New engraved Piettas at Cabela's


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CraigC
February 5, 2014, 10:40 AM
I try to keep up with what Cabela's offers in blackpowder pistols and found these this morning. Three new laser engraved offerings. One is a stainless 1858, then there's a standard blued 1860 but most interestingly is a blued 1851 Navy London model. It's all steel without the "Pietta tail" but in .44cal. It'll never be real hand-cut engraving but for the price, it's pretty nice stuff. I really like the three I already have.

Individual links are too long:
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse.cmd?N=1100199&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580

http://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsiii/large/IMG_2478b.jpg

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72coupe
February 5, 2014, 10:45 AM
Those are very pretty. I was thinking of learning engraving but I guess if they can do it with a laser there is not much point.

swathdiver
February 5, 2014, 09:47 PM
We have one of those sheriff models, fun and accurate to shoot but painful to load. Great looking guns IMHO!

RPRNY
February 5, 2014, 09:55 PM
The gold an nickel ones look like something one might find in a whore' s handbag or at a Turkish bazaar. But the blued 1858 44 cal looks nice in the web photos.

Willie Sutton
February 5, 2014, 11:05 PM
And they still can't manage to remove the Pietta Grafitti from the thing...


Willie

.

BowerR64
February 5, 2014, 11:18 PM
The gold an nickel ones look like something one might find in a whore' s handbag or at a Turkish bazaar. But the blued 1858 44 cal looks nice in the web photos.
Those are WAY to shiny for me.

Im not a gold, diamond or chrome kinda guy. Nickle, stainless is ok because they are a little more subtle. Black and wood is good enough for me.

And they still can't manage to remove the Pietta Grafitti from the thing...


Willie

.

I agree, why not on the bottom of the barrel where you can cover it with the ramrod? why ruin the whole look of the gun by putting a huge banner on the side of the gun? Least they dont fill in the lettering with white paint or something like that.

CraigC
February 6, 2014, 12:05 AM
The gold an nickel ones look like something one might find in a whore' s handbag or at a Turkish bazaar.
And some folks' mothers didn't teach them very good manners. I lovingly refer to those gifts from my wife as Pimp Specials but that was over the line and uncalled-for.


I agree, why not on the bottom of the barrel where you can cover it with the ramrod? why ruin the whole look of the gun by putting a huge banner on the side of the gun?
Yes, because we all know that no other manufacturer puts their name on the barrel of their guns. :rolleyes:

Folks can be awfully picky about a $250 revolver. If that's the only thing that keeps you from buying such a great sixgun at a very affordable price, I truly pity you.

elhombreconnonombre
February 6, 2014, 12:28 AM
Sweet six guns ya got there. I may have to take a second look at .44 cal '51s. I really like the way the engraving breaks up the step in the frame and makes it look like its not there.

mrdeltoid
February 6, 2014, 12:45 AM
Those are SWEET! I love my brass 1851 Navy.

Mictlanero
February 6, 2014, 01:56 AM
Nice ones! I especially like that engraved 1860 and engraved black 1858!

BowerR64
February 6, 2014, 03:59 AM
And some folks' mothers didn't teach them very good manners. I lovingly refer to those gifts from my wife as Pimp Specials but that was over the line and uncalled-for.



Yes, because we all know that no other manufacturer puts their name on the barrel of their guns. :rolleyes:

Folks can be awfully picky about a $250 revolver. If that's the only thing that keeps you from buying such a great sixgun at a very affordable price, I truly pity you.
It doesnt keep me from buying an affordable gun but dont you think its silly to put the time into making a gun look pretty with lazer etching and then stamp all kinds of junk on the side? i sure do.

The .44 cal on the side isnt even correct. It uses a .451-454 round ball so how is that a .44?

Are those $250.? i thought the specially etched ones were more like $300. $400.

ivankerley
February 6, 2014, 05:14 AM
The .44 cal on the side isnt even correct. It uses a .451-454 round ball so how is that a .44?

a cap and ball revolver uses an oversize ball so you get a tight seal, it shaves a ring, versus a regular smokepole that would use a roundball and a patch to get a tight seal, etc., least thats my basic understanding, im sure there might be another reason also

It doesnt keep me from buying an affordable gun but dont you think its silly to put the time into making a gun look pretty with lazer etching and then stamp all kinds of junk on the side? i sure do.

its their company's info/rollmark, regardless of whether you care for it or it makes sense to you or whomever, they go with it. If'n you dont like it then move on. Fairly easy and with so many guns out there theres likely something for everybody.
Gene

Crawdad1
February 6, 2014, 06:43 AM
Craig, are those aftermarket grips on those Navys? The reason I ask is they have a screw through them and are not one piece like on other Colts.

I'd have a nice glass case to display them. :)

Something like this:

http://classic.gunauction.com/buy/12632596/black-powder/black-powder-handguns/clear-top-glass-walnut-stained-pistol-case

BowerR64
February 6, 2014, 07:30 AM
a cap and ball revolver uses an oversize ball so you get a tight seal, it shaves a ring, versus a regular smokepole that would use a roundball and a patch to get a tight seal, etc., least thats my basic understanding, im sure there might be another reason also



its their company's info/rollmark, regardless of whether you care for it or it makes sense to you or whomever, they go with it. If'n you dont like it then move on. Fairly easy and with so many guns out there theres likely something for everybody.
Gene
Well i guess so

toolslinger
February 6, 2014, 10:00 AM
Hey CraigC are those nickeled guns brass frames under the plating?

CraigC
February 6, 2014, 10:41 AM
Craig, are those aftermarket grips on those Navys?
No, those are all factory. The "ivory" is just white plastic, probably not worth the effort to do a one-piece.


Hey CraigC are those nickeled guns brass frames under the plating?
I suspect they are brass grip frames but the receivers are steel.


The .44 cal on the side isnt even correct. It uses a .451-454 round ball so how is that a .44?
They have ALWAYS been referred to as .44's. We haven't always used the method we do now to determine a firearm's caliber.


...dont you think its silly to put the time into making a gun look pretty with lazer etching and then stamp all kinds of junk on the side?
I don't call their name and address on one side and "Black Powder Only" on the other "all kinds of junk". Ruger's barrel warning is offensive to me. Pietta's stamping is not. You think Colt's had nothing stamped on them?

Why would they do anything different on the "engraved" guns? They're just the basic guns with an extra step. Why would they stamp the others and not them?

45 Dragoon
February 6, 2014, 10:52 AM
I think she done GOOD CraigC !! (wish mine treated me that way !!;) )

Modernhoglegs
February 6, 2014, 08:10 PM
I've had my eye on the "Marhsall" version for some time.
Figure a pair would make a decent carry option if push came to shove.

I have a 5.5" 1858 New Army replica that rides quite nicely in the same Uncle Mike's #5 Sidekick shoulder holster I use for my Ruger Super Black Hawk.

A single action is not my preferred carry pistol, but it beats not having a gun if you need one.

sigsmoker
February 6, 2014, 08:42 PM
I had the very same 1851 "Marshall" bottom one and something broke in it. I called Cabela's even though it was shot and purchased maybe even a year earlier. They asked me to ship it to them and I got another sent to me brand new! No problems. I love Cabela's. I sold it NIB on the gun auction site and the guy who bought it got a great deal. It was fun to shoot and look at. I don't think it looked bad at all. The prices back then were half what they are now.

savit260
February 6, 2014, 08:45 PM
The .44 cal on the side isnt even correct. It uses a .451-454 round ball so how is that a .44?
]

In the days before cartridges, calibers were normally measured across the lands, not the grooves.

This is a carry over from before guns had rifling from the reading I've done on the subject.

Colt and Remington both called the Army calibers 44 .

I'm sure you know that a modern 44 special/magnum isn't a 44 either , correct?

BowerR64
February 6, 2014, 10:46 PM
In the days before cartridges, calibers were normally measured across the lands, not the grooves.

This is a carry over from before guns had rifling from the reading I've done on the subject.

Colt and Remington both called the Army calibers 44 .

I'm sure you know that a modern 44 special/magnum isn't a 44 either , correct?
So wich is correct? the .44 on the pietta or the .44 on the Ruger super blackhawk?

The bullets reloaded for use in the super black hawk fall right out of both the barrel and the chambers on the pietta. I think the pietta is closer to a .45 then it is a .44

CraigC
February 6, 2014, 11:18 PM
So wich is correct? the .44 on the pietta or the .44 on the Ruger super blackhawk?
Both are correct. As stated, .44 percussion guns were so-called because of the way the bores were measured.

The .44S&W American was closer to a true .44 with an outside lubed, heeled bullet. In the early 1870's, S&W was after a Russian military contract and the Russians wanted an inside lubed bullet. S&W simply reduced the diameter of the bullet and seated it down inside the case and thus, the .44 Russian was born. They continued to call it a .44, even though the bullets used actually measured .43". In 1907, the Russian was lengthened and the rim reduced and out came the .44S&W Special. Of course in 1956 the case was lengthened again and called the .44Magnum. Which still uses .429-.430" bullets.

BowerR64
February 7, 2014, 04:46 AM
I still think they could put it on the bottom or use a different font and lazer etch it or something to make it look more pretty i mean isnt that what we like about these guns the whole look and style of the cowboy gun mystique.

I guess it could be worse, it could say MADE IN 2014 BY PIETTA WWW.PIETTA.COM (http://www.pietta.us/products/)

Old Iron
February 7, 2014, 06:36 AM
Not counting Pietta's latest laser engraved nickle plated 1858 NMA's with gold plated cylinders, did Remington ever offer their original NMA's with such elaborate furnishings back in the 1860's and 1870's? Or, are these latest offerings just another one of Pietta's "fantasy ideas", like the brass framed 1858 NMA's?

Crawdad1
February 7, 2014, 08:36 AM
Great link Bower, I didn't realize Pietta made so many variants and custom specials.

savit260
February 7, 2014, 09:44 AM
I still think they could put it on the bottom or use a different font and lazer etch it or something to make it look more pretty i mean isnt that what we like about these guns the whole look and style of the cowboy gun mystique.

I guess it could be worse, it could say MADE IN 2014 BY PIETTA WWW.PIETTA.COM

Colt's and Remmingtons (as well as most other guns in general) have all kinds of writing stamped on their barrels.

If it bothers you that much, you can buy a Uberti (with nothing but a couple of proof marks visible on the barrel) , have a Pietta defarbed, or pay some gunsmith to build you a mark free barrel from scratch. It's not like you don't have options.

So wich is correct? the .44 on the pietta or the .44 on the Ruger super blackhawk?

The bullets reloaded for use in the super black hawk fall right out of both the barrel and the chambers on the pietta. I think the pietta is closer to a .45 then it is a .44
As CraigC said... both are correct..


If you extrapolate this info backwards, you'll also see why a 38 Special is a bit shy of being a 36 caliber in reality.

If you follow it far enough back you'll see the origins are from the 36 Colt cap and ball guns, which used a 38 caliber ball (36 caliber at the lands, 38 at the grooves-->38 heel base outside lubed Short Colt in the cartridge conversions,-->case lengthened, a .357 -.358 inside lubed 38 Long Colt,--> case lengthened and power increased in the 38 Special, --> lengthened again for the .357 Magnum.

When the cartridge conversions came along in the 44's they briefly used a heel based 44 cartridge (which were 45 cal to fit the 44 Cap & Ball rifling).. This cartridge was a bit of a historical dead end (although it's similar to the modern 44 Special, shorter with a different size rim, just not directly related to it).. When the 45 Colt came out , it used basicly the same bore size as the 44 percussioin Colts, albeit with larger cartridge dimensions than the 44 Colt center fire.

As CraigC described... the modern 44's origins come from the 44 S&W American.

BowerR64
February 8, 2014, 12:36 AM
Thanks for the info i never knew any of that. It confused me though

I started shooting a few months before i joined this forum you can tell im still really green.

Willie Sutton
February 8, 2014, 09:56 AM
"You think Colt's had nothing stamped on them?"

Sure: Address Saml Colt, New York. On the top of the barrel. That's not offensive.

"Made in Italy" and "Black Powder Only" on the side of the barrel is offensive. Really, it just takes away from the "fantasy of originality" to coin a phrase. In addition to shooting these I like to display them. It's hard to have an aesthetically pleasing display of a boxed revolver with that MADE IN ITALY starin' at ya...

It would be SO easy to emulate Uberti and put it on the bottom of the barel under the loading lever....




"If it bothers you that much, you can buy a Uberti"


It does, and I did. I probably have $5000 worth of Uberti's and one lonely Pietta bought used just because it had a .45 ACP conversion cylinder for just this exact reason.

You would think Pietta would want some of that money. Oh well.... their loss.


Willie

.

Old Iron
February 8, 2014, 03:04 PM
I agree Willie,..... I've got 2 Pietta's now, I defarbed one of them and I'm seriously thinking about doing it to the other one.

My next purchase will be a Uberti, simply because they try to make their replicas look a little more like the originals. Pietta could easily do the same if they wanted to, and save guys like me the extra work.

BowerR64
February 8, 2014, 08:07 PM
Great link Bower, I didn't realize Pietta made so many variants and custom specials.
There are alot it seems we only get a few of them here. Cabelas seems to be getting the hint though and bringing in a few more of the different flavors.

I still want an 1851 civillian, i almost got one last month but when i went up there they sold the last one a few hours before i got there.

Guy had one at the last gun show here and the same thing happened he had one but he sold it just before i got there.

CraigC
February 9, 2014, 12:04 PM
I guess I just don't get what the big deal is about the markings. The Uberti's and Pietta's I have all have proof marks on the barrels and frames. Uberti's don't have their name and address but under the lever so they have fewer markings than Colt's. Colt's have patent dates on the frame and the replicas do not. Colt's have a barrel address. Pietta's have a barrel address and "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" on the barrel. So the Pietta guns don't have any more markings than the Colt's. I reckon folks just don't like what they say. I still don't understand why someone would hold it against a percussion replica that can cost as little as $200. They don't have authentic finishes or real case colors either, why not hold that against them too?

So the way I look at it, if it matters that much, you can buy a Colt for $500-$800 and have a decent revolver with all the right markings. Or you can buy a $200-$250 replica, have it tuned, defarbed and refinished with authentic finishes and have a better revolver with a more authentic finish for only a little more than a factory 2nd or 3rd generation Colt.


PS, the 5˝" Pietta has the "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" under the lever and no barrel address.

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigC
I guess I just don't get what the big deal is about the markings. I reckon folks just don't like what they say. They don't have authentic finishes or real case colors either, why not hold that against them too?

PS, the 5˝" Pietta has the "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" under the lever and no barrel address.

Yep,... that's pretty much it.
...., and as far as the non-authentic finish and case colors, given "time and use", both will wear off replicas, same as with the originals.
However, the silly "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamp will never wear off.

PS,... Where and when did you find a Pietta 5 1/2" with the "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamp under the lever, and no barrel address????????
The one I bought at Cabela's last fall, has the goofy "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamp on the left side of the barrel, and Pietta's address on the right side of the barrel.

Crawdad1
February 9, 2014, 01:08 PM
Craig, bottom line is you have some beautiful revolvers in you collection and a great wife!!! :)

All mine says is, "But its so stinky" :rolleyes:

CraigC
February 9, 2014, 03:26 PM
...., and as far as the non-authentic finish and case colors, given "time and use", both will wear off replicas, same as with the originals.
That's not what I meant. The case colors are fake and they didn't use hot salt blue in the 1850's. The originals were charcoal blued (not what the Italians are currently marketing as charcoal blue) and the difference in appearance is obvious. Point being, there are plenty of things that are different from the originals. If we're going to hold one thing against them, we might as well discuss the rest. They're not made out of wrought iron either. I guess I'd rather admire and enjoy them for what they are, rather than bellyache about what they're not.

The Pietta name will never wear into "COLT" either.


Where and when did you find a Pietta 5 1/2" with the "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamp under the lever, and no barrel address?
The 5˝" pictured in the original post and two months ago from Cabela's. "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" is on the bottom. Although I was wrong about the barrel address, it's on the top.


Craig, bottom line is you have some beautiful revolvers in you collection and a great wife!!!
Thank you, I am very fortunate. :)

Now she has three more blackpowder revolvers to get for me. :D

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 05:48 PM
That's not what I meant. The case colors are fake and they didn't use hot salt blue in the 1850's. The originals were charcoal blued (not what the Italians are currently marketing as charcoal blue) and the difference in appearance is obvious. Point being, there are plenty of things that are different from the originals. If we're going to hold one thing against them, we might as well discuss the rest.
I think the point is,... the difference in price between a Pietta and the Colts, ALLOWS for the cheaper finish and fake color casing on $200.00 replicas.
However, placing goofy stamps, such as BLACKPOWDER ONLY and proof marks in BLATANT locations on replica revolvers, strays from an honest effort to "replicate" the fine firearms from our past.
Uberti recognizes that, thus they do what they can to hide such eyesores,... and because of that, my next purchase WILL be a Uberti.

If Pietta's stamps don't bother you, that's fine,.... but I consider my differing opinion just as prevalent as your's.

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 06:03 PM
The 5˝" pictured in the original post and two months ago from Cabela's. "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" is on the bottom. Although I was wrong about the barrel address, it's on the top.
I do consider the placing of Pietta's address on top of the barrel, which is the traditional "location" for such things, to be an improvement by Pietta,.... and if they've relocated the BLACKPOWDER ONLY stamp (out of casual sight) to the bottom of the barrel on all their offerings, I'm impressed.

CraigC
February 9, 2014, 06:07 PM
My point is that we have to overlook other discrepancies already.

Same reason Ruger has put that warning label on their guns since 1978, liability. People do stupid things. People blow up blackpowder guns with smokeless powder all the time. If we didn't have quite so many stupid people in this world and quite so many lawyers ready to help them, we wouldn't have things like blackpowder guns stamped with "BLACK POWDER ONLY".


I do consider the placing of Pietta's address on top of the barrel, which is the traditional "location" for such things, to be an improvement by Pietta,.... and if they've relocated the BLACKPOWDER ONLY stamp (out of casual sight) to the bottom of the barrel on all their offerings, I'm impressed.
Doesn't appear to be across the board. Other new Pietta's have the same barrel address on the right side and warning on the left.

For the record, I do agree that it would be much better if the warning was on the bottom. I just don't agree that it's a good reason not to buy them. For that matter, I'd rather pay a few extra hundred bucks more for no proof marks, real color case hardening and charcoal blue. ;)

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 06:43 PM
Same reason Ruger has put that warning label on their guns since 1978, liability. People do stupid things. People blow up blackpowder guns with smokeless powder all the time. If we didn't have quite so many stupid people in this world and quite so many lawyers ready to help them, we wouldn't have things like blackpowder guns stamped with "BLACK POWDER ONLY".
Are you overlooking the fact that Ruger's Old Army, was never meant to be a "replica" of a historical revolver of the 1800's??

I understand the "liability" reasoning behind the BLACK POWDER ONLY stamps,... but I haven't heard of Uberti pistol owners blowing themselves up because their "stamp" is located under the barrel instead of on the side.

For the record, I do agree that it would be much better if the warning was on the bottom. I just don't agree that it's a good reason not to buy them. For that matter, I'd rather pay a few extra hundred bucks more for no proof marks, real color case hardening and charcoal blue.

The thing is,... Pietta could just as easily "relocate" their BLACK POWDER ONLY stamp to the bottom of the barrel and their address on top the barrel, on all their models and it wouldn't cost ANYBODY anything.

To be honest,... I actually don't/didn't have any complaints at all, with the "finish" on my two late Pietta's, just the obnoxious "location" of their stamps. ;)

CraigC
February 9, 2014, 07:39 PM
Are you overlooking the fact that Ruger's Old Army, was never meant to be a "replica" of a historical revolver of the 1800's??
No, are you saying that you wouldn't have a problem with the stamp if it were not a replica? I find that odd and hard to believe.

I was referring to virtually every Ruger handgun in production since 1978. Has nothing to do with it being a historic replica or not and everything to do with an ugly billboard warning label on the side of the barrel. IMHO, much uglier than Pietta's warning about using blackpowder.

Took them 40yrs to move it to the bottom of the barrel but it's still ugly.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-LipseysMKIII/DSC01718.jpg

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 08:23 PM
No, are you saying that you wouldn't have a problem with the stamp if it were not a replica? I find that odd and hard to believe.
I have no problem with non-replicas looking however they want.

rep·li·ca
/ˈrɛplɪkə/ Show Spelled [rep-li-kuh] Show IPA
noun
1.
a copy or reproduction of a work of art produced by the maker of the original or under his or her supervision.
2.
any close or exact copy or reproduction.
Origin:
1815–25; < Italian: reply, repetition, derivative of replicare to repeat < Late Latin replicāre to reply

Synonyms
2. duplicate, facsimile; imitation.

CraigC
February 9, 2014, 08:31 PM
Yes, thanks for the sarcastic English lesson. So let's get this straight, "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamped on an 1851 replica is offensive but "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamped on a Ruger Old Army is not and only because it's not a replica??? If it were a replica, then it would be offensive.

Got it......I think. :scrutiny:

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 08:43 PM
Yes, thanks for the sarcastic English lesson. So let's get this straight, "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamped on an 1851 replica is offensive but "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamped on a Ruger Old Army is not and only because it's not a replica??? If it were a replica, then it would be offensive.

Got it......I think.
In no way was I trying to be sarcastic,.... however, the remainder of your reply is correct, as difficult as that seems to be for you to believe.

savit260
February 9, 2014, 09:19 PM
So let's get this straight, "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamped on an 1851 replica is offensive but "BLACKPOWDER ONLY" stamped on a Ruger Old Army is not and only because it's not a replica??? If it were a replica, then it would be offensive.


So Old Iron.... if the Italians came out with a Ruger Old Army replica, and it didn't say "black powder only" and didn't have the silly warning on it about reading the instruction manual , would that bother you? :evil:

Just some food for thought.


My opinion is, if you want a more realistic replica, you can buy a 2nd gen Colt... but you still won't get the charcoal bluing. At the Pietta price point, I'm not complaining.

CraigC
February 9, 2014, 09:22 PM
If it didn't have the barrel warning, it wouldn't be a proper replica. :neener:

savit260
February 9, 2014, 09:27 PM
IMO "Black Powder Only" is far less offensive than the Ruger billboard.

Of course that's not limited to Rugers either. S&W auto loaders, Beratta and I'm sure others have goofy looking warnings on their guns as well.

Old Iron
February 9, 2014, 10:03 PM
IMO "Black Powder Only" is far less offensive than the Ruger billboard.
Ruger's "billboard" doesn't bother me in the least. :)

....., and as for your earlier question pertaining to a hypothetical Italian made replica of Ruger's Old army "without the billboard",.....

I agree with CraigC's reply! :)

BowerR64
February 9, 2014, 10:49 PM
The top and the bottom would be fine for me. I like to look at mine from the sides maybe in a display case?

Jaymo
February 10, 2014, 12:10 AM
Well, cuz. Those are some purty pistols.
For a few reasons, I'd better not buy anything at the present time.

jaxenro
February 10, 2014, 10:29 AM
Old Iron, heres a original factory engraved Remmie with ivory

I know I have seen pics of one with factory silver and gold plate - silver frame gold cylinder - but don't have them handy

http://percussionrevolvers.com/index.php?topic=146.0

Old Iron
February 10, 2014, 10:51 AM
Thanks for the pictures jaxenro,.... looking at that engraved Remington makes my heart skip a beat. :)
I take it, it was originally blued instead of being "plated"????

I think it's an excellent example of how a pistol can be beautiful without being gawdy.

MCgunner
February 10, 2014, 11:54 AM
It doesnt keep me from buying an affordable gun but dont you think its silly to put the time into making a gun look pretty with lazer etching and then stamp all kinds of junk on the side? i sure do.

It's all opinion. I had my .45 Colt Blackhawk engraved and it's got the customary Ruger billboard on the barrel. I didn't pay the extra $150 he wanted to do the barrel, figured was no point and I might wanna replace the barrel someday, but it shoots so good THAT ain't happening just to remove some warnings. :rolleyes:

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