWB) to be US Attorney for Phoenix Sep 2009 and the defunct Operation Wide Receiver tactic of "gunwalking" (ended 7 Oct 2007 as a failure) was revived Nov 2009 as Operation Fast and Furious without the minimal controls of OWR (contact with the US ATF Mexico City Office, involvement of MX LEA, ATF contracts with cooperating FFLs, etc.). Even the increased recovery of US guns at MX crime scenes failed to move Congress to re-instate the AWB.

Then Calderon was voted out of office in Dec 2012 and the new MX Pres vowed to demilitarize the drug war and deploy gendarmerie civil police forces against the cartels. And you say murders in Mexico went from 3116 in 2010 to 750 last year? Without an Assualt Weapons Ban in the US? How is that possible? :rolleyes:

JSH1
February 9, 2014, 03:03 PM
I was talking about the murder rate in the Mexican city of Cuidad Juarez. That is the city where my company has a factory that I have visited 9 times since 2011. The Juarez murder rate peaked in 2010 at an official total of 3116. That is also when Juarez was making international news as "the most dangerous city in the world". I made a mistake in my post above. Juarez had 750 murders in 2012 not 2013. I can't find an official total for 2013 yet.

When I was in Juarez 2 weeks ago I asked one of the engineers I work with how the level of violence was and he said: "Very good, only 1-2 people are killed per day".

Double Naught Spy
February 9, 2014, 05:23 PM
Yeah, but keep in mind that murder isn't the only indicator of violence, but just one result. How often are violent attacks, cartel shootouts, robberies, muggings, etc.?

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=14380

JSH1
February 9, 2014, 07:14 PM
No doubt Cuidad Juarez is still a dangerous place. However, it is much safer than it was a few years ago. The people who I have talked to that live in Juarez are encouraged by the reduction in violence. Life is returning to normal and people are getting on with their lives.

The general consensus is that this reduction in violence has two sources. First the change in leadership at the national level. The new president has pulled the army and federal police out of Juarez. So you no longer have the army and cartels battling in the streets. The second is that the turf war between the Sinaloa cartel and the Juarez cartel is over with the Sinaloa cartel coming out on top. All in all it is getting better and that is good for the common man in Juarez.

As to US government warnings. I have traveled to many places that the US government has issued travel warnings advising US citizen against travel. If the US government used the same standard for US cities that they apply to foreign destinations they would be advising against travel to many large US cities. If one uses common sense they will be OK.

bubba in ca
February 9, 2014, 07:40 PM
The cartels had another friend for decades. The PRI government took their cut and let the cartels take over. And the US sending unarmed police there doesn`t seem real bright, either.

Ditto on travel in Mexico--I haven`t been there for a few years but I`d chance it over Los Angeles or Chicago.

DeathNinja
February 9, 2014, 08:13 PM
And why do you think they do that? It has to do with drug money. It happened right here in NY in the early 70's. Read the story about Frank Serpico. It will tell you all you need to know about a very large corrupt police dept. It's legal to own guns in Mexico, you just can't purchase them there and you can't arm yourself outside of your home, legally. The gun laws are much more restrictive but I think the real problem is a corrupt gov't and police force.


I couldn't help but notice that this went completely unchallenged, which is quite disappointing to say the least. The gun laws "are so restrictive precisely because they have so corrupt a government!" The same exact thing holds true here in the states, the most restrictive, intrusive states also deliver the most totalitarian, and corrupt forms of government.

CoalTrain49
February 9, 2014, 09:04 PM
I couldn't help but notice that this went completely unchallenged, which is quite disappointing to say the least. The gun laws "are so restrictive precisely because they have so corrupt a government!" The same exact thing holds true here in the states, the most restrictive, intrusive states also deliver the most totalitarian, and corrupt forms of government.

See post #7. That is my experience also. I've traveled in Sonora and Chihuahua. The populace is armed. I've seen people in civilian clothes with AR's. It's hard to tell who they are and what their mission is but they were not Federales or police. To be honest I didn't see any uniformed police anywhere in the interior. I'm thinking these were citizen patrols. I didn't ask. There are more guns in MX than the average gringo suspects.

You don't see armed citizen patrols here in the U.S.

powder
February 10, 2014, 08:29 AM
And this is why we have a 2nd Amendment here and they don't.

http://www.borderlandbeat.com

This is the REAL news from Mexico, not the ABC/NBC/CBS soda pop.

Yes the Mexican police and Army try to stop town folks from defending their own villages.

Deaf
I cannot really tell what you are getting at, as the point you are trying to make is...what?

2A has nothing to do with drug cartels having a turf war in Mexico.

Want to know where 2A fits in? Our same politicians here in the US who have a "NRA A++", are the same politicians with their States' Chamber of Commerce wanting to de-regulate illegal immigration.

Translation: cheap immigrant labor will do any legal/illegal work you ask them to do, and the Corporations need people at $4 an hour under the table.
Secondly, the new coyote (smugglers) currency is heroin; heroin comes from Afghan into Mexico airports, and the illegals are the mules, bringing it into your communities. Do you live in an "immigrant safe-haven" county? If you do, I'd bet my next check your heroin OD fatality rate is higher than the surrounding counties that won't stand for this tax-soaking crap anymore...your communities 2 biggest imports, illegals and their heroin, is killing your people.

Robert
February 10, 2014, 08:45 AM
None of this has anything to do with the mission of THR. Immigration, cartels and crime rates in foreign countries are not on topic for THR.

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